Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Hi all, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Steven Michalske Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 8:56 AM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage Maybe we are targetting the wrong OS ;-( Nope, I like my mac os install, and engineering colleges are seeing a large uptick in mac usage in colleges. It is a perk to have a computer that can OS X, Linux, and Windows. Maybe the unofficial windows ports are more important than we think ;-) It is important to have easy to install packages. I find installing source packages trivial, but I am not the average user. My colleges that want an install for OSX dislike need to install xcode, mac ports and compiling the whole deal. One of these days I will study how Inkscape makes their OS X package and make one for gschem and pcb. I will look into these statistics this evening, to have an informed opinion. We can't have that ;-P only uninformed conjecture! Steve Yesterday evening I found the following DownLoads (D/L) statistics, until I got bored: File WIN LIN MAC BSD *** SF My Total Total geda-suite-0.0.2.tar.bz210 424-1 820 57 geda-gaf-1.6.1.tar.gz 279 106 2618 420420 verilog-20090923.tar.gz 1032-325 18 verilog-0.9.2.tar.gz 822-119 13 pcb-20091103.tar.gz 841-119 14 ng-spice-rework-20.tar.gz 1722 14-2 276190 gwave2-20090213.tar.gz 821-117 12 gtkwave-3.3.0.tar.gz 751-119 14 gspiceui-v0.9.98.tar.gz 721-115 11 gnucap-2009-12-07-tools.tar.gz 1021-118 14 (incomplete) IMHO: 1) the 147 k D/Ls looks like a (realistic ?) number of total D/L for all gEDA related packages and files ever. 2) SF math s*cks ! I hope Launchpad does it's math better. Just my somewhat more informed opinion ;-) Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 10 January 2011 00:48, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. Your argument against a comprehensive bug management page in the wiki was the wish to separate bug reporting people from those, who do the triage. No, it was a desire to decouple the processes, not the people. This implies to me, that ordinary users should be discouraged from doing the triage. And the triage policy should be out of their eyes. The processes are distinct enough to deserve their own pages. Some people will report bugs. Some people will triage bugs. Some will do both. The link on the reporting page facilitates that. Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Am 10.01.2011 um 02:33 schrieb Peter Clifton: On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: By the way, the download statistics is interesting: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/stats/timeline? dates=2002-01-03+to+2011-01-10 Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 To me, the interesting statistic is more: TOP OS * Windows 79% of downloaders https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files//stats/os? dates=2003-02-11%20to%202011-01-10 ... and a minute later ... Look at the source downloads for the latest release though: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/pcb/pcb-20100929/ pcb-20100929.tar.gz/stats/os Only 50% Linux downloads, 25% Windows again. These numbers are very biased, as about all Linux and *BSD distributions have some sort of package management system, so there's no need to download sources from SourceForge or build binaries by hand. Just doing some apt-get or emerge or whatever is much more convenient and reliable. For example, sites like the Ubuntu Popularity Contest show 11'000 installations with about 1'000 users: http://popcon2.net/package/geda.html#graph-0 Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: The short answer is html + make This should be easy to convert to dokuwiki + make After all, dokuwiki content is just a set of ascii files. The make file would only be needed to distribute the files to the correct target directories. The benefit would be a complete separation of content and style. ---)kaiamrtin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de GPG key:http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=Knaak+kmkop=get ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 1/9/2011 8:33 PM, Peter Clifton wrote: On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: By the way, the download statistics is interesting: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/stats/timeline?dates=2002-01-03+to+2011-01-10 Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 To me, the interesting statistic is more: TOP OS * Windows 79% of downloaders https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files//stats/os?dates=2003-02-11%20to%202011-01-10 I wonder how many of those downloaders actually use it. I used it just yesterday. I often use gerbv for viewing Gerbers. I run it under Vista and there are some issues. Rick ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
