Re: gEDA-user: plugins (was: How can you help...)
My suggestion is to first create an outline. The first n sections should be in tutorial form, using a small example, and focusing on the main steps, beginning with installation of the tool(s), problem statement (going from schematic to board layout to what needs to shipped to a board house). This section should contain a number of subsections (1-2 pages in length for each subsection) that is a susccinct description of the the task. Related, but not main stream topics can be forward referenced to another section later in the document. For example, making a design from the built in libaraies would be in the first major section, with a forward pointer to a detailed section about how to make your own objects in libaries, and yet another subsection could deal with library management (concepts and approaches, perhaps with one example illustrated - for example, managing libraries on a personal workstation). So, the doc would have two sections: Section 1 - Main tutorial Each subsection in the tutorial would be listed in the outline, so one could read through the outline and see the steps involved in producing a board. Section 2 - Expanded topics referenced in the tutorial Each subsection in this section would address a specific topic referenced in Section 1. Each subsection should be self contained, ie. how to create a symbols, how to manage symbol libraries, etc. Lots of screen shots should be in both sections as appropriate I would be happy to review the outline and the development, and provide feedback. -John On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak [1]k...@familieknaak.de wrote: Abhijit Kshirsagar wrote: Somehow missed this thread and replied on the other one... Count me in for documentation. Please let me know what I can do. I still have to decide, where to start. An overview? A getting started? A HOWTO? A table of contents to be filled? Some of the documentation I have written previously is here: gEDA-Tutorials.pdf on [2]https://sites.google.com/site/abhijit86k/linux/geda Nice. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: [3]k...@familieknaak.de [4]http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 Moderation of geda-user seems to be lifted somewhat, lately. I am still unhappy with it. Why? Because it is completely nontransparent. ___ geda-user mailing list [5]geda-user@moria.seul.org [6]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 2. https://sites.google.com/site/abhijit86k/linux/geda 3. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 4. http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 5. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 6. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA
Very good point! and if I may add: ALL contained in ONE place, sufficiently reviewed to make it 100% correct with the current version of the tool(s) it is intended to be use with (and stated in the document itself). From my experience, ONE person is accepted as the book boss and is responsible for organizing/coordinating the development/revisions of ALL user documentation. I also believe the book boss should have a user perspective, rather than a developer perspective for the user documentation. If developer documentation is to be (re)organized as well, the same oversight model should be used, and I think a developer should have coordination duties. Just my 0.02 (your favorite currency here...USD, pounds, Euros, etc...) -J On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Stefan Salewski [1]m...@ssalewski.de wrote: On Sat, 2011-09-10 at 10:19 +0530, Abhijit Kshirsagar wrote: On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 22:20, Dan Roganti [2]ragoo...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn't say wipeout, from looking at the current state of documentation, there's been a huge amount of work done there. I would suggest just making some additions and editing some parts to bring some attention to all of the important features. +1. There's lots of good documentation, but there are things missing and lots of details need to be added. I think it would be a very good idea to have some collection of documents (or at least link to these). I'm willing to help with the documentation since I do use gEDA regularly (and i'm not much help with the programming). ~Abhijit What we really should consider: A lot of documentation can be bad. Consider the toys from the big company with the damaged fruit: A reason for the success of the toys is that documentations seems to be not needed. A lot of documentation can make people think that it is very complicated. For gEDA/PCB we have collected a lot of documentation over the years -- some is obsolete/outdated/redundant now or covers details, which most people are not interested in -- at least not when starting with gEDA/PCB. Send to geda-user: Sat Sep 10 13:34:27 CEST 2011 ___ geda-user mailing list [3]geda-user@moria.seul.org [4]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:m...@ssalewski.de 2. mailto:ragoo...@gmail.com 3. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 4. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: why some skip KiCAD and gEDA
ditto...although I only used it for one digital board. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Dan Roganti [1]ragoo...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/08/2011 03:24 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: The good part of kicad was, that producing a PCB is easily possible even if you know nothing about the tool. But getting to more advanced features was hard to impossible within the time i tried it. Now comes the catch: When i was a teenager, i did an electronics project in high school. Not having access to the internet and not knowing anything about OSS (i dont think gEDA existed back then), i got a copy of Orcad for DOS (it was ancient even back then). But, within a day i was able to enter my first test schematics and produce something that looked like a PCB yes, OrCad was a very powerful eda tool and to a certain extent quite intuitive. I used this for many years back then. . . . Now the question is, why isn't there any OSS EDA tool out there that combines the availability of complex features with ease of use like Orcad did 20 years ago? I truly believe that you have to take the strict viewpoint of the hardware designers who will be the majority of users -- and not sit back as a programmer --- when it comes to laying out a reasonable User Interface for an EDA Tool. The OrCad tool was a prime example of this. If there were one, i'd be happy to throw money at it, to help it being developed. Attila Kinali I also agree. I would be willing to do the same. I noticed somewhere on the geda website that some arrangement has been made already with Linuxfund.org to help toward this cause. I only see a mention of the PCB tool - and no mention of gSchem or others. I wonder if someone can clarify this here. I think this is one more reason to compile a concise list of features contained in this tool suite as an overview to help new or returning users to see the importance of this project. =Dan ___ geda-user mailing list [2]geda-user@moria.seul.org [3]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:ragoo...@gmail.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
