Re: gEDA-user: silkscreen styles
Hi Could you point out a specific example? I can't guess what you're talking about. I think he's talking about this: http://www.tablix.org/~avian/blog/images/blog/20070716t131612-pict0002-m.jpg Silkscreen at the bottom center of the photo is in reverse. This style is often used by Sony to mark important components like big chips, not little SMD resistors like in this unusual example. This is a feature of PCB I also missed a couple of times. Best regards Tomaz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Request for button icons
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Here are the xpm files. Pick out what you think is the best. The only differences are the colors of the arrow. My favourite is Place3. These are great. I also vote for Place3. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGl1NxsAlAlRhL9q8RArmyAJ42MCFZIeIBdhSwkmJzoM3sdFqB8QCfenGC OSZXJW/KThSrzvTQ9NKKah8= =12Kz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Component selector dialog
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ack. gschem and pcb are about the only applications that make me press escape during standard operation. Maybe it's because I'm a regular vi user, but I like the fact that a few taps on the escape key will bring an application to a known state. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGk+GesAlAlRhL9q8RAsvtAJ9sp4/FQCcEJ3VY1SpVN7VjVgIe6wCfe9UG WLyLHd0UHxyAcjbNFjGOUfE= =07Sl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb autorouter ignores grid?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi is there an option to force pcb autorouter to route traces only on the selected grid? IIRC you would have to do some major changes to the routing algorithm in order to force it to place routes only on the grid. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGk+GwsAlAlRhL9q8RAhO4AJ4ouFBVWJ5y4z+EDpMuz1Hcwi7l/gCg4un2 Gy63drNzo2BtB7bf/Ik4cO8= =KF45 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Component selector dialog
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Maybe put Place button on the right side of the drop-down menu. GNOME HIG recommends only buttons that have to do with the dialog itself should be at the bottom row. Do you mean below the preview widget? I want to put an Edit button there... I think you have enough space there to have Place and Edit buttons side-by-side. The drop-down menu doesn't need to be that wide. You could also place Edit button below the Place button: | Drop down |v| | Place | | Edit | If you really think Hide button is needed, at least change the label and icon. Place and Hide buttons do essentially the same, but use completely different icons and labels. It's currently not obvious at all what the Hide button does. If you can suggest a better label icon, I'd very much appreciate it. I honestly don't have a clue what to do with the thing. Place and Place hide would be a better choice of labels IMO. Can't think of an icon though. Please don't make me push Refresh when working with the file system. Why not use inotify on systems that support it? You could only add a Refresh button when gschem is built on a system that does not support it. See the arguments given in my reply to Bas. I did some research and it does look tricky to implement this cleanly within a purely GTK application (even without problems with different library sources you mentioned). Most applications I've seen use inotify through GNOME VFS, which is probably out of the question for libgeda. Also, more important question: what is so wrong with pressing a perfectly obvious and discoverable button? It does exactly what it says it does, in a totally predictable fashion. I just think it's wrong because it's unnecessary. Computers should be able figure out by themselves when it's time to refresh a list. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGkSBKsAlAlRhL9q8RAntxAJ4qqzDrhl0Pzhpq8YzBmpU4g56/lACghepx INJRIU9eUx42Z39IoT/0XME= =6KbP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Component selector dialog
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Good point. Revised version (Hide icon from Bert): http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ptbb2/gschem-place1.png Get rid of the Hide button! Move the Place button to the right the Close button (close is the hide function). Refresh to the left of the dialog (...?). Agreed. Maybe put Place button on the right side of the drop-down menu. GNOME HIG recommends only buttons that have to do with the dialog itself should be at the bottom row. If you really think Hide button is needed, at least change the label and icon. Place and Hide buttons do essentially the same, but use completely different icons and labels. It's currently not obvious at all what the Hide button does. Please don't make me push Refresh when working with the file system. Why not use inotify on systems that support it? You could only add a Refresh button when gschem is built on a system that does not support it. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGj2TDsAlAlRhL9q8RAp6NAJ9Ek6v8vydUAcWcBV6XMgPKuynwewCcCxB+ KgR9kQzOwdNZ2trKZfzUAYY= =K3an -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Request for button icons