I wouldn't strongly object to a merge but... On 8 January 2011 23:31, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Peter TB Brett wrote: Nice. Would you object against a merge with Howto report bugs? I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs are different jobs. Sure, but I'd like to: 1) not spread bug reporting advice all over the site like we currently do. I think reporting and triage are two separate processes that are carried out by two intersecting sets of people. I think there's a good argument for two separate pages. If not, it must be /extremely clear/ that they are two separate processes carried out by different people, otherwise the naive bug reporter may attempt to triage their own bug. I do agree there should only be 1 bug *reporting* page though. 2) suggest, that someone, who reports a bug may also confirm others. I imagine, this works better, if the triage See above. I don't think that necessarily follows. Bug reporting could be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of people. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 04:16 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Here is another find: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/gschem-projects On the bottom of the page is a link to sourceforge that is supposed to offer some work done for an interactive sub sheet generator. However, the link is dead. I couldn't locate a corresponding report on launchpad, either. Just typed in the bug number (1800913) in launchpads search facility. Fixed. The SF bugs get imported with an alias, so sf-1800913 might have found it. The bug is: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bug/698670 Aka: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bug/sf-1800913 Or shorter.. since you don't have to explicitly specify the project: https://launchpad.net/bugs/698670 https://launchpad.net/bugs/sf-1800913 ---)kaimartin(--- -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Gareth Edwards wrote: Bug reporting could be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of people. For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) However, geda/pcb as a project is not exactly overrun by potential contributers and bug reporters. There is no need to add more barriers. To the contrary, users need to be encouraged to participate. Triage is itself is not very release critical. Worst case that might happen is a severe bug that gets rated below par. But if it is really severe, it will surface again. If a user has successfully followed the bug report page of geda and has not seen triage mentioned, he or she may still be tempted to change the status flags of this and other bugs -- Simply because there are edit buttons on the status. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: Fixed. Thanks. The SF bugs get imported with an alias, so sf-1800913 might have found it. Ok, next time I'll try to search with sf-prefix. Here is another find: The link page of pcb at gpleda.org still contains now obsolete links to sourceforge: second point at http://pcb.gpleda.org/links.html In addition, the menu of the main page of pcb at gpleda contains an entry Sourceforge with the sub entry Project Page, both of which link to the same source page. IMHO these are obsolete. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 19:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: Bug reporting could be and should be from anyone. Bug triage will be a smaller set of people. For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is not configurable. If we wanted access more open, we _could_ make the bug team open without any confirmation by an administrator, but I'm not inclined to do that. However, geda/pcb as a project is not exactly overrun by potential contributers and bug reporters. There is no need to add more barriers. To the contrary, users need to be encouraged to participate. Triage is itself is not very release critical. Worst case that might happen is a severe bug that gets rated below par. But if it is really severe, it will surface again. Actually, and perhaps perversely, I think adding the barrier to team membership may be a psychological encouragement to participate actively. In order to join the team, the person joining has been acknowledged and given an implicit degree of approval from the administrators of the project. When I have been in this position for other projects. (E.g membership of the Ubuntu-X swat team), it gave me both a positive feeling, and also reassured me that it was ok to make those changes membership unlocked. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 19:46 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Here is another find: The link page of pcb at gpleda.org still contains now obsolete links to sourceforge: second point at http://pcb.gpleda.org/links.html I removed the text about going there for bugs, but left the link for now. In addition, the menu of the main page of pcb at gpleda contains an entry Sourceforge with the sub entry Project Page, both of which link to the same source page. IMHO these are obsolete. The second link is really just manual line-wrapping of the first. I added a link to the Launchpad project page for PCB, and removed the forced line-wrap on both. Better? At some point I'd love to see the PCB pages revamped wholesale to improve their impact and visual appeal. Whatever ends up being done, I'd like the whole gpleda.org site to look consistent. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is not configurable. Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status edit war is creeping up... Actually, and perhaps perversely, I think adding the barrier to team membership may be a psychological encouragement to participate actively. In order to join the team, the person joining has been acknowledged and given an implicit degree of approval from the administrators of the project. When I have been in this position for other projects. (E.g membership of the Ubuntu-X swat team), it gave me both a positive feeling, and also reassured me that it was ok to make those changes membership unlocked. fair enough. But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sunday 09 January 2011 19:07:37 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is not configurable. Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status edit war is creeping up... If a status edit war occurs, bug status to be set to Opinion? ;-) Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sun, 2011-01-09 at 20:07 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: For full triage you have to be a member of the bug team (geda-bugs, or pcb-bugs). Else, you get no edit buttons next to the importance button. I'd expect, that this is configurable and the status can also be made inaccessible to simple users (Peter C., is this so?) No, you need to be a bug contact or owner of the project, and that is not configurable. Hmm, I also meant the opposite: Is is it possible to make the status inaccessible to users not in a special group? Just in case some status edit war is creeping up... I don't think it is possible to restrict access to statuses. A couple are reserved for geda-bugs team only, such as Triaged and WontFix. If anyone starts an edit fight, we need to tell them to stop. If that doesn't suffice - we'll have to refer it to the Launchpad admins to investigate and possibly warn the user. Here is the rationale from: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/of-bugs-and-statuses Access Restrictions For the most part, Launchpad is liberal as to who can set bugs to a status; we would rather allow people to help garden the bug statuses than force them to ask permission to do so. There are two statuses, however, which are restricted to the project’s bug contacts and registrant: Won’t Fix, and Triaged. * Won’t Fix is restricted for a very specific reason: it is intended to represent an official denial, and therefore should really only be pronounced by a member of the project. * Triaged is restricted because it intends to capture confirmation by an accredited QA person who has verified that enough information has now been gathered about the issue that it can go straight into a developer’s work queue. [snip] fair enough. But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. No - it will help them to understand what status their bug has been given, and is thus useful, even if they don't participate in triage themselves. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 9 January 2011 19:07, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. /GDE ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Gareth Edwards wrote: But I don't see this as a reason to hide the existence of the triage policy from simple bug reporters. It's not hidden. It's linked right on the bug reporting page. Your argument against a comprehensive bug management page in the wiki was the wish to separate bug reporting people from those, who do the triage. This implies to me, that ordinary users should be discouraged from doing the triage. And the triage policy should be out of their eyes. Note, triage by users not part of the bug team can only affect the status. They will not be able to increase, or decrease the importance. I see no much harm they can do, but a potential for good input. Their confirmation flags and affects-me will make it easier for developers to spot the most burning issues. The average user who reports a bug must also triage a bug. The less users do the triage thing, the more of this job will stay with the developers. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: Here is another find: The link page of pcb at gpleda.org still contains now obsolete links to sourceforge: second point at http://pcb.gpleda.org/links.html I removed the text about going there for bugs, but left the link for now. The project description in sourceforge should be supplemented with a note that the project has moved to gpleda.org. The last news item on sourceforge is from 2006. To the uninformed layman this might smell like a dead project. By the way, the download statistics is interesting: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/stats/timeline?dates=2002-01-03+to+2011-01-10 Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: By the way, the download statistics is interesting: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/stats/timeline?dates=2002-01-03+to+2011-01-10 Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 To me, the interesting statistic is more: TOP OS * Windows 79% of downloaders https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files//stats/os?dates=2003-02-11%20to%202011-01-10 I wonder how many of those downloaders actually use it. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 Look at the source downloads for the latest release though: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/pcb/pcb-20100929/pcb-20100929.tar.gz/stats/os Only 50% Linux downloads, 25% Windows again. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: At some point I'd love to see the PCB pages revamped wholesale to improve their impact and visual appeal. Whatever ends up being done, I'd like the whole gpleda.org site to look consistent. Me too! Like I mentioned before, dokuwiki can easily do a lot better than what the geda wiki currently looks like. With dokuwiki rendered style is almost completely orthogonal to content and managed by cascaded style sheets. Given admin privileges you can have many of the navigation and eye candy goodies modern web design likes to present. What web engine that drives the pcb pages? Is it some kind of CMS or simply hand written HTML? ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:47 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: What web engine that drives the pcb pages? Is it some kind of CMS or simply hand written HTML? Web-sources are here: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=pcbhtdocs.git;a=tree The short answer is html + make See: http://git.gpleda.org/?p=pcbhtdocs.git;a=blob;f=Makefile -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Hi Peter, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Peter Clifton Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 2:35 AM To: k...