Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
> > Maybe we are targetting the "wrong" OS ;-( > Nope, I like my mac os install, and engineering colleges are seeing a large uptick in mac usage in colleges. It is a perk to have a computer that can OS X, Linux, and Windows. > Maybe the unofficial windows ports are more important than we think ;-) It is important to have easy to install packages. I find installing source packages trivial, but I am not the average user. My colleges that want an install for OSX dislike need to install xcode, mac ports and compiling the whole deal. One of these days I will study how Inkscape makes their OS X package and make one for gschem and pcb. > > I will look into these statistics this evening, to have an informed opinion. We can't have that ;-P only uninformed conjecture! Steve ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Hi Peter, > -Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Peter Clifton > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 2:35 AM > To: k...@lilalaser.de; gEDA user mailing list > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage > > On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > Peter Clifton wrote: > > > Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing > > 150.000 > > Look at the source downloads for the latest release though: > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/pcb/pcb-20100929/pc > b-20100929.tar.gz/stats/os > > Only 50% Linux downloads, >25% Windows again. > > -- > Peter Clifton > > Electrical Engineering Division, > Engineering Department, > University of Cambridge, > 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, > Cambridge > CB3 0FA > > Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) > Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) > > Maybe we are targetting the "wrong" OS ;-( Maybe the unofficial windows ports are more important than we think ;-) I will look into these statistics this evening, to have an informed opinion. Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:47 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > What web engine that drives the pcb pages? Is it some kind of CMS or > simply hand written HTML? Web-sources are here: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=pcbhtdocs.git;a=tree The short answer is html + "make" See: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=pcbhtdocs.git;a=blob;f=Makefile -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: > At some point I'd love to see the PCB pages revamped wholesale to > improve their impact and visual appeal. Whatever ends up being done, > I'd like the whole gpleda.org site to look consistent. Me too! Like I mentioned before, dokuwiki can easily do a lot better than what the geda wiki currently looks like. With dokuwiki rendered style is almost completely orthogonal to content and managed by cascaded style sheets. Given admin privileges you can have many of the navigation and eye candy goodies modern web design likes to present. What web engine that drives the pcb pages? Is it some kind of CMS or simply hand written HTML? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Peter Clifton wrote: > Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 Look at the source downloads for the latest release though: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/pcb/pcb-20100929/pcb-20100929.tar.gz/stats/os Only 50% Linux downloads, >25% Windows again. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > By the way, the download statistics is interesting: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/stats/timeline?dates=2002-01-03+to+2011-01-10 > > Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 To me, the interesting statistic is more: TOP OS * Windows 79% of downloaders https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files//stats/os?dates=2003-02-11%20to%202011-01-10 I wonder how many of those downloaders actually use it. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: >> Here is another find: >> The link page of pcb at gpleda.org still contains now obsolete links to >> sourceforge: second point at http://pcb.gpleda.org/links.html > > I removed the text about going there for bugs, but left the link for > now. > The project description in sourceforge should be supplemented with a note that the project has moved to gpleda.org. The last "news" item on sourceforge is from 2006. To the uninformed layman this might smell like a dead project. By the way, the download statistics is interesting: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/stats/timeline?dates=2002-01-03+to+2011-01-10 Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Gareth Edwards wrote: >> But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence >> of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. >> > > It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. Your argument against a comprehensive bug management page in the wiki was the wish to separate bug reporting people from those, who do the triage. This implies to me, that ordinary users should be discouraged from doing the triage. And the triage policy should be out of their eyes. Note, triage by users not part of the bug team can only affect the status. They will not be able to increase, or decrease the importance. I see no much harm they can do, but a potential for good input. Their "confirmation" flags and "affects-me" will make it easier for developers to spot the most burning issues. The average user who reports a bug must also triage a bug. The less users do the triage thing, the more of this job will stay with the developers. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 9 January 2011 19:07, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > > But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence > of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. > It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. /GDE ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 20:07 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Peter Clifton wrote: > > >> For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or > >> pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. > >> I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made > >> inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) > > > > No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is > > not configurable. > > Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status > inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status > edit war is creeping up... I don't "think" it is possible to restrict access to statuses. A couple are reserved for geda-bugs team only, such as "Triaged" and "WontFix". If anyone starts an edit fight, we need to tell them to stop. If that doesn't suffice - we'll have to refer it to the Launchpad admins to investigate and possibly warn the user. Here is the rationale from: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/of-bugs-and-statuses "Access Restrictions For the most part, Launchpad is liberal as to who can set bugs to a status; we would rather allow people to help garden the bug statuses than force them to ask permission to do so. There are two statuses, however, which are restricted to the project’s bug contacts and registrant: Won’t Fix, and Triaged. * Won’t Fix is restricted for a very specific reason: it is intended to represent an official denial, and therefore should really only be pronounced by a member of the project. * Triaged is restricted because it intends to capture confirmation by an accredited QA person who has verified that enough information has now been gathered about the issue that it can go straight into a developer’s work queue. " [snip] > fair enough. But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence > of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. No - it will help them to understand what status their bug has been given, and is thus useful, even if they don't participate in triage themselves. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sunday 09 January 2011 19:07:37 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Peter Clifton wrote: > >> For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or > >> pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. > >> I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made > >> inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) > > > > No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is > > not configurable. > > Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status > inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status > edit war is creeping up... If a status edit war occurs, bug status to be set to "Opinion"? ;-) Peter -- Peter Brett Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: >> For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or >> pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. >> I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made >> inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) > > No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is > not configurable. Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status edit war is creeping up... > Actually, and perhaps perversely, I think adding the barrier to team > membership may be a psychological encouragement to participate actively. > > In order to join the team, the person joining has been acknowledged and > given an implicit degree of approval from the administrators of the > project. When I have been in this position for other projects. (E.g > membership of the Ubuntu-X swat team), it gave me both a positive > feeling, and also reassured me that it was ok to make those changes > membership unlocked. fair enough. But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 19:46 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Here is another find: > The link page of pcb at gpleda.org still contains now obsolete links to > sourceforge: second point at http://pcb.gpleda.org/links.html I removed the text about going there for bugs, but left the link for now. > In addition, the menu of the main page of pcb at gpleda contains an > entry "Sourceforge" with the sub entry "Project Page", both of which > link to the same source page. IMHO these are obsolete. The second link is really just manual line-wrapping of the first. I added a link to the Launchpad project page for PCB, and removed the forced line-wrap on both. Better? At some point I'd love to see the PCB pages revamped wholesale to improve their impact and visual appeal. Whatever ends up being done, I'd like the whole gpleda.org site to look consistent. > ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 19:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Gareth Edwards wrote: > > > Bug reporting could > > be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of > > people. > > For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or > pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. > I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made > inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is not configurable. If we wanted access more open, we _could_ make the bug team open without any confirmation by an administrator, but I'm not inclined to do that. > However, geda/pcb as a project is not exactly overrun by potential > contributers and bug reporters. There is no need to add more barriers. > To the contrary, users need to be encouraged to participate. Triage is > itself is not very release critical. Worst case that might happen is a > severe bug that gets rated below par. But if it is really severe, it > will surface again. Actually, and perhaps perversely, I think adding the barrier to team membership may be a psychological encouragement to participate actively. In order to join the team, the person joining has been acknowledged and given an implicit degree of approval from the administrators of the project. When I have been in this position for other projects. (E.g membership of the Ubuntu-X swat team), it gave me both a positive feeling, and also reassured me that it was ok to make those changes membership unlocked. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: > Fixed. Thanks. > The SF bugs get imported with an alias, so "sf-1800913" might > have found it. Ok, next time I'll try to search with sf-prefix. Here is another find: The link page of pcb at gpleda.org still contains now obsolete links to sourceforge: second point at http://pcb.gpleda.org/links.html In addition, the menu of the main page of pcb at gpleda contains an entry "Sourceforge" with the sub entry "Project Page", both of which link to the same source page. IMHO these are obsolete. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Accessing the repository using anonymous CVS