You might want to consider import/export capability for the most widely used commercial product (not sure what that is at the moment). You may want to consider the following as well: 1) An updated tutorial that is accurate (IIRC, last edit is 2007, a bit long in the tooth, not to mention full of errors) 2. Description and verification of a BoM method that works 3. Fix tragsym, and better document how to use it 4. Make sure the tools that your tools require/use do infact interoperate - For example, I recently tried to use Calc (open office equivalent of Excel) and could not find a way to save as text file (tab delimited) option that is required by tragsym 5. Might want to provide a comprehensive and accurate description/document for schematic symbol creation and strongly suggest using that approach. I tried three approaches and the only one that had the shortest learning curve and works was a utube tutorial I found (it was the best I found and not even referenced anywhere in the gscheme website). I understand the 'freedom' to chose one of N ways to do development, or even write your own and hang it out there, but it really needs to work. So, someone followed up one of my posts (I admit it was a bit of a rant) that nothing would make me happywell, actually tools that work according to their usage documentation, and tools that seamlessly interoperate would make me happy. My experience with what I tried clearly does not do this. Once I finally got to generating a PCB I lost my desire to keep forging ahead. The whole deal with m4 libraries versus the others kept nagging at medid I make the 'right' choice? Is this going to somehow screw me in the end? Anyway, I switched to using KiCAD and it was like going from driving a FIAT stick to driving a 911 stick... Why am I saying all this? If someone at CERN who was not to familiar with gEDA picked it up to try and evaluate it, and did the same with KiCAD, and experienced the same problems I did, they would not be impressed, despite the dogma that is perpetuated about not being forced into one design paradigmThe other reason is if someone doesn't provide feedback the developers are going to thing everything is just wonderful. I am trying to provide useful feedback based on my experience. I still 'watch' what is happening here, eventhough I have begun using other tools, mainly because I think the concept is stronger and that it would get better in time. -John On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Peter Clifton [1]pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 20:37 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: sad. Which part? The part where CERN found an open source app they liked, or the part where they're going to contribute to OSS? Sounds like a few spare cycles working on KiCad file-format import / export for our tools might be a wise move if we want them to reconsider after they have tried KiCAD. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: [2]+44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: [3]+44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list [4]geda-user@moria.seul.org [5]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:pc...@cam.ac.uk 2. tel:%2B44%20%280%297729%20980173 3. tel:%2B44%20%280%291223%20748328 4. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 5. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CERN goes for KiCAD
Um, with all due respectI don't consider myself 'simple minded'I am a professional EE, been working in this industry for a 28+ years, and have a few technical advanced degrees.I have both worked in and managed groups of EEs doing state of the art EE research and design. So, while I am not a hard core EDA user, I have used commercial tools from time to time, ranging from schematic capture to all out intricate board spins. I looked at opensource EDA tools perhaps 10- yrs ago, and decided Eagle was a better option. I decided to look again...my first impression about geda: I liked the philosophy (loosely integrated, extensible, multioptioned tool approach). I looked further...a lot of the last revised dates on documents and some tool drops were YEARS - giving the distinct impression of a dead/dormant effort. I polled a few NG that cater to practicing EEs...gEDA feedback was non-existant. Since I needed to get up to speed fairly quickly, I decided to RTFM and try it. While I fully acknowledge the difficulty of producing good documentation, without conveying the mechanics to potential users, you will loose them, guaranteed. (as an aside, that comment smacks of high power, overly clever sw developers who relish that fact they can program anything but can't keep focused on the real requirements). The more I read, the more I figured I had to 'write my own' scripts to do things (after all, if things don't work what else is there to do?). Um, I did not expect that I'd have to do that much additional work to get what I needed. As my attempts to do simple things resulted in trying yet another tool/approach, the frustrations built, productivity went to zero. Another impression, look at the websites of the two tools. One is definitely more polished than the other. That casts a big impression on potential users. If I have to hunt through 6 different websites and then burrow down 4-5 levels to find out the 'better' tutorial or find out how to do a BoM, that is one sure way to put off potential new users. Hmmm, free speech and free beer...I know there is no 'free lunch'...I have contributed to some open source efforts in the past, by way of small how to's, specialized scripts to do things, etc. I even started to 'clean up' the 2006 tutorial as I went along, figuring I'd 'give back'As I progressed, It became clear that it would be a much bigger job than what I had time for. and finally: Smart people seems to have not really big problems with current gEDA state. If you believe that, you are seriously deluding yourselves. I came across posts from two university instructors who gave up using the tools (I would not consider them 'simple minded'). In a nutshell, user frustration got the best of them. I gave one of my summer students the job of trying to use gschem+pcbhe plain gave up b/c of inefficient use of his time. So, while this is a small sample, it may be wise to consider these issues as the project moves forward. OK, well sorry about the critical posts - it is not personal. If I violated protocol, I apologize. Some insightful ppl made some very good observations about the CERN situation...perhaps those observations may lead to changes for the good. On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Stefan Salewski [1]m...@ssalewski.de wrote: Hello John, I am really happy (and a bit of surprised) that critical postings are still allowed for this list. On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 22:07 -0400, John Hudak wrote: You might want to consider import/export capability for the most widely used commercial product (not sure what that is at the moment). Import/Export is fine for all free/open available formats. Unfortunately many important formats are not free, so we would have to do reverse engineering or use confidential leaked documentation. Some of us refuse to do that, including me. An example is the specctre format. You may want to consider the following as well: 1) An updated tutorial that is accurate Yes, to make simple minded people happy we need all that. Smart people seems to have not really big problems with current gEDA state. The problem with simple minded people (like me :-) ) is, that they are consumers (stupid and greedy), with no intention and skills to really contribute. And they do not understand or care about the difference between free speech and free beer. Many of your points are easily to fix even for people with no programming skills, ie. writing new, really fine documentation. But it is hard, boring work, so I do understand that the developers prefer coding. DJ has done it very well with his [2]http://www.delorie.com/pcb/docs/gs/gs.html -- unfortunately some beginners miss
Re: gEDA-user: Foss-pcb Proposed plan from CERN
