Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
Am 26.07.2011 um 07:33 schrieb bsali...@gmail.com: 1. Schematic board are decoupled so any changes to schematic need to be re-synced to the board. I haven't figured out the way yet. Look up and use xgsch2pcb. Everything else is too complex for beginners. Emphasis on the x at the first letter. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:28:21 +0200 Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote: Am 26.07.2011 um 07:33 schrieb bsali...@gmail.com: 1. Schematic board are decoupled so any changes to schematic need to be re-synced to the board. I haven't figured out the way yet. Look up and use xgsch2pcb. Everything else is too complex for beginners. Emphasis on the x at the first letter. I mentioned xgsch2pcb in my reply to this message, so I have nothing against it. However, I want to know how clicking File | Import Schematics is “too complex for beginners”. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
Am 27.07.2011 um 15:49 schrieb Colin D Bennett: However, I want to know how clicking File | Import Schematics is “too complex for beginners”. Perhaps I still had this multi-page tutorial in mind and forgot about this relative recent function. Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. (FH) Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 3:28 AM, Markus Hitter m...@jump-ing.de wrote: Look up and use xgsch2pcb. Everything else is too complex for beginners. Emphasis on the x at the first letter. Installed and using it :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
Thanks for the detailed steps Colin. Sorry I was not clear I was looking to migrate as a user. Although I have a license for eagle but sometime get limited by the number of schematic sheets. So far I haven't reached max board size. I have moderately large customized libraries on eagle. I use git with my current setup as my version control mech. Couple of days back I was able to create a test schematic on gschem but it was not obvious to transfer the schematic to PCB. I guess it will take time to learn. So far I made a few observations comparing eagle: 1. Schematic board are decoupled so any changes to schematic need to be re-synced to the board. I haven't figured out the way yet. 2. Symbol and footprint libraries are decoupled for the above reasons. 3. A schematic element doesn't necessarily have a footprint assigned by default. Maybe because gschem can be used standalone (not for PCB) I would like to know any functional (not monetary) advantages of gEDA over eagle, I assume that there are many. Regards, Chetan Bhargava On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Colin D Bennett co...@gibibit.com wrote: On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:17:39 -0700 Do you mean migration of particular designs (schematic/layout), importing them to gEDA? Or do you mean migrating as a user? I have never used Eagle, so I can't be of any specific assistance in that regard. However, I can say that while there are tutorial on gschem/PCB and the general gEDA workflow, there is a need for a good, complete tutorial for new users. Because gEDA is designed to support a wide variety of uses and workflow methods, I feel it is not immediately clear to new users how to proceed. Let me share my basic process for designing a circuit and PCB so you can get a feel for how the tools might be used: 0.) Set up a revision control system. Something modern like git or Bazaar is best. Commit frequently, and write descriptive commit messages! (I find this useful as a journal or log to come back to myself about what I've done on the design, not to mention saving yourself from screwups...) 1.) Draw schematic with gschem, placing symbols and drawing net connections. Various steps required as part of drawing the basic schematic: - Import any special symbols not in the default library from gedasymbols.org - If you can't find the symbol you need, draw custom symbol in gschem, save as .sym file. - Run a schematic design rule check (DRC) with “gnetlist”; fix any DRC errors. 2.) Assign footprints to all components in the schematic. You can do this in gschem or using gattrib (table view). - Import any special footprints from gedasymbols.org - If you can't find an appropriate footprint, create one in the “pcb” tool. (Takes some practice, but after a while it becomes straightforward.) - Make sure the footprints you are using are correct for the parts you are going to use. - Check footprints to make sure that pin assignments from schematic symbol to PCB footprint is correct!! Watch out for LEDs, diodes, polarized capacitors, etc. that may have pins identified only as “1” and “2”. (I often use my own custom symbols/footprints with more descriptive, logical pin identifiers like “P” and “N” on diodes for P-type and N-type terminals.) 3.) Lay out the board. - Import schematic into pcb. - Set “preferences” for the design such as minimum copper clearance, board dimensions, layer stackup, etc. - Set up the grid as you prefer. - Place components. - Route tracks with lines. (You can use autorouter, but that is a personal preference... I have always done manual routing.) - Draw board outline on the “outline” layer. - Add ground flood if desired. 