Re: gEDA-user: Symbol submission
On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 08:51:10AM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: If I won't be able to submit through the old mechanism I won't probably submit anymore. gedasymbols.org are just too complicated for me. Once it's set up, it's far *simpler* to contribute through gedasymbols. What I did is point at my gedasymbols tree for my live symbol and footprint libraries, so the directory I'm editing and creating symbols in, *is* the gedasymbols directory. I just type cvs commit when I want to push it out to the web server. Surely you can type cvs commit? Besides, Karel, you've never even asked for an account on gedasymbols, so how do you know what the process is like? You should at least *try* it before you tell everyone how bad it is. From the fact that it is an account I know there will be one more annoying password. That means finding the paper where it is written every time I need to commit. My brain passowrd storage area is already exhausted. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: licensing (GPL or otherwise) for hardware?
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 11:51:27AM -0800, Stephen Williams wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:56:53PM -0800, Stephen Williams wrote: Michael Sokolov wrote: On some rare occasions a paid client will have me develop some piece of software or firmware that would actually have value to humanity. On those rare occasions I always ensure that the work gets open-sourced, if necessary without the client's knowledge. Other times I use my clients' ignorance of the precise terms of the GPL and other free software licenses and make them believe that they have to open-source the kernel module I wrote for example, even if they really don't have to. I believe deceiving for a material profit is a criminal act, but deceiving for a public benefit is not illegal. I talked about deception. Well, where I live (USA) theft is theft, no matter what the motive. If I rob a bank and give all the money to a church or a charity, I'm still going to jail. This is an example of theft, not deception. And if I steal the source code to Microsoft Windows XP and publish it on the net for all to see and download, I'm still in big trouble (as I should be) no matter how noble the intent. This is an example of copyright infringement, not deception. And if I sign a non-disclosure agreement to gain access to intellectual property, then turn around and publish it in the public domain against the clear terms of an agreement *that I signed*, I would surely expect that the owner of that IP has cause for redress. This is an example of breaking a contract, not a deception. CL This is degenerating into a flame-fest. Let's hurry up with the Godwin and get it over with. Anybody? -- Steve WilliamsThe woods are lovely, dark and deep. steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep, http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep, http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: licensing (GPL or otherwise) for hardware?
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 08:09:07PM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize that open source is a religious matter for some, but guess what: I work for a living. Guess what, I do too, albeit doing firmware, board bring-up, drivers, BSD and Linux ports, etc. rather than hardware design. In the vast majority of cases the software/firmware work I get paid to do is totally worthless crap that no one in the free world in his right mind would want to use even if it was free -- simply because the kind of requirements that management likes to impose in the paid world are the antithesis of what is considered technical quality in the free world. The management has figured out what people pay for and what they don't pay for. In other words, the value to humanity of most of my paid work is zero. No - the humanity would be much more eager for that commercial technically mediocre crap the manager-led teams are churning out than for the free software. Look how many people use Windows and how many Linux? According to my opinion you are thinking about some hypothetical humanity that values goods which are reliable, and whose design rulez, but that differs from the actual humanity. The problem here is: a) Free software engineers optimize only for technical quality and ignore usability (well when you already know how to work with that tool because you wrote it, you have no way how to tell the usability) b) Managers optimize only for usability and ignore technical quality (well when you've studied economy school you have no way to tell the technical quality). You can't really expect managers to be able to change their behaviour, therefore the free software engineers have to optimize for technical quality and usability at the same time for this problem to disappear. And with that I doen't mean KDE, where every other system configuration submenu segfaults. The goal is to make the project be usable by a trained monkey. Then even more mentally advanced species like Homo Consumericus can use it (and be slowly turned into Homo Creativus without their knowledge). Practically it's done that the FS engineer employs someone that have as little technical experience as possible. If he smokes weed, rides snowboard, skateboard and surfs, then he's got likely the best qualification for that. That person then does user interface quality control, helps with the UI design and scans documentation for mistakes and omissions. It's also about marketing. Not marketing in the modern re-defined sense where marketing==deception, but in the Wikipedia sense: Marketing is a social and managerial function that attempts to create, expand and maintain a collection of customers. It attempts to deliver demand satisfying output through profitable exchanges. There's no difference if the user doesn't use your program because it crashes, or because he doesn't know about it's existence. The result is the same. Seen in this light, the time I waste doing paid work is time stolen from Humanity. And when I manage to steal back company time by working on personal stuff while on paid time at a client's site (like I'm doing right now), I'm actually doing a valiant deed for humanity. What if your boss sees you doing personal stuff - does he fire you? On some rare occasions a paid client will have me develop some piece of software or firmware that would actually have value to humanity. On those rare occasions I always ensure that the work gets open-sourced, if necessary without the client's knowledge. Other times I use my clients' ignorance of the precise terms of the GPL and other free software licenses and make them believe that they have to open-source the kernel module I wrote for example, even if they really don't have to. And when you're doing hardware design, where the capital costs of a project can be quite high (gotta buy parts, make and stuff PCBs, build enclosures, meet applicable safety specs, etc), as opposed to software development where the costs are in time alone, the notion of giving away a completed, ready-to-build design is silly. On the service-to-humanity side of my life, I'm currently working on a hardware design (the Open source SDSL Debug and Connectivity Unit) which is a fairly complex microprocessor system and in which I fully expect to incur and am prepared to expend all of the costs that you have listed (with the exception of EMC/safety compliance because I'm a law-breaking anarchist), and even an additional cost of hiring someone else to do the layout step because I'm not good at it myself, yet the project is completely and totally open source. You can check my current state of schematic drawing out of my public CVS repository if you want. It isn't even GPL'ed or BSD-licensed, it's public domain and uncopyrighted. I don't copyright my work because as an anarchist I find it hypocritical to seek copyright or any
Re: gEDA-user: licensing (GPL or otherwise) for hardware?
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 12:30:57PM -0700, Andy Peters wrote: On Dec 13, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Michael Sokolov wrote: Andy Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to clarify: if I use GPLed or BSD-licensed tools to develop hardware, as well as using GPLed symbols/footprints, am I obligated to open-source the hardware design (the schematic, the PCB layout)? The tools do not impose this obligation, but your morality should. Common sense says no, but the degrees of freedom (hah hah) in open- source licenses vary greatly, and if I cannot keep my designs proprietary, then I can't use the tools. Regardless of what tools you use, if you keep your designs proprietary you are a bad guy and will burn in hell after you die (which may be accelerated if you get tried and rightfully executed by a lynch mob for your crime of withholding software source code and/or hardware designs from The People). Except my employer, and any freelance clients for whom I work, would object, in the strongest possible (read: legal) terms, if I were to simply give away, to anyone who asks, the work for which they pay me. I realize that open source is a religious matter for some, but guess what: I work for a living. And when you're doing hardware design, where the capital costs of a project can be quite high (gotta buy parts, make and stuff PCBs, build enclosures, meet applicable safety specs, etc), as opposed to software development where the costs are in time alone, the notion of giving away a completed, ready-to-build design is silly. Now I understand why free software developer always give away incomplete work :) CL It's hard to tell if you're yankin' my chain (thus earning Larry's Score: +5, Funny) or not. -a ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB prototyping sponsors?
On Mon, Dec 11, 2006 at 12:35:13PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: Are there any pcb prototyping manufactures that sponsor PCB/gEDA. I saw one anti-sponsor, sort of. They claimed they take Gerber RS 274-X. I gave them a valid Gerber RS 274-X (happened to be from PCB) and they said they cannot read it and that they can read a Gerber from everyone except me. So I went to a competition and they had no problem with it. I did a lot of boards at the competition and basically everyone who builds Ronja takes boards from there. And they have a much cuter guy at the counter there :) CL The folks at 4pcb.com were very helpful when I was working on fixing the gerber exporter. Their tech guys answered many emails and explained their end of things; if you want to reward support for PCB, they're the only ones that come to mind. When you submit your job, tell them I chose your company because you helped make PCB better. Thanks! Others may have other suggestions; 4pcb was the first company I dealt with so maybe everyone is that helpful. I'm working on a new project for a client, and I would like to use someone who supports Open Source Software if practically possible. But as for supporting PCB's output, most of them support it just fine, because the industry uses an open standard - gerber - so it doesn't take much effort to support pcb that way. There are a few that don't fully support gerber, but we've been working on changing pcb to accomodate those too. I've used 4pcb abd pcb-pool and both had no problem with pcb's output, although, to save money, I transcribed the gerbers into gcpreview for pcb-pool. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: licensing (GPL or otherwise) for hardware?
