gEDA-user: Design Nark
Is it just me being a Grumpy Old Man or does anyone else take issue with RS over their advertising for their Design Spark EDA tool? In particular the statement at the end of the last paragraph in: http://www.designspark.com/content/designspark-pcb-version-2-takes-pcb-design-another-dimension that With the release of DesignSpark PCB Version 2, RS has reaffirmed its commitment to delivering the best open source experience to its engineering community. To the best of my knowledge, no source code for Design Spark has been released. I have had conversations with people presenting Design Spark at RS sponsored events about making Design Spark open source and have been told categorically that they have no intention of releasing the source code. I suppose RS do only claim to be delivering whatever it is that they are delivering, to its engineering community., i.e. not to anyone else's. To a lesser extent I find the statement here: http://www.designspark.com/theme/designspark-pcb that DesignSpark PCB is the world's most powerful free of charge PCB design tool. a bit presumptuous too. Bah. Humbug! Andy. signality.co.uk ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: question about how to get pads on my circuit board for power and gnd...
Ed Hartnett wrote: So it looks like I am missing an m4 footprint called SIP2N. I will took a look at gedasymbols, but it was not there. Can you email it? The attribute footprint=SIP2N was brought by the connector symbol in the default. However, the default lib of PCB does not include a footprint with this name. (Oh my. Most symbols omit footprint attributes. And one of the few that does, presents an invalid value...) I attached a version of the schematics with the footprint attributes changed to HEADER2_1. This should be included in your PCB install. -- Search for HEADER2_1.fp. For reference I also attached a PCB with components as placed by import schematics from the file menu of PCB. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist gndcon.pcb Description: application/pcb-layout gndcon.sch Description: application/geda-schematic ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 13:01:13 +0100 Andy Fierman andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: Is it just me being a Grumpy Old Man or does anyone else take issue with RS over their advertising for their Design Spark EDA tool? Everyone should demand truth in advertising! ...Grumpy Old Men and Irreverent Young Kids alike. In particular the statement at the end of the last paragraph in: http://www.designspark.com/content/designspark-pcb-version-2-takes-pcb-design-another-dimension that With the release of DesignSpark PCB Version 2, RS has reaffirmed its commitment to delivering the best open source experience to its engineering community. That statement is obviously false: DesignSpark is not open source (no matter what understanding of “open source” one holds). I suppose RS do only claim to be delivering whatever it is that they are delivering, to its engineering community., i.e. not to anyone else's. That doesn't make any sense to me. To a lesser extent I find the statement here: http://www.designspark.com/theme/designspark-pcb that DesignSpark PCB is the world's most powerful free of charge PCB design tool. a bit presumptuous too. In advertising, everyone uses superlatives, when clearly all the competing products cannot simultaneously be the best. An objective side-by-side comparison of alternatives is always useful. What is RS's criteria for “most powerful” PCB design tool? Personally, I am scared of having my designs locked down by a proprietary tool. What if DesignSpark is discontinued next year or RS decides to start charging $$$ for it? Will I be able to still access, edit, and manipulate my designs ten years from now, when all computers are 128-bit 64-core ARMv24 machines running Linux 3.0 and the new Windows 2022 is available only as a pay-by-the-hour cloud computing service with built-in pop-up ads? ... Maybe an extreme example, but really: what if DesignSpark was discontinued next year, and didn't support Windows 8? The openness and simplicity of the gEDA file formats and the free and open nature of the software itself, not to mention decent (?) platform independence, make it a stellar choice for future-proofing your designs. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
Andy Fierman wrote: Is it just me being a Grumpy Old Man or does anyone else take issue with RS over their advertising for their Design Spark EDA tool? (Disclaimer: My opinions only, and nothing to do with my employer) If you feel strongly enough about it, why not report it to the ASA? If they're advertising it as open source but it's not, that would appear to be a clear-cut case of false advertising. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
