Re: gEDA-user: Bug in [ctrl-a]
- Original message - > Hi. > In git head, there is a new feature to select all with [ctrl-a]. > Under specific circumstances, visible attributes move at double pace > compared to the rest of the symbol. To reproduce: That sounds like a bug in moving to me. Did you file bug report? Peter -- Peter Brett Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Rant about "Make Inv Text Vis"
- Original message - > What is the point of the command Make Inv Text Vis in gschem, other than > aggravating me. Good question. I'm not aware of a use-case for it either. At the very least, it should be undo-able. Please file a bug report. Peter -- Peter Brett Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]
On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 20:59 -0500, al davis wrote: > Anyone here who uses LTspice need only to look in the mirror to > figure that out. Apparently, there are some features that > Altium has that they consider to be important. What are they? Will get back to you when I know more, but having chatted to these guys in the past: a) They have Altium b) They have bits in Altium already (footprints etc..) -> momentum. c) They need an auto-router which can handle really complex stuff. d) Blind / buried vias may be needed. No-one could in good conscience suggest PCB is going to be able to compete up with that sort of design. git HEAD rendering speed alone would make it prohibitive. > > How would the conversion be performed? > > That's obvious. They are waiting for us to provide a conversion > utility. Not necessarily.. but whatever happens, it may well be beneficial to the community as a whole. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]
al davis wrote: > On Friday 14 January 2011, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: >> Peter Clifton wrote: > > No. David Bisset wrote, on another list. Peter just passed it > on to us. > >> >> It is intended that these will be published in Altium >> >> format as that is the CAD package of choice for the >> >> design process. >> >> Why not geda in the first place? > > Anyone here who uses LTspice need only to look in the mirror to > figure that out. They apparently decided, to issue the schematics in geda format. This is unlike the simulation case, where it is not intended to redo the simulation in gnucap or ngspice. (BTW, I switched to qucs lately) > Apparently, there are some features that > Altium has that they consider to be important. What are they? That's why I asked. >> >> However we will also explore the possibility of publishing >> >> the files for one of the Open ECAD packages such as gEDA. >> >> How would the conversion be performed? > > That's obvious. They are waiting for us to provide a conversion > utility. Unless something has dramatically changed since I last checked, altium file format is completely inaccessible from outside. From the inside you'd have to sign strict NDAs. > > Let me ask for help again. .. Gnucap has a conversion facility I looked at lang_verilog_in.cc Unfortunately, my c++ is not fluent enough to read the code right away. This is aggravated by the lack of comments on what the various code blocks do. Since I also don't know verilog by heart, the whole file looks more like a puzzle. Sorry, but this fruit is hanging too high for me. (You can call me programming coward) Is there a comprehensive specification, what gnucap expects to get from the import plugin? If so, it might make a gschem import component a lot easier. > based on Verilog syntax. If someone writes a plugin for geda > format (which I have already asked for), and someone else writes > one for Altium format, we have that translator. I don't see how this could possibly work. Both, gschem and altium contain a graphical representation of the circuit. Unless I massively missed something, verilog is completely procedural. Graphics information would be lost during the process. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Bug in [ctrl-a]
Hi. In git head, there is a new feature to select all with [ctrl-a]. Under specific circumstances, visible attributes move at double pace compared to the rest of the symbol. To reproduce: 1) open a new schematic 2) choose two arbitrary symbols and place them about 10 cm above each other on the canvas 3) select both symbols 4) move the selection such that one of the symbols is below the lower border of the canvas (not the view port) 5) click somewhere else to unselect the symbols 6) select all with [ctrl-a] 7) move the selection The visible attributes will move correctly during movement but will jump ahead when the move is done. the when the ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Rant about "Make Inv Text Vis"
On Friday, January 14, 2011, Oliver King-Smith wrote: > What is the point of the command Make Inv Text Vis in gschem, other > than aggravating me. I mean putting next to the Show Hide Inv Text is > just plain mean. And there is no way to change a bunch of stuff back > to invisible if you fail to notice your error. You have to go through > every single thing and fix it (arghh)! > Just curious? > Oliver > Agree. Cleaning up after this misfeature has cost me quite a bit of time. Mark -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markra...@midwesttelecine.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Rant about "Make Inv Text Vis"
What is the point of the command Make Inv Text Vis in gschem, other than aggravating me. I mean putting next to the Show Hide Inv Text is just plain mean. And there is no way to change a bunch of stuff back to invisible if you fail to notice your error. You have to go through every single thing and fix it (arghh)! Just curious? Oliver ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soft and Hard symbols
