Re: gEDA-user: test repo
On 5 September 2011 14:28, Bob Paddock bob.padd...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for setting up such a service, a well kept secret until now let's keep this one quite as not to waken the wild hoards of windoze users ;-) Should windoze users file bug reports in LP for these nightly windows snapshots too ? Bugs are bugs, they need reported. This anti-Windows attitude is not helpful to the project, and I'm not trying to pick on you specifically Bert. sorry if it seems that way. Well said, Bob. If we /really/ want Eagle users to move to gEDA/gaf and PCB (and I do, because I'm sick fed up of seeing open hardware being developed on Eagle), the whole pipeline needs to run (and run well i.e. as close to native as we can get within reason) on Windows platforms. In fact, I'd go further and say that if we also had a native OS X build (not macports/fink) we'd have a pretty killer proposition for the open hardware community. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: test repo
On 5 September 2011 15:16, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: First person to send me a shiny Apple laptop bought themselves that development work ;) (Seriously). I have one, but Objective-C and Cocoa are completely alien to me, otherwise I'd be all over it. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Design Nark
On 29 July 2011 12:53, andrew whyte ajwh...@gmail.com wrote: Unless anyone can see a good reason for obviously biased gEDA users not to report this? The ASA's position is that this particular page is editorial content on a blog, and is not in their purview. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Scheme API branch merged
On 27 June 2011 15:38, Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: Merge branch 'peter-b/guile-scheme-api'. Well done, Peter, I know this was a mammoth effort. I'm looking forward to working with the new API functions. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gEDA file format - couple of questions on attributes.
Hi there, I'm still intermittently working on a parser in Python for the gEDA/gaf file format and I have a couple of questions that I hope the list can answer. 1) are there any restrictions on the characters in attribute names and values (other than no = in the name) ? 2) Can attributes be multiline text or are they always single line text (but perhaps several)? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gEDA/gaf autotools build system - expected failure making gschem.html?
Hi there, I'm working through bringing up a new machine with the gEDA suite from git HEAD and I thought I'd take the opportunity to create patches to tidy up some of the autotools files while I'm doing it, but I wanted to check the intent of the current behaviour before opening bugs/filing patches in case it's actually working the way it should be. One issue I've run into is the groff requirement. If I don't have groff html driver installed, running configure with the default options gives the following transcript in config.log: configure:12599: checking whether groff has an html driver groff: can't find `DESC' file groff:fatal error: invalid device `html' (try installing the `groff' package?) configure:12608: result: no Then when I run make, I get: No working groff available: cannot create gschem.html make: ***[gschem.html] Error 1 What's the correct/preferred behaviour? 1) what it does now - error out during build 2) Warn instead of error on the inability to create gschem.html, but continue the build. 3) Fail at configure if groff html driver is not present i.e. treat it as a hard prerequisite 4) something else Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA with Guile 2.0
On 4 June 2011 00:57, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: Currently, the only known problem is that the `drc2' gnetlist backend is broken. This is now fixed, and there are no known issues with using the gEDA main development branch with Guile 2.0. Nicely done, Peter. Thank you. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Python: Task list ...
On 27 May 2011 05:33, John Doty j...@noqsi.com wrote: It seems to me that the first step to switching languages here is for somebody to: 1. Define a mapping of the .sch/.sym file format into a data structure. 2. Implement a parser that reads a file into such a structure. I don't think this is a job for a committee. One we have this, though, we can all start playing. Any volunteers to do this in Python? Funny you should say this. I've been working on and off on a grammar for PyParsing: http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/ to do the second part of that. Happy for me to continue and publish? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Task list for: Solving the light/heavy symbol problem
On 26 May 2011 19:52, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: Although Perl is probably better for string-handling, I think Python would be a better choice. It feels a lot more like a Lisp and quite a bit more well-known these days. +1 for Python from me, even though until very recently I was a Tcl bigot. As an example, it's been at the heart of Blender since the 2.5 rewrite and it works very well indeed. It can be used to write in a functional (to a certain extent) style as well as imperative and object-oriented styles, and the string handling in the standard library is very decent. If there's a prototype/proof-of-principle that needs to be written in Python, I'd be happy to contribute. If it's to be done in Perl, I'm washing my hair that month ;) Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Another free schematic/PCB tool
On 4 February 2011 09:28, Andy Fierman andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: Sorry if I seem a bit scathing but it seems less an interesting article, more a very wordy advert. It's a house mag, I wouldn't expect any different. My company does one too. If you pay for publishing it, you get to decide what goes in it. And I'm struggling with the Open Source part of the title. Free, yes. FOSS; no. Agreed. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: MultiSim, Analog Devices Edition
More competition from the free-as-in-beer sector for circuit simulation: http://www.elektor.com/news/free-downloadable-spice-simulator-for-analog.1699331.lynkx Not sure how closely it's 'tailored' towards ADI though. /GDE ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Another free schematic/PCB tool
Some recent coverage on DesignSpark (written by the TME for the product) in the RS house rag here (p24): http://www.easyflip.co.uk/takeiteasy/rscomponents/eTech_-_Issue_5_UK/enter.html The section Open Source Design Tools in the middle of p25 is worth reading if you can put up with the Flash document reader for long enough to get there. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem: directly connecting two nets?