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I made another try with the IC. Now it's only something like SO8 instead of SO14, and has (nearly) black pins I would recommend sticking either with Tango [1] or GNOME [2] icon style guidelines. Especially Tango seems to be becoming a standard with GTK applications. Best regards Tomaz [1] http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project [2] http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/icons.html -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGjVQAsAlAlRhL9q8RAvRjAJ9l5sKOZa0NlkHSn9G5xBnT7KGSogCgqT6i eSopxA8FMNeBPhTc9CdswI4= =ycuS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Titleblock initally there but too small
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I'm new to gEDA and my problems start already with the titleblock. With my vanilla installation there is already a titleblock in gschem although the tutorial says insert one. Me having to use a ATmega128, it does not fit into the titelbock so I wonder how can I change the size of the initial titelblock or of the ATmega128? I generally find all titleblocks to be too small relative to the sizes of other symbols, so I don't use them in my schematics (except for the CVS titleblock which doesn't include a frame) You can't resize symbols (titleblock is just another symbol as far gschem is concerned), but you can delete the default titleblock and use a bigger one (search for title in the component selector). Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGgk0gsAlAlRhL9q8RAjyZAKCQFK9ZnssncgybdD9MTQ7uKlL7NQCdGODo J2ekKdkH0lSvjFblfL74n/Q= =guko -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: How to?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Thermal finger width is proportional to the copper annulus gap. So, increasing the copper gap also increases the thermal finger width. Why is thermal finger width implemented in this way? I think it would be better if finger width would be proportional to the radius of the pin. Larger pins usually have larger currents which also means they require wider thermal fingers. I don't see why the gap is important here. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGZ9wpsAlAlRhL9q8RAmVDAKCcvzXWSyRJyX5azecoyJZISPNs2ACfSSxz T0MWRl9BwsUXXj1SjPzYW/s= =BMpk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: [pcb] drill helper
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Good idea, what would be the much smaller drill hole? If it's too small, it can disappear with toner transfer, if it's too big it doesn't center the drill. I would suggest ~0.4 mm. I suggest using a formula like this: When using the drill helper, make drills holes 1/3 or 1/4 of their size, but no smaller than 30mil. I can easily drill 30mil holes without any special helpers and 30mil is large enough for any etching technique. On the other hand I do have problems centering drills for larger mounting holes. A 30mil hole in the copper is too small to have any mechanical effect on a large drill bit, so it would need to be proportionally larger for larger holes. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGSZ1qsAlAlRhL9q8RAmN7AKC0TAo+uqybwmvMW+6TbeEMpnZe8QCgqflF kDWXbGw+rqriEhSvDdISLZQ= =4JMf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Icons and better GNOME integration for gEDA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone I've made a package with o Icons for gschem, pcb, and gerber files, o mimetype definitions, o application associations It makes applications from gEDA play a little nicer with the GNOME desktop. It may also work with KDE (since I tried to follow freedesktop.org recommendations), but I haven't tested it there. http://www.tablix.org/~avian/geda/desktop/geda-desktop-1.0.tar.gz Installation instructions are included. I was going to make a patch that would add these files to the official gEDA distribution, but after some searching I wasn't able to find any documentation or examples that would show me how to include things like this in a source package. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGOhBosAlAlRhL9q8RAnZ8AJ9wEONGLAYFgfii4Wt4g5pdmgXT0wCff0TC nOVpbWcIbEnpUgu6nspeH00= =vDsH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCBs using desktop inkjet
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Hmmm I guess we will be forced to go 100% surface mount, unless they can figure out a way to print holes. I'm more interested in how you would mount any kind of device on such a circuit. You probably can't solder anything to paper or plastic film. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGKIa1sAlAlRhL9q8RAnoDAJ9EOKWldGAl4Z9c/bfrlrZO9fDLpgCfUUdG menKtBadibvZTWXVLYAQ4rc= =Hu2F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: home-made dremel drill press
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I'm thinking of switching from toner transfer to photomask. Then, I can drill the board first and use the holes to line up the print. I've been using masks almost exclusively to make my boards. I don't think that drilling holes for components before exposure is a good idea. If you drill before applying the photoresist, you will get uneven thickness around the holes due to surface tension. On the other hand if you drill the board when the photoresist is already there you risk damaging it. At least the positiv 20 I'm using is very soft even when dried with hot air and you can easily scratch it (when etching double sided boards I stick little bumps on the board to protect its surface from the bottom of the container with acid) What I do is drill two pilot holes before applying the photoresist in the unusable border around the circuit and use them to align the masks before exposure. It's not perfect though and I have experimented a bit with some other techniques (for example aligning the top and bottom masks before slipping the coated board between them). Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGI7shsAlAlRhL9q8RAvHLAJ4/26QK4R32SgmIpnOlFWixWAmLKACfSvkB QohEifmFD/4s9P2UJv3IRwo= =WhoF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Looking for a project