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 01:23:13PM -0800, Steve Meier wrote: My position on this is... 1) I use mostly my own symbols for the schematics and only my own land patterns. It is questionable if the release of a hard copy printed schematic or even a pdf would trigger a violation of the GPL. Essentialy in that format they are non-functional you can't do anything with them but view them. 2) The fonts as computer code can be copyrighted but not the output. So Everything can be viewed as a computer code. Imagine a RLE encoded picture - that's a programming language with limited capabilities. There are instructions like Repeat 100x the following instruction and emit a green pixel. ASCII file is also a programming language - it has 1-byte bytecodes like print A, print !, feed a new line, print a space, etc. There is actually no boundary between data and code. CL the use of the fonts includded with both PCB and gschem can be used to produce hardcopy and pdf's or ps files, without triggering a violation of the GPL or any other license. 3) I think the owners of the copyrights to gschem and pcb should state clearly if they desire that designs created using these tools be forced to be also released under the GPL. If not then the verbage of the licenses needs to state clearly how the symbols/land patterns may be used. Thanks, Steve Meier On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 14:48 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: Just to clarify: if I use GPLed or BSD-licensed tools to develop hardware, as well as using GPLed symbols/footprints, am I obligated to open-source the hardware design (the schematic, the PCB layout)? Common sense says no, but the degrees of freedom (hah hah) in open- source licenses vary greatly, and if I cannot keep my designs proprietary, then I can't use the tools. In general, the *use* of a *tool* to produce something, doesn't assert license over that something. The exception is when the tool inserts - verbatim - some copyrighted content into the output. Thus, the concern over use license of geda's libraries, which would cover this insertion. If you create your own symbol/footprint libraries, there's nothing gEDA's license can do to stop you from producing proprietary boards with it. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: licensing (GPL or otherwise) for hardware?
On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 02:56:53PM -0800, Stephen Williams wrote: Michael Sokolov wrote: On some rare occasions a paid client will have me develop some piece of software or firmware that would actually have value to humanity. On those rare occasions I always ensure that the work gets open-sourced, if necessary without the client's knowledge. Other times I use my clients' ignorance of the precise terms of the GPL and other free software licenses and make them believe that they have to open-source the kernel module I wrote for example, even if they really don't have to. I believe deceiving for a material profit is a criminal act, but deceiving for a public benefit is not illegal. Remind me, if the opportunity ever arises, that I should not hire you for anything. We are about open source here, and *not* *theft*. For that matter, I'm not so sure I want you use any of my software, open source or not. If you don't feel bound to a contract you might sign with a client, what is there to convince me you'll feel yourself bound to the GPL or any other license I grant you without a signature. You're really willing to knowingly lie to a paying customer? GPL is not disrespect for intellectual property rights. Indeed it relies on intellectual property rights to protect the author(s) from misrepresentation, and, frankly, from theft. -- Steve WilliamsThe woods are lovely, dark and deep. steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep, http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep, http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GPL and BSD (was: strange build failure)
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 09:11:42AM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: What's the difference between dist-license and use-license? dist-license affects symbol/footprint libraries and other distributions of the symbol/footprint as symbol/footprint software. use-license affects symbols/footprints within your schematics and boards, when distributed as hardware. I don't understand it. The symbols don't get into the hardware in any way. Just please make sure the components I already uploaded under GPL are spread in compliance with GPL. Set dist-license to GPL. However, if you set use-license to GPL, then it *may* mean that any physical hardware must be shipped with full schematics and .pcb files so that the user may change the GPL'd symbols and recreate the board from sources. Why do you think? The advantage of GPL is that it promotes free software. Yes, but it doesn't work so well with *hardware* which is why we split the licensing into two parts: distribution and use. I don't believe hardware is covered by copyright law. Do you believe that? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GPL and BSD (was: strange build failure)
On Wed, Dec 06, 2006 at 08:14:30AM -0500, Ales Hvezda wrote: Oh no, a GPL vs BSD flame fest. Must resist responsing... must resist... Failed to resist. [snip] The uncomfortable truth: the GPL is simply pointless religious bigotry. Making money is not evil; it's a fact of life. There, I said it. Somebody had to. Maybe I'm missing something, but nothing in the GPL prevents anyone from making money. There. I've said it too. :- In order to stay somewhat on topic, I will be adding the dist-license= and use-license= attributes to the master attribute list. And at some point I will attach both to all the symbols in the library. dist-licence will be GPL and I might consider (not sure I even can) setting use-licence to BSD. That was my intent for the symbols anyways. What's the difference between dist-license and use-license? Just please make sure the components I already uploaded under GPL are spread in compliance with GPL. The advantage of GPL is that it promotes free software. The advantage of BSD is that it's compatible with many licenses. For example we had problem with Links and OpenSSL. Debian couldn't distribute Links binary because of a licence clash. The same is if you want to make a video, download a music under CC-BY-SA and images from wikipedia under GFDL then you cannot fit it together, even when CC-BY-SA and GFDL are almost principially the same (just under a different name). CL -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: AVI video gschem
On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 06:42:45PM -0500, Ales Hvezda wrote: Hi Karel, I forgot to tell the licence - the video at http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi is under GFDL licence. Neat. Do you think I should upload it to archive.org? Seems kinda specific to gEDA for that. I would be willing to host it at geda.seul.org since it gives people a flavor of how the tools look and feel. Only look and feel? Someone asked me to make such a video some time ago because he didn't know which menus he should click and how to set the attributes etc. Do you think it's useful also in this regard? CL -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: prolog.ps
I found this in gschem.log: Unable to open the prolog file `prolog.ps' for reading in f_print_header() But why is it opening prolog.ps and not /usr/local/share/gEDA/prolog.ps? When I insert prolog.ps behing the %%Beginprolog%% then the ps can be displayed. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Bulb symbol
I am not sure if I already uploaded the bulb symbol I created or not. I searched for the online symbol listing with pictures I saw in the past, but couldn't find it anymore. Does it still exist? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Video - gschem basics (was: Re: gEDA-user: prolog.ps)
On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 09:53:30AM -0400, Mike Jarabek wrote:
Karel Kulhavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I found this in gschem.log:
Unable to open the prolog file `prolog.ps' for reading in f_print_header()
But why is it opening prolog.ps and not /usr/local/share/gEDA/prolog.ps?
When I insert prolog.ps behing the %%Beginprolog%% then the ps can be
displayed.
It's trying to open 'prolog.ps' because it does not know where to find the
actual prolog file. Your system-gafrc is missing the command to tell it
where to look.
Okay, this is what you are missing in your system-gafrc:
-
; postscript-prolog
;
; Sets the name of the postscript prolog file that will be
; pasted into the postscript output after the DSC comments, but
; before the main script.
(postscript-prolog ${GEDADATA}/prolog.ps)
-
This command will appear in your system-gafrc if you also download and
install the latest symbols tarball. This is where system-gafrc is shipped.
Thanks. Downloaded, installed, it works. Now the gnetlist explodes, but it's
easy to fix by reinstalling gnetlist. Uploadity uploadity upload - the AVI
video is at
http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi
CL
I added this in the system-gafrc because this is where the global paths are
set up, and it is the logical place to add it. Usually most people download
all the tarballs and install all the tools, instead of just one or two of
them. I think that the recommended proceedure for updating a gEDA
installation has been to always download and install all the parts. Note
that there are several other important paths set up in that file, so other
things may not work for you either, if they have changed since your last
install of the symbols package.