On 27 January 2011 00:00, Stephen Ecob silicon.on.inspirat...@gmail.com wrote: So there are several use cases for treating copper as non-connecting: * low value resistors * fuses * low value inductors * aerials * contacts for solder switches (eg SPDT in solder) * Transmission lines ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 10 January 2011 00:48, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. Your argument against a comprehensive bug management page in the wiki was the wish to separate bug reporting people from those, who do the triage. No, it was a desire to decouple the processes, not the people. This implies to me, that ordinary users should be discouraged from doing the triage. And the triage policy should be out of their eyes. The processes are distinct enough to deserve their own pages. Some people will report bugs. Some people will triage bugs. Some will do both. The link on the reporting page facilitates that. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
I wouldn't strongly object to a merge but... On 8 January 2011 23:31, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Peter TB Brett wrote: Nice. Would you object against a merge with Howto report bugs? I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs are different jobs. Sure, but I'd like to: 1) not spread bug reporting advice all over the site like we currently do. I think reporting and triage are two separate processes that are carried out by two intersecting sets of people. I think there's a good argument for two separate pages. If not, it must be /extremely clear/ that they are two separate processes carried out by different people, otherwise the naive bug reporter may attempt to triage their own bug. I do agree there should only be 1 bug *reporting* page though. 2) suggest, that someone, who reports a bug may also confirm others. I imagine, this works better, if the triage See above. I don't think that necessarily follows. Bug reporting could be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of people. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 9 January 2011 19:07, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. /GDE ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 7 January 2011 10:14, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Pick a bug from here: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs?search=Searchfield.status=New (gEDA) or: https://launchpad.net/pcb/+bugs?search=Searchfield.status=New (pcb) Grab git HEAD of whichever package the bug is in (if you don't have it already), and try to confirm whether the bug is still present or not. Bug present: New - Confirmed Bug absent: Make a comment - set bug to Invalid, Fix released, or Incomplete... depending on how confident you are that the bug was bogus, fixed by some commit since the bug reported, or Incomplete if you ask the reporter a question which requires answering. Does it make sense to move (other peoples) Wishlist items to Confirmed, or just leave them as New? Just thinking these might be a lot more subjective than bug reports. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Hi On 8 January 2011 21:26, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere IMHO, bug reporting is worth a dedicated page in the wiki. I just started one at: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:howto_report_bugs?#bug_trackers Feel free to add a section on bug triage and etiquette. I'm already half way through writing one elsewhere. I'll add a link. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 8 January 2011 21:29, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:bug_triage_guide ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Dev list [was: Random thoughts on the future interface of PCB]
Hi Peter, On 9 December 2010 10:27, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: Perhaps the time has come to reconsider the role of and access to the gEDA-dev list? How can we ensure that it doesn't collapse into an unproductive bikeshedfest again? Honestly, I don't think that time has come. I still see those same conversations shifted to the user list now and they would simply move back to the dev list again. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On 21 November 2010 02:05, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Sat, 2010-11-20 at 22:48 +, Gareth Edwards wrote: The usability of the Blender 2.5x betas is a step-change from the existing versions. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's considerably less insane. Just installed it, seems pretty good compared with 2.45. Thanks for the pointer! Also, I have a reasonable amount of Blender experience so feel free to ping me if you need any help (on- or off-list). I think that in spite of its faults, Blender is the dominant FOSS 3D application and it should be at least an option for getting models into a 3D-capable pcb. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: a different approach to 3D modeling
On 19 November 2010 23:03, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Fri, 2010-11-19 at 14:07 -0800, Colin D Bennett wrote: It has to be mentioned that Blender is free and open source but Google Sketchup is not. I took that as known, but I don't disprove of using good commercial software to do a job. I find Blender quite challenging to work with. The usability of the Blender 2.5x betas is a step-change from the existing versions. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's considerably less insane. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: ANNOUNCE: New gEDA Scheme extension API
On 4 November 2010 23:53, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: After almost 18 months of design, preliminary work, and research, I am pleased present my latest gEDA Big Project. ### A COMPREHENSIVE SCHEME API FOR gEDA ### I think it would be better in Tcl. I'M KIDDING Great work Peter, I'm travelling to Dallas for a meeting next week and I'm going to take this branch with me for a play during the dull moments - hoping to be able to contribute patches. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA interview with DJ at DevCon