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Fitzsimons wrote: Does anyone have some good ideas for me? I'm a hardware guy with lots of experience in building radios and audio systems (RF and audio). A few months ago I joined a project to develop a GSM Scanner [1], at the moment we are using a USRP [2] and GnuRadio [3] software to capture and process the RF signals. The basic USRP setup is fairly expensive and even more so if you want to listen to the RX and TX channels. The project on my to-do list would be to combine some of the features of the USRP and SSRP [4], and create a cheaper receiver which is capable of capturing two ranges of frequency's at once. By the way: Some time ago I made a very cheap A/D converter (components cost cca. 50 EUR) that used a modified ethernet adapter on PCI bus. It had maximum 10MHz sampling frequency (TDA8703 IC) I had some problems with reliability of the FIFO buffer but I believe that would be simple so to solve. Maybe you could make something out of it. I later lost interest in software radio and didn't bother to develop this further. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDps1sAlAlRhL9q8RApZvAJ9REa/ew03ZtkLVFmMLak7a5UwRpgCfUYfs XMHrbjHefNnSTDrzqTt2GaA= =ct8M -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB change - old install can't read new cvs?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Is there some change in the current CVS release of PCB that causes the earlier 20060822 version to not be able to read in a file saved by the current CVS version? The error I get is below: ERROR parsing file 'memnetout.pcb' line:10 description: 'syntax error' Older versions don't like the PolyArea[...] line. I don't know what that line means, but I have removed it on a couple of occasions with a text editor with no apparent side effects. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDtqlsAlAlRhL9q8RAlD6AKDllBtJJQ+cWu9dIAT310cgWDpRDwCaAwIw 37dpwMtwpy1p0XiOzNYTfw0= =2svA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Flame about XML (was: Some footprints I tried to create)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Michael Great post and I respect your view. It's quite an achievement if you still manage today with only an ASCII terminal. I do share some of your points. Almost everything I write for example is made in vi and Latex, with tabular data entered in Oleo. I do however run a X session - it's hard to deny that graphical user interfaces don't have large benefits for some applications. Design is one example - from electronics to graphics and so on. However a lot of people today when they have a problem first go to a computer and don't even think about using a piece of paper. When in doubt, use less technology. I would like to add that I see the same trend in electronics. Students are taught that you don't need to know much about details for example about amplifier design. You just pick the right chip from the shelf. Analog electronics itself appears to be dying. Adding microcontrollers is advocated as the right answer to all problems. A local magazine for example publishes simple DIY electronics projects - for a couple of years now they all include PIC processors, even for tasks like blinking lights where two transistors would accomplish the same task. However I fail to see why XML format itself is problematic. It is often abused, but it has its proper uses - The art of Unix programming has a nice comparison between file formats and when the use of XML is warranted. On the other hand I think that switching from the current PCB format to an XML-based one would create much more problems than it would solve. Oh, and I don't see why you couldn't store an XML file on punched tape in the same way as any other ASCII file. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+SZ6sAlAlRhL9q8RAkdWAJ9kss5mtbhIu0dZKIF1A5HgHv9D0QCcCLnI 2blPXsYrExdjddyPBeOUPvA= =gVQ0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Fitting a hobbyist design into someone else's form factor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi You may want to try using a digital camera to take a picture of the board or enclosure. Use image-magick/gimp to simplify and scale the image. You could then print out a piece of paper, verify it matches the enclosure and take your measurements with a transparent rule. I did that once to draw a sticker for a control panel with signs and scales for knobs at the right places. It worked pretty well for that purpose, but I would recommend it if you need millimeter accuracy. I usually use a caliper to measure the casing, convert measurements to mils and use those values in PCB. Maybe there is a way to use a image as a background inside PCB. There is: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/bg-image.html Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFvizvsAlAlRhL9q8RAuqPAJ4hjfUPxcDzuW4gAKcSW09lzwVyAwCgoVme