Peter TB Brett wrote: > As I understand it, the CVS mirror has now been permanently shut > down. ok, I removed the section. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Gareth Edwards wrote: > Bug reporting could > be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of > people. For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) However, geda/pcb as a project is not exactly overrun by potential contributers and bug reporters. There is no need to add more barriers. To the contrary, users need to be encouraged to participate. Triage is itself is not very release critical. Worst case that might happen is a severe bug that gets rated below par. But if it is really severe, it will surface again. If a user has successfully followed the bug report page of geda and has not seen triage mentioned, he or she may still be tempted to change the status flags of this and other bugs -- Simply because there are edit buttons on the status. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Accessing the repository using anonymous CVS
On Sunday 09 January 2011 17:51:48 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > There used to be a CVS mirror of the git repo. The wiki still points > to it but notes, it is currently offline: > http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scm?&#committing_patches_from_other_contribu > tors > > Is this access supposed to be working anytime soon? As I understand it, the CVS mirror has now been permanently shut down. Peter -- Peter Brett Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Accessing the repository using anonymous CVS
There used to be a CVS mirror of the git repo. The wiki still points to it but notes, it is currently offline: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scm?&#committing_patches_from_other_contributors Is this access supposed to be working anytime soon? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 04:16 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Here is another find: > http://geda.seul.org/wiki/gschem-projects > On the bottom of the page is a link to sourceforge that is supposed to > offer some work done for an interactive sub sheet generator. However, > the link is dead. I couldn't locate a corresponding report on > launchpad, either. Just typed in the bug number (1800913) in launchpads > search facility. Fixed. The SF bugs get imported with an alias, so "sf-1800913" might have found it. The bug is: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bug/698670 Aka: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bug/sf-1800913 Or shorter.. since you don't have to explicitly specify the project: https://launchpad.net/bugs/698670 https://launchpad.net/bugs/sf-1800913 > ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Browsing the source code...
- Original message - > I just noticed on the gEDA Launchpad page > (https://code.launchpad.net/geda) that it says: > > You can browse the source code for the development focus branch or get > a copy of the branch using the command: > bzr branch lp:geda > > Shouldn't that be > git clone git://git.gpleda.org/gaf.git Yes, it should. For some reson that I can't remember off the top of my head, we've got a bzr branch on Launchpad (Launchpad only supports bzr) which tracks the master branch of gaf.git. Unfortunately we don't have any control over the text which appears on that page. :-( Peter -- Peter Brett Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Browsing the source code...
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 08:54 -0500, Patrick Doyle wrote: > I just noticed on the gEDA Launchpad page > (https://code.launchpad.net/geda) that it says: > > You can browse the source code for the development focus branch or get > a copy of the branch using the command: >bzr branch lp:geda That is a branch which tracks our git repository. We could turn it off, but it will be handy, as it "should" allow us to track translation changes in the code-base as they happen in Launchpad translations. (If / when we start using that for PCB). > Shouldn't that be > git clone git://git.gpleda.org/gaf.git You are correct, certainly for developers - but the developers know this ;). If someone does get the code from bzr, it doesn't hurt too much, just an extra layer of indirection. I would add a note to the page stating to get the code from git... only that doesn't seem to be possible. LP doesn't support git natively, Canonical use, develop, love, and generally adore bzr, and I got the feeling native git support for Launchpad was not only not on their TODO list.. but that they would probably not want it even if someone wrote the "patch". (Patch being a euphemism for quite a lot of code). -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Browsing the source code...
I just noticed on the gEDA Launchpad page (https://code.launchpad.net/geda) that it says: You can browse the source code for the development focus branch or get a copy of the branch using the command: bzr branch lp:geda Shouldn't that be git clone git://git.gpleda.org/gaf.git --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
I wouldn't strongly object to a merge but... On 8 January 2011 23:31, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Peter TB Brett wrote: > >>> Nice. >>> Would you object against a merge with "Howto report bugs"? >> >> I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs >> are different jobs. > > Sure, but I'd like to: > > 1) not spread bug reporting advice all over the site like we currently do. I think reporting and triage are two separate processes that are carried out by two intersecting sets of people. I think there's a good argument for two separate pages. If not, it must be /extremely clear/ that they are two separate processes carried out by different people, otherwise the naive bug reporter may attempt to triage their own bug. I do agree there should only be 1 bug *reporting* page though. > > 2) suggest, that someone, who reports a bug may also confirm others. > I imagine, this works better, if the triage See above. I don't think that necessarily follows. Bug reporting could be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of people. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