On 27 October 2010 21:53, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: for your amusement... http://www.eevblog.com/2010/10/27/eevblog-121-geda-interview-with-dj-delorie/ I probably got the odd fact or two wrong, but I think it went well... Thanks, DJ, I enjoyed watching this. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA and PCB at DVClub UK - thanks, Chitlesh
Hi Chitlesh On 28 September 2010 19:03, Chitlesh GOORAH chitlesh.goo...@gmail.com wrote: You can find the slides on http://www.tandvsolns.co.uk/downloads/ Would you mind if I re-presented your slideset to our Hackerspace (below in .sig)? I'm sure most of the members don't know that half of these tools even exist. Cheers Gareth -- Edinburgh Hacklab http://wiki.edinburghhacklab.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gEDA and PCB at DVClub UK - thanks, Chitlesh
I'm sitting listening to the UK DVClub meeting and Chitlesh Goorah is doing an excellent job of talking about Free Electronics Lab, including gEDA and PCB. Well done, Chitlesh and thanks for helping to promote FOSS to the professional community. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA and PCB at DVClub UK - thanks, Chitlesh
On 20 September 2010 15:57, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Cambridge or Bristol? Had I known (and it was Cambridge), I'd have come along! It was technically under the auspices of the Bristol club, but ARM hosted a presence in Cambridge. I would have trailed to the list if I'd spotted that Chitlesh was a speaker beforehand, sorry. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA/gaf and PCB on OS X
Thanks for all the inputs, all valuable. I'd like to maintain the fiction that I might hack on gEDA development properly one day so I'm going to do two things: 1) install it on an Ubuntu VM anyway, as I don't want to be that far away from a Linux install for other reasons and 2) have a crack at building from git using MacPorts for the deps Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gEDA/gaf and PCB on OS X
I've just ordered a new laptop and have gone over to the Dark Side. What's the latest best-practice for building and/or running gEDA/gaf and pcb on OS X? From my minimal knowledge, my options are: 1) VirtualBox an Ubuntu guest OS. This is my fallback, and is how I've been running gEDA on WinXP for the last couple of years. I know I can make this work and am comfortable with it. 2) Fink. I think John Doty uses this, and there is still a link to Jon Schneider's build instructions using Fink on the wiki 3) Macports. I don't know much about this. 4) something I haven't thought of. Any hard or anecdotal data appreciated. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Another free schematic/PCB tool
Some free-as-in-beer capture and layout software has been released by RS Components: http://www.designspark.com/pcb ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB import schematic
I'm having difficulty getting the new Import Schematic function in PCB working. I've set import::mode attribute to gnetlist and import:sch0 to my schematic filename. Running :Import() appears to do nothing, and the message log says Can't add rat lines because no netlist is loaded. What am I missing? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB import schematic
On 26 June 2010 11:17, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: I'm having difficulty getting the new Import Schematic function in PCB working. I've set import::mode attribute to gnetlist and import:sch0 to my schematic filename. Running :Import() appears to do nothing, and the message log says Can't add rat lines because no netlist is loaded. More data from the console: Failed to read pcbfwd scm file [/home/gareth/geda/share/gEDA/scheme/gnet-pcbfwd.scm] Backtrace: In current input: 1: 0* (pcbfwd /tmp/pcb.XX1JJfO2/gnetlist_output) unnamed port:1:1: In expression (pcbfwd /tmp/pcb.XX1JJfO2/gnetlist_output): unnamed port:1:1: Unbound variable: pcbfwd Could not open actions file /tmp/pcb.XX1JJfO2/gnetlist_output. I'm thinking my non-standard install location may have thrown the PCB installer off-kilter - I'll have a dig. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB import schematic
On 26 June 2010 11:22, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: On 26 June 2010 11:17, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: I'm having difficulty getting the new Import Schematic function in PCB working. I've set import::mode attribute to gnetlist and import:sch0 to my schematic filename. Running :Import() appears to do nothing, and the message log says Can't add rat lines because no netlist is loaded. OK, looks like PCB make install always puts the gnet-pcbfwd.scm file into $(datadir)/gEDA/scheme, which kind of assumes gaf and PCB are installed in the same place. The autotools setup for gaf allows the PCB install directory to be specified on the ./configure command line - is it arguable that the setup for PCB should allow the gaf install directory to be specified on the ./configure command line too? I'll work up a patch and stick it on the tracker anyway. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB: install gaf scheme to another directory (Was: Re: PCB import schematic)
On 26 June 2010 13:38, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: The autotools setup for gaf allows the PCB install directory to be specified on the ./configure command line - is it arguable that the setup for PCB should allow the gaf install directory to be specified on the ./configure command line too? I'll work up a patch and stick it on the tracker anyway. Patch 3021748 uploaded https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailaid=3021748group_id=73743atid=538813 Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB import schematic