rEZ7E+sgDwtyysXWXnbYzpg= =Ri5O -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Galaksija motherboard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi The CircuitCAM software also has some settings to increase the amount of copper cleared around pads without rubbing out the entire board. (It simply runs the router around a pad several times with an increasing radius.) This should take care of most soldering problems. Of course, if you don't want islands of dead copper on your board, then rubbing out the whole thing is they way to go. After soldering all components on the board I can say that even with rubbing out the whole board I had a lot of problems with unintentional shorts to lines running close to pins on the component side. It's very hard to solder such a complex double sided board without through-plated holes and soldermask. You just use up a lot more router bits that way. Yes, I was concerned about the wear of the router bits. But since people in the lab proposed the rub out and it's their machine, who am I to argue with them :) Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFu6ZfsAlAlRhL9q8RAnhwAKDWmUw/PpxyPqiyd7YghkdqwS0FzgCg28Gx isGrmzNP/PpXdOAstWHRIsU= =lTxX -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Label Selection.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I have another question regarding labels: When I move a label that is attached to an element from the library, a red line will be drawn from the label to the element it is connected to. This helps identify the element that the label belongs to. However, when I move a label that is attached to an element I made using the convert selection to element function, that red line is drawn from the label to a seemingly random location on the screen. Why is that? When making the element I double checked that I didn't select anything that didn't belong to it. I'm guessing that something is wrong with the position of the center of the element (if I zoom in a lot, I can see a small gray diamond at the position that the line points to). I'm using CVS version of the GTK hid. Best regards Tomaz On 26 Jan 2007, at 2:34, Harry Eaton wrote: --- Lares Moreau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OKay really weird.. IT's a bug in the GTK version. If you select the label then try to move it, it will not move. However if you deselect the label it can be moved easily. Odd.. -Lares Actually whenever you want to move one single thing (anything!) you sould just drag it *without* selecting it. Moving selections is actually internally a cut and paste operation. Because element names belong to the elements they can't be separately cut. (If the element and it's name are selected they can move together as part of a selection.) In generally you probably don't want to move a group of objects including element names but not including the elements that they belong to so it is prohibited. It's not a bug, it's a feature. ___ _ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFudNIsAlAlRhL9q8RAthYAJ93ahFV1BegSHg8Tm6fLMxNMH+L3QCg0xr5 KqmlPCYs52k05WrgFAdyoRk= =Rkvx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Galaksija motherboard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I would just like to show you some pictures of a PCB I got back from manufacturing yesterday. This is a motherboard for a redesigned 1980's Yugoslav computer named Galaksija. The design and layout was done completely with gEDA tools (gschem and PCB). The board is 230x160mm in size and was manufactured using an automatic milling machine. http://www.tablix.org/~avian/galaksija/mb A lot of thanks to everyone for providing these great free software tools for electronic design! Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFuF4hsAlAlRhL9q8RAvFUAKDkQP9JAqkj27kjipKMYkcBpd9towCeNbAa 3RWn74vnTINPXpPUvZQ06dc= =dYPP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB gerber export problem - update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I checked in a patch for this today, which has a globl aperture list yet shares definitions across files. Please try it and see if CircuitCAM likes it. I can confirm that gerber files now work properly with CircuitCAM version 3.2 (258). Thanks. Best regards Tomaz Solc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFsRJ+sAlAlRhL9q8RAu8nAKCrfP0xRo2Bw6UGJ2GCN7c22ZcCPQCcCcIM uLM6CCjQ/+f/2KFzfNx7aiE= =G+yI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Some pcb pecularities
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi 3) Auto router and manual line drawing tool interpret line clearance differently. If clearance is set to 10 mil for a particular route style, the auto routed lines will punch a 10 mil gap into polygons. With manually drawn lines the gap is just 5 mil. I'd say, the auto router is correct. I haven't used the autorouter with any designs that included polygons, but I've never noticed any problems with clearances for manually drawn lines (in 20060822 and the CVS version). If I set clearance to 10 mil, the gap between the line and the polygon is exactly 10 mil (I've just tried that with both PCB versions). 5) The PCB subwindows (library, netlist, etc) don't receive official focus. I. e. the window manager (metacity) does not highlight its frame and some of the decorations won't work. E. g., dragging the window title fails to move the subwindow. I'm also using PCB with metacity and the focus for subwindows works fine for me (I'm using focus-follows-mouse mode. When the mouse is in a window its titlebar is highlighted). Dragging them around also works. What do you mean by dragging the window title fails to move the subwindow? Do you think subwindows should move when you move the main window? Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFrjzysAlAlRhL9q8RAvIdAJ0eaVoTN46RA+KSsKQwgAUdBOukHwCdHuS9 bivg7zGXsOaHZcD6MIDxu+M= =C/Lz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Some pcb pecularities