4.) Verify design. - Run DRC in the pcb program; fix any problems such as “copper areas too close”, etc. - Print out the PCB layout at 1:1 scale on paper and actually place the parts on it. This is a sanity check to make sure footprints are correct and spacing around certain parts are sufficient (e.g., need enough spacing around some connectors, switches, jumpers, sockets, heat sinks, etc.). I'm no wizard, just a novice, but I've done a few dozen designs and am feeling very comfortable in gEDA myself so hopefully this is helpful. One thing that I've found is that it is worthwhile to “error-proof” yourself through your process. Some of the common errors I've made are related to incorrect pin assignments or footprint assignments, so I take special care to validate those. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
Hi Abhijit, I looked at your site. Your tutorial document is pretty good. Regards, Chetan Bhargava On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Abhijit Kshirsagar abhijit...@gmail.com wrote: Recently I wrote a small script to automate some of the things needed to be done after the gEDA tools are installed: such as setting up per-user symbols and footprint directories; and adding these to the gafrc and gschemrc files, etc... The script (Setup_gEDA.sh) is well commented and can be downloaded from here: [1]http://sites.google.com/site/abhijit86k/linux/geda Its really quite basic, but i hope it helps someone... Thanks and Regards, ~Abhijit On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 22:41, Colin D Bennett [2]co...@gibibit.com wrote: On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:17:39 -0700 [3]bsali...@gmail.com [4]bsali...@gmail.com wrote: I guess that his question might have been asked before but is there any howto or tutorial to migrate from Eagle to gEDA? I tried Google searches but no meaningful information has been found. Do you mean migration of particular designs (schematic/layout), importing them to gEDA? Or do you mean migrating as a user? I have never used Eagle, so I can't be of any specific assistance in that regard.  However, I can say that while there are tutorial on gschem/PCB and the general gEDA workflow, there is a need for a good, complete tutorial for new users. Because gEDA is designed to support a wide variety of uses and workflow methods, I feel it is not immediately clear to new users how to proceed. Let me share my basic process for designing a circuit and PCB so you can get a feel for how the tools might be used: 0.) Set up a revision control system.   Something modern like git or Bazaar is best.   Commit frequently, and write descriptive commit messages!   (I find this useful as a journal or log to come back to myself about   what I've done on the design, not to mention saving yourself from   screwups...) 1.) Draw schematic with gschem, placing symbols and drawing net   connections.   Various steps required as part of drawing the basic schematic:   - Import any special symbols not in the default library from    [5]gedasymbols.org   - If you can't find the symbol you need, draw custom symbol    in gschem, save as .sym file.   - Run a schematic design rule check (DRC) with âgnetlistâ;    fix any DRC errors. 2.) Assign footprints to all components in the schematic.   You can do this in gschem or using gattrib (table view).   - Import any special footprints from [6]gedasymbols.org   - If you can't find an appropriate footprint, create one in the    âpcbâ tool. (Takes some practice, but after a while it becomes    straightforward.)   - Make sure the footprints you are using are correct for the    parts you are going to use.   - Check footprints to make sure that pin assignments from    schematic symbol to PCB footprint is correct!! Watch out for    LEDs, diodes, polarized capacitors, etc. that may have pins    identified only as â1â and â2â.  (I often use my own custom    symbols/footprints with more descriptive, logical pin identifiers    like âPâ and âNâ on diodes for P-type and N-type terminals.) 3.) Lay out the board.   - Import schematic into pcb.   - Set âpreferencesâ for the design such as minimum copper    clearance, board dimensions, layer stackup, etc.   - Set up the grid as you prefer.   - Place components.   - Route tracks with lines.  (You can use autorouter, but that is a    personal preference... I have always done manual routing.)   - Draw board outline on the âoutlineâ layer.   - Add ground flood if desired. 4.) Verify design.   - Run DRC in the pcb program; fix any problems such as âcopper areas    too closeâ, etc.   - Print out the PCB layout at 1:1 scale on paper and actually place    the parts on it.  This is a sanity check to make sure footprints    are correct and spacing around certain parts are sufficient    (e.g., need enough spacing around some connectors, switches,    jumpers, sockets, heat sinks, etc.). I'm no wizard, just a novice, but I've done a few dozen designs and am feeling very comfortable in gEDA myself so hopefully this is helpful. One thing that I've found is that it is worthwhile to âerror-proofâ yourself through your process.  Some of the common errors I've made are related to incorrect pin assignments or footprint assignments, so I take special care to validate those. Regards, Colin
