Re: gEDA-user: cheapest pcb manufacturer that does silkscreen/soldermask
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:05 PM, yamazakir2 yamazak...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have been using 4pcb for awhile now and even for a small board the cheapest option they have is $250 for an order of 5 boards (their minimum quantity). They have a bare bones (no silk/mask) option that I have been using that allows you to order 2 for $60 which is a great option most of the time. I'm a student, so I use 4PCB's $33 each special at a quantity of 1 whenever I order from them. Is this: http://www.33each.com/ what you're using? It says $33 each, min qty 4, Get 1 EXTRA PCB FREE!. I have order their silk/mask board for $250 a few times and their quality is superb however I'm looking for something cheaper and perhaps has a lower minimum (maybe 2). I'm willing to deal with a lead time of up to 2 weeks. Any suggestions? My student IEEE chapter was brainstorming fundraising options, thought about starting a panelizing service (we later decided to do mylar stencils instead), and so I threw together the following little text file with some links: Seeedstudio http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-2-layer-5cm5cm-max-p-513.html?cPath=64_12 $20 for 5cm by 5cm in qty 10 $40 for 10cm by 10cm in qty 10 See also open-source version Propaganda PCB Batch PCB http://batchpcb.com/index.php/Products $10 setup + $2.50/in^2 or $8/in^2 iTeadStudio http://iteadstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=indexcPath=19 $12 for 5 pcs. 5x5cm ExpressPCB http://www.expresspcb.com/ExpressPCBHtm/Costs.htm Requires proprietary windows-only PCB software! Otherwise the cheapest single-board full-spec service. $51 Dorkbot PDX http://pcb.laen.org/ $5/in^2 for 3 copies AdvancedCircuits - 33Each http://www.33each.com/ http://www.4pcb.com/index.php?load=contentpage_id=130 You guessed it…$33 each. Min qty applies to non-students E-TekNet http://www.e-teknet.com/ $20, min qty 4 Gold Phoenix http://www.goldphoenixpcb.biz/ $89 for 100 sq in and $99 for 155 sq in Opencircuits list of manufacturers: (many not in this list, I picked the ones I was familiar with) http://www.opencircuits.com/PCB_Manufacturers LadyAda's cost calculator http://www.ladyada.net/library/pcb/costcalc.html Hope that helps! -- Kevin Vermeer ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: GNUduino - Arduino made with gEDA
On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Dave N6NZ [1]n...@arrl.net wrote: Good on you. It really gripes me when open hardware projects use something like Eagle for the schematic/pcb flow. The current object of my derision for doing that is the RepRap foundation. Today there are at least two reasonable choices for open source schematic and pcb design -- why do open hardware projects go with closed-source tool flows? I boggle. -dave Agreed. I don't have time to click through all the signatories of the OSHW definition ( [2]http://freedomdefined.org/OSHW ) but I know that several of the businesses (Adafruit, DIYdrones, and Sparkfun are on the top of the list) call themselves 'open' because they have Eagle design files. What can we do to gEDA to make it more accessible to these folks? Or, how can we convince these folks and/or their customers that they're in violation of the OSHW license: 2. Necessary Software If the hardware requires software, embedded or otherwise, to operate properly and fulfill its essential functions, then the documentation requirement must also include at least one of the following: The necessary software, released under an OSI-approved open source license, or other sufficient documentation such that it could reasonably be considered straightforward to write open source software that allows the device to operate properly and fulfill its essential functions. Kudos to Jeffrey for adhering to true open-source design! -- Kevin Vermeer References 1. mailto:n...@arrl.net 2. http://freedomdefined.org/OSHW ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Method to create symbol for enhanced ICs with many pins
Tamas Szabo sza2k...@freemail.hu writes: I would create a schematic symbol for AT91SAM7 device: 64 pins, lots of them with multiplexed functions. 1. I can number pins round, 1 to 64 sequentially: [snip] 2. I can separate pins by functions, without keeping the pins' order: [snip] Furthermore, since the above mentioned device has at least 3 function for 32 pins, it is more difficult to setup a suitable pin placement applying the second option. It is only really difficult if you're working on a breakout board or other generalized schematic, and have to try to make all possible configurations look good. A normal project will have these peripherals hardwired to a peripheral using only 1 of their functions, so it's a very easy task to organize the pins logically. By the way, I saw the first option in many places (for example my company also provide schematic this way). In my estimation, the reasoning behind this practice is not because it's the most logical, but because it's the easiest to execute and to coordinate. The draftsman doesn't have to make any decisions and different symbols from the same company by different draftsmen will all look the same. However, since in my opinion schematic is a logical thing, I prefer the second option. Which is the better solution? I agree that the schematic is a logical thing, and prefer the second option, but in the end it's a matter of personal preference. I'd suggest grouping the pins by one of two functions: PIO/Peripheral vs. chip management. Some, like JTAG and USB (if you have that) could go on either side. The power side will largely stay the same between projects. On the other side, you can either order the pins by their GPIO number, or group them by peripherals. See an example of the former by Bob Starr for the Eagle library here: http://imgur.com/D96os.png - as you said, it will be hard to do the second in a general manner. If you want to try, I'd suggest using the chip block diagram on page 5 of the datasheet as a starting point. My preferred method, Option 4, would be to make one symbol like the linked image, and then shuffle the pins around for your project. Then, when you have a different project with different peripheral use patterns, it's easy to copy the symbol and move the pins around into the grouping that fits your project. Save the master symbol in your global symbol folder, and the customized symbols in each project folder. This does make comparing schematics between projects more difficult, but it's likely that the peripheral you're investigating in this case will be grouped in both schematics. -- Kevin Vermeer ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Method to create symbol for enhanced ICs with many pins