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Just updated to metacity v 2.14.5-2 as packaged by debian/etch. Dragging works now. Still, the titlebar is not highlighted when the mouse moves in (I made sure to set focus_mode to mouse). If I set focus_mode to click, the pcb sub windows don't highlight on mouse left-mouse-button-click. This works with like gschem. So it does not seem to be an issue with metacity. I've tried this again with the PCB version packaged with Debian Etch. Yes, the titlebar isn't highlighted when you click on the window or when the mouse crosses it. Package versions used: metacity 2.14.5-2, pcb 20060822-1 However the latest CVS version of PCB works fine on my machine, so it appears that somebody already fixed that bug. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFrm9tsAlAlRhL9q8RArl5AKCXv6P6aWaKd3eRMYUychk6Md0dowCgnpu8 NUjm3MceVdxtJj5KjwgU07Y= =AMai -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Some pcb pecularities
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi According to the documentation, clearance is the amount added to the thickness of the line, so a 10 mil clearance should result in a 5 mil gap on each side of the line. At least, that's what the file format spec says. I tried this on my machine: On PCB 20060822 autorouted lines have half the clearance value that is set in the route style dialog. If you set 30 mil in the dialog then autorouted lines will have 15 mil gaps. Hand drawn lines have 30 mil gaps. On CVS version of PCB autorouted lines have the same clearance as hand drawn lines. If you set 30 mil in the dialog all lines have 30 mil gaps. In my opinion the CVS version works correctly. On the other hand the file format spec does seem a bit illogical. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFrnX6sAlAlRhL9q8RAkmyAKDHyI/wFoVvcu+44op8xAQAadaj1wCg1D+R sxKhaqlEMKV0DvY/V1CyCdY= =HBKf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB gerber export problem - update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I'm not sure if this is really fair to call a bug in CircuitCAM. It's a little ambiguous as to whether multiple layers of the same design should have a common aperture definitions. Other gerber software I tried (gerbv and GCPrevue) don't have such problems and I also seem to be the first to notice this problem. So this must be specific to the CircuitCAM software (maybe just that version?) they use at the Faculty. pcb's gerber driver that I wrote (before the HID was introduced) used a common table for all gerber files within the design. The HID gerber driver doesn't seem to do that and I think it should be changed so that it does. The patch makes unique apertures in each file but that quickly uses up apertures. The right way to do it is to have every file use the same D code for the same shape and size. That's the way it used to be. We need to go back to that. I can try to do that, but it will take some larger changes to the gerber HID. The aperture list for example is currently built on-the-go by appending a string. This doesn't allow for a lot of modification. I tried to keep my current patch as small as possible to keep the number of new bugs to a minimum :) Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFqVGVsAlAlRhL9q8RAvAHAJ9hsYKIo6x5Kl3w0w5cRJWsBnslxwCg4o8t PrHNyjA6WySFKXXcRZn/7fo= =L63G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB gerber export problem - update
Hi After spending a couple of hours with our PCB manufacturing staff I found a solution to my problem. I'll try to explain, but please keep in mind that my knowledge of the gerber format is limited to what I learned today... This time I used the latest CVS version of PCB to export my layout to the gerber format (I first had to fix polygons that were displayed differently in the 20060822 snapshot, but that will be subject of another mail). The problem appeared when we tried to import these files into CircuitCAM. If we imported just one layer (for example solder or component copper layer) everything looked fine. But as soon as the second layer was imported the previously imported layer got mangled - line widths were wrong, random rectangles appeared, pin disappeared, etc. We traced the problem to aperture definitions in gerber files. For example, the solder layer has these definitions: %ADD11C,0.0200*% %ADD12C,0.0600*% %ADD13C,0.0300*% ... On the other hand the component layer has these: %ADD11C,0.0300*% %ADD12C,0.0200*% %ADD13C,0.0150*% ... You can see that D11 for example is defined differently in each file. The problem we were having was caused because CircuitCAM updated D11 aperture for the first layer from the second layer we imported. It looks like aperture definitions are shared between layers in this software. The obvious solution was to rename apertures so that