--
--
Mike Jarabek
FPGA/ASIC Designer
http://www.istop.com/~mjarabek
--
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gEDA-user: AVI video gschem
I forgot to tell the licence - the video at http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.avi is under GFDL licence. Do you think I should upload it to archive.org? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gschem video
Hello I made a video how to draw a simple circuit in gschem. It's in the vncrec format. It's zipped by bzip2. vncrec: http://www.sodan.org/~penny/vncrec/ http://ronja.twibright.com/video/gschem.vnc.bz2 Usage: download, bzip2 -d gschem.vnc.bz2, vncrec -play gschem.vnc CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: LED in reverse
On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 10:19:35AM -0500, John Doty wrote: On Nov 23, 2006, at 2:17 AM, Karel Kulhavy wrote: My application is noise-critical between 1MHz and 10MHz. Would BC547C be better than 2N3904? I assume it's not a switching transistor. Rather use BC549 or BC550, they have tighter spec on noise. Or use BF240 if gain has to be higher. PNP transistors can have lower noise due to lower base resistance. Does the gold increase only 1/f noise or also the broadband (white) noise? Broadband. The main effect is to reduce beta by promoting recombination. That increases base current shot noise: every additional recombination event is one electron's worth of charge noise variance. Is this base current shot noise amplified by the transistor like any other current that is applied to the base? CL This isn't a huge effect: an expert can usually get better results from things like 2N3904 than a non-expert can get from anything. Noise performance depends less on the parts than on how you use them. For a good start here, study the part of Horowitz and Hill's The Art of Electronics that describes low noise design. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Hysteric zooming
On Fri, Nov 24, 2006 at 05:35:02PM -0500, Ales Hvezda wrote: In gschem 20061020 the 'z' and 'Z' have faster autorepeat than is set on the keyboard. When I press for a time that produces only one letter in xterm, gschem zooms several steps. Is this intentional? It's difficult to work with when you want to do only one step. Curious, I don't see any hysterical zoom when pressing the z or Z key once in 20061020. Anybody else see anything like this? Furthermore, I don't think that anything has changed in this part of the code for quite some time. Did you switch operating systems or gtk+ versions or X Window versions recently? I switched from Linux to OpenBSD like a half year ago. I had a previous version of gschem until recently and can't remember something like this would happen. I noticed after I reinstalled to 200610. CL -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Starting schematic
I suggest that a starting schematic containing diodes, transistors, resistors, capacitors, logical gates etc. (the parts that are used the most often) be created and be used instead of untitled.sch or could be invoked from the menu. It's faster to copy and delete than to find everything in the menu. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gschem default frame
I think the default titleblock that has been added in gschem is a good idea. It saves some work when creating a new schematic. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Depletion zone
When a depletion zone in a diode is created, holes are on one side and electrons on the other side and the zone is middle. But electrons and holes attract and they should be attracted together and refill the depletion zone again. Why doesn't this happen? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gEDAFont
What is gEDAFont and how do I make Ghostscript not bail out with an error message on it? I can't compile Ronja with the newest gEDA now. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Generating a postscript from gschem
Is it possible to generate a postscipt from gschem? The method I used to use doesn't work anymore - it generates a file, but it doesn't contain valid postscript. I tried to delete the error parts of the wanna-be PostScript that go out of this and I am not able to produce a postscript that ggv eats even this way. I cannot print my schematic now! (paper-size 11.69 8.27) ; A4 (load (string-append gedadatarc /gschem-lightbg)) ; light background (output-orientation landscape) (output-type limits) (output-color enabled) (output-text ps) ; You need call this after you call any rc file function (gschem-use-rc-values) ; filename is specified on the command line (gschem-print dummyfilename) (gschem-exit) CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem schematic of Sinclair ZX Spectrum
On Wed, Nov 22, 2006 at 07:30:06PM +, Colin Ager wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: Does anyone have a gschem schematic of Sinclair ZX Spectrum? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user Hi Karel. I do not have a schematic but I do have the main PCB and the membrane from the keyboard. I don't know if they are good or not but the board appears to be complete. It is from 1983 issue 4A. If you require this or any bits let me know. Only the ULA chip is socketed and I don't think I could remove the other main chips without damage! There are schematics for all the issues but they are scanned printed. I meant *.sch file. I already have basically a ZX Spectrum issue 2 at home since few days, too. Colin Ager Garboldisham Norfolk UK ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gschem schematic of Sinclair ZX Spectrum
Does anyone have a gschem schematic of Sinclair ZX Spectrum? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: LED in reverse
On Fri, Nov 17, 2006 at 10:56:37AM -0600, John Griessen wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: Do you know at which voltage a typical red LED breaks down in reverse? 100V? [jg]usual is 10, 15, 20 Volts onlyfor the ones from 1979 in a hemisphere on cylinder plastic molding What happens when the diode is charged slowly with a current source of say 0.5mA until it breaks down and it's internal capacitance discharges by avalanche? Will it blink or stay dark in the process? [jg]flashes once, then dead... How is it possible that the LED withstands 20mA in forward and is destroyed by 0.5mA in reverse? If it has say 1.5V forward and 5V reverse then the amount of energy dissipated is greater in the forward case. CL John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: LED in reverse
On Sun, Nov 19, 2006 at 02:39:14PM +0100, Tomaz Solc wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi How is it possible that the LED withstands 20mA in forward and is destroyed by 0.5mA in reverse? If it has say 1.5V forward and 5V reverse then the amount of energy dissipated is greater in the forward case. I just tried this in practice. I've connected a 1MOhm resistor in series with a LED and a DC voltage source. I've tested some old low-intensity 3mm yellow and green LEDs and a new high-intensity blue 5mm LED. I could not get yellow and green LEDs to break-down. They conducted a negligible current with 250V reverse voltage which is as high as my equipment will go. The blue LED broke down at approximately 25V. There was no flash and the LED didn't light up even when there was 0.2mA flowing through it (which is enough to light it up when connected in the forward direction). This experiment also destroyed the LED because it won't emit any light now, although it still has a I(U) characteristic of a diode. Now I'm a bit skeptical about these results. It seems strange that those yellow and green LEDs can withstand such reverse voltages. However I've used this method before to measure break-down voltages of various transistors and I always got good results. I also don't know why the blue LED was damaged. Transistors I checked There is SoC inside the LED which has a bitmap-PDF copy of the datasheet in a ROM. It runs in cycles. Every time it measures all electrical values and runs OCR on the datasheet. If any of the maximum ratings is violated, a self-destruct fuse is activated. This also explains why the LED isn't damaged by momentarily ESD discharges. If the current goes between the measurements (which are given by the speed of the OCR), it goes unnoticed. this way weren't damaged in the process and the maximum power dissipation in the LED was something like 10 times lower than in normal operation of the LED. The electrons were accelerated to such overly agressive speeds that the atoms cracked when hit by the electrons. As the atoms are cracked now, they malfunction. CL Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFYF6CsAlAlRhL9q8RAjY5AKCU7rxwtrXRb7e0Q1sklhTEWF+VCwCgtdDP k0lmbqfak15HJ01xvS7nW7Y= =x5IE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem regularly segfaults on OpenBSD
On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 12:10:14PM +, Peter Clifton wrote: On Wed, 2006-11-15 at 10:27 +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote: I have gschem 20060123 Sorry,... I mis-read your version number. That is a fairly old version, and it sounds like you may be suffering the autosave crash. This was Yes it seems to be related to the autosave. I think sometimes it crashes even by itself, without me actually pressing anything. fixed in CVS on 2006-09-04, I think the latest release was 20061020. It is entirely possible that BSD makes the fairly rare autosave crash more repeatable. (Wish I'd known that when I was trying to track it down!) Are you compiling with electric fence library? That finds a lot of memory corruption. CL Regards Peter Clifton ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gschem regularly segfaults on OpenBSD
I have gschem 20060123 When I edit schematics in gschem, I get randomly a segfault say every 5 minutes. I have to save every say 30 seconds and when it explodes, restart it and continue. I didn't have these problems on Linux. But the version I used there may have been different. I don't remember what was the last version of gschem I used on Linux. It doesn't depend on what schematic I edit. I think it may be caused by the protection of OpenBSD against malilcious code. OpenBSD kernel has some special measures incorporated which make sure that if the program damages the memory, it crashes as often as possible. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB's at 10 GHz or 2.5THz?
