Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
Dave McGuire wrote: On Oct 20, 2006, at 8:26 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: I wonder if you can hand-solder SOJ if you start by putting solder paste on the pads, so that you use the tip to reflow the paste? I've done this with a hot-air pencil. I find it a bit easier than doing SOJs with an iron and wire solder. Do you have to control the temperature of a small tube hot air source to keep it from being too hot, or is it just always hot enough to do damage and you take off the heat when you see melting to avoid damage? I have an unregulated air heater intended for plastic welding, and I imagine it could work somewhat with a variac controlling it's heat input, and pressure regulator and trial and error to find settings. How do the kinds Pace and others make work? Do they have a hot box with quick FB control on it's temp, and go from zero flow to preset flow when you want heat? John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
FYI: They still throb too fast to see (30Hz). Those caps are not very precise. U? What's their tolerance spec? They're X5R's, rated at 10%. That board is going about 700Hz+, so they're 5% off, but I've seen them up to 20% off when measuring them with my multimeter, not that my multimeter is a gold standard either. Keep in mind this is the largest capacitance they can fit in that package; it's 0.01uF! Note that the frequencies rely on the resistor tolerance too, although every one I measured was dead on. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
DJ Delorie wrote: I'll give some feed back to that. I was planing on ordering ten. Not that I'm that bad at soldering, but some people at work could use some practice. Note that ten packs aren't cut up; you'll need a scroll saw or other pcb cutter with a narrow kerf. I use a #2 blade. I'm going to cut up the singles first, and if I have any blades left (they dull quickly on fr4) I'll start working on the ten packs. A Hong Kong/Chinese board fabber, YukShing Circuits, sent me some FR-1 that could be good for a product version of The soldering challenge -- Are YOU up to it? advertised in circuit cellar. His company has edges left over from cutting some panels out and they give 2Kg of these away as a way to drum up business... With FR-1 you would have a built in heat indicator if soldering too long and hot -- the paper-phenolic board will scorch. Cutting them is easy -- score and snap. The dust is much less dangerous than the glass dust that FR-4 makes when sawing it hobby-style, (see silicosis). With soldering irons as the main way to assemble, the extra heat of no-lead solder would not be all over the board, just at the hot iron tip, so not likely to even scorch if melted quickly. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
2nd paragraph. There's all sorts of things should probably be There are all sorts of things. Fixed. from the time the parts get here should maybe from the time the parts get there. I meant *my house*. From the time the parts leave Digikey to the time you finish assembling your board. I don't exactly have a clean room here :-P Last line of the Theory section, oscilloscope is spelled wrong. Fixed. Finally, I'd probably like to see the part number for the 2 transistors and the inverter on the schematic! The attributes are all there, just not visible. I have the manufacturer, their part number, and the vendor (digikey or mouser) and their part number. The circuit gets messy if you make them all visible. Bring the schematic up in gattrib. Looks pretty cool over all. Can't wait to be able to order one. Me too! Oh wait... I've built three so far (two proto, one final). I'm going to use one or two more finals to try out my new hot plate before I start working on the expansion board project (the SOJs almost require reflow). So, I can't wait to get rid of them all ;-) (and I'm not going smaller than 0402 or 0.50mm in future projects if possible). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
DJ Delorie wrote: I've built three so far (two proto, one final). I'm going to use one or two more finals to try out my new hot plate before I start working on the expansion board project (the SOJs almost require reflow). So, I can't wait to get rid of them all ;-) (and I'm not going smaller than 0402 or 0.50mm in future projects if possible). yeah, I've never liked soldering SOJ's. Although I'd rather do those than QFN's. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
yeah, I've never liked soldering SOJ's. Although I'd rather do those than QFN's. I'd have preferred tsops, but I can do trace-between-pads with SOJ, and I was kinda limited given the part I needed (5v SRAM). I wonder if you can hand-solder SOJ if you start by putting solder paste on the pads, so that you use the tip to reflow the paste? But compared to TVSOP and 01005 components, pretty much anything bigger is cake now. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:01:23 -0400 DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One step left before I start taking orders. Almost there! I've pretty much finished the web page and instructions for the challenge board project, and would like to request a review. Specifically, the link marked instruction sheet is the [double sided] page I'm including with the mailed kits. So please review: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/smd-challenge/ I have 25 boards cut out so far, and I've put together five kits (to see how much they weigh) plus a few for myself (mostly marked incomplete because I've been using parts for prototypes). I also packaged up one ten-pack to see how much it weighs (9g!). I've built one board myself, it took about two hours, including testing and corrections (U2's silkscreen is backwards). Photos on the web page and in the instructions. In instructions.pdf, Quantities in the table don't match the board or the resdef numbers. C2-5 Qty 2 - should be 4 R3-4 Qty 4 - should be 2 Other then that.. I want one. -Lares DJ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