ummm, I think citing and expounding on the philosophical differences of one approach (integrated) versus another (multiple tool kits) is a nice amorphous description and somewhat akin to mental masturbation. The philosophy of gEDA has already been established. What is more important is that the tool suite *flawlessly* supports a small subset of generally accepted design-fabrication paradigms, eg workflow from schematic to completed populated board, and a subset of potential offshoot efforts such as circuit simulation, head modeling,symbol creation and package creation and management, etc. My premise is that if you put 100 design engineers in a room who have done circuit design to board fab and ask them to produce a scenario of their work flow, at least 40% of them would have a common scenario. So the important questions to ask and answer are: Do you know what the top 2 (or 3) scenarios are? Do you know what the top 2 (or 3) parallel offshoot activities are? How well can those scenarios by fulfilled by the tool chain approach?(Conceptually) How well can those scenarios by fulfilled by the tool chain approach, in reality (e.g do the tools work flawlessly and do they scale?) If someone buys into a certain philosophy and the tool implementation causes them pain, they will search for less painless approaches and adapting ones development scenario is much easier than trying to understand and patching someone bogus code. Another point is don't stick ones head in the sand and start slinging code so that the additions 'do something'Consider 'the other religion' and the possibility that one might want to import a schematic developed in kicad, Altrum, orcad or whatever because PCB is the sexiest thing on earth. One also needs to consider outflow of a design from gEDA to whatever. Make a road map, have a plan, follow the plan and have at it. J On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 1:03 PM, John Doty [1]j...@noqsi.com wrote: On Aug 24, 2011, at 8:33 AM, Jared Casper wrote: I chuckled at what this community would think of the comment, in response to There are users who prefer separate dedicated applications to an integrated design environment., BTW. How many of these users have ever designed a PCB with more than 4 layers and, say, 300 components? From my own experience, above the certain level of PCB complexity the intuitiveness and efficiency of the GUI become a paramount. I think that's exactly backwards. The intuitiveness and efficiency of the GUI make for comfort, but not productivity. In a big design, the key is to break it down into modules, and then use the automation to put the modules together. This is especially true when you recognize that a big design encompasses not just EDA, but documentation, software, and possibly other things. The toolkit approach allows you to combine these things in a maximally automated flow. I've seen the difference starkly in software. I personally don't care what tools a programmer uses as long as they get the job done: this should be a matter of individual preference. Except, it is my experience that programmers who prefer toolkits are much more productive than programmers who prefer IDE. They plan better, they factor better, and they exploit the power of the computer better. One serious problem is that IDE encourages very inefficient debugging practices: it's much better to trap bugs with assertions, logs, and analysis than to fish for bugs interactively. Yes, it takes more thought and planning to use a toolkit. For simple jobs, a nice intuitive GUI is fine (I'm typing this to the Mac Mail app). But planning is more important for big jobs, and a toolkit rewards planning better. Spending time to adapt your processes to the job is a big time saver for big jobs. A flexible, extensible, toolkit is especially superior for jobs that have characteristics that fall outside the limits of the application designers' imaginations. Try exporting KiCad designs to a computer algebra system for symbolic analysis (but the Mathematica back end for gnetlist only took me an afternoon to write). The important thing to recognize is that there is room for, and a need for, both toolkits and integrated tools. AWK and spreadsheets are both effective at processing tabular data in their own ways, but a merged tool with the characteristics of both would be incomprehensible. I think the same is true in EDA. It is my opinion that gEDA's developers and users should embrace its strengths as a powerful, flexible toolkit. Keep the tools separate. Keep the interfaces clean and simple. Maximize the rewards that those who can do a little scripting can earn. Let KiCad cover the integrated app space. It
Re: gEDA-user: Foss-pcb Proposed plan from CERN
dont ya love moderated lists? lol on a more serious note, yes, a path from altium would be huge, but in all honesty, having tools that work and inter-operate would be much better. After playing with KiCAD for a bit, they have a very nice integrated tool suite that all works...and it has import (and export?) for packages like Eagle, and it runs on different OSs, quite nicely. No offense, but from all the stuff I've read from the gEDA base, various blog postings, and freelance how-tos, a common topic that always seems to come up is that with these tools and a knowledge of scripting languages, one can do just about anything. Well, pardon my bluntness, but, I've forgotten more scripting languages than I know, and I don't necessarily want to learn another one to make gEDA tools work for me. You are severely limiting your adoption base if you make this as a pre-requisite for user satisfaction. As developers, you may be enamored with your coding cleverness and undocumented design decisions, but from a user perspective, you lost them from download and then make. and then use these magic scripts whos only hint of functionality is in the name From what the folks at CERN seem to be asking, I think gEDA is, in many respects a long way from providing it. If one is going to make the upgrade effort worth it, one has to know their strengths and weaknesses. I could be wrong in my point of view, as I haven't pushed a board out to completeness, however the challenges I've encountered along the way have been quite surprising. -J On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak [1]k...@familieknaak.de wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: Even conversion of old legacy Altium designs could be done given access ^ Is this a serious restriction? Would it be possible for a user of a current altium license to export to this old legacy format? to known sample files and developer time (e.g. money). I was working on a funded project to reverse engineer those file-format at while back, and the only reason it has stalled so far is a lack of my time. The formats aren't so bad to understand once you've had some luck figuring out the binary compression scheme. A transition path from altium to geda would be huge! How far did you advance on this road? ---)kaimartin(--- PS: Why did none of my todays posts hit the list, yet? (While others seem to have no problem to get through within minutes) -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: [2]k...@familieknaak.de [3]http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 increasingly unhappy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [4]geda-user@moria.seul.org [5]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 2. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 3. http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 4. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 5. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Has anyone in this group seriously used KiCAD?