On 26 June 2010 17:49, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: Note that it's src0, not sch0, to name the input files. Oops, error in transcription to email - I had it right in the board file. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Microsoft aims to bring apt/rpm-like tools to Windows
Saw this on the Csound list - may or may not be relevant to the Windows port: http://www.osnews.com/story/23131/Microsoft_Aims_to_Bring_apt_rpm-like_Tools_to_Windows ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Launchpad (was: rant: pcb print from command line)
On 11 March 2010 19:33, Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: On Thursday 11 March 2010 18:13:11 Duncan Drennan wrote: Is there some particular developer resistance to LaunchPad? Moving SF.net tracker items to Launchpad can be done automatically by requesting an import. That isn't a problem. However, we do need a consensus that Launchpad represents a genuine improvement on SF.net for a majority of gEDA developers and users (I know that there are some developers who are keen on it). So how do we explicitly get that consensus? Do we need a concrete proposal to vote or otherwise express opinion on? Does anyone strongly object if I try to write that? There are some things that would make moving to Launchpad a really compelling option: - A hook for git.gpleda.org that could update a Launchpad ticket referenced in a commit message. Doesn't look that difficult to do. There's an example post-receive-email script in the git contrib area that could be used as a template, and launchpad has an easy-to-use Python API. More details in the proposal, I guess. - Someone willing to research how best to arrange things in terms of Launchpad groups (we probably don't want everybody who's able to respond to bugs to have full administrative rights over the gEDA Launchpad project page, for instance). That should be in the proposal. I have a few ideas on that. - A volunteer to manage the migration process (e.g. writing patches for in- tree documentation and updating the wiki). I think we should get the consensus first. If that doesn't happen, we don't need a volunteer. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: rant: pcb print from command line
On 9 March 2010 18:23, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: If developer cycles is the bottle neck, the only solution is to increase the number of active developers. That's what I'm trying to do - both reduce the bottleneck, and make it easier to add more developers. From my perspective, DJ is on the money with: We need a way for people to enter the pcb development arena. except I'd substitute gEDA for pcb. I know what I want to do with gEDA, but the sheer scale of the codebase is intimidating and cooperating on patch triage/approval would be a way to actively change that. In a project of this scale, there will *always* be a hierarchy of developers. Whether that hierarchy is implicit or explicit is up to us. If we want to trial this model, I'm personally happy to become one of the second-class developers as Kai-Martin put it - to do some patch triage for gEDA tools in general, not just pcb. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Need help repairing a damaged FPGA board (GR-PCI-XC2V)
On 1 March 2010 22:00, Timothy Normand Miller theo...@gmail.com wrote: A relatively new professor here at OSU had one of these FPGA boards: http://www.pender.ch/docs/GR-PCI-XC2V_product_sheet.pdf Unfortunately, some students recently fried part of the power regulation circuit. We don't have the expertise to repair it ourselves, and we don't have the budget to buy something new. This board was being shared by multiple students, one of whom was using it for his masters thesis work. So its loss is rather painful and problematic. Any suggestions and help would be most appreciated! Get your professor to enrol on the Xilinx University Program: http://www.xilinx.com/univ/ (The) Xilinx University Program includes no charge access to our full suite of software tools and special academic pricing for university boards. Cheers Gareth (fair disclosure: I work for Xilinx) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Minor issue in tragesym_readme on wiki
I was having a look at this page: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:tragesym_readme and it says For creating a symbol you have to edit the sourcefile first. You can use the template.src file, which is in /examples/tragesym/ directory. Some examples are in the examples/tragesym directory too. However, these files are in utils/examples/tragesym, and only in source distributions - they are not installed. Should I create a patch to install them somewhere appropriate under $datadir? Or should I update the wiki to say that the examples and template are only in the source directories? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Change footprints on finished PCB
2009/11/27 Torsten Wagner torsten.wag...@gmail.com: Hi, I just had to change some footprints for a nearly finished pcb (some parts was tricky to order from resellers in small quantities). I used gattrib which allowed me to change the footprints very easily. After running gsch2pcb, I noticed that all old footprints was removed from the pcb and I had to load the new footprints into the pcb. However, the came as a single big bloob and it took me a lot of time to rearrange them to the nearly old positions. I am just wondering whether there is a method to replace old footprints without loosing the previous position. E.g., if you change a SMD part from 0402 to 0603 it is often the case, that there is enough space on the PCB and the bigger pads only need slightly modifications of the routing. Thus, it would be nice if the footprints just get replaced but position and orientation should be kept. did you see this? http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:pcb_tips#how_do_i_update_a_footprint_in_my_layout Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: Learning Scheme? WAS: How to deal with single/dual parts?