On Sun, Nov 05, 2006 at 03:57:13PM -0500, Bob Paddock wrote: Someone asked me if I could do a PCB layout for them at 10 GHz. I know there are a lot of very expensive packages out there for doing this kind of thing, those are not in my budget. How high a frequency has anyone here done? Any tips or suggestions to offer? Anyone doing anything in the THz range yet (yes, that is a 'T')? I have done 480THz. But it gets demodulated soon at the beginning of the signal path. CL -- http://www.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.unusualresearch.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gnucap BJT simulation detail level
Hello Does the simulation of BJT in Gnucap also reproduce the effect of fT (transition frequency) decreasing with collector current decrease? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: FPGAs, SDSL, Ronjas...
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 04:35:48PM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: Karel Kulhavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the ISP detects this, Do you think that ISPs have nothing better to do than go into the low level debug features of their DSLAMs, look at individual packets in hex etc. to detect that I started using a different implementation of their line management protocol? he can change the standard Well, we have a precedent already: @#$%^* Verizon has decided to decommission their own nice solid Enterprise DSL network (built with Copper Mountain DSLAMs) and reduce to reselling crappy Covad service. Covad uses Nokia DSLAMs. They are now connecting all new customers through Covad even where they have previously had their own DSLAMs. I don't know what'll happen to the existing customers on the old CM network, but I won't be surprised if one nice day they force them to switch. Doesn't matter for me though as my SDSL line is already of the Nokia/Covad flavor since the last physical relocation of the facilities. (I don't know if it's because they had already started their diabolical plan then or because this rural location has never had Enterprise DSL to begin with.) As for the relic Copper Mountain DSLAMs, I've just bought one on eBay and am now waiting for the UPS man. and then you have to do the work once more again. Which is where the FPGA saves the day again. That's what field- programmable is all about: change the hardware with vi and make. You need to do the reverseengineering and declassifying work. What if they refuse to give out the docs, he? Or he puts only original modem from the ISP is allowed into the contract. They probably do already, but how are they going to enforce it? The worst they can do is not provide me with tech support for a modem of my own design, but that's rather obvious. They won't disconnect me -- as long as I pay the bill they don't give a damn about anything else. I'm perfectly free to experiment with unsupported hw/sw/fw at my own risk. Or what if the ISP starts to telling you what you can do and what you can't? For example, my ISP Cablecom Switzerland says in the contract: [...] If my ISP were like that, I wouldn't be their customer! Although of course not all business customers are the same and I can't expect exactly the same treatment as their T3, OC12 etc. customers, it still IS a business service, and restrictions like you describe are unheard of on mission-critical business Internet services -- at least the kind of business Internet services that I would ever subscribe to. The business grade services offered here are prohibitively expensive here. What is more reliably is getting rid of the abominable ISP and taking the whole infrastructure into your hands. All you need is my device called Ronja [...] Of course you don't get an Internet connection with this, but if you find more neightbour of friends you can make a LAN Rather useless for me as there's nothing but horses and cows in a 20 km radius of my facility. I'm rather amazed that we have a Covad DSLAM You can put tripods with analogue Ronja retranslation and solar battery between the cows and horses. With WiFi, it wouldn't work because the packetloss increases with amount of hops. With Ronja the packetloss is so low that even a chain of 1000 Ronja's is not a problem (well instead of 10^-9 you get 10^-6 BER). CL here. Are Americans now spoiled to the point that even horses and cows can't live without high speed Internet any more? and then connect with some professional-grade connection. Aha! You still need the professional-grade connection! That's what my SDSL is -- professional-grade connection, non-profit organisation budget-appropriate. Of course I would never do a project like this for a consumer service like ADSL or DOCSIS -- but _S_DSL is a different story. Do something else instead :) Let's just agree that we have different interests in life, and leave it at that. MS, who wants to get back to drawing OSDCU schematics ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: FPGAs, SDSL, Ronjas...
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 01:27:35PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: On Nov 2, 2006, at 4:35 PM, Michael Sokolov wrote: When the ISP detects this, Do you think that ISPs have nothing better to do than go into the low level debug features of their DSLAMs, look at individual packets in hex etc. to detect that I started using a different implementation of their line management protocol? Further, very few ISPs actually employ anyone with half a clue anymore anyway. Trivial matters such as making DNS entries is beyond most ISPs' staff these days. This must be a sign of the apocalypse. I am agreeing with Michael Sokolov. Why do you think it's a sign of the apocalypse? Who is Michael Sokolov? I can't find any entry for Michael Sokolov on Wikipedia. The Apocalypse may have already began, because the star called Wormwood already spread it's portion of death. Chernobyl must be a Russian word for wormwood (in Czech language, which is a slavic language too, there is a plant called Pelynek cernobyl, which means Wormwood the black weed). A star is physically an atomic reactor. In the old days when they wrote the text they didn't have a word for atomic reactor, so they probably used an existing word describing an object with the same internal physical function. But who cares about some apocalypse here apocalypse there? I currently care about my amplifier to have fast enough edge reaction, clean clipping and not oscillate. When people manage to destroy the civilization, the effect for me will be there will be lots of free abandoned metal all around from which I would build Ronja's for free :) CL As for the relic Copper Mountain DSLAMs, I've just bought one on eBay and am now waiting for the UPS man. Those relics are deployed by the dozen all over the country. I am currently responsible for two of them myself. Be prepared...the user interface is...erm, obtuse. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:58:02PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: It all depends on what you're into. I've been discussing a project with a friend that would involve building what amounts to a copy of the PDP-8 (Straight-8, no suffix) with individual transistors. It's fun, cool, and highly educational in a number of areas. Now I am rebuilding the Ronja receiver with individual transistors instead of the NE592. The dynamic range was low, the chip operated out of the specified thermal range and you had to pick up transistor pairs with similar amplification. Only now I discovered the beauty of symmetric limiting amplifiers, current sources and cascode configuration. Now I have two stages, the first is 4-transistor and the second 6-transistor. I want to make 3 stages, 6 transistors each and today I have to go into a shop again for another 10 transistors, because I have just 1 left here. Transistors are cheap. Transistors are fast. Transistors have almost unlimited operating temperature range. The manufacturer doesn't keep the secrets of operation away from you. You can implement interesting functions by clever arrangement of them. I am looking forward to the day when the receiver will be finished and I can place a fully transistorized and 19 transistors retro labels on them :) Finally people will stop asking where can I get that NE592 circuit and my Ronja doesn't work on short distances. Does it matter if you solder 14 pins of NE592 or 5 3-pin transistors? CL Are you going to be true to the time and use TO-92, or cheat and use SOT-535's? The Museum of Science in Boston has a computer that plays tic tac toe. It's made of wooden Tinker Toys. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 12:53:13AM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: On Nov 1, 2006, at 10:58 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: It all depends on what you're into. I've been discussing a project with a friend that would involve building what amounts to a copy of the PDP-8 (Straight-8, no suffix) with individual transistors. It's fun, cool, and highly educational in a number of areas. Are you going to be true to the time and use TO-92, or cheat and use SOT-535's? Well my tentative plan is to duplicate the functionality of the individual boards, but not to scale. Many DEC machines of that era were built with Flip Chip boards, 2.5x5 PCBs with card-edge connectors that typically implement relatively little logic...say, a pair of flip-flops. The PDP-8/S, for example (a model I've studied much more closely than the Straight-8), uses maybe fifteen different types of Flip Chips, but hundreds of them. I'm thinking of cloning the functionality of those Flip Chips board-for-board, but much smaller, perhaps the size of a large postage stamp, using 0805 resistors capacitors and SOT-23 transistors. Though I have no problem with TO-92 packages, I'm no longer a big fan of through-hole components in general...too much of a pain to work with when compared with surface-mount, and using smaller parts makes for a much smaller...perhaps even desktop...finished unit. I am prototyping my Ronja RX on TO-92 2N3904. But it's a bit pain in the ass because I have to cut the base as short as possible and put possible capacitors hooked to base as short as possible too. Very unhandy for unskilled user. The final version will be SMD, MMBT3904 or how it is called, which is easier for ordinary user because there is nothing to botch, and will be smaller. The electronics is now adding about 10 unnecessary centimeters to the optical head, with increasing wind resistance and a need for a little more robust construction. CL I'm very hot to do this, but I won't be able to devote much time to it anytime soon, as my employment is going away in a few weeks and I'm busy scrambling to find work in the middle of a technological wasteland. The Museum of Science in Boston has a computer that plays tic tac toe. It's made of wooden Tinker Toys. That is just too damn cool. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:58:57PM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: Steve Meier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure why not here is a link to an individual who built a replica of the Apollo Guidance System, using discrete components and wire wrap, in his basement. Of course a discrete logic wire-wrapped computer is cool. There is no question on that one. But there is also a place for FPGAs. Yes, it sucks that they require proprietary software. Unfortunately we don't have the manpower and firepower to annihilate all police and national guard etc. and seize the CEOs of Altera and Xilinx, connect variacs to them and slowly ramp up the voltage until they release full specs for their chips. So we can't open-source that part yet. But we can still use FPGAs in the meantime to help open-source other things, even if not the FPGA itself. As a specific example, right now I'm working on open-sourcing the SDSL Internet connection technology. See the project home page I've pointed to earlier for the gory details. The basic idea is to get rid of the abominable closed source modem provided by the ISP and to replace it with an Open Source Hardware device that connects directly to the copper pair and talks the SDSL electrical signal format in open source. When the ISP detects this, he can change the standard and then you have to do the work once more again. Or he puts only original modem from the ISP is allowed into the contract. Or what if the ISP starts to telling you what you can do and what you can't? For example, my ISP Cablecom Switzerland says in the contract: 1) they don't guarantee freedom from failures and faults (my modem hangs every couple of days) 2) you are not supposed to load the link 100% from 14pm to the midnight, especially by downloading thinigs from p2p, if you do they can cut you off or limit your rate 3) the rate I pay for is maximum rate, there is no minimum rate 4) The downlink is designated as 4Mbps but it runs 2.2Mbps. The uplink is something horribly slow (it's assymetric). Which pisses me every time I upload photographs and compiled PDF's, postscripts and PNG's on the Ronja website. What is more reliably is getting rid of the abominable ISP and taking the whole infrastructure into your hands. All you need is my device called Ronja http://ronja.twibright.com which communicates 10Mbps full duplex over 1.4km in air with direct visibility using visible or infrared light. Then: 1) Freedom from failures and faults is guaranteed except fog, if a fault comes all you need is go to your roof and fix what you did wrong, or send a bugreport to the Ronja mailing list. 2) you are free to load the link 100% 24/7, it doesn't matter, you don't even see the 100% load on round-trip or web or ssh latency 3) You don't pay any monthly fee. You pay once for the components, the rate is guaranteed to be 10Mbps +/-200ppm. 4) The link is symmetric, full duplex Of course you don't get an Internet connection with this, but if you find more neightbour of friends you can make a LAN and then connect with some professional-grade connection. If the SDSL line uses ATM as all newer DSLAMs do, connecting to it requires an ATM TC-PHY (implementation of I.432.1) and possibly also a custom framer. Now let's be practical here -- do you think that an SSI/MSI implementation of those components would make a practically No. That puts up in front of a choice - either do it with FPGA, or bypass it somewhere deeper (Ronja). ISP? An FPGA implementation easily can, however. Replacing the ISP- provided box with an open source implementation that uses an FPGA won't increase the number of closed source components in your house because the ISP-provided SDSL modem has one too if it's an ATM-based flavor of SDSL. But the other components of the modem, i.e., the top level architecture, the microprocessor firmware, all layer 2 and higher stuff, will change from closed to open source. Isn't that a worthy goal? We can open-source SDSL using an Altera FPGA now (the exact same FPGA used in the current Covad-provided router), while open-sourcing the FPGA itself will have to wait until we can gather enough manpower and firepower to annihilate the PD in whatever city harbors the Altera CEO and hook electrodes to the bastard. Another reason why an FPGA saves the day is that there are umpteen gazillion different flavors of SDSL -- as many as there are DSLAM vendors, each making their own CPE modem with Yet Another proprietary router OS to fight with. My open SDSL connectivity project seeks to replace them all with a single open source hardware platform that can handle all flavors. How would you propose doing that without an FPGA? Do something else instead :) CL Practical sensible solutions only please. MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Haunted BF982
On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 07:09:06AM -0800, Samuel A. Falvo II wrote: On 10/30/06, Karel Kulhavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't - the transistor is in a hole in a metal shielding partition, two legs (G1,G2) on one side and the other two on the other (D, S). No way to use the metal shielding itself as a heatsink then? Is it possible that thermal effects have an effect even on infinitesimally small signals? It doesn't seem to be a large-signal distortion because it doesn't go away even if the signal is reduced by orders of magnitude. CL -- Samuel A. Falvo II ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 11:45:08PM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: Kai-Martin Knaak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's why varicad is the only non open source software on my box. ^^^ So you don't work with FPGAs then, huh? The FPGA compiler (Altera Quartus, Linux/x86 version) is the only sans-source piece of software that I grudgingly put up with in my environment. If you don't need high complexity circuits, then you can implement things from medium-scale integrated circuits instead of FPGA, and then you don't have to use proprietary software :) http://ronja.twibright.com/schematics/twister2/twister2.png CL MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 05:05:21AM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ditto for the Xilinx toolchain on my box. At least once you are registered, get the free-as-in-beer download, Xilinx XST works natively and without monkeying with license keys. I've tried it, but got turned off in utter disgust when I saw that the thing is packaged in encrypted (!) ZIPs specifically to make it impossible to bypass their stinky GUI installer. The free download version of Quartus-II I found seems to need WINE and (no cost) keys. Can you confirm that, or did I do something wrong? I'm not using that version, I'm using the native Linux version. You can I have OpenBSD. Is there also a native OpenBSD version? :) And btw, reasonably recent wine doesn't work on OpenBSD :) CL download it from ftp.altera.com:/outgoing/release. It's a normal tar file containing .tar.gz's inside, no GUIs crammed down your throat. In fact I can't even use its GUI at all, only the command line utilities because my bootleg license file only has FEATURE quartus but not the other FEATURE (altera_mainwin_lnx or quartus_mainwin_lnx, something like that) that enables the GUI. But that's perfectly fine with me because command line tools are exactly what I want, my 80-column mind can't handle GUI. MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: experiences using geda with students
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 12:15:48PM -0600, John Griessen wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: We run a robot design project, . . . the desire is (from the project's leader) that the students use gschem or similar to draw their schematics. We aren't yet at the stage where these students build custom PCBs, however various ideas for rapid prototyping (miniature milling setups) have been discussed as a future possibility. I saw at one Univ. site, (maybe MIT) a lab procedure about using their owned spray etching station. I have tested a very environmentally friendly etchant using HCl and H2O2 and pure copper metal to start off a solution and it works well enough without spray, and precipitates copper hydroxide when pH neutralized leaving slightly salty water that can go down the drain. The copper hydroxide can be sent to the landfill or sold scrap even. This etchant recipe, originally published by Leo Van Loon, is easy to see through, easy to replenish by color change, and low risk of eating holes in clothes, and makes no stains on hands or clothes. Baking soda in water is all you need to neutralize/rinse just etched boards, and lye, (NaOH), and pH paper or meter is all you need to neutralize excess etchant. Replenishing is by adding HCl 35% and H202 35% -- it increases the volume of etchant, so you drain out some before replenishing the etchant. The chemicals are available and cheap -- $6/gal for acid, $13/liter for H2O2 35%, and those sizes are the right proportions to buy in to make the recipe. Here's a board etched with it: http://shop.cottagematic.com/elab/etched-board-epson-photo-paper.jpg This photo was out of focus, but it's easy to see in a bubble tank when laminate substrate is showing -- copper can still be seen on the bottom edge. http://shop.cottagematic.com/elab/etch-done.jpg What are the black stains? Places where the patterns were accidentally etched through? Or some kind of corrosion? Is it a picture taken during the etching process or after? CL With spray, it would be a more even etch over panels of boards, and easier to see the progress of the etch for first time success. When you make some standardizing assumptions like your board sizes are 90% 2x4 cm, 5% 3x6 cm, and none are longer than 6 inches; 95% of boards are single sided copper plus wire jumpers, surface mount only; the etch station is small and easy. The main thing to buy is an acid proof pump for the etch spray. If you have a fume hood to put it in, any old clear plastic or glass can be used for the low requirements of the tank size and strength, and assembled with silicone RTV like a fish tank. If you didn't have a fume hood, some kind of box with a slight vacuum fan to pull air through some baking soda would neutralize any HCl mist or vapor as it is done and purify the air inside the etch tank after the spray pump stops. the final thing required is a fish tank heater. That attaches to the lid so you can make a glass tube to lid wall seal with silicone RTV (again). I have all the parts and will be trying it out soon and report more on this list about it, and would negotiate to make you a system if there is no one who can budget time on it at your place -- It would be about $400 for a new pump, $100 for a used one and about 6 hours or less work to hire to get one assembled. John Griessen ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gwave installation failure on OpenBSD