On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Colin D Bennett [1]co...@gibibit.com wrote: On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 11:55:31 -0400 John Hudak [2]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: Pros/cons? and please, no philosphy about integrated vs independent tools...I am interested in aspects such as what things work? what doesn't? user experiences such as strengths and weakness (again actual/functional and not philosophy) I've not seriously used it, but I was just today frustrated when I tried to download and open the Maple Mini KiCad project ([1]) and my KiCad version (from Ubuntu 11.04 repositories) says the layout and schematic files are unrecognized types. More specifically, trying to open the .brd file says Unknown file type and trying to open the schematic says file.sch is NOT an EESchema file! See screenshot at [2]. A version incompatibility? Maybe, but you would hope KiCad would at least tell the user that the file is the wrong version, rather than such cryptic errors. User error? Maybe, but how hard can it be to open a board file or schematic file? Oh another note, I like how gEDA puts its symbols and footprints in separate files -- it is great for version control and for browsing/searching with standard file management tools or directly on a GitHub repository view, etc. Regards, Colin References -- [1] Maple Mini schematics and layout [3]https://github.com/leaflabs/maplemini. [2] Screen shots of attempting to open Maple Mini schematic with KiCad. [4]http://gibibit.com/upload/2011-08-19_KiCad_MapleMini_error.png ___ geda-user mailing list [5]geda-user@moria.seul.org [6]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user Oh another note, I like how gEDA puts its symbols and footprints in separate files -- it is great for version control and for browsing/searching with standard file management tools or directly on a GitHub repository view, etc. So does KiCAD, separate files for symbols and footprints. -J References 1. mailto:co...@gibibit.com 2. mailto:jjhu...@gmail.com 3. https://github.com/leaflabs/maplemini 4. http://gibibit.com/upload/2011-08-19_KiCad_MapleMini_error.png 5. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 6. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:40 PM, John Doty [1]j...@noqsi.com wrote: On Aug 18, 2011, at 4:05 PM, John Hudak wrote: So, this causes me to ask the question: Why hasen't gattrib been removed from:[3][2]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gaf as well as any other instances? Perhaps because some of us use it. While the concept is good, the implementation is worthless, and apparently has been 'around' with the same sort of problems since 2006. It's useful for touch up of a few attributes, but not for the broad changes you want. The spreadsheet approach really doesn't scale well anyway. If you have 300 bypass capacitors in a project, it's much more efficient to have a heavy project-specific bypass capacitor symbol with all of the necessary attributes inside it. Then, to change your bypass capacitor selection, you need only edit that one symbol rather than 300 instances. Unfortunately, gattrib is an orphan: its developer is no longer active on the gEDA project. So, although it remains useful within its limits, nobody is fixing its bugs. Do you wish to volunteer? As a person who is trying to give the gEDA approach a try, frustrations mount daily in trying to make progress. There is no gEDA approach. There are many gEDA approaches. gEDA is a toolkit, not an integrated tool. If you expect it to lead you down some specific usage pathway you will be disappointed. Part of the game is adapting it to the flow your job needs. Its power is that you *can* adapt it to *your* needs: you aren't stuck with an approach that doesn't fit those needs. This brings up another issue that I am curious aboutthe one of component symbol libraries. My expectation (hope, guess?) was with an effort that is open source, users would contribute their symbols to the library, User-contributed symbols are available at [3]gedasymbols.org. and the symbol library would be huge. I didn't find that reality. I assumed this because users would 'giveback' to the community. Clearly some have done this. I plan on doing this (if I continue down this path). So why hasen't the component mfgs been inclined to develop and contribute symbols? Why hasen't the users contributed more? I think it's partly because symbols are often specialized to a particular project or approach. Perhaps there are not too many users. Perhaps it is a case of: The tools have been built but the users are not comming.Anyway, just curious Well, if you go to my area at [4]gedasymbols.org, you'll find symbols for VLSI design and symbolic circuit analysis. Those won't work for pcb. But they're useful for their intended purposes. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. [5]http://www.noqsi.com/ [6]j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list [7]geda-user@moria.seul.org [8]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user There is no gEDA approach. There are many gEDA approaches. gEDA is a toolkit, not an integrated tool. If you expect it to lead you down some specific usage pathway you will be disappointed. Part of the game is adapting it to the flow your job needs. Its power is that you *can* adapt it to *your* needs: you aren't stuck with an approach that doesn't fit those needs. With all due respect, I have read/heard this philosophy a number of times. I don't expect and never have expected to be lead anywhere. If one reads the [9]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gaf website, there is a clear impression that these tools can work together in some fashion. That fashion is dictated by what ever the users end goal is. This strongly implies a lot of 'flexibility', which means that the tools have been tested for interopeability. There is, however, a very clear statement about one tool using another tools output, performing some function, and perhaps generating output that can be used by the upstream tool or downstream tool. If this funtionality does not work, and even go so far as to corrupt either the input file or the resultant output file, then, quite simply, the tool is worthless. (Which makes me wonder why anyone would use a flakey tool to do anything to something they have spent so much time developing at the risk of having it broken/destroyed). As far a spreadsheet approach scaling well, I also beg to differ. A simple global substitute on a unique string will fix the probem. Even a global search with selective substitution will be more efficient
gEDA-user: Has anyone in this group seriously used KiCAD?