We could spite them by implementing all of their features. --- On Tue, 7/19/11, Andy Fierman andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: From: Andy Fierman andyfier...@signality.co.uk Subject: gEDA-user: Design Nark To: gEDA user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 8:01 AM Is it just me being a Grumpy Old Man or does anyone else take issue with RS over their advertising for their Design Spark EDA tool? In particular the statement at the end of the last paragraph in: [1]http://www.designspark.com/content/designspark-pcb-version-2-takes-p cb-design-another-dimension that With the release of DesignSpark PCB Version 2, RS has reaffirmed its commitment to delivering the best open source experience to its engineering community. To the best of my knowledge, no source code for Design Spark has been released. I have had conversations with people presenting Design Spark at RS sponsored events about making Design Spark open source and have been told categorically that they have no intention of releasing the source code. I suppose RS do only claim to be delivering whatever it is that they are delivering, to its engineering community., i.e. not to anyone else's. To a lesser extent I find the statement here: [2]http://www.designspark.com/theme/designspark-pcb that DesignSpark PCB is the world's most powerful free of charge PCB design tool. a bit presumptuous too. Bah. Humbug! Andy. signality.co.uk ___ geda-user mailing list [3]geda-user@moria.seul.org [4]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. http://www.designspark.com/content/designspark-pcb-version-2-takes-pcb-design-another-dimension 2. http://www.designspark.com/theme/designspark-pcb 3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=geda-user@moria.seul.org 4. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Jul 19, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Josh Jordan wrote: We could spite them by implementing all of their features. Shudder. A powerful toolkit should not be copying features from consumer software. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Jul 19, 2011, at 10:59 AM, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: On Jul 19, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Josh Jordan wrote: We could spite them by implementing all of their features. Shudder. A powerful toolkit should not be copying features from consumer software. We can do better. :-). On a side note Are there features that would be nice to have? John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB segfaults on click in netlist window
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 01:04:10AM +0200, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Hi. With my current project PCB sefaults reproducably. It crashes when I click on one of the node items on the right column of the netlist window. Curiously, everything is fine if I click on the right column for the first time in a session. The cross hair jumps to where the node happens to be on the canvas and everything looks fine. But when I try this trick again (with a different node), PCB segfaults instantly. There is nothing on the command line except for the string Segmentation fault. Fixed in 0c2f7e77. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: asp11 at sfu.ca OR apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Steven Michalske wrote: We can do better. :-). On a side note Are there features that would be nice to have? It would be nice to *remove* features like hierarchy expansion and slotting, while leaving the *capability* to put them back with scripts. These are things that *cannot* be done correctly with a single approach for every case, so the flexibility offered by scripting is needed. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 11:24 AM, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Steven Michalske wrote: We can do better. :-). On a side note Are there features that would be nice to have? It would be nice to *remove* features like hierarchy expansion and slotting, while leaving the *capability* to put them back with scripts. These are things that *cannot* be done correctly with a single approach for every case, so the flexibility offered by scripting is needed. Agreed, but to remove them we need to make the script that replaces current functionality. It would be nice to see the hierarchy expander open up the pins to gschem file for a large connector, on say an auto symbol. Where auto symbol means a symbol that is defined by a script not by a static file. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:38:25 -0700 Steven Michalske smichal...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed, but to remove them we need to make the script that replaces current functionality. It would be nice to see the hierarchy expander open up the pins to gschem file for a large connector, on say an auto symbol. Where auto symbol means a symbol that is defined by a script not by a static file. And not m4 script, please! Ideally various scripting languages could be used (Python, Perl, Scheme, Lua, etc.) as various users prefer. Personally, I would be happy with a clean language such as either Python or Lua. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On 19/07/2011, Colin D Bennett co...@gibibit.com wrote: And not m4 script, please! Ideally various scripting languages could be used (Python, Perl, Scheme, Lua, etc.) as various users prefer. Personally, I would be happy with a clean language such as either Python or Lua. How about a symbol with an 'execute' attribute, when it is found it runs whatever is there passing the rest of the attributes as parameters or via stdin, then outputting the result. Even something like shar could be implemented, so the script and the symbol are in one file. Of course this opens the problem of checking third party symbols from nasty stuff inside. Maybe I looked into wrong places but something to filter the current selection / buffer with an external program would be useful too. -- Adrian. http://ovejafm.com http://elesquinazotango.com.ar http://www.elarteylatecnologia.com.ar ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:56:18 -0300 Adrian Pardini pardo.b...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/07/2011, Colin D Bennett co...