each layer has it's own set and names are shared. A simple 'sed' script took care of that (for example replacing D1x with D7x in one file). Now, GCPrevue has no problems with shared aperture names. Neither has gerbv, so obviously this is a problem specific to CircuitCAM. On the other hand people at the laboratory never saw this kind of a problem before (and they assured me they go through gerber files produced by a lot of strange software). I'm guessing that it would be a simple change to fix aperture naming in PCB - it seems that most of the other PCB software out there takes care not to share names. I'm prepared to make a patch if you agree that it would be a good thing to fix this. Best regards Tomaz ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB gerber export problem - update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi That's nasty, but yeah, we can work around it. Here's a patch that adds an option that enables a workaround: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1634337group_id=73743atid=538813 Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFp/F5sAlAlRhL9q8RAqakAJ9rf/YgUkek+FFBLs7lhws0Hgb3IwCgsmq6 laqGWH7C7Ioh4wOhyRYVzMA= =gOrb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB gerber export problem
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Stuart My heretical suggestion: Download GCPrevue and inspect your Gerbers with it. GCPrevue is a very powerful freeware [1] Windoze program for Gerber viewing. It has never failed me. If the polygons look bad in GCPrevue, the PCB has a problem. If the polygons look good in GCPrevue, then your CAM software needs to be configured better. Thanks for your help. I've just tried this. GCPrevue reports 4 errors when I import my gerber files: Ignored unsupported parameter - LN. - From what I could find with Google it seems that this parameter is only for setting layer names and doesn't have any effect on the final image. The shapes on the board look fine except that GCPrevue shows all data layers in the gerber file in the positive way. There's one layer that I think should be subtracted from the shapes. I've tried setting that layer to minus and composite manually with no effect. I'm worried because from the screenshot of CircuitCAM it's obvious that in some places this layer is correctly subtracted from shapes and in some places it is ignored. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFpQvMsAlAlRhL9q8RAqfCAJ4kcr5ozKFaiidznymGoBPeE92C/wCgoGzG g+yzJa/GMRAfJuLQMP1AfJ4= =omqS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Symbol submission
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I would think that if the Symbol Submission was integrated within the GUI, that perhaps the Symbol library may be larger then it is now? Just a thought… I have another idea. How about a GUI that allows you to search for a symbol in the gedasymbols.org database? Something like the current Add component dialog except that it communicates with the gedasymbols.org server. It could show the preview of the symbol and then download it into your local symbol directory. It would be faster than starting up the browser, navigating to gedasymbols.org, searching, and downloading to the proper directory. I think I can hack something like this in a day or two with gtk-perl and http::request. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFgbcwsAlAlRhL9q8RAp7WAJ9ygzL3+Z667wp/LSFGADMpXNq42wCgs+0F dnhZnY/Xj6ec32SpFM4+/SU= =AhFm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: making gnetlist calm down
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi David problem 1: There are lots of floating pins in the design. Is there some way to explicitly tell gnetlist that a pin is intentionally left floating? There is a nc (not connected) symbol in the library. If you connect a floating pin to it gnetlist won't display the warning. I personally don't like to use it because I think it clutters up the schematics. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFeTc/sAlAlRhL9q8RAq+iAJ99OT1HAsQguodBjZZHNr+K0wC3wACfap/d +Aytx1Pa7sHYJ79I4MGFYhg= =vr1W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB postscript printing problem
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone I have a weird problem: when I export my layout to Postscript (File - Export layout - PS) some pages look like a bitmap with resolution of only some 20 dpi. I've photographed an example of a good and a bad printout. See pictures at: http://www.tablix.org/~avian/pcb-print-bug . This from solder layer mask. Other layers look similar (assembly page looks especially ugly with a low-resolution raster). Printouts like this are useless. This problem seems to be limited to only one layout (and of course this happens to be my most complicated layout for which I spent some hundred hours or so). This same setup works fine with other layouts I've made with PCB. Interestingly, the postscript file looks OK in Postscript viewers like gv or evince. It only seems to get converted to low resolution when it's printed. I've tried printing some test postscript files and they are printed in full resolution. I would really appreciate any help. Some info about my system: PCB version 20060822 and CVS, both with GTK HID. (they both have the same problem. CVS version also skips some polygons in the printout, but that's probably unrelated) Debian Testing (updated today) Printer: Xerox DocuPrint P8e (CUPS, using LaserJet PCL 4/5 driver) Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFdz/NsAlAlRhL9q8RAhCMAJsGdzrjqMPxezKAebjD+yBI4v22yACdGQuE nHKnIR+Lh39apkc6binkTGU= =50eD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: LED in reverse