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:33:11 -0700 bsali...@gmail.com bsali...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the detailed steps Colin. Sorry I was not clear I was looking to migrate as a user. Although I have a license for eagle but sometime get limited by the number of schematic sheets. So far I haven't reached max board size. I have moderately large customized libraries on eagle. I use git with my current setup as my version control mech. Couple of days back I was able to create a test schematic on gschem but it was not obvious to transfer the schematic to PCB. I guess it will take time to learn. So far I made a few observations comparing eagle: 1. Schematic board are decoupled so any changes to schematic need to be re-synced to the board. I haven't figured out the way yet. There are two ways to do this: an old way, and a new way. I can't tell you too much about the differences since I've only really used the old way, but the new way is simpler. (a) The new way is to use the new File | Import Schematics command in pcb to update the layout from the schematic. (b) The old way is to use the gsch2pcb command line tool or the xgsch2pcb GUI tool. 2. Symbol and footprint libraries are decoupled for the above reasons. Correct. Although, the symbol and footprint libraries do need to agree on some things like pin naming so that things are mapped correctly. For instance, in my custom symbols and footprints, I use “P” and “N” for my diode pin names, and “G”, “S”, and “D” for FET pins. (In the case of FETs, I prefer to have a single schematic symbol that is not dependent of physical pin configuration, and then a footprint that maps the logical pins to to proper pins on the package.) 3. A schematic element doesn't necessarily have a footprint assigned by default. Maybe because gschem can be used standalone (not for PCB) This is a controversial topic among the gEDA community. Symbols with a footprint attribute built-in are termed “heavyweight” symbols, and symbols that do not come with a pre-assigned footprint are called “lightweight” symbols. The problem with heavyweight symbols is that there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Are you making a through-hole design? Then you likely want 1/2 W through-hole resistor footprints. Are you making an SMT design? Then you may want 1206, 0805, 0603, 0402, or some other SMT size resistor. It much more difficult for the case of diodes, LEDs, transistors, capacitors, inductors, switches, etc., because of the wide range of package options in use (even down to transistors with different B/C/E or G/S/D pin mappings...). You can “heavyify” certain symbols for ease of use in specific applications, however, by taking a lightweight footprint, assigning a footprint, and saving it in a new symbol file. Personally, I find that I need to check and double-check every footprint assignment in my design anyway with the actual BOM parts to ensure there are no errors before I lay out the board. Therefore I prefer to have no default footprints, and force myself to assign the proper footprint rather than getting some incorrect default that might slip by my verification. I would like to know any functional (not monetary) advantages of gEDA over eagle, I assume that there are many. I think the simple fact that your designs are not locked into a proprietary system is the first advantage of gEDA. What if EAGLE's maker goes out of business? Will you be able to access and edit your designs when Windows 8 comes around if EAGLE is not ported to it? Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
bsali...@gmail.com wrote: Couple of days back I was able to create a test schematic on gschem but it was not obvious to transfer the schematic to PCB. I guess it will take time to learn. So far I made a few observations comparing eagle: 1. Schematic board are decoupled so any changes to schematic need to be re-synced to the board. I haven't figured out the way yet. This is done by gnetlist. This tool can be called to action in a number of ways: 1) call gsch2pcb with a project file on the command line (traditional way) 2) Use import_schematics from the file menu inside PCB 3) There is a GUI that kind of integrates the components -- xgsch2pcb I would like to know any functional (not monetary) advantages of gEDA over eagle, I assume that there are many. Aspects most important to me: 1) Full support to hierarchical design. That is, sub-sheets can be reused multiple times in the same project. 2) Open source. Friends don't need a license to work with my schematics. No arbitrary limits due to licensing. 3) Way better GUI, both in gschem and in PCB. 5) More development toward a better EDA system. Of course there are drawbacks, too. But you didn't ask ;-) ---)kaimartin(--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak tel: +49-511-762-2895 Universität Hannover, Inst. für Quantenoptik fax: +49-511-762-2211 Welfengarten 1, 30167 Hannover http://www.iqo.uni-hannover.de - not happy with moderation of geda-user mailinglist ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