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Tamas Szabo sza2k...@freemail.hu wrote: I know this sounds a silly idea, and I never found similar in any schematic editor, but wouldn't it be possible to move pins dynamically on the edge of the device in gschem as simply as moving any other attribute like refdes, value, etc? I think that approach was my Option 4. I've never had to do this in my month using gEDA, so I assumed that it would work as it did in other EDA tools. kaimartin, are you saying that simply swapping the positions (just the Y components, even) of a pin on a symbol will cause gnetlist to break? -- Kevin Vermeer ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Another free schematic/PCB tool
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: Some free-as-in-beer capture and layout software has been released by RS Components: http://www.designspark.com/pcb On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:56 PM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: You have to sign up for their spam to enable the software, though. This came up back in early June. I read the first line of the article here - http://www.eeproductcenter.com/embedded/brief/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=225702306# - which claims: The first fully featured PCB design tool available free of charge to all without limitation is the claim made by RS Components for DesignSpark PCB. Unfortunately, after reading further: - It's not the first at all - gEDA came out a long time ago, and some other PCB design tools are even older. - It's not freeit just doesn't cost any money. - It's not without limitations, you have to join the DesignSpark community, and give them your: Email address, First and last name, Company, and Job Role so they can better sell their ads to you. Regardless, I installed it (On Windows, there is no Mac/*nix option) and gave it a quick run-through, and found that: -It asked if I wanted to update automatically, and I said no. I am confident of this-it gave me a window describing how to manually update later. It then proceeded to update automatically anyways. I closed it, and thought I'd try again, but subsequently, opening the program caused the update check window to open, then the splash screen was displayed, then the update happened, (this all takes about 3 times as long as opening Eagle, or 12 seconds) and then... -It opened not one but two windows. This would be OK if it was a useful controller window and the main app or something like that, but instead it's just this popup: http://imgur.com/jwKyZ.png which does nothing except display the DesignSpark logo and provide a link to their homepage. This window must be closed with the button before focus can proceed to the software. Ctrl-W and Alt-F4 failed to close it (OK, alt-F4 closed the whole program, but that wasn't the desired result.) -It's ugly - Grayish-tan toolbars with with low-contrast brown/tan buttons. CAD tools have never been known for their beautiful graphics (Until Andrew's recent icon set :), but this is nasty. -When adding parts, only the part number, symbol, and footprint can be displayed - No descriptions or common names. Also, no grouping of parts within categories - Every brand drops their components in their own library, scroll to or search for the exact part number (No wildcard search, even - just Contains) After this experience, I removed it with Add/Remove programs (there was no uninstaller). It graciously emptied, but did not remove, the DesignSpark PCB folder it had placed (without my knowledge or approval) in the My Documents folder. The only good news is that, after I removed my DesignSpark membership, they haven't sent me any more spam. -- Kevin Vermeer ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: examples of edge connectors
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:18 PM, David Griffith dgri...@cs.csubak.edu wrote: Can someone point me to something on making gold-plated edge connectors? I'm trying to find the footprints and how to tell the fabber that gold needs to be there. -- David Griffith dgri...@cs.csubak.edu On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:56 AM, timecop time...@gmail.com wrote: Just make regular pads and put them to the edge of PCB. Then tell them you either want ENIG coating for entire board (you do anyway if you're solderpasting) or ask to do gold fingers just for the edge connector part. You can also just leave them as bare copper, but that probably wont last long. EING coating is not the same as the gold fingers process. EING will produce a very thin layer of gold (which is necessary for good solder joints, and also much cheaper than thick gold over the whole board). Using EING for an edge connector will provide little to no benefit as compared to a standard board. See this link for a reference on EING: http://www.ami.ac.uk/courses/topics/0143_cfng/index.html#2 which states: The ‘immersion gold’ plating process self-limits at around 0.05–0.1µm. Not only is this beneficial from the cost point of view, but this also reduces the possibility of gold embrittlement caused by the formation of a Au4Sn intermetallic phase. [Note that this process is not the same as that used to electroplate ‘gold finger’ edge connections]. On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:57 AM, DJ Delorie d...@delorie.com wrote: I suggest a phone call or email to ask them what they want you to say :-) Yup, probably the best plan. When you call, also ask if they bevel the edges for you - Most places will. -- Kevin Vermeer @David - Did I do the non-top-posting thing right? gmail seems to want to do it exactly wrong, and I want to avoid messing with this list (which seems to alternate between top-posting and not). This question can fork a new thread if it needs to, or just a PM if you want. First post, BTW. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