Pros/cons? and please, no philosphy about integrated vs independent tools...I am interested in aspects such as what things work? what doesn't? user experiences such as strengths and weakness (again actual/functional and not philosophy) Thanks John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Joshua [1]jos...@laserlinc.com wrote: I agree with Delorie. I also was only making slow progress with gattrib. I found the copy and paist functionality limited and strange. I also was confronted with the add column bug. If I remember correctly it corrupted my files when it shifted the properties from one heading to the next. That is why I started exporting to a oocalc. Then I was able to get a lot more work done as oocalc is a refined product. I hadn't found the sch2csv or csv2sch scripts at that time and thus made my own version called gattrib_csv. Not only have I been able to edit the properties en-mass, but I have also been able to import data generated by other users provided as xls files. I now use the one and the same tool to generate the bill of materials for the project as I do to edit the properties. [2]http://public.laserlinc.com/Joshua/gattrib_csv.java compiled by gcj --main=gattrib_csv -o gattrib_csv gattrib_csv.java Yes, the functionality of those (DJ Delorie) scripts (from what little I have been able to find that describes what they do), seem to fit the attribute edit and BoM generation requirements very nicely. I hope I can say the same after I try them out. So, this causes me to ask the question: Why hasen't gattrib been removed from:[3]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gaf as well as any other instances? While the concept is good, the implementation is worthless, and apparently has been 'around' with the same sort of problems since 2006. As a person who is trying to give the gEDA approach a try, frustrations mount daily in trying to make progress. This brings up another issue that I am curious aboutthe one of component symbol libraries. My expectation (hope, guess?) was with an effort that is open source, users would contribute their symbols to the library, and the symbol library would be huge. I didn't find that reality. I assumed this because users would 'giveback' to the community. Clearly some have done this. I plan on doing this (if I continue down this path). So why hasen't the component mfgs been inclined to develop and contribute symbols? Why hasen't the users contributed more? Perhaps there are not too many users. Perhaps it is a case of: The tools have been built but the users are not comming.Anyway, just curious -John References 1. mailto:jos...@laserlinc.com 2. http://public.laserlinc.com/Joshua/gattrib_csv.java 3. http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:gaf ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
Perhaps I have not progress through the development cycle far enough, but, it there a way generate a bill of materials (BoM) from gschem and/or PCB? In my readings I have not come across reference to BoMs. I am thinking that one could be made by specifying the BoM headings of interest (which would be the desired attributes from gschem) in a BoM template file, have a program comb through the components in gschem and create a csv file suitable for Excel to use. Along these lines, are there program provisions in gschem and/or pcb that allows one to create user define attributes for a component? (e.g. component supplier, pointer to relevant documentation such as an app note, or even a note attribute). Again, thank you for your feedback John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
oops, I forgot that in my original post: gEDA : GPL Electronic Design Automation This is gattrib -- gEDA's attribute editor Gattrib version: 1.6.1.20100214 -J On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Andy Fierman [1]andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: What version of gattrib are you using? I opened a bug report on SourceForge about what seems to be the same problem back in 2009: Bugs item #2793743, was opened at 2009-05-19 11:18 The version of gattrib I was using then was 1.4.0.20080127 from the Debian lenny repos. I don't know if that bug report can still be accessed since the SourceForge Tracker had been disabled: [2]https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=818426aid=2793 743group_id=161080 Sorry, knowledge buffer now empty. Andy. [3]signality.co.uk On 17 August 2011 15:40, John Hudak [4]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: Very cool, thank you! So, I tried itand it produced output that was not expected, and I would go so far as to say that it is wrong. Attached is a jpg file of how the original attribute-component matrix looks like. Then I do an Add attribute column and I get the result shown in modified attribute pic... Ummm, I expected to see a blank column with my designated heading appended to the right of the existing column. What I got was my new column PREPENDED before the last column, and populated with the contents of the original last column. So what did I do wrong?!? John On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Andy Fierman [1][5]andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: Hi John, Sounds like you've not yet found this: [2][6]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gnetlist I know, netlist isn't necessarily the first search term that comes to mind when looking for info on how to generate a BoM ... See also: [3][7]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-attribs Cheers, Andy. [4][8]signality.co.uk On 17 August 2011 13:24, John Hudak [5][9]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps I have not progress through the development cycle far enough, but, it there a way generate a bill of materials (BoM) from gschem and/or PCB? In my readings I have not come across reference to BoMs. I am thinking that one could be made by specifying the BoM headings of interest (which would be the desired attributes from gschem) in a BoM template file, have a program comb through the components in gschem and create a csv file suitable for Excel to use. Along these lines, are there program provisions in gschem and/or pcb that allows one to create user define attributes for a component? (e.g. component supplier, pointer to relevant documentation such as an app note, or even a note attribute). Again, thank you for your feedback John ___ geda-user mailing list [6][10]geda-user@moria.seul.org [7][11]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [8][12]geda-user@moria.seul.org [9][13]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:[14]andyfier...@signality.co.uk 2. [15]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gnetlist 3. [16]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-attribs 4. [17]http://signality.co.uk/ 5. mailto:[18]jjhu...@gmail.com 6. mailto:[19]geda-user@moria.seul.org 7. [20]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 8. mailto:[21]geda-user@moria.seul.org 9. [22]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [23]geda-user@moria.seul.org [24]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [25]geda-user@moria.seul.org [26]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:andyfier...@signality.co.uk 2. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=818426aid=2793743group_id=161080 3. http://signality.co.uk/ 4. mailto:jjhu...@gmail.com 5. mailto:andyfier...@signality.co.uk 6. http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gnetlist 7. http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-attribs 8. http://signality.co.uk/ 9. mailto:jjhu...@gmail.com 10. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 11. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 12. mailto:geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