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 08:21:44PM -0500, Dan McMahill wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: guile-gtk-2.1-0.31 from http://geda.seul.org/sources.html fails on OpenBSD 3.9 with rm -f /usr/local/bin/build-guile-gtk rm -f /usr/local/bin/guile-gtk ln /usr/local/bin/build-guile-gtk-1.2 /usr/local/bin/build-guile-gtk /bin/sh ./mkinstalldirs /usr/local/lib /bin/sh ./libtool --mode=install /usr/bin/install -c libguilegtk-1.2.la /usr/local/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.la /usr/bin/install -c .libs/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0 /usr/local/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0 install: .libs/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 Stop in /home/clock/guile-gtk-1.2-0.31 (line 243 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /home/clock/guile-gtk-1.2-0.31 (line 596 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /home/clock/guile-gtk-1.2-0.31 (line 408 of Makefile). Does the gwave has to be based on something that is so nonportable that on OpenBSD 3.9 it cannot figure out path to it's own compilation result? Sadly it seems that guile-gtk more or less has stopped development. That issue aside, are you using GNU make or OpenBSD's make? I've found Hard to tell. The make executable is OpenBSD make. The gmake executable is GNU make. However I made this alias for enhanced compatibility: alias make='gmake' So it's basically nondeterministic - if it calls make directly then it will be OpenBSD make, if it goes through the alias mechanism in the shell, then it will be GNU make. If the make calls itself recursively and has bad luck it can actually end up calling a different implementation of itself :) CL that sometimes some makefiles are written in a way that cause moderately strange failures on non-GNU make. This is more a consequence of GNU make being the make most commonly used by linux software. Is guile-gtk not available in the openbsd ports system? What's in that .libs directory? -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 11:27:59AM -0800, Dave N6NZ wrote: Off topic I know, but I need a pointer. Is there a decent FOSS 3D CAD program that will create STL files for simple parts? I don't know what a STL file is. FOSS 3D CAD is BRL-CAD which I use on Ronja: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gwave installation failure on OpenBSD
guile-gtk-2.1-0.31 from http://geda.seul.org/sources.html fails on OpenBSD 3.9 with rm -f /usr/local/bin/build-guile-gtk rm -f /usr/local/bin/guile-gtk ln /usr/local/bin/build-guile-gtk-1.2 /usr/local/bin/build-guile-gtk /bin/sh ./mkinstalldirs /usr/local/lib /bin/sh ./libtool --mode=install /usr/bin/install -c libguilegtk-1.2.la /usr/local/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.la /usr/bin/install -c .libs/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0 /usr/local/lib/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0 install: .libs/libguilegtk-1.2.so.0.0: No such file or directory *** Error code 71 Stop in /home/clock/guile-gtk-1.2-0.31 (line 243 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /home/clock/guile-gtk-1.2-0.31 (line 596 of Makefile). *** Error code 1 Stop in /home/clock/guile-gtk-1.2-0.31 (line 408 of Makefile). Does the gwave has to be based on something that is so nonportable that on OpenBSD 3.9 it cannot figure out path to it's own compilation result? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Current source rail blocking
gn Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:09:46PM -0500, Dan McMahill wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: Hello In my broadband high sensitivity amplifier I have a rail where bases of all current source transistors are hooked up. Each current source is a transistor with an emitter resistor which compensates variance in aplification so that even unmatched transistors produce matched currents. Do you have any recommendations how to block the current sources from picking up some garbage from the air and causing oscillation? Should I block the rail with a single big capacitor against the ground, or use individual capacitor for each transistor placed between emitter and base? What sort of transistors are these? Are you seeing oscillations in 2N3904 practice or is this just a concern prior to seeing any real hardware? In practice. I'd avoid using transistors which are faster than need be. For example, sticking a 20 GHz device in there may not be a good idea. If you can tolerate some additional noise, you can stick some resistance in series with the base if the transistors themselves are oscillating. Why does this help? Slows down the transistor by forming an RC lowpass with the inherent E-B capacitance of the transistor? The problem here is that I want the amplifier has to be fast (preserve nice sharp edges in the signal), broadband (from 1MHz to 10MHz without noticeable frequency deformation) and low noise (i. e. the collector current has to be kept low otherwise I get too much shot noise). If you have some extra capacitance on the emitter and some inductance in With capacitance on emitter do you mean capacitor between E and B or between E and GND? the base circuit (without much extra resistive loss), then it's not too hard to build an oscillator. Without knowing some more details anything Is it possible to hook up a test circuit with the parasitics in gnucap and run it and see it if it oscillates? Or is it just going to say internal node open or fail to converge? BTW how does the reality work that it always converges? Is it possible to build a real electronic circuit that causes the universe to fail to converge and be terminated with an error message? If not, why isn't the same calculation that is used to run the universe just put into gnucap so it would converge every time? Does gnucap convergence failure indicate the circuit would oscillate? Does an oscillator circuit in gnucap always cause convergence failure on transient mode simulation? else would be pure speculation. Well, I want to build a current source from a single 2N3904 (or a double one if it's a current mirror where the driving half can be recycled for multiple mirrors) that gives 2.5mA constant current and behaves like a current mirror to as high frequencies as possible (i. e. not something that is nicely stable but from 10kHz up it starts behaving like a capacitor instead of current source). How would you do it? Is it possible to test stability of a current source itself without connecting the rest of the circuit? What is the most poisonous load possible for a BJT-based current source? A resistor? A capacitor? An inductor? Is it possible to improve high-frequency current source behaviour by putting an inductor in series? An inductor enforces stable current in the time short-term, doesn't it? CL -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: BC547 vs. 2N3904
Do you like more BC547C for higher frequency applications or 2N3904? I once did a simulation for some Ronja differential limiting amplifier which showed that BC547C is a bit better than 2N3904 because, despite it being lazy, it has higher amplification. Is it possible to get rid of oscillating transistors by replacing the hand-soldered airwire with a SMD on a 2-sided PCB with a ground-plane? What is the major cause of oscillations in high-frequency amplifiers? Inductance of wires? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Current source rail blocking
On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 06:40:13AM -0500, Dan McMahill wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: gn Sun, Oct 29, 2006 at 07:09:46PM -0500, Dan McMahill wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: Hello In my broadband high sensitivity amplifier I have a rail where bases of all current source transistors are hooked up. Each current source is a transistor with an emitter resistor which compensates variance in aplification so that even unmatched transistors produce matched currents. Do you have any recommendations how to block the current sources from picking up some garbage from the air and causing oscillation? Should I block the rail with a single big capacitor against the ground, or use individual capacitor for each transistor placed between emitter and base? What sort of transistors are these? Are you seeing oscillations in 2N3904 practice or is this just a concern prior to seeing any real hardware? In practice. I'd avoid using transistors which are faster than need be. For example, sticking a 20 GHz device in there may not be a good idea. If you can tolerate some additional noise, you can stick some resistance in series with the base if the transistors themselves are oscillating. Why does this help? Slows down the transistor by forming an RC lowpass with the inherent E-B capacitance of the transistor? Calculate the impedance seen looking into the base of a common emitter stage that has capacitance from emitter to ground. If you have capacitance to ground at the emitter, then there is an impedance proportional to 1/j*w there. Now refer that to the base side. At higher frequencies, the transistor current gain is falling off with frequency so now you get a 1/(j*w)^2 term in the impedance looking into the base. When you actually work out the