Hi John, 2009/11/22 John Doty j...@noqsi.com: And then, more specific to gnetlist, http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Jul-2009/msg00235.html Do you mind if I copy this into the wiki? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: Learning Scheme? WAS: How to deal with single/dual parts?
2009/11/24 John Doty j...@noqsi.com: On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:54 AM, Gareth Edwards wrote: Do you mind if I copy this into the wiki? Go right ahead. Done. added here: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gnetlist_scheme_tutorial and linked from here: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:guile_scripting Let me know if I've botched the wikification. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA 1.6: --enable-doxygen seems to have no effect
2009/10/31 Bert Timmerman bert.timmer...@xs4all.nl: Thanks for the patches, they're another step forward. Reading the patches 0003 and 0004, one question comes to mind: I'm not aware that there is a doxygen dir (or file) generated that has to be removed by the distclean-local rule ? A good question and one worth digging into in a bit of detail, as I don't understand the original Makefile decision that leads me to need it. If you run configure without --enable-doxygen, running 'make doxygen' in the */docs/ subdirectory *does* drop a doxygen file; here is what ends up in the Makefile in this build configuration: doxygen: gattrib.dox @echo 'Creating doxygen documentation for gattrib...' @echo 'Doxygen is not installed on your system.' $@ @echo 'The documentation can not be built from the sources.' $@ (the bottom two lines end up in the doxygen file) Going on the ideal that make distclean and make maintainer-clean should both remove every file that wasn't in the tarball or git respectively, I felt it valid to remove that file for both of those clean targets, hence patch 0003 and 0004. However, what I don't really get is the need to create that file in the first place. Why not just echo the messages to the transcript rather than dropping a file that, without opening it, is very difficult to know what it is for? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: )(
2009/10/2 Bill Gatliff b...@billgatliff.com: Cheating or not, all the examples he posted look _awesome_! :) Let's say the objective of the 3D effects/output in PCB were to test against a 3D model of the whole system--- not just to visualize the (populated) PCB. Would Blender be the right output format then? I guess it depends what your goal is. Kai-Martin's assumed goal was to produce a (photo?-)realistic depiction of the layout/assembly. Blender is extremely well suited to that. But... To me that's not as useful from an engineering perspective as, say, being able to see your board, and, crucially, interact with both the view of the board and maybe its mechanical location in the system, in real time. This definitely does not need raytracing and is the kind of application OpenGL is well suited to. Having said that, I think it could be possible/desirable/cool to use the Blender game engine as the mechanism to work with an interactive view of the assembly, but there may be a mechanical CAD application around that would do a job. (and did I mention Blender is an OpenGL application?) Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Slightly OT: Premier Farnell buys Cadsoft (Eagle)
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/09/24/47028/premier-farnell-buys-design-software-firm-cadsoft.htm ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Wiki issue and a printing question
All, I've noticed an issue with the wiki page here: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gschem It says that Scheme script gschem-print.scm should be used, but that file doesn't seem to be in the HEAD install. Assuming print.scm (which does exist) is the current script, can someone with edit permissions fix it? I have none. which brings me to my real question... I'm trying to get a colour print of my schematic out of gschem. Using the (output-color enabled) scriptlet in my gschemrc results in a black background for my print, presumably because it's defaulting to the dark colour scheme - but even when I switch to the light colour scheme in the GUI, it outputs a black background in the PS. How do I switch to light background for printing? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Minor errors in build instructions on gpleda.org?