In instructions.pdf, Quantities in the table don't match the board or the resdef numbers. C2-5 Qty 2 - should be 4 There are two oscillator configurations, so the schematic has two places for caps for each oscillator. You only populate one each. This is noted in the instructions. I added a note to the web page. R3-4 Qty 4 - should be 2 There are spare 1k's if you want to use those instead of the 150's. This is noted in the instructions. I added a note to the web page. Other then that.. I want one. :-) This review is the last step. I don't want to ship anything out with typos, ambiguities, or unanswered questions (like can I get 100 kits by tomorrow?). So I'd like to see more reviews come in, until it seems like I've got everything covered (hint). I haven't gotten any feedback about the limit two per person either. I figure, you can order more later if needed, and if there are any left. It's a gamble between way too many left and way too many people want them. I figure two lets you lose a few parts and still get a working board ;-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
I'll give some feed back to that. I was planing on ordering ten. Not that I'm that bad at soldering, but some people at work could use some practice. Note that ten packs aren't cut up; you'll need a scroll saw or other pcb cutter with a narrow kerf. I use a #2 blade. I'm going to cut up the singles first, and if I have any blades left (they dull quickly on fr4) I'll start working on the ten packs. Also, the parts are in strips of ten still. I'm trying to make sure everyone who wants one gets one, without (1) having too many left over, or (2) not having enough for everyone. I don't mind sending ten-packs to people who will give them to ten people (that's what they're *for*), but keep in mind I only have ten ten-packs ;-) Also, the schematic has all the part numbers to order, and there's the pcb file, you could *make* a bunch of kits for work. It costs about $200 to make 100 kits (if you panelize with other projects), which is petty cash for a medium sized business. You could add a bunch to each board you make by just adding 0.5 to the short edge, minimum purchase for the parts is at most 20 but you don't get as much of a discount. Also on the $0.37 surcharge for PayPal, is that per board, or per order? It's 2.9% + 0.30 so it depends on the total amount. A ten pack would be $20.90. I'd have to have a different button for each quantity. You could always buy one of those small ads in the back of Circuit Cellar magazine, and sell thousands, or not This is a not-for-profit project. I'd have to charge a lot more for a commercial version (it's labor intensive), and there *are* companies that do this on the large scale (www.practicalcomponents.com) but not for singletons. I tried copypasting from the PDF but that didn't go well. It's a ps2pdf from a .ps print from oowrite. I wonder if it's using UTF-8 ? I'll have to play with it. Replace pdf with sxw to get the oowrite master copy, but you'll need all the graphic files too, they're not embedded (easier to edit that way). I don't recommend relying on black spot on the inside of the LED. That's what it says on their datasheet. And all the LEDs came off one strip, so they all match, and I know the spot is in the right place at the moment ;-) The metal is different on the bottom, but that's not called out on the spec. I would add a * to the C2-C5 in the BOM and the note box about populate only C2 or .. I'd also add a note marker to R3-R4 linking to the you'll have two left over when you are done. Otherwise it just looks like the BOM is wrong in both cases, because the designators do not match the quantities. Done. Won't two AA's power this rather than messing with a 9V and 7805? Hmmm... should, now that I check. I think the original plan was to use a TI xor gate, but it's out of production. *That* might have been 5V only. Note that you may need the 150's instead of 1k's for 3v operation. I'll have to try it and see :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
Won't two AA's power this rather than messing with a 9V and 7805? Hey! It works! And no injection locking either. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
On Oct 20, 2006, at 10:26 PM, DJ Delorie wrote: Won't two AA's power this rather than messing with a 9V and 7805? Hey! It works! And no injection locking either. Schweet! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: smd challenge board status - last step!
Hey! It works! And no injection locking either. Schweet! Yeah, that was definitely a pleasant surprise. Not that I can explain it, of course. But now I have to reconfigure my latest board to use the twin slow oscillators, so I can see the LEDs throb. That means moving one of the 01005 caps. FYI: They still throb too fast to see (30Hz). Those caps are not very precise. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