@lilalaser.de; gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage On Mon, 2011-01-10 at 02:18 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter Clifton wrote: Over the years, the download count integrated to an astonishing 150.000 Look at the source downloads for the latest release though: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcb/files/pcb/pcb-20100929/pc b-20100929.tar.gz/stats/os Only 50% Linux downloads, 25% Windows again. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) Maybe we are targetting the wrong OS ;-( Maybe the unofficial windows ports are more important than we think ;-) I will look into these statistics this evening, to have an informed opinion. Kind regards, Bert Timmerman. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Maybe we are targetting the wrong OS ;-( Nope, I like my mac os install, and engineering colleges are seeing a large uptick in mac usage in colleges. It is a perk to have a computer that can OS X, Linux, and Windows. Maybe the unofficial windows ports are more important than we think ;-) It is important to have easy to install packages. I find installing source packages trivial, but I am not the average user. My colleges that want an install for OSX dislike need to install xcode, mac ports and compiling the whole deal. One of these days I will study how Inkscape makes their OS X package and make one for gschem and pcb. I will look into these statistics this evening, to have an informed opinion. We can't have that ;-P only uninformed conjecture! Steve ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 7 January 2011 10:14, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Pick a bug from here: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs?search=Searchfield.status=New (gEDA) or: https://launchpad.net/pcb/+bugs?search=Searchfield.status=New (pcb) Grab git HEAD of whichever package the bug is in (if you don't have it already), and try to confirm whether the bug is still present or not. Bug present: New - Confirmed Bug absent: Make a comment - set bug to Invalid, Fix released, or Incomplete... depending on how confident you are that the bug was bogus, fixed by some commit since the bug reported, or Incomplete if you ask the reporter a question which requires answering. Does it make sense to move (other peoples) Wishlist items to Confirmed, or just leave them as New? Just thinking these might be a lot more subjective than bug reports. Cheers Gareth ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 19:16 +, Gareth Edwards wrote: Does it make sense to move (other peoples) Wishlist items to Confirmed, or just leave them as New? Just thinking these might be a lot more subjective than bug reports. I'd suggest that anyone who also wishes the same should tick the bug affects me option, so we get an idea of the demand. That feature was designed to avoid lots of ME TOO, +1 comments on bugs. Perhaps leave the status update for developers who are sufficiently familiar with the design issues to decide if the wishlist item is a Confirmed, WontFix or Opinion. It seems there is no need to confirm that someone wishes something ;) -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Saturday 08 January 2011 19:33:40 Gareth Edwards wrote: On 8 January 2011 19:28, Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 19:16 +, Gareth Edwards wrote: Does it make sense to move (other peoples) Wishlist items to Confirmed, or just leave them as New? Just thinking these might be a lot more subjective than bug reports. I'd suggest that anyone who also wishes the same should tick the bug affects me option, so we get an idea of the demand. That feature was designed to avoid lots of ME TOO, +1 comments on bugs. Perhaps leave the status update for developers who are sufficiently familiar with the design issues to decide if the wishlist item is a Confirmed, WontFix or Opinion. Yes, this sound like a good process. Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere or is it transient until we complete the first pass of the migration? It's spread over 3 or 4 email threads now and my email filing sucks. :) Yes, it is definitely worthwhile to try and capture the process on the wiki somewhere! Very much so! Please do! Peter :-) -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 19:33 +, Gareth Edwards wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere or is it transient until we complete the first pass of the migration? It's spread over 3 or 4 email threads now and my email filing sucks. :) Writing a bug triage guide would be handy I think.. thanks! We can update it if and when we find problems with how things are working. Realistically, the migration is done already.. we are just catching up with bug triage work which has been very neglected in the past. I'm currently working on writing a robot to update status of bugs as we commit related code. See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/700413 and our mindless helper: https://launchpad.net/~gpleda-launchpad-robot -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 19:40:49 + Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 19:33 +, Gareth Edwards wrote: Writing a bug triage guide would be handy I think.. thanks! We can update it if and when we find problems with how things are working. Yes, it would be useful to have a bug triage guide. Realistically, the migration is done already.. we are just catching up with bug triage work which has been very neglected in the past. I'll just take this moment to say thanks for making the switch to Launchpad! I've used Launchpad a little bit in the past, but after using it for only a little while with the pcb project, I find using Launchpad EXTREMELY PLEASANT! ... especially compared with SourceForge. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Gareth Edwards wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere IMHO, bug reporting is worth a dedicated page in the wiki. I just started one at: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:howto_report_bugs?#bug_trackers Feel free to add a section on bug triage and etiquette. BTW, there about 100 links to source forge in the wiki http://geda.seul.org/wiki/?do=searchid=sourceforge Many of them are obsolete since pcb and now also the bug trackers have moved somewhere else. I'll try to catch them... ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Hi On 8 January 2011 21:26, Kai-Martin Knaak k...@lilalaser.de wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere IMHO, bug reporting is worth a dedicated page in the wiki. I just started one at: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:howto_report_bugs?#bug_trackers Feel free to add a section on bug triage and etiquette. I'm already half way through writing one elsewhere. I'll add a link. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Saturday 08 January 2011 21:26:59 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere IMHO, bug reporting is worth a dedicated page in the wiki. I just started one at: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:howto_report_bugs?#bug_trackers Feel free to add a section on bug triage and etiquette. BTW, there about 100 links to source forge in the wiki http://geda.seul.org/wiki/?do=searchid=sourceforge Many of them are obsolete since pcb and now also the bug trackers have moved somewhere else. I'll try to catch them... Note that http://bugs.launchpad.net/geda/+bug/sf-bugnum links to the bug which had ID bugnum on Sourceforge. This is useful. ;-) Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: BTW, there about 100 links to source forge in the wiki http://geda.seul.org/wiki/?do=searchid=sourceforge Many of them are obsolete since pcb and now also the bug trackers have moved somewhere else. I'll try to catch them... The hunt led me to http://pcb.gpleda.org/bugs.html This page needs to be updated, too. It is not part of the wiki. So DJ, Ales, or somebody else with privileged write permissions has to do the changes. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On 8 January 2011 21:29, Gareth Edwards gar...@edwardsfamily.org.uk wrote: Think it's worthwhile me trying to capture the process on the wiki somewhere http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:bug_triage_guide ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Saturday 08 January 2011 22:44:48 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Gareth Edwards wrote: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:bug_triage_guide Nice. Would you object against a merge with Howto report bugs? I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs are different jobs. For instance, a large part of the triage guide is about what to set importances and statuses to in different situations, whereas for a reporter, their bug should always start out as New and Undecided. Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter TB Brett wrote: Nice. Would you object against a merge with Howto report bugs? I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs are different jobs. Sure, but I'd like to: 1) not spread bug reporting advice all over the site like we currently do. 2) suggest, that someone, who reports a bug may also confirm others. I imagine, this works better, if the triage 3) have a single page for all bug related issues. This page can be linked to from many other pages. (And potentially from the manuals). ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Saturday 08 January 2011 23:31:43 Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Peter TB Brett wrote: Nice. Would you object against a merge with Howto report bugs? I don't think that one is really needed -- reporting bugs and triaging bugs are different jobs. Sure, but I'd like to: 1) not spread bug reporting advice all over the site like we currently do. 2) suggest, that someone, who reports a bug may also confirm others. I imagine, this works better, if the triage 3) have a single page for all bug related issues. This page can be linked to from many other pages. (And potentially from the manuals). Well, it's up to you. Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 22:38 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: The hunt led me to http://pcb.gpleda.org/bugs.html This page needs to be updated, too. It is not part of the wiki. So DJ, Ales, or somebody else with privileged write permissions has to do the changes. I fixed it. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
Peter Clifton wrote: On Sat, 2011-01-08 at 22:38 +0100, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: The hunt led me to http://pcb.gpleda.org/bugs.html This page needs to be updated, too. It is not part of the wiki. So DJ, Ales, or somebody else with privileged write permissions has to do the changes. I fixed it. Thanks. Here is another find: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/gschem-projects On the bottom of the page is a link to sourceforge that is supposed to offer some work done for an interactive sub sheet generator. However, the link is dead. I couldn't locate a corresponding report on launchpad, either. Just typed in the bug number (1800913) in launchpads search facility. ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Email: k...@familieknaak.de Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Bug triage