I noticed tonight that on this page: http://www.gpleda.org/developer.html the section Build repository version of gEDA/gaf seems to be out-of-date. I don't think item 3: Type: make which will output the required environment variables (...) that must be set before the next step. is still the case, and in Misc Hints, make maint in the top level doesn't work, it needs to be make maintainer-clean. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PANGO FONTS MERGED: Call for testing
Peter Clifton wrote: Hi guys, I just merged the pango font stuff to git HEAD. This is a call for testing, to note any unexpected / undesirable behaviours which this might have introduced. Looks spectacular, Peter, many thanks. Nothing obviously wrong so far. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
2009/8/9 Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk: Does anyone want to help getting a Windows port working (reasonably) smoothly? Has anyone tested a Windows build recently? I could pitch in on that. Good place to start? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA just hit SlashDotOrg
2009/8/9 Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk: If I remember correctly... *searches mail archives* http://www.geda.seul.org/mailinglist/geda-dev126/msg00029.html That's probably a good place to start. OK, I'll have a play. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: doxygen hangs in Ubuntu Jaunty?
2009/7/31 Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de: I don't get hang-ups with debian/squeeze, updated today. What version of doxygen is that? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: doxygen hangs in Ubuntu Jaunty?
2009/7/31 Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de: On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:23:08 +0100, Gareth Edwards wrote: I don't get hang-ups with debian/squeeze, updated today. What version of doxygen is that? doxygen 1.5.9.1 doxygen on Jaunty is 1.5.8, and I've seen a couple of issues reported on it. I'll try building or installing 1.5.9 tonight and report back Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: doxygen hangs in Ubuntu Jaunty?
I've tried it with 1.5.9 and all is good. It's a manifestation of this bug that's causing the problem: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=266693 Thanks, everyone who helped. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: g_list_sort() or local mergesort?
2009/7/20 Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de: Is there any reason stay away from glib functions? I hope not. I've been (slowly) working on refactoring out the gattrib listsort and replacing it with the GList implementation. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem's new pretty menus
2009/6/9 Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk: On Mon, 2009-06-08 at 23:29 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:03:53 +, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Currently the compiler is plowing through the source of libgeda... The built was fine. gschem menus show pretty icons now :-) Looking forward to the moment when glyph fonts hit the main branch. Everything now builds OK for me now (pulling from main git repo). Thanks to all for the prompt attention. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Building gaf from git HEAD
One of my gEDA/gaf installs I haven't updated for a while has fallen to bits after I updated to git HEAD. make reconfig is reporting: configure.ac:14: required file `config.h.in' not found at various places - is this important? make config is then failing at: configure: creating ./config.status config.status: error: cannot find input file: Makefile.in make: *** [libgeda_config] Error 1 which seems as if it might be related. I've tried all combinations of make reconfig, config, clean, maint I can think of. System is Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty running under virtualbox. Thanks in advance for any help Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem's new pretty menus
It looks like this is the same issue i am having. 2009/6/8 Kai-Martin Knaak k...@familieknaak.de: On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:12:55 +0100, Peter Clifton wrote: gschem just got new pretty menus (with some icons). Ok, I did a git clone git://git.gpleda.org/gaf.git Unfortunately, make install yields the dreaded cannot find input file: Makefile.in Same with make config. The output of at stdout doesn't seem to point to something obvious (see below). The file gaf/config.status is empty. Any hint? ---(kaimartin)--- $ make config ( cd libgeda; ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --with-xdgdatadir=/home/ kmk/.local/share --with-kdedatadir=/home/kmk/.kde/share ) Configuring libgeda version 1.5.2.20090328 checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /bin/mkdir -p checking for gawk... gawk checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking for style of include used by make... GNU checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... a.out checking whether the C compiler works... yes checking whether we are cross compiling... no checking for suffix of executables... checking for suffix of object files... o checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... none needed checking dependency style of gcc... gcc3 checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... /bin/grep checking for egrep... /bin/grep -E checking for ANSI C header files... yes checking for sys/types.h... yes checking for sys/stat.h... yes checking for stdlib.h... yes checking for string.h... yes checking for memory.h... yes checking for strings.h... yes checking for inttypes.h... yes checking for stdint.h... yes checking for unistd.h... yes checking minix/config.h usability... no checking minix/config.h presence... no checking for minix/config.h... no checking whether it is safe to define __EXTENSIONS__... yes checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu checking for a sed that does not truncate output... /bin/sed checking for fgrep... /bin/grep -F checking for ld used by gcc... /usr/bin/ld checking if the linker (/usr/bin/ld) is GNU ld... yes checking for BSD- or MS-compatible name lister (nm)... /usr/bin/nm -B checking the name lister (/usr/bin/nm -B) interface... BSD nm checking whether ln -s works... yes checking the maximum length of command line arguments... 