Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
On 03/02/2011 12:53 AM, yamazakir2 wrote: I bought a $30 toaster oven from walmart and yeah you guys are right it seems to work fine. If you buy a ramp and soak thermocouple controller off ebay, and graft the two together, it will work as well as the "IR Reflow Station" box from China. The toaster oven ideally should be a wall of even red heat, rather than a central blob or strip. Levente did some with this, I think. I remember soemone saying they got results putting the thermocouple in contact with a separate piece of copper laminate the same type as they were heating to reflow. John -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
I bought a $30 toaster oven from walmart and yeah you guys are right it seems to work fine. On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 9:28 PM, Joe Chisolm - Gmail wrote: > I got a T-962A from these guys: > http://www.ownta.com/t962a-reflow-soldering-machine.html > > This is a heavy unit so shipping was expensive, though I cannot remember > exactly how much right now. It came DHL and I had it in about a week. I > paid through paypal. Got a order confirmation, shipping confirmation, > tracking number. All the normal stuff. So far I'm pretty happy with it. I > use it for prototype and kind of a mini production line. I've probably run > over 150 boards through it so far. > > 1: I got the 962A for the larger area. For a half height PCI card, > basically 2.5" x 7", I can do 3 at a time. I can fit four but I find the > quality of the joints are better with 3 max. For smaller boards I've loaded > up a dozen at a time. Max area for the 962A is 300mm x 320mm > > 2: The font panel keypad is not very good. Their membrane switch debounce > software needs a tweak in the timing. It seems to jump back a menu more > than it should. This is not a big issue though. > > 3: The built in heat profiles work well. I've done both leaded and LF. You > can also program your own profile. It's easy to do but takes a little > planning with a pencil and paper. You program in 10 second intervals. > > 4: If you are ramping the temp up rather fast it will overshoot by 20C or a > little more if the unit has not done a cycle yet. The best thing is to run > a empty cycle first to get some heat into the unit. > > 5: It does a good job of staying on the heat profile once it's warmed up. > Nothing like a big production line system will do but still good enough for > what I do. > > You might also look at a hot air gun. I got one of those before the oven. > > > On 02/28/2011 12:24 PM, yamazakir2 wrote: >> >> Does that company ship to the US? Plus for some reason I have had VERY >> bad shipping experience from europe. I live in CA and things always >> take at least 3 weeks to get here. One time I ordered a cable from >> ebay from the uk and it took 1.5 months to get here. >> >> So one one has any experience with the chinese reflow ovens? Are they >> junk or something? >> >> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak >> wrote: >>> >>> David Smith wrote: >>> > It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to the > point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of these > would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. >>> >>> We successfully use the pizza oven reflow kit sold by beta-layout: >>> (same company as pcb pool) >>> http://www.reflow-kit.com/rkuk/order_products_list.html?wg=1 >>> The controller is 159 EUR and the oven 59 EUR. The controller goes >>> between the plug and the wall. So you can use a cheaper oven from the >>> local grocerie if you wish. >>> >>> Results are fine by default for small boards. For large boards, >>> components near the door receive less heat than necessary. This >>> could be rectified with aluminum foil on the inside of the window. >>> >>> There's an article on the SparkFun website where they claim that you're better off buying a domestic hot-plate (!) >>> >>> We tried the hot plate method, too. Results were mixed and depend >>> on timing and various other factors. >>> >>> ---<)kaimartin(>--- >>> -- >>> Kai-Martin Knaak >>> Email: k...@familieknaak.de >>> Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: >>> http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> geda-user mailing list >>> geda-user@moria.seul.org >>> http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user >>> >> >> ___ >> geda-user mailing list >> geda-user@moria.seul.org >> http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user >> > > -- > Joe Chisolm > Marble Falls, Tx. > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
I got a T-962A from these guys: http://www.ownta.com/t962a-reflow-soldering-machine.html This is a heavy unit so shipping was expensive, though I cannot remember exactly how much right now. It came DHL and I had it in about a week. I paid through paypal. Got a order confirmation, shipping confirmation, tracking number. All the normal stuff. So far I'm pretty happy with it. I use it for prototype and kind of a mini production line. I've probably run over 150 boards through it so far. 1: I got the 962A for the larger area. For a half height PCI card, basically 2.5" x 7", I can do 3 at a time. I can fit four but I find the quality of the joints are better with 3 max. For smaller boards I've loaded up a dozen at a time. Max area for the 962A is 300mm x 320mm 2: The font panel keypad is not very good. Their membrane switch debounce software needs a tweak in the timing. It seems to jump back a menu more than it should. This is not a big issue though. 3: The built in heat profiles work well. I've done both leaded and LF. You can also program your own profile. It's easy to do but takes a little planning with a pencil and paper. You program in 10 second intervals. 4: If you are ramping the temp up rather fast it will overshoot by 20C or a little more if the unit has not done a cycle yet. The best thing is to run a empty cycle first to get some heat into the unit. 5: It does a good job of staying on the heat profile once it's warmed up. Nothing like a big production line system will do but still good enough for what I do. You might also look at a hot air gun. I got one of those before the oven. On 02/28/2011 12:24 PM, yamazakir2 wrote: Does that company ship to the US? Plus for some reason I have had VERY bad shipping experience from europe. I live in CA and things always take at least 3 weeks to get here. One time I ordered a cable from ebay from the uk and it took 1.5 months to get here. So one one has any experience with the chinese reflow ovens? Are they junk or something? On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: David Smith wrote: It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to the point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of these would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. We successfully use the pizza oven reflow kit sold by beta-layout: (same company as pcb pool) http://www.reflow-kit.com/rkuk/order_products_list.html?wg=1 The controller is 159 EUR and the oven 59 EUR. The controller goes between the plug and the wall. So you can use a cheaper oven from the local grocerie if you wish. Results are fine by default for small boards. For large boards, components near the door receive less heat than necessary. This could be rectified with aluminum foil on the inside of the window. There's an article on the SparkFun website where they claim that you're better off buying a domestic hot-plate (!) We tried the hot plate method, too. Results were mixed and depend on timing and various other factors. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user -- Joe Chisolm Marble Falls, Tx. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