> On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:32 AM, Peter Clifton wrote: > > Ideally (to be forward compatible with format changes), > > that plugin would use libgeda. If someone starts on this, > > please let us know via the lists + bug tracker ( > > https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs ) if you find any API > > which is lacking. > On Friday 14 January 2011, John Doty wrote: > The trouble with this reasoning is that the .sch file format > is reasonably simple, well documented, expressive, > extensible, and stable. The libgeda API is complex, poorly > documented, and badly in need of revision. Only a few tools > use the libgeda API, but there are many useful scripts out > in the gEDA universe that deal with .sch and .sym files > directly, so file format changes would be big trouble in any > case. You have a point ... Without getting into the quality of the format or libgeda, lets assume that both are likely to change in the future in some way. The Gnucap plugin system allows many plugins for many different formats. It is reasonable to expect that when the format changes there could be plugins for both the new and old versions, providing a migration path between them. If libgeda changes, which it will need to if it will support the new format or new features that may be needed, any code using it also needs to change, causing maintenance issues. If something is written, it is not known whether whoever writes it will want to make the changes as libgeda changes. Besides, it may be necessary to keep the old one around for backward compatibility. It is better to eliminate such a burden. Reading a file is easy. The hard part about the geda format, where use of libgeda may be advantageous, is establishing connectivity. I don't know where that is done, or if it is done in a form that would be useful here, or whether there exists the code to go the other way (generate a schematic given a netlist and rendering info) which is equally needed. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]
On Friday 14 January 2011, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Peter Clifton wrote: No. David Bisset wrote, on another list. Peter just passed it on to us. > >> It is intended that these will be published in Altium > >> format as that is the CAD package of choice for the > >> design process. > > Why not geda in the first place? Anyone here who uses LTspice need only to look in the mirror to figure that out. Apparently, there are some features that Altium has that they consider to be important. What are they? > >> However we will also explore the possibility of publishing > >> the files for one of the Open ECAD packages such as gEDA. > > How would the conversion be performed? That's obvious. They are waiting for us to provide a conversion utility. Let me ask for help again. .. Gnucap has a conversion facility based on Verilog syntax. If someone writes a plugin for geda format (which I have already asked for), and someone else writes one for Altium format, we have that translator. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]
Peter Clifton wrote: >> It is intended that these will be published in Altium format as that >> is the CAD package of choice for the design process. Why not geda in the first place? >> However we will also explore the possibility of publishing the files >> for one of the Open ECAD packages such as gEDA. How would the conversion be performed? >> The BOHL will be modified to encompass this change and the onus will >> be on organisations that decide to use the Balloon 4 design to make >> the instantiations they create Open and available for purchase. Those who use the schematics are required to make the resulting device available for purchase? How would this be enforced? ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soft and Hard symbols
On 1/14/2011 6:13 PM, John Griessen wrote: On 01/12/2011 01:29 PM, al davis wrote: There is a real problem with the interface to gEDA, and also with displaying the results. Does anyone want to help fix this problem Sure, just can't divert from the main project of creating the free time to do such. The first cuts of all my products in planning don't even need simulation so I can't justify time yet. I did get a little progress with verilog-ams for gnucap a while back though, so if anyone wants to send some tip money, I'll dig into it proportionately. Perhaps you can take inspiration from some other web sites and do your work in front of a web cam. Others can watch and when they are inspired, they can provide tips in real time. When you don't get enough tips you can stop working until they tip more... ;^) I won't say what web sites I've been watching lately... 8-] Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soft and Hard symbols
On 01/12/2011 01:29 PM, al davis wrote: There is a real problem with the interface to gEDA, and also with displaying the results. Does anyone want to help fix this problem Sure, just can't divert from the main project of creating the free time to do such. The first cuts of all my products in planning don't even need simulation so I can't justify time yet. I did get a little progress with verilog-ams for gnucap a while back though, so if anyone wants to send some tip money, I'll dig into it proportionately. JG ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: FYI [Fwd: [Balloon] Balloon 4]
Forwarded Message > From: David Bisset > Reply-to: da...@itechnic.co.uk > To: ball...@balloonboard.org > Subject: [Balloon] Balloon 4 > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:30:41 - > > There has been a flurry of activity over the last few months trying to > see what sort of design might constitute Balloon 4. > > > > There is now an agreement with Toby Churchill Ltd that will fund the > development of an Open Hardware board based around their requirements > for an embedded processor to replace Balloon 3. > > > > We are still trying to decide on a processor but current thinking is > that it should be based on OMAP 3. > > This will allow us to tap into a vast amount of open source hardware > and software expertise. > > > > The emphasis will remain on designing an embeddable processor board > with good accessible IO and onboard programmable logic. > > > > Because the design intent is that the board will be embedded into > products it is important that any IO can be broken out to standard > connectors off board. > > > > The design team would welcome suggestions of what to include, and what > not to include, given that we wish to differentiate from other boards > in the market, and that the board will be used in products that will > have to gain CE mark approvals. > > *It is not our intent to design yet another netbook.