On Jul 25, 2011, at 11:33 PM, bsali...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to know any functional (not monetary) advantages of gEDA over eagle, I assume that there are many. gEDA can export netlists to many tools (including Eagle), not just pcb. These include simulators like SPICE and gnucap. It can also export circuit equations to Mathematica (and perhaps Sage someday) for symbolic circuit analysis and very fast linear numerical analysis. Separating footprint from symbol reflects reality. What's the footprint of a resistor? Footprint is not even solely a property of the physical component: the same component package may have different footprints for different fabrication processes. In aerospace, footprints often change between prototype and production. The gEDA schematic file format is easy to parse and synthesize, leading to a variety of specialized tools for manipulating schematics and symbols. gEDA is not limited to printed circuits. I've done ASIC design with it, and I've heard of hydraulic design. In short, gEDA is a flexible toolkit without the limits inherent in an integrated tool. You can adapt it to the needs of your job, rather than having to adapt your job to the tool. Have a look at gedasymbols.org for a smorgasbord of user-contributed symbols, footprints, and tools. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
Hi, I guess that his question might have been asked before but is there any howto or tutorial to migrate from Eagle to gEDA? I tried Google searches but no meaningful information has been found. Thanks ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:17:39 -0700 bsali...@gmail.com bsali...@gmail.com wrote: I guess that his question might have been asked before but is there any howto or tutorial to migrate from Eagle to gEDA? I tried Google searches but no meaningful information has been found. Do you mean migration of particular designs (schematic/layout), importing them to gEDA? Or do you mean migrating as a user? I have never used Eagle, so I can't be of any specific assistance in that regard. However, I can say that while there are tutorial on gschem/PCB and the general gEDA workflow, there is a need for a good, complete tutorial for new users. Because gEDA is designed to support a wide variety of uses and workflow methods, I feel it is not immediately clear to new users how to proceed. Let me share my basic process for designing a circuit and PCB so you can get a feel for how the tools might be used: 0.) Set up a revision control system. Something modern like git or Bazaar is best. Commit frequently, and write descriptive commit messages! (I find this useful as a journal or log to come back to myself about what I've done on the design, not to mention saving yourself from screwups...) 1.) Draw schematic with gschem, placing symbols and drawing net connections. Various steps required as part of drawing the basic schematic: - Import any special symbols not in the default library from gedasymbols.org - If you can't find the symbol you need, draw custom symbol in gschem, save as .sym file. - Run a schematic design rule check (DRC) with “gnetlist”; fix any DRC errors. 2.) Assign footprints to all components in the schematic. You can do this in gschem or using gattrib (table view). - Import any special footprints from gedasymbols.org - If you can't find an appropriate footprint, create one in the “pcb” tool. (Takes some practice, but after a while it becomes straightforward.) - Make sure the footprints you are using are correct for the parts you are going to use. - Check footprints to make sure that pin assignments from schematic symbol to PCB footprint is correct!! Watch out for LEDs, diodes, polarized capacitors, etc. that may have pins identified only as “1” and “2”. (I often use my own custom symbols/footprints with more descriptive, logical pin identifiers like “P” and “N” on diodes for P-type and N-type terminals.) 3.) Lay out the board. - Import schematic into pcb. - Set “preferences” for the design such as minimum copper clearance, board dimensions, layer stackup, etc. - Set up the grid as you prefer. - Place components. - Route tracks with lines. (You can use autorouter, but that is a personal preference... I have always done manual routing.) - Draw board outline on the “outline” layer. - Add ground flood if desired. 4.) Verify design. - Run DRC in the pcb program; fix any problems such as “copper areas too close”, etc. - Print out the PCB layout at 1:1 scale on paper and actually place the parts on it. This is a sanity check to make sure footprints are correct and spacing around certain parts are sufficient (e.g., need enough spacing around some connectors, switches, jumpers, sockets, heat sinks, etc.). I'm no wizard, just a novice, but I've done a few dozen designs and am feeling very comfortable in gEDA myself so hopefully this is helpful. One thing that I've found is that it is worthwhile to “error-proof” yourself through your process. Some of the common errors I've made are related to incorrect pin assignments or footprint assignments, so I take special care to validate those. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Migration form eagle to gEDA