oh, and I should probably add this: Ubuntu 10.10, Maverick Meerkat - released in October 2010 Running under Virtual Box: 4.0.4 r70112 J On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:25 AM, John Hudak [1]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: oops, I forgot that in my original post: gEDA : GPL Electronic Design Automation This is gattrib -- gEDA's attribute editor Gattrib version: 1.6.1.20100214 -J On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Andy Fierman [2]andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: What version of gattrib are you using? I opened a bug report on SourceForge about what seems to be the same problem back in 2009: Bugs item #2793743, was opened at 2009-05-19 11:18 The version of gattrib I was using then was 1.4.0.20080127 from the Debian lenny repos. I don't know if that bug report can still be accessed since the SourceForge Tracker had been disabled: [3]https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=818426aid=2793 743group_id=161080 Sorry, knowledge buffer now empty. Andy. [4]signality.co.uk On 17 August 2011 15:40, John Hudak [5]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: Very cool, thank you! So, I tried itand it produced output that was not expected, and I would go so far as to say that it is wrong. Attached is a jpg file of how the original attribute-component matrix looks like. Then I do an Add attribute column and I get the result shown in modified attribute pic... Ummm, I expected to see a blank column with my designated heading appended to the right of the existing column. What I got was my new column PREPENDED before the last column, and populated with the contents of the original last column. So what did I do wrong?!? John On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Andy Fierman [1][6]andyfier...@signality.co.uk wrote: Hi John, Sounds like you've not yet found this: [2][7]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gnetlist I know, netlist isn't necessarily the first search term that comes to mind when looking for info on how to generate a BoM ... See also: [3][8]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-attribs Cheers, Andy. [4][9]signality.co.uk On 17 August 2011 13:24, John Hudak [5][10]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps I have not progress through the development cycle far enough, but, it there a way generate a bill of materials (BoM) from gschem and/or PCB? In my readings I have not come across reference to BoMs. I am thinking that one could be made by specifying the BoM headings of interest (which would be the desired attributes from gschem) in a BoM template file, have a program comb through the components in gschem and create a csv file suitable for Excel to use. Along these lines, are there program provisions in gschem and/or pcb that allows one to create user define attributes for a component? (e.g. component supplier, pointer to relevant documentation such as an app note, or even a note attribute). Again, thank you for your feedback John ___ geda-user mailing list [6][11]geda-user@moria.seul.org [7][12]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [8][13]geda-user@moria.seul.org [9][14]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:[15]andyfier...@signality.co.uk 2. [16]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-gnetlist 3. [17]http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:faq-attribs 4. [18]http://signality.co.uk/ 5. mailto:[19]jjhu...@gmail.com 6. mailto:[20]geda-user@moria.seul.org 7. [21]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 8. mailto:[22]geda-user@moria.seul.org 9. [23]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [24]geda-user@moria.seul.org [25]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [26]geda-user@moria.seul.org [27]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:jjhu...@gmail.com 2. mailto:andyfier...@signality.co.uk 3. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=818426aid=2793743group_id=161080 4. http://signality.co.uk/ 5. mailto:jjhu...@gmail.com 6. mailto:andyfier...@signality.co.uk 7. http
Re: gEDA-user: Layer button backgrounds
However you change the buttons, please ensure that it is VERY obvious what selection is made/mode it is currently in. I've seen far to many sw products where pushing a button to engage some action or select a mode failed to notify the user (either noticeable visual change, audio sound, or both) as to the state of the system. there were some cases when the change was so slight that it was almost impossible to see the change. -J On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Colin D Bennett [1]co...@gibibit.com wrote: On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:48:48 +0200 Felix Ruoff [2]fe...@posaunenmission.de wrote: I personally like the new style you created. Its very nice! I think the reason for adding this small rectangles is, that its easier to see, if the button is pressed. Good point. I do like the full color fill you show, Andrew. However, I think we need a better way of indicating which layers are visible. Perhaps a little X or checkbox icon on the button? I already dislike the current buttons' indication of which layers are visible (change of fill color and text color with inset or outset border). Maybe something better can be done. Regards, Colin Am 18.08.2011 04:00, schrieb Andrew Poelstra: Hey all, I am working on moving the Gtk layer-selector into its own widget (see bug 699482, for example), and cleaning up the code. A question I have for the group is: why are the backgrounds of the layer buttons in little rectangles? Is there opposition to making the background fill the whole buttons, like so?: [3]http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/buttons.png It would simplify the code a bit and IMHO looks more modern. There is a bit of an optical illusion making the new buttons seem bigger, but I checked in gimp and there is no change in size. ___ geda-user mailing list [4]geda-user@moria.seul.org [5]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:co...@gibibit.com 2. mailto:fe...@posaunenmission.de 3. http://wpsoftware.net/andrew/dump/buttons.png 4. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 5. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Creating bill of materials?
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:50 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak [1]k...@familieknaak.de wrote: Andy Fierman wrote: I don't know if that bug report can still be accessed since the SourceForge Tracker had been disabled: [2]https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=818426aid=2793743 group_id=161080 All bugs have been imported to launchpad. This particular report got number #698608 : [3]https://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+bug/698608 Unfortunately, nothing has been done about it. It was still listed as new some minutes ago. The faulty behavior shows in my install, too. So I changed the status to confirmed. gattrib seems to be a bit neglected by developers. It feels more like a proof of concept than like a powerful tool. In my humble opinion, it would be better export/import to a spread sheet application like oocalc or gnumeric. This would avoind reinventing lots of wheels. If anything special is needed within the spread sheet, oocalc comes with full fledged scripting ability... ---)kaimartin(--- PS: Would you guys mind not to top-post? Consider this: A: You're wrong Q: I'v never found that to be true A: Because it makes following messages more difficult Q: Why is top-posting evil? -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: [4]k...@familieknaak.de [5]http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user I think the concept of import/exporting into a spreadsheet program is an approach worthy of consideration as well. I had Excel in mind when I made my initial observations about the program. Since the gattribute capability seems to have been untouched for a long time, this further supports that what ever is done to fix it, should rely on tools that have good and sustained development efforts sustaining it. J References 1. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 2. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=818426aid=2793743group_id=161080 3. https://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+bug/698608 4. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 5. http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: personal component library frustration-HELP/suggestions please?