math, you'll get some expression that will have a capacitive term along with a *negative* resistance term. Combine that with some inductance (from the board layout, package leads, etc) and you have an oscillator. The series R serves to produce a net positive resistance. Is it possible to hook up a test circuit with the parasitics in gnucap and run it and see it if it oscillates? Or is it just going to say internal node open or fail to converge? It should be very easy to simulate the negative input resistance. This is also easy to calculate by hand. To simulate oscillations you'll need to be sure you have a correct model for whatever parasitic inductance you may have in the base circuit. BTW how does the reality work that it always converges? Is it possible to build a real electronic circuit that causes the universe to fail to converge and be terminated with an error message? If not, why isn't the same calculation that is used to run the universe just put into gnucap so it would converge every time? Does gnucap convergence failure indicate the circuit would oscillate? Does an oscillator circuit in gnucap always cause convergence failure on transient mode simulation? Many of my convergence problems (not speaking of gnucap but simulators in general) come from bad inputs. Reality usually doesn't include an ideal 1F capacitor or an inductor with no loss. Reality usually doesn't include a voltage coefficient on some element which causes a stable operating point with internal voltages outside the supply. Certainly a simulator can mess up too, but it's pretty easy to feed them a model which does not reflect reality. Well, I want to build a current source from a single 2N3904 (or a double one if it's a current mirror where the driving half can be recycled for multiple mirrors) that gives 2.5mA constant current and behaves like a current mirror to as high frequencies as possible (i. e. not something that is nicely stable but from 10kHz up it starts behaving like a capacitor instead of current source). How would you do it? When you say behaves like a current mirror to as high freq. as possible, do you mean Iout/Iin is wideband or that the impedance looking into the output is as high as possible? The impedance looking into the output. What about putting a coil in series with the collector? Your basic approach you already described is fine. I'd just pay particular attention to the potential for instability. This means don't add extra C to ground from the emitter and maybe leave room in your layout for some series R in the bases. The bases of several transistors in the current supplies are wired together. I am concerned what happens if some load puts a surge of electricity into the collector of one of them and it gets through the C-B capacitance on the connected bases. Then the drive voltage of the current supplies goes up and all supplies start producing more current. That extra current can reflect somewhere inside the circuit and come the same way back, amplified. Then it would start oscillating. I want to make sure
Re: gEDA-user: Haunted BF982
On Mon, Oct 30, 2006 at 08:15:51AM -0500, Dan McMahill wrote: Karel Kulhavy wrote: I was wondering why something is limiting the bandwidth of my 1MHz square signal from the bottom so the square wave had higher beginning and lower end (significantly). Do you have a picture of the waveform you can post? I figured out it is caused by the BF982 transistor. The signal at the input gate is fine, on the output (which is drain directly into a 220 ohm load), it is already deformed. The source is nailed to the ground. The transistor has tons of headroom and runs from 12V. It happens even on microscopically small signals. The operating point of G1 is in the middle of it's almost-linear space, the G2 is at full amplification point at 4V, amply blocked to the ground with total of 100nF. Have you probed G2 just to be sure it isn't moving around? Yes, it's flat. Vds max is 12 V on that device, I might be a bit nervous with a supply that hits that limit. It actually isn't 12V, it's 11.9V (after RC filtration) and then the 220 ohm resistors eats something more. The transistor was disconnected from the rest of the amplifier, isolated, nothing was connected to the 200 Ohm workload. Is it possible that as the transistor is optimized for 300MHz or 800MHz operation, they actually managed to make it start amplifying a bit less from 150kHz downwards? Not that I know of but I have very little experience in actually using dual gate FET's. As I couldn't find any physical cause that I could control, I implemented a compensation for the deformation in the next stage and now the wave is nicely level. The compensation turns out to be perfect when calculated for 150kHz simple RC high-pass. I think I saw this effect in another receiver populated by BF988, too. By any chance do things, like the 150 kHz frequency, change if you stick a heatsink on that transistor? For the purposes of this test, it doesn't need to be attached very well mechanically as long as its connected thermally. I'm thinking of just a drop of thermal grease with a large enough piece of aluminum stuck on top. Large enough would be something that appreciably changes the thermal system. I can't - the transistor is in a hole in a metal shielding partition, two legs (G1,G2) on one side and the other two on the other (D, S). CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gnucap: how to use .MODEL?
On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 07:59:33PM -0400, al davis wrote: On Friday 27 October 2006 17:08, al davis wrote: On Friday 27 October 2006 16:16, Karel Kulhavy wrote: Does anyone know how to simulate BFG410W transistor in Put a blank line at the beginning of the included file. As per a VERY early Spice standard, the first line of any file is a title, which is stored and not used. I answered too quickly .. What version are you using? Get the new one. It no longer ignores the first line, consistent with more recent versions of spice. Gnucap 2005.06.10 RCS 25.28 Was the first line ignorance written in the gnucap documentation? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Current source rail blocking
Hello In my broadband high sensitivity amplifier I have a rail where bases of all current source transistors are hooked up. Each current source is a transistor with an emitter resistor which compensates variance in aplification so that even unmatched transistors produce matched currents. Do you have any recommendations how to block the current sources from picking up some garbage from the air and causing oscillation? Should I block the rail with a single big capacitor against the ground, or use individual capacitor for each transistor placed between emitter and base? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Time or order your SMD Challenge Board!
On Sun, Oct 22, 2006 at 07:58:55PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/smd-challenge/ Is the silkscreen faulty as indicated in the pictures on the homepage? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB: Save called Open
I suggest the button Open in the Save dialog was renamed to Save. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB: See 'Problems' in the manual
pcb-200601414 README says See 'Problems' in the manual. There is no section 'Problems' in the README. What manual is it referring to? Would it be possible to put URL of the manual into the README? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB: Save called Open
On Thu, Oct 12, 2006 at 03:01:48PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: I suggest the button Open in the Save dialog was renamed to Save. Which GUI ? I reainstalled to the latest version and now it says OK. No need to worry anymore :) CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Save layout, lose data
I did in PCB: File - Save layout and then quit. It asked me: OK to lose data? OK - Cancel. I wonder if the Save doesn't work or of the lose data is indicated improperly. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Barrie Gilbert
Anyone knows what exactly is called Gilbert cell? How many transistors does it actually have? And does it have a tanh nonlinear response from one differential input or is there some kind of split current mirror used to factor this nonlinearity out and get a perfect linear analog multiplier? Is it possible to make a well working Gilbert cell with ordinary non-matched transistors? And btw do you know what translinear mean? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Barrie Gilbert
On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:55:35AM -0400, Dan McMahill wrote: Bob Paddock wrote: On Wednesday 06 September 2006 03:36, Karel Kulhavy wrote: Anyone knows what exactly is called Gilbert cell? The Gilbert Cell is named after Barrie Gilbert of Analog Devices, invented in 1968. http://www.ieee.org/organizations/pubs/newsletters/sscs/jan03/jssc_classic.html The Gilbert Cell has become common in RF designs, used as a double balanced mixer. It is a four quadrant multiplier. Somewhere in my files I have a paper by Gilbert where he states that he never really meant it to be used the way, that has been the most common usage. He recommended an obscure division technique instead. I'll dig the paper up this evening. Bonus points to anyone who can name the real inventor of the mixer in question here. Hint: It wasn't Gilbert even though it's called a Gilbert cell. How many transistors does it actually have? http://rfdesign.com/mag/503rfdf1.pdf Is it possible to make a well working Gilbert cell with ordinary non-matched transistors? And btw do you know what translinear mean? One set of frequencies is translated linearly to an other set of frequencies. Using non-matched transistors will not be linear, resulting in spurious outputs. no. That is not what translinear means. Translinear circuits in this context refers to the class of circuits where you find a loop consisting just of bipolar junctions and have an equal number in each direction. The idea is that Ic = Is * exp(Vbe/Vt) where Is depends on the device, Vt is the thermal voltage (kT/q), Ic is collector current, and Vbe is the base-emitter voltage. If you write out KVL around this loop of base-emitter junctions you get: sum( Vbe_cw ) = sum( Vbe_ccw) where Vbe_cw = junctions where the voltage is positive in the clockwise direction and Vbe_ccw = junctions where the voltage is positive in the counter clockwise direction. Now assume all the Is are the same and some simple math shows that product( Ic_cw ) = product( Ic_ccw ) Exactly, like MOSFET is a silicon analogue of electron tube, BJT is a silicon analogue of slide ruler. For example, you can build a circuit where I1 * I2 = I3 * I4 and you can build a squaring circuit or a square root circuit. These circuits work on large signals. What if spurious resistances kick in? Or the signal gets so large that one transistor heats up? Doesn't it crook then? CL I'll try to find a reference to post tonight and I'll sketch out a more concrete example. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Barrie Gilbert