Hello everyone, Peter Brett seems to have gone mad... he's triaging bugs and coding fixes at an astonishing rate. Rather than our newly imported bugs in Launchpad sitting abandoned and ignored, they are being FIXED! There are a lot of bugs which are still New, ie.. haven't been confirmed or triaged yet, and I'd like to encourage EVERYONE to come and help with that task. If everyone did ONE bug, we'd be a _lot_ further on with this job. Pick a bug from here: https://launchpad.net/geda/+bugs?search=Searchfield.status=New (gEDA) or: https://launchpad.net/pcb/+bugs?search=Searchfield.status=New (pcb) Grab git HEAD of whichever package the bug is in (if you don't have it already), and try to confirm whether the bug is still present or not. Bug present: New - Confirmed Bug absent: Make a comment - set bug to Invalid, Fix released, or Incomplete... depending on how confident you are that the bug was bogus, fixed by some commit since the bug reported, or Incomplete if you ask the reporter a question which requires answering. Does the bug affect you personally? If so, hit the link about 2-3 inches down the page, under the title, which lets you state that? Interested in getting email about progress on this bug? Hit Subscribe on the right hand toolbar. Is your name on any bug? Be sure to link the Sourceforge import with your SF email address to your proper Launchpad account. Click your name if it isn't already linked.. For example, Ineiev: https://launchpad.net/~ineiev-users Follow the Are you ineiev? link to: https://launchpad.net/people/+requestmerge?field.dupe_person=ineiev-users Lets all help with this task.. a lot of hands will make light work. -- Peter Clifton Electrical Engineering Division, Engineering Department, University of Cambridge, 9, JJ Thomson Avenue, Cambridge CB3 0FA Tel: +44 (0)7729 980173 - (No signal in the lab!) Tel: +44 (0)1223 748328 - (Shared lab phone, ask for me) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Friday 07 January 2011 10:14:19 Peter Clifton wrote: Grab git HEAD of whichever package the bug is in (if you don't have it already), and try to confirm whether the bug is still present or not. Bug present: New - Confirmed Bug absent: Make a comment - set bug to Invalid, Fix released, or Incomplete... depending on how confident you are that the bug was bogus, fixed by some commit since the bug reported, or Incomplete if you ask the reporter a question which requires answering. Please use Fix released only if the fix has been in a released version (the latest release was 1.6.1). Otherwise, use Fix committed. Thanks for any help you can give me in ploughing through the backlog! Peter P.S. It is not good form to set your own bug reports to Confirmed. :-P -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:22:53 + Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: Please use Fix released only if the fix has been in a released version (the latest release was 1.6.1). Otherwise, use Fix committed. Is there any special tag or status indicator I can use for a bug which has a working bugfix patch attached? It seems like bugs with a confirmed fix should be given high priority to get the fix committed to HEAD. I am speaking presently about https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/699498 which has a working patch that I have been using myself for some time. Regards, Colin signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Friday 07 January 2011 20:55:31 Colin D Bennett wrote: On Fri, 7 Jan 2011 10:22:53 + Peter TB Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk wrote: Please use Fix released only if the fix has been in a released version (the latest release was 1.6.1). Otherwise, use Fix committed. Is there any special tag or status indicator I can use for a bug which has a working bugfix patch attached? It seems like bugs with a confirmed fix should be given high priority to get the fix committed to HEAD. I am speaking presently about https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/699498 which has a working patch that I have been using myself for some time. Well, the usual thing to do in that case is to complain on the mailing list, in which case a bug administrator (such as myself) may well go and find someone to nag about it. Cheers, Peter -- Peter Brett pe...@peter-b.co.uk Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 10:14:19 + Peter Clifton pc...@cam.ac.uk wrote: There are a lot of bugs which are still New, ie.. haven't been confirmed or triaged yet, and I'd like to encourage EVERYONE to come and help with that task. I have a question regarding the validity of the following bug: “Make minimum size 1000x1000 mil” https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/699548. This bug report states that pcb won't let you create a layout less than 1200 mil x 1200 mil. However I have a layout that is much smaller than that and have not encountered any restriction or problem yet. This report is from 2004 and last commented on in 2005, so I am fairly sure it is _Invalid_. Can anyone confirm? Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Bug triage
The minimimum size is still set to 1000, but was never updated when we switched to centimils, so the smallest board is now limited to 10 mils! Yes, the GTK sizes dialog still enforces it! ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