Thank you Stephen. When you say 'others rely on them'..Why do they rely on them? I get the feeling that there is some feature or property that some ppl find important enough to use them (over the other libraries). My first attempt at creating symbols is with DJboxsym. It was successful but the second two bullet points at the website made for more questions without answers that could possibly throw up roadblocks further down the road: 1. symbols are in my compromise' format..u HOW compromised? What is compromised? 2. No DRC support (use my sym2/csv2sym programs for that). What the heck is DRC (not spelled out anywhere - first rule in writing a document that I learned in grade school was ALWAYS spell out an acronym the first time it is used), and now I need another special program that does what??? And how does it alter the route to attaining my goal?? As an enduser, I personally don't care if it is written in perl, python, pascal, smalltalk, lisp, algol68 or Cray Fortran. As a developer, it may be important. As a result, thinking that there is something 'non-native' in this approach, I looked for others. BTW, the link does not work - Wireshark informs me that the route is established but does not respond..time out error. -John On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Stephen Ecob [1]silicon.on.inspirat...@gmail.com wrote: Hi John, On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:24 AM, John Hudak [2]jjhu...@gmail.com wrote: I always add the options skip-m4 and use-files because I don't want any of the M4 generated footprints, ever. But this may be due to personal prejudice. This brings up another issue I am havingAs a neophyte to this tool set (but not to EDA tools in general), what is the deal with m4 files? I've read through a lot of stuff in this area, dating from 2003 through now, and I still don't know if m4 files are good/bad? to be used/avoided? I'd guess the majority of the community don't use it, but there are certainly some who rely on it. I am attempting to put a EDA workbench together in a reasonably integrated way. Part of this is to create a (local) big symbol library so that it can be used and managed. What I don't want to do is grab component and footprint libraries that are old, brittle, or cause gschem or PCB to die. From my perspective, all of the inconsistent information is very confusing. Quite simply, where is the 'best' symbol and footprint library and the best way to create compatible symbols and footprints? Sorry, there is no agreed 'best' way. Various members of the community use the tools in widely varying ways. The tools are flexible enough to work well for for applications ranging from AC power wiring looms to ASIC layout. (After going through 3 different methods of generating symbols, it seems that creating one graphically within gschem is the one least laden with holes...true?) I sometimes use that method, but my current work is with FPGAs and I find the best way for making the symbols I need is DJboxsym: [3]http://vivara.net/cgi-bin/djboxsym.cgi This tool is very convenient for my FPGA work, but when I'm working with BJTs, FETs, diodes and triacs I use the graphical route. Stephen Ecob Silicon On Inspiration Sydney Australia [4]www.sioi.com.au ___ geda-user mailing list [5]geda-user@moria.seul.org [6]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:silicon.on.inspirat...@gmail.com 2. mailto:jjhu...@gmail.com 3. http://vivara.net/cgi-bin/djboxsym.cgi 4. http://www.sioi.com.au/ 5. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 6. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: personal component library frustration-HELP/suggestions please?
I've created two directories in my home directory to store symbol files that I create, and another directory to store footprints I create: /home/jjh/project/component_symbols /home/jjh/project/component_footprints How do I modify gschem to look in my home directory for symbols AS WELL AS THE DEFAULT symbol directory? e.g I want my symbol directory in my user directory to appear in the Select Component component selection window. If you have a suggestion on how to organise this in a better way, please let me know, and also tell me how to implement it. gschem v 1.6.1.20100214 Thanks much John ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: personal component library frustration-HELP/suggestions please?
I always add the options skip-m4 and use-files because I don't want any of the M4 generated footprints, ever. But this may be due to personal prejudice. This brings up another issue I am havingAs a neophyte to this tool set (but not to EDA tools in general), what is the deal with m4 files? I've read through a lot of stuff in this area, dating from 2003 through now, and I still don't know if m4 files are good/bad? to be used/avoided? I am attempting to put a EDA workbench together in a reasonably integrated way. Part of this is to create a (local) big symbol library so that it can be used and managed. What I don't want to do is grab component and footprint libraries that are old, brittle, or cause gschem or PCB to die. From my perspective, all of the inconsistent information is very confusing. Quite simply, where is the 'best' symbol and footprint library and the best way to create compatible symbols and footprints? (After going through 3 different methods of generating symbols, it seems that creating one graphically within gschem is the one least laden with holes...true?) Thanks to all who replied to my previous questions. J On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak [1]k...@familieknaak.de wrote: John Hudak wrote: I've created two directories in my home directory to store symbol files that I create, and another directory to store footprints I create: /home/jjh/project/component_symbols /home/jjh/project/component_footprints How do I modify gschem to look in my home directory for symbols AS WELL AS THE DEFAULT symbol directory? This is easier than not using the default lib at all. For gschem and gsch2pcb put the following lines in your user gafrc: /--- $HOME/.gEDA/gafrc ;(reset-component-library) ; don't use system symbols ;(reset-source-library) ; don't use system location for subcircuits ; Allow to source symbols from the current working directory (define current-working-directory .) (component-library current-working-directory symbols in project dir) (source-library current-working-directory) ; Allow to source symbols from the local copy of geda-symbols (define symbols FULL-PATH-TO-YOUR-SYMBOL-DIR) (component-library symbols) ; In case you have symbols in subdirs you can build additional paths on ; the fly. This example is for symbols/analog/diode (component-library (build-path symbols analog diode)) ; This statement makes gschem automatically enter subdirs: (component-library-search symbols) \-- To make gsch2pcb find your footprints, add the following to your project file: /-- YOUR-PROJECT.g2p --- schematics YOUR-PROJECT.sch output-name YOUR-PROJECT elements-dir FULL-PATH-TO-THE-DIR-BELOW-THE_DIRS-THAT-CONTAIN-YOUR-FOOTPRINTS \--- I always add the options skip-m4 and use-files because I don't want any of the M4 generated footprints, ever. But this may be due to personal prejudice. To get your footprints in the PCB chooser edit the library line in $HOME.pcb/preferences while there is no instnce of PCB running: library-newlib = FULL-PATH-TO-THE-DIR-ETC:./footprints:. Note, that unlike with gschem/gnetlist, you have to provide the Dir below the dir that actually contains the footprints. If you have a suggestion on how to organise this in a better way, please let me know, and also tell me how to implement it. IMHO, your set-up is perfectly fine :-) Hope, this helps. ---)kaiamrtin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: [2]k...@familieknaak.de [3]http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 not happy with moderation of geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [4]geda-user@moria.seul.org [5]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 2. mailto:k...@familieknaak.de 3. http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 4. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 5. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: personal component library frustration-HELP/suggestions please?