805306365 checking whether the shell understands some XSI constructs... yes checking whether the shell understands +=... yes checking for /usr/bin/ld option to reload object files... -r checking for objdump... objdump checking how to recognize dependent libraries... pass_all checking for ar... ar checking for strip... strip checking for ranlib... ranlib checking command to parse /usr/bin/nm -B output from gcc object... ok checking for dlfcn.h... yes checking for objdir... .libs checking if gcc supports -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions... no checking for gcc option to produce PIC... -fPIC -DPIC checking if gcc PIC flag -fPIC -DPIC works... yes checking if gcc static flag -static works... yes checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... yes checking if gcc supports -c -o file.o... (cached) yes checking whether the gcc linker (/usr/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... yes checking whether -lc should be explicitly linked in... no checking dynamic linker characteristics... GNU/Linux ld.so checking how to hardcode library paths into programs... immediate checking whether stripping libraries is possible... yes checking if libtool supports shared libraries... yes checking whether to build shared libraries... yes checking whether to build static libraries... yes checking for gcc... (cached) gcc checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... (cached) yes checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes checking for gcc option to accept ISO C89... (cached) none needed checking dependency style of gcc... (cached) gcc3 checking how to run the C preprocessor... gcc -E checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... (cached) yes checking whether NLS is requested... yes checking for msgfmt... /usr/bin/msgfmt checking for gmsgfmt... /usr/bin/msgfmt checking for xgettext... /usr/bin/xgettext checking for msgmerge... /usr/bin/msgmerge checking whether we are using the GNU C Library 2 or newer... yes checking for ranlib... (cached) ranlib checking for simple visibility declarations... yes checking for inline... inline checking for size_t... yes checking for stdint.h... yes checking for working alloca.h... yes checking for alloca... yes checking for stdlib.h... (cached) yes checking for unistd.h... (cached) yes checking for getpagesize... yes checking for working mmap... yes checking whether integer
Re: gEDA-user: Signal Source Setup for Electric Guitar?
2009/5/12 Joerg joerg...@analogconsultants.com For guitar pickup modelling, you might like to do a bit of Googling on spice model guitar pickup or similar. Yes, that is a very interesting page. This is precisely the kind of thing I'm interested in. I had no idea the capacitance of the cable was so significant. Anyway it looks like their AC generator is using 2mV. So the 20mV value I used to get a good output SIN looks closer to reality which means my model is probably ok. I wish I had a real oscilloscope to find out what my guitar is really putting out but xoscope doesn't seem to produce voltages (but I'm not surprised since the sound card is probably oblivious to such things). Maybe I'll have to get one of those PC oscilloscopes. Unless you are building a pickup, don't get too hung up on modelling it - it's a complex and changing impedance across frequency (stray and interwinding capacitance, leakage inductance, DC resistance etc) and the unit-to-unit variation in impedance and output voltage is large. You've already spotted that cable capacitance plays a part - the tone and volume controls loading the pickup are probably just as important. The trick is to use a high impedance amp front end that isolates the pickup from the rest of the circuit (JFET or, my personal preference/prejudice, a valve triode stage); then you can simplify the pickup model to a simple generator without worrying too much. In my amp work, I use a 100mV pk nominal signal - this is recommended by Kevin O'Conner in his excellent Ultimate Tone series of books: http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=3 However, modelling can only get you in the ballpark of gain staging and frequency response - eventually you have to evaluate with your ears, not with SPICE! If you want to display the waveforms or an FFT spectrum on the PC cheaply you could use an emitter follower as a buffer so the voltage gets transferred 1:1. Then a high input impedance is provided to the guitar even if you connect a sound card. Agreed, guitar into soundcard is sonic disappointment but JFET source follower would be much better. Here's a good one (not mine, but derived from a Win Hill circuit he posted on Usenet): http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/RADELECT/PREJFET/JFETPRE.HTM Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: fritzing-like gEDA? gEDA-like Fritzing? Fritzing-interface-to-gEDA?