@gibibit.com wrote: And not m4 script, please! Ideally various scripting languages could be used (Python, Perl, Scheme, Lua, etc.) as various users prefer. Personally, I would be happy with a clean language such as either Python or Lua. How about a symbol with an 'execute' attribute, when it is found it runs whatever is there passing the rest of the attributes as parameters or via stdin, then outputting the result. Even something like shar could be implemented, so the script and the symbol are in one file. Of course this opens the problem of checking third party symbols from nasty stuff inside. That's a nice general-purpose idea. But as you mention, it is a serious security hole that we can avoid with some more supporting code. For instance, a sandboxed Lua environment is trivial to implement. Maybe I looked into wrong places but something to filter the current selection / buffer with an external program would be useful too. That would be useful, too. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
Am 19.07.2011 um 20:15 schrieb Steven Michalske: On a side note Are there features that would be nice to have? Coming from Eagle, the thing I'm missing most is a simple object editor. There's Menu - Tools - Generate object report, but the result isn't editable. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
John Doty wrote: On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Steven Michalske wrote: We can do better. :-). On a side note Are there features that would be nice to have? It would be nice to *remove* features like hierarchy expansion and slotting, You seriously propose to one of the most powerful features because it does not fit the needs of every conceivable use case? Surely, you are joking. while leaving the *capability* to put them back with scripts. Real scripting would allow to install whatever behavior you conceive. There is no need to remove anything in advance. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB segfaults on click in netlist window
Andrew Poelstra wrote: There is nothing on the command line except for the string Segmentation fault. Fixed in 0c2f7e77. Nice! You beat me write a bug report at launchpad! :-)) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On Jul 19, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: It would be nice to *remove* features like hierarchy expansion and slotting, You seriously propose to one of the most powerful features because it does not fit the needs of every conceivable use case? Surely, you are joking. Well, of course when releasing such a thing you'd accompany it with default scripts for gschem and gnetlist that would reproduce current behavior. I certainly have no interest in breaking my existing projects. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
Markus Hitter wrote: Coming from Eagle, the thing I'm missing most is a simple object editor. There's Menu - Tools - Generate object report, but the result isn't editable. You refer to PCB, do you? But the gschem GUI could benfit from a generalized access to properties, too. Right now, there are numerous, specialized dialogs. (attribute_editor, multiple_atribute_editor, text_editor, color_editor, line_widthtype_editor, fill_type_editor). The user has to know in advance which dialog applies. ---)kaiamrtin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
From: smichal...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:15:48 -0700 To: geda-user@moria.seul.org Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark On Jul 19, 2011, at 10:59 AM, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: On Jul 19, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Josh Jordan wrote: We could spite them by implementing all of their features. Shudder. A powerful toolkit should not be copying features from consumer software. We can do better. :-). On a side note Are there features that would be nice to have? From http://www.designspark.com/theme/designspark-pcb I would highlight one line: Bill of materials reports can be generated at any time, these will give RS order numbers where appropriate. That would be nice feature. Find these BC547 transistors from these many suppliers and write BOM. And as early as possible in gschem when some component is selected. Or have I read poorly gedasymbols.org and there is some Makefile which does this with help of gnetlist :) At leas most of my time goes to find some special connector and its supplier for each purpose. Just some ideas. Hannu Vuolasaho ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB segfaults on click in netlist window
On 07/19/2011 05:48 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Andrew Poelstra wrote: There is nothing on the command line except for the string Segmentation fault. Fixed in 0c2f7e77. Nice! You beat me write a bug report at launchpad! :-)) ---)kaimartin(--- Thanks for the quick fix! I have observed a similar crash before without hierarchical netlists, but I can't reproduce at the moment. I'd suggest going ahead and put in the bug report with the fix so that we've got a record of a bug and it's fix for future reference. -Ethan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
Hannu Vuolasaho wrote: Find these BC547 transistors from these many suppliers and write BOM. Yes, this would be a wonderful tool. But it would also be more than a simple script whipped up on a lazy weekend. Unfortunately, distributors offer their commodities in vastly different formats. In addition, distributors like to change the way their online catalogs work. A searching tool would have to track these changes. Next step would be: Import the BOM to an accounting application like sql-ledger :-) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