2011/3/1 yamazakir2 : > Does that company ship to the US? Plus for some reason I have had VERY > bad shipping experience from europe. I live in CA and things always > take at least 3 weeks to get here. One time I ordered a cable from > ebay from the uk and it took 1.5 months to get here. > > So one one has any experience with the chinese reflow ovens? Are they > junk or something? I just know somebody tears-down this reflow oven, see the following thread: Title in Chinese: 花了2550元买回来的T-962A回流焊，还没有使用，先拆开给大家看 Title In English: This reflow oven T-962A costs 2550RMB, and it was not used yet, tear-down for others (review) http://www.ourdev.cn/bbs//bbs_content_all.jsp?bbs_sn=3383709 Though the discussions are in Chinese, but there are many photos for reference. Please note the post of 104, he said that he get good enough result with this reflow oven. BTW, I tried the toaster reflow too (the second-hand toaster just costs 40RMB), but I get the bad results :( (The heat radiation cause the failure) http://www.atommann.com/learn/toaster-reflow/index.html -- Best regards, Atommann ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 12:24 PM, yamazakir2 wrote: > Does that company ship to the US? Plus for some reason I have had VERY > bad shipping experience from europe. I live in CA and things always > take at least 3 weeks to get here. One time I ordered a cable from > ebay from the uk and it took 1.5 months to get here. > > So one one has any experience with the chinese reflow ovens? Are they > junk or something? You can reflow with a $20 toaster oven from Goodwill / craigslist / Wal-Mart. Try starting with that. Regards, Mark markrages@gmail -- Mark Rages, Engineer Midwest Telecine LLC markra...@midwesttelecine.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
Does that company ship to the US? Plus for some reason I have had VERY bad shipping experience from europe. I live in CA and things always take at least 3 weeks to get here. One time I ordered a cable from ebay from the uk and it took 1.5 months to get here. So one one has any experience with the chinese reflow ovens? Are they junk or something? On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > David Smith wrote: > >>> It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to the >>> point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of these >>> would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. > > We successfully use the pizza oven reflow kit sold by beta-layout: > (same company as pcb pool) > http://www.reflow-kit.com/rkuk/order_products_list.html?wg=1 > The controller is 159 EUR and the oven 59 EUR. The controller goes > between the plug and the wall. So you can use a cheaper oven from the > local grocerie if you wish. > > Results are fine by default for small boards. For large boards, > components near the door receive less heat than necessary. This > could be rectified with aluminum foil on the inside of the window. > > >> There's an article on the SparkFun website where they claim that you're >> better off buying a domestic hot-plate (!) > > We tried the hot plate method, too. Results were mixed and depend > on timing and various other factors. > > ---<)kaimartin(>--- > -- > Kai-Martin Knaak > Email: k...@familieknaak.de > Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: > http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
David Smith wrote: >> It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to the >> point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of these >> would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. We successfully use the pizza oven reflow kit sold by beta-layout: (same company as pcb pool) http://www.reflow-kit.com/rkuk/order_products_list.html?wg=1 The controller is 159 EUR and the oven 59 EUR. The controller goes between the plug and the wall. So you can use a cheaper oven from the local grocerie if you wish. Results are fine by default for small boards. For large boards, components near the door receive less heat than necessary. This could be rectified with aluminum foil on the inside of the window. > There's an article on the SparkFun website where they claim that you're > better off buying a domestic hot-plate (!) We tried the hot plate method, too. Results were mixed and depend on timing and various other factors. ---<)kaimartin(>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
On Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:40:21 + David Smith wrote: > yamazakir2 wrote: > > I'm talking about ones such as these: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/T-962-INFRARED-IC-HEATER-REFLOW-WAVE-OVEN-BGA-T962-a5-/120664888674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c18301562 > > > > It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to > > the point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of > > these would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. > > There's an article on the SparkFun website where they claim that > you're better off buying a domestic hot-plate (!) SparkFun tutorial: Reflow Skillet: A comparison of five SMD soldering methods. http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/59 Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
yamazakir2 wrote: > I'm talking about ones such as these: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/T-962-INFRARED-IC-HEATER-REFLOW-WAVE-OVEN-BGA-T962-a5-/120664888674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c18301562 > > It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to the > point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of these > would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. There's an article on the SparkFun website where they claim that you're better off buying a domestic hot-plate (!) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Anybody have any experience with cheap chinese reflow ovens?
I'm talking about ones such as these: http://cgi.ebay.com/T-962-INFRARED-IC-HEATER-REFLOW-WAVE-OVEN-BGA-T962-a5-/120664888674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c18301562 It seems like $320 shipped is pretty cheap for a reflow oven... to the point where I question the quality/reliability. Getting one of these would make assembling my boards 2-3x faster,so it's tempting. Also, another related question, do you need to use a special kind of solder paste for these kind of reflow ovens? I have never used solder paste before so I don't know if I need to use a certain kind. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