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi How is it possible that the LED withstands 20mA in forward and is destroyed by 0.5mA in reverse? If it has say 1.5V forward and 5V reverse then the amount of energy dissipated is greater in the forward case. I just tried this in practice. I've connected a 1MOhm resistor in series with a LED and a DC voltage source. I've tested some old low-intensity 3mm yellow and green LEDs and a new high-intensity blue 5mm LED. I could not get yellow and green LEDs to break-down. They conducted a negligible current with 250V reverse voltage which is as high as my equipment will go. The blue LED broke down at approximately 25V. There was no flash and the LED didn't light up even when there was 0.2mA flowing through it (which is enough to light it up when connected in the forward direction). This experiment also destroyed the LED because it won't emit any light now, although it still has a I(U) characteristic of a diode. Now I'm a bit skeptical about these results. It seems strange that those yellow and green LEDs can withstand such reverse voltages. However I've used this method before to measure break-down voltages of various transistors and I always got good results. I also don't know why the blue LED was damaged. Transistors I checked this way weren't damaged in the process and the maximum power dissipation in the LED was something like 10 times lower than in normal operation of the LED. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFYF6CsAlAlRhL9q8RAjY5AKCU7rxwtrXRb7e0Q1sklhTEWF+VCwCgtdDP k0lmbqfak15HJ01xvS7nW7Y= =x5IE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: bug or feature in recent versions of PCB?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I have no idea really, but you might learn something by looking at the event stream. Run xwininfo to determine the window ID of the drawing area, then run xev -ID (with the window id) to see the event stream. I can't make out anything useful from the info returned by xev. I don't know the X window system in such detail. Is anyone interested in the output produced by xev? It is a bit too long to send to the mailing list. On an unrelated note, I seem to have stopped receiving messages from the geda mailing list although I did nothing to unsubscribe or block them. I'm not having any problems. Best regards Tomaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFV2gLsAlAlRhL9q8RAnQuAJ4wXXGcgByNbMnf2dtagaFAqMHvIwCglweM 7eZzUAM6ETgw81mlY3N/yTE= =z2N/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: bug or feature in recent versions of PCB?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Have you tried the lesstif one? I've never seen it do what you're seeing. I've just downloaded the latest version out of CVS repository and compiled it with first with lesstif and then with GTK GUI. As far as I can see lesstif doesn't have this bug. But as I said, this behavior is not deterministic, so maybe it's just less common than in GTK. Some more details: The best way I found of reproducing: 50 mils grid, zoom in so you clearly see individual grid points. Draw a series of identical rectangles (something like 300x300 mil) with the line tool. They should be positioned in a grid (so that the edges are aligned with each other and there is for example 200 mil clearance. I can draw an entire screen of rectangles in lesstiff without noticing this bug. In GTK I usually only get to the third rectangle before it starts. None of the options in the menu seem to have any effect. It also happens at other zoom and grid settings. I also tried deleting my ~/.pcb directory. Some info about my system: It's a Debian testing system. The pcb package from Debian (20060822-1) also has this bug. libgtk2 2.8.20 xserver-xorg7.0.22 gcc 4.1.1 I'm running GNOME 2.14.3 The ./configure line I used when compiling CVS version: ./configure --with-gui=gtk --disable-doc --prefix=/home/avian/software Best regards Tomaz Solc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFUvOEsAlAlRhL9q8RApWyAKCr9Ai7XUdXCKJfIZ6WFyFhffp1/gCffTHS EZ8LODmsTX+mihIoV9GM17o= =QOuV -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: bug or feature in recent versions of PCB?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi are you moving the pointer far enough from the center of the screen that you're triggering the auto scrolling? Take a look at the ends of the crosshairs. They may or may not have little boxes on them. Right clicking toggles between auto scroll on and off. Thanks for the tip. I didn't know that right clicking disables the autoscroll. Yes, clicking the right mouse button when drawing a line seems to fix the problem. In other words, the bug only shows itself when there are little boxes at the end of the crosshair. But I'm not drawing lines near the corners of the screen. Sometimes the scrolling happens when the cursor is right in the center of the viewport. Best regards Tomaz Solc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFU2B7sAlAlRhL9q8RAugjAJ9KJxLFOjRt0E4ct0fWOpSZp/GAZwCfZQ0i +yqgfDy+FbkIWrcA+FNM2vk= =v4zZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