So, let me paraphrase what I think you said: I create (or use) one m4 template (either symbol or footprint), that is 'generic' and when I want to instantiate that template in gschem I can add/specify additional properties, i.e. #pins, signal direction, etc. ?? Sort of like the schematic contains a reference to the generic component, and the gschem contains the additional properties associated with the component and when gschem 'combines them' it produces the desired graphic on the screen. T/F?? If that is the case, I can see how (as one person stated) if I try to invoke gschem to see a schematic in which the base objects are referenced (and not contained in the file), and it cant find the referenced library, the whole thing falls apart.(unless once the schematic is generated, it does contain all the drawing information but in a form that cannot be edited, unless the reference to the generic component can be made). I still don't get it...so for a neophite to this tool, should I use them or not? I guess I could make that decision if I knew the pros and cons of the approach. Is this layed out somewhere in a single document? Thanks again for your guidance patience. -John On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 6:50 PM, DJ Delorie [1]d...@delorie.com wrote: This brings up another issue I am havingAs a neophyte to this tool set (but not to EDA tools in general), what is the deal with m4 files? They're dynamically generated (M4 is a parser). So, you create one M4 template for a, say, DIP part, and then you can ask for any DIPN footprint and it generates one with the right number of pins. In theory. In practice, we list all the pin counts we use, but it does mean that all the DIPN footprints are one pattern, all the SOJN are one, all TQFPN are one, etc. ___ geda-user mailing list [2]geda-user@moria.seul.org [3]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:d...@delorie.com 2. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 3. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: tragesym error - help please!
Hi Werner: Thank you for pointing out the error, however, I am using Open Office and from what I can see, there is no way to save as text. In open office, if I say File-Save As, the options are: Text CSV, with options to change the Character set (Unicode UTF8 is the default), Field Delimiter, options are , ; : tab space, and Text Delimiter, options are: ' I tried Field delimiters of: tab and space, with text delimiter options of and ' (all combinations), and none of them worked. I looked at M$ Excel (2007) and it indeed has the save as text file (tab delimited) option (I did not try this approach. (I found this somewhat strange in that using open sources tools to construct the symbols would not have the proper format (e.g. open office spreadsheet) but M$ Excel does. ) I did copy the open office spreadsheet file into gedit, saved it, and it worked. Thank you! John On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Werner Hoch [1]werner...@gmx.de wrote: Hi John, On Samstag, 13. August 2011, John Hudak wrote: The file is attached. Thank you for taking the time to look at it. The cells in the csv-file has a comma s seperator. tragesym expects a tab as seperator. You should use save as txt and not save as csv. It's the step5 in the tutorial: [2]http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:tragesym_tutorial BTW, there is an error in the tragesym error statement...It should be 'attribute' and not 'attribut'...hey, i should be lucky I even get this much..lol It's just a typo or missing translation (attribute in english is Attribut in german). Regards Werner ___ geda-user mailing list [3]geda-user@moria.seul.org [4]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:werner...@gmx.de 2. http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:tragesym_tutorial 3. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 4. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: tragesym error - help please!
So I follow the tutorial on creating a gschem symbol ([1]http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:tragesym_tutorial), get the .ods template from [2]http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/_media/tragesym:template2.ods, fill it in with my data, save it as .csv and execute: tragesym foo.csv foo.sch and I keep getting: error: version attribut missing So, I repeat the process, and I only enter in 8 pins, and the data fields shown in the tutorial. I get the same error...wtf? The version number is clearly in the field in the .ods and .csv files, soany help is appreciated. BTW, there is an error in the tragesym error statement...It should be 'attribute' and not 'attribut'...hey, i should be lucky I even get this much..lol John References 1. http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:tragesym_tutorial 2. http://www.geda.seul.org/wiki/_media/tragesym:template2.ods ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Version compatibility between gschem and PCB
I came across an board layout file that requires a newer version of PCB than I have installed. My version of PCB is 20091103. If I upgrade to the most recent version of PCB, will it be able to interoperate with gschem 1.6.1.20100214? Also, a clarification of terminology for me is needed. The PCB website ([1]http://pcb.gpleda.org/) lists a number of 'snapshots'..are these beta releases or are they the most recent releases for distribution? Another related question. I am running gschem and PCB under Ubuntu 10.10, Maverick Meerkat. Are there any issues in upgrading PCB for this version of Ubuntu? I guess a related question is where can I find the most recent package release of gEDA for this version of Ubuntu. Thank you for your help. -John References 1. http://pcb.gpleda.org/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Automatically start wire placement when you press the hotkey?
Ditto John 2011/8/11 yamazakir2 [1]yamazak...@gmail.com I agree, magnetic mode is an instant disable for me everytime I install gschem On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 7:38 AM, John Doty [2]j...@noqsi.com wrote: On Aug 11, 2011, at 5:48 AM, Krzysztof Kościuszkiewicz wrote: Author: Peter Clifton [3]pc...@cam.ac.uk This allows magnetic net mode to be used for the start-point of a net as well as its end-point, whilst still being able to initiate net drawing with the n key. No, please, no. Magnetic net mode is a misfeature as far as I'm concerned: I always disable it. It's extremely prone to changing its mind in the milliseconds between the time I decide to click the mouse and the time I actually click it. And it never routes a net in a sensible way, so I mostly find myself holding down control when using it, so I can add midpoints in the right places. The gschem UI is very efficient with its single key switch modes *and* start an action single-key accelerators. Please keep these intact. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. [4]http://www.noqsi.com/ [5]j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list [6]geda-user@moria.seul.org [7]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list [8]geda-user@moria.seul.org [9]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:yamazak...@gmail.com 2. mailto:j...@noqsi.com 3. mailto:pc...@cam.ac.uk 4. http://www.noqsi.com/ 5. mailto:j...@noqsi.com 6. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 7. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user 8. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 9. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