On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 06:55:35AM -0400, Dan McMahill wrote: Bob Paddock wrote: On Wednesday 06 September 2006 03:36, Karel Kulhavy wrote: Anyone knows what exactly is called Gilbert cell? The Gilbert Cell is named after Barrie Gilbert of Analog Devices, invented in 1968. I like how in one article Barrie Gilbert says how modern design is plagued with DSPs and digital thinking instead of people trying to figure what wonders are lying in the analogue domain. He seems to be the guy who uses elegance as the design rule of thumb. Do you know about more people like him? CL http://www.ieee.org/organizations/pubs/newsletters/sscs/jan03/jssc_classic.html The Gilbert Cell has become common in RF designs, used as a double balanced mixer. It is a four quadrant multiplier. Somewhere in my files I have a paper by Gilbert where he states that he never really meant it to be used the way, that has been the most common usage. He recommended an obscure division technique instead. I'll dig the paper up this evening. Bonus points to anyone who can name the real inventor of the mixer in question here. Hint: It wasn't Gilbert even though it's called a Gilbert cell. How many transistors does it actually have? http://rfdesign.com/mag/503rfdf1.pdf Is it possible to make a well working Gilbert cell with ordinary non-matched transistors? And btw do you know what translinear mean? One set of frequencies is translated linearly to an other set of frequencies. Using non-matched transistors will not be linear, resulting in spurious outputs. no. That is not what translinear means. Translinear circuits in this context refers to the class of circuits where you find a loop consisting just of bipolar junctions and have an equal number in each direction. The idea is that Ic = Is * exp(Vbe/Vt) where Is depends on the device, Vt is the thermal voltage (kT/q), Ic is collector current, and Vbe is the base-emitter voltage. If you write out KVL around this loop of base-emitter junctions you get: sum( Vbe_cw ) = sum( Vbe_ccw) where Vbe_cw = junctions where the voltage is positive in the clockwise direction and Vbe_ccw = junctions where the voltage is positive in the counter clockwise direction. Now assume all the Is are the same and some simple math shows that product( Ic_cw ) = product( Ic_ccw ) For example, you can build a circuit where I1 * I2 = I3 * I4 and you can build a squaring circuit or a square root circuit. These circuits work on large signals. I'll try to find a reference to post tonight and I'll sketch out a more concrete example. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Barrie Gilbert
On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 09:55:09AM -0400, Dan McMahill wrote: John Dozsa wrote: If you have used a Tektronix plug-in style Oscilloscope, 74XX series, you have seen some of Barrie's early design work. He designed the stroke generator that creates the data characters on the screen, e.g., the volts and time scales. It's not a raster scan that forms the characters but the CRT beam is actually deflected in the pattern needed to create the symbol. He worked for Tek at the time, before his employment at Analog Devices. John Dozsa I love those. Here's some other geek trivia. The plug-in unit has to tell the mainframe what character to display. So what sort of signaling is it? Obviously it is a quantized signal since there are a finite # of characters youcan display, but is it a parallel binary bus? Serial binary data? (Hint: neither of these). I'll wait for a bit before sharing the answer :) Some kind of multivele analog signal? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Showcasing gEDA on Wikinews?
Hello I got an idea how to showcase gEDA with Ronja on Wikinews. I got an idea to write a reportage about how hardware based solely on the idea of open source is getting into usage by substantial amount of people. There are 128 installations of Ronja worldwide, most of them in Czech Republic and anout 24 in Prague. The news could explain that the toolchain (gEDA among others) is free software, that the project is using the same philosophy, and a resulting product, which can be built yourself or commercially, is getting into a little bit widespread use. Some people are allegedly already building Ronja's for money for other people. The main area where they are used is a network where people can communicate for free, get cheap Internet connection and use the technology to raise their qualification in the IT area, most importantly. I think the fact a technology of a substantially complicated usable product is completely transparent for the end user is something new - do you think it's so important that it makes sense to pester the readers of wikinews with it? Anyway if you say yes I think it would be better if someone else wrote it to prevent a heavy bias I would probably put inadvertently into the text. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Complicated shapes and vector graffic in PCB
Hello I would like to design a stylish Ronja surfboard wax scraper in PCB and let it be manufactured. I would like to have a semicircular section of the board edge which is only couple of degrees, not 45 or multiples. I also need to have the Ronja logo and some Hawaiian flowers imported as vector graphics. Is this possible with PCB? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: footprint creation HOWTO
On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 01:53:23AM +0200, kmk wrote: Hello Karel. Thank you, for putting the footprint creation HOWTO on the internet. It saved me a lot of guesswork and frustration :-) Just two minor remarks: * There is a typo in the command at step 15. There is a comma missing in between 4 and mil. Thanks, fixed. * step 27 only works if pinout shows number in is enabled. For me it works regardless whether pinout shows number is enabled or disabled. CL Keep up the good work! ---(kaimartin)--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lilalaser.de/blog ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: SMD design Twister2 released
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 06:58:39AM +0100, Peter TB Brett wrote: On Sunday 06 August 2006 23:39, Karel Kulhavy wrote: Twister2 is the first SMD module of Ronja. The building is simpler and faster than it's predecessor Twister. Twister2 is smaller and takes 1.4W power less. As far as the building guide is concerned, it would be nice to do a functional test *before* soldering it into the box. Sometimes inspection isn't enough to find faults (e.g. borked ICs). According to the guide, the functional test is done before the lids are closed. At that time, there is plenty of access space from both sides. There's only the thin metal rim around the board in place at that time. CL Peter -- Fisher Society publicity officerhttp://tinyurl.com/o39w2 CUSBC novices, match and league secretary http://tinyurl.com/mwrc9 Quake II build tools maintainer http://tinyurl.com/fkldd v2sw6YShw7$ln5pr6ck3ma8u6/8Lw3+2m0l7Ci6e4+8t4Eb8Aen5+6g6Pa2Xs5MSr5p4 hackerkey.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: SMD design Twister2 released
I have released Twister2 http://ronja.twibright.com/twister2/ Twister2 is the first SMD module of Ronja. The building is simpler and faster than it's predecessor Twister. Twister2 is smaller and takes 1.4W power less. Twister2 has 8x less residual radiation (better shielding) as Twister. Twister2 was designed as a bugfix after someone complained that Ronja is interfering with his TV when Ronja is installed close to the antenna. Photogalery in various states of building: http://images.twibright.com/tns/1e5d.html CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Colophonium cup
I was in IKEA and found in the kitchen part an interesting little cup to put colophonium in. It's meant as a salt and pepper box. It's a shallow heavy little round cup made of stone. There are two in a pack, one white and one black. The advantage is that it's not going to travel around the table. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Bugreport gschem sources.nw was invalid
I removed the directory, unpacked the tgz again and tried again and now it compiles fine. I must have broken the unpacking in the middle (but I don't remember doing that). CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Cannot compile gschem on OpenBSD 3.9
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/geda-gschem-20060123$ ./configure configure: error: cannot find sources (noweb/gschem.nw) in . or .. What should I do to compile? CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Another missing dependency in PCB README
It could't find gdlib-config. I installed OpenBSD package called gd-2.0.33p3.tgz and it went away. So the missing prerequisity is probably called gd, libgd or gdlib. Please investigate the official name and official project homepage URL and add it into the README. CL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: 2-layer design recommendations
On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 10:53:02PM -0700, Steve Meier wrote: There is also an environmental and a pcb friendly reason to leave copper in unused areas of boards. The reason is that copper left on the board is copper that isn't placed in the solvent. Thus the solvent lasts longer (pcb manufacturor friendly) and the copper doesn't have to be reclaimed from the solvent (environmentaly friendly). I would ask your pcb manufacturor though if they prefer a solid plain, isolated little squares or total removal. And when you throw the used product into landfill, you throw more copper into landfill. CL Steve Meier ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