Recently I wrote a small script to automate some of the things needed to be done after the gEDA tools are installed: such as setting up per-user symbols and footprint directories; and adding these to the gafrc and gschemrc files, etc... The script (Setup_gEDA.sh) is well commented and can be downloaded from here: [1]http://sites.google.com/site/abhijit86k/linux/geda Its really quite basic, but i hope it helps someone... Thanks and Regards, ~Abhijit On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 22:41, Colin D Bennett [2]co...@gibibit.com wrote: On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 19:17:39 -0700 [3]bsali...@gmail.com [4]bsali...@gmail.com wrote: I guess that his question might have been asked before but is there any howto or tutorial to migrate from Eagle to gEDA? I tried Google searches but no meaningful information has been found. Do you mean migration of particular designs (schematic/layout), importing them to gEDA? Or do you mean migrating as a user? I have never used Eagle, so I can't be of any specific assistance in that regard. � However, I can say that while there are tutorial on gschem/PCB and the general gEDA workflow, there is a need for a good, complete tutorial for new users. Because gEDA is designed to support a wide variety of uses and workflow methods, I feel it is not immediately clear to new users how to proceed. Let me share my basic process for designing a circuit and PCB so you can get a feel for how the tools might be used: 0.) Set up a revision control system. � � Something modern like git or Bazaar is best. � � Commit frequently, and write descriptive commit messages! � � (I find this useful as a journal or log to come back to myself about � � what I've done on the design, not to mention saving yourself from � � screwups...) 1.) Draw schematic with gschem, placing symbols and drawing net � � connections. � � Various steps required as part of drawing the basic schematic: � � - Import any special symbols not in the default library from � � � [5]gedasymbols.org � � - If you can't find the symbol you need, draw custom symbol � � � in gschem, save as .sym file. � � - Run a schematic design rule check (DRC) with �gnetlist�; � � � fix any DRC errors. 2.) Assign footprints to all components in the schematic. � � You can do this in gschem or using gattrib (table view). � � - Import any special footprints from [6]gedasymbols.org � � - If you can't find an appropriate footprint, create one in the � � � �pcb� tool. (Takes some practice, but after a while it becomes � � � straightforward.) � � - Make sure the footprints you are using are correct for the � � � parts you are going to use. � � - Check footprints to make sure that pin assignments from � � � schematic symbol to PCB footprint is correct!! Watch out for � � � LEDs, diodes, polarized capacitors, etc. that may have pins � � � identified only as �1� and �2�. � (I often use my own custom � � � symbols/footprints with more descriptive, logical pin identifiers � � � like �P� and �N� on diodes for P-type and N-type terminals.) 3.) Lay out the board. � � - Import schematic into pcb. � � - Set �preferences� for the design such as minimum copper � � � clearance, board dimensions, layer stackup, etc. � � - Set up the grid as you prefer. � � - Place components. � � - Route tracks with lines. � (You can use autorouter, but that is a � � � personal preference... I have always done manual routing.) � � - Draw board outline on the �outline� layer. � � - Add ground flood if desired. 4.) Verify design. � � - Run DRC in the pcb program; fix any problems such as �copper areas � � � too close�, etc. � � - Print out the PCB layout at 1:1 scale on paper and actually place � � � the parts on it. � This is a sanity check to make sure footprints � � � are correct and spacing around certain parts are sufficient � � � (e.g., need enough spacing around some connectors, switches, � � � jumpers, sockets, heat sinks, etc.). I'm no wizard, just a novice, but I've done a few dozen designs and am feeling very comfortable in gEDA myself so hopefully this is helpful. One thing that I've found is that it is worthwhile to �error-proof� yourself through your process. � Some of the common errors I've made are related to incorrect pin assignments or footprint assignments, so I take special care to validate those. Regards, Colin ___ geda-user mailing list [7]geda-user@moria.seul.org [8]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References