2009/5/9 John Doty j...@noqsi.com: There are lots of GUI languages. But the critical thing is defining the project. For that, there's only one candidate: make. There's nothing else that can deal with the declarations, rules, and procedures needed to put together a project using heterogeneous tools. Nothing else except perhaps scons: http://www.scons.org/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: fritzing
2009/5/8 Eric Brombaugh ebrombau...@cox.net: John Griessen wrote: How about the code intensive hardware system developers that start a project with FPGA then migrate it to ASIC? What language do they use -- c++? Typically they'll use a HDL like Verilog or VHDL. Those are generally compatible across FPGAs and ASICs alike. There have been attempts to use C++ for hardware design, but they haven't found their way into the mainstream. Indeed, C/C++ tends to be very domain-specific (usually DSP). I'm sure that will slowly change. and there are plenty of FPGA designs out there that have been completely realised in Matlab. There are newer HDLs starting to find more use though - System Verilog is becoming popular among some of my colleagues. opinionThe penetration of SystemVerilog for Design is fairly limited in my experience - but for verification, it's on a very steep upward curve right now. I still see Verilog as being dominant for the next 5 years./opinion As for the original topic/question, I'm astounded that Tcl hasn't had more of a mention. In my day job, most EDA tools I use day-to-day are built around/have embedded a Tcl interpreter. Scheme is not on the radar. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gattrib hacking (was: Re: libgd -- which programs uses it)
Peter Clifton wrote: The documentation is still probably hideously out of date in other respects though. Talking of which... I've been making a pass through the Doxygen documentation for gattrib in preparation for some changes I've been planning for a while - I haven't touched any code yet though. If anyone is interested in having a look, the changes are on the doxying branch of git://repo.or.cz/geda-gaf/gde.git (browsable at http://repo.or.cz/w/geda-gaf/gde.git). (I'm actually working on the doxyhack branch but my git-fu is not good enough yet to figure out the merge-rebase required to harmonise everything in sync with the main git HEAD) Plan is - finish the doxygen update (soon - this week) - do some minor refactoring to tidy up some things I've spotted in the doxygen phase - do some major refactoring of the internal data structures to allow... - ...the real change I'm driving towards, which is to allow the gattrib sheet to be sorted by any column by clicking on the top (as per usual spreadsheet paradigm) - it would be helpful to me, for example, to see all the parts with the same VALUE grouped together in a sheet for assigning footprints, say. I have no timetable and no grand strategy yet. Stuart, I have a few questions about some of the design of gattrib - is it OK to mail you off-list to discuss? Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB + GL latest (patch for indirect rendering support)
Gareth Edwards wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: Did you use the master branch of my repository, rather then the before_pours one? D'oh. It's the instruction reading blind spot again. Ok, I've built the right branch now and everything seems copasetic. I'll use it for my layout for a while. (One thing I actually liked about your master branch was being able to see where the corners of polygons were, even if they were being trimmed by tracks. I find it really difficult to edit polygons once they are placed if the corners are missing due to track clipping. Am I missing something obvious?) Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB + GL latest (patch for indirect rendering support)
Peter Clifton wrote: Did you use the master branch of my repository, rather then the before_pours one? D'oh. It's the instruction reading blind spot again. Gareth Worlds worst alpha tester. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Doughnut pads in pcb?
Is there a way in PCB to get doughtnut pads for pins and vias rather than solid fills? There is a drill helper in pcb postscript output, see pcb print- or postscript-dialog. Or search for term drill helper in mailing list archive. Thanks, Stefan. I've been so fixated on Gerber export I didn't think to try the postscript output. Cheers Gareth Stefan Salewski wrote: Am Freitag, den 12.12.2008, 18:22 + schrieb gdedwa...@blueyonder.co.uk: Apologies if this has been answered in the archives but my searches haven't thrown anything up (is there a direct search of the mailing list archive available?) You may try Google with site:geda.seul.org searchterm Is there a way in PCB to get doughtnut pads for pins and vias rather than solid fills? In the past, I've used such a thing to assist with hand-drilling - a very small copper-clear area in the middle of a pad will centre the drill nicely if I drill after etching. Getting closer to making that board... There is a drill helper in pcb postscript output, see pcb print- or postscript-dialog. Or search for term drill helper in mailing list archive. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bringing EPS onto a silkscreen
Gareth Edwards wrote: Mark Rages wrote: On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 4:38 PM, gdedwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: I'm having an extremely hard time bringing an EPS logo onto the silk layer in You can work around this by opening both files in a text editor and copying in the silk layer. Ah, i didn't think of that. Thanks, Mark. Just to close the loop: once I'd had a play with the text files I discovered that the logo was being placed *way* off the board and I had to enlarge the board, move the logo and reduce the board again I guess the original EPS coordinates and bounding box contributed to this. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bringing EPS onto a silkscreen
DJ Delorie wrote: pcb has its own tracker on pcb.sourceforge.net Request 2397497 opened on the paste issue. I'm hoping to take a look at it myself once I get this board finished. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