* > > > > One major change from the way that the Balloon 3 project worked has > also been agreed. > > > > For Balloon 4 we will open the design at the schematic level, > publishing the schematic designs and full PCB design files. > > It is intended that these will be published in Altium format as that > is the CAD package of choice for the design process. > > However we will also explore the possibility of publishing the files > for one of the Open ECAD packages such as gEDA. > > This will allow third parties to develop their own instantiations of > the Balloon 4 design. > > > > This move recognises the fact that the barrier to production is the > finance required to get a PCB like this into production and the > expertise needed to design and debug it, rather than the IP in the > design. > > > > It is intended that the schematic design will be created as modular > blocks and that these will be published individually. > > Each block will then be tagged with a confidence level indicating the > level of prototyping, manufacturing and testing that has been applied > to it. In this way others can contribute modules at a schematic level > without breaking the core design. > > > > For this reason the term “Balloon 4” will now refer to the collection > of schematic design modules rather than a specific PCB instantiation. > > The BOHL will be modified to encompass this change and the onus will > be on organisations that decide to use the Balloon 4 design to make > the instantiations they create Open and available for purchase. > > > > Any comments and thoughts are welcome, both on the design and the more > open design approach. > > > > David Bisset > > > > > > __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5788 (20110114) __ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > ___ > Balloon mailing list > ball...@balloonboard.org > http://balloonboard.org/mailman/listinfo/balloon -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soft and Hard symbols
On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:32 AM, Peter Clifton wrote: > On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 19:41 -0500, al davis wrote: >>> On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:29 AM, al davis wrote: > >> That's great. There is a long list of things that need to be >> done. Where do you want to start? >> >> My preference is to start with netlist translation, using >> gnucap's translator system that goes both ways. In this case, >> that's a "language plugin", reading and writing the gschem >> format > > Ideally (to be forward compatible with format changes), that plugin > would use libgeda. If someone starts on this, please let us know via the > lists + bug tracker ( https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs ) if you find any > API which is lacking. The trouble with this reasoning is that the .sch file format is reasonably simple, well documented, expressive, extensible, and stable. The libgeda API is complex, poorly documented, and badly in need of revision. Only a few tools use the libgeda API, but there are many useful scripts out in the gEDA universe that deal with .sch and .sym files directly, so file format changes would be big trouble in any case. --- John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. This message contains technical discussion involving difficult issues. No personal disrespect or malice is intended. If you perceive such, your perception is simply wrong. I'm a busy person, and in my business "go along to get along" causes mission failures and sometimes kills people, so I tend to be a bit blunt. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soft and Hard symbols
On Friday 14 January 2011, Peter Clifton wrote: > On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 19:41 -0500, al davis wrote: > > > On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:29 AM, al davis wrote: > > That's great. There is a long list of things that need to > > be done. Where do you want to start? > > > > > > > > My preference is to start with netlist translation, using > > gnucap's translator system that goes both ways. In this > > case, that's a "language plugin", reading and writing the > > gschem format > > Ideally (to be forward compatible with format changes), that > plugin would use libgeda. If someone starts on this, please > let us know via the lists + bug tracker ( > https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs ) if you find any API which > is lacking. That makes sense to me, I think. > > then another language plugin for the PCB format. > > I don't see how the two are congruent. Did you mean for > extracting layout for simulation? Yes. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Soft and Hard symbols
On Thu, 2011-01-13 at 19:41 -0500, al davis wrote: > > On Jan 12, 2011, at 11:29 AM, al davis wrote: > That's great. There is a long list of things that need to be > done. Where do you want to start? > > My preference is to start with netlist translation, using > gnucap's translator system that goes both ways. In this case, > that's a "language plugin", reading and writing the gschem > format Ideally (to be forward compatible with format changes), that plugin would use libgeda. If someone starts on this, please let us know via the lists + bug tracker ( https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs ) if you find any API which is lacking. > then another language plugin for the PCB format. I don't see how the two are congruent. Did you mean for extracting layout for simulation? -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB antenna pattern
Kovacs Levente writes: > I am designing a zigbee interface, and I am using an inverted F antenna > out of PCB pattern. The problem is that the terminals of the antenna > pattern are shorted (well not on 2.4GHz), so I don't have any clue what > to put to the schematic. So far, I simply grounded the antenna pin of > the transceiver, but it can lead to misunderstanding. The other option > is to have a two-pin symbol, but the pattern will cause short circuit > when running the DRC. > > Any suggestion? I'd put the antenna, or at least the short, on a separate layer, in the same group as the normal copper layer. For verification, you can temporarily move the antenna layer to it's own group. Just remember to do the checkout with the correct group assignment. If you get an extra gerber layer for the short, then you know you made a mistake. > > Thanks, > Levente -- Stephan Böttcher FAX: +49-431-880-3968 Extraterrestrische PhysikTel: +49-431-880-2508 I.f.Exp.u.Angew.Physik mailto:boettc...@physik.uni-kiel.de Leibnizstr. 11, 24118 Kiel, Germany ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
