Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
It's great to hear the words yankees and bostonian in the same sentence :)Go Yankees!!!- Original Message -From: Stuart Brorson Date: Friday, March 9, 2007 7:01 amSubject: Re: gEDA-user: freedog picturesTo: gEDA user mailing list Just a couple of photos from tonight's meeting... http://www.delorie.com/photos/20070308-freedog/I forgot to ask. Why are the meetings called freedog meetings? It's the Free EDA User's Group = FreeEDAUG = Free Dog. Acutally, this spelling of daug is more properly pronounced dawg, which is an American hillbilly way of pronouncing the word. But since we're Yankees (i.e. Bostonians), we say dog. :-) Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user div ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
To southerners a Yankee is a northerner who visits the south and a damn yankee is one who stays Stuart Brorson wrote: On Sat, 10 Mar 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's great to hear the words yankees and bostonian in the same sentence :)Go Yankees!!! *Chuckle* Warning -- this is wy off topic! I am reminded of the the old saying, which goes something like this: To foreigners, a Yankee is an American. To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner. To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner. (...or New York's baseball team -- SDB) To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander. To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter. And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast. Stuart ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
On 3/9/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, there is this intriguing board with a db-9, to-220 and some totally elegant T-shaped trace ... what is it? Cool! That board is the Zigbee radio board for my MSP430F169 board. The DB-9 is an RS-232 port (the uC board has a USB port). The T-shaped trace is a folded dipole that should match the Chipcon 2500 reference design. I do not see a TO220 ;-) Also on the board is an LCD port, a couple of switches, a pot, a light sensor, temperature sensor, a couple of LEDs and a 3.5mm terminal block. The terminal block has two digital lines, two DAC lines, two A/D lines, +3.3V, +5V and GND. The 6 Iines that go to the uC have TVS protection. The jumpers along the side of the board enable the LCD and RS232 sections to be cut off without leaving exposed copper. (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:17 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: Just a couple of photos from tonight's meeting... http://www.delorie.com/photos/20070308-freedog/ I forgot to ask. Why are the meetings called freedog meetings? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
That board is the Zigbee radio board for my MSP430F169 board. The DB-9 is an RS-232 port (the uC board has a USB port). The T-shaped trace is a folded dipole that should match the Chipcon 2500 reference design. I do not see a TO220 ;-) I'd be interested to know how you copied the reference design. I made some Chipcon 2420 Zigbee boards a couple of years ago using Orcad and just tried my best to get the layout and dimensions right by measuring things on the reference gerbers using a gerber viewer (the boards work fine as it turns out). Since it's quite common to get reference designs that include gerbers, I was wondering if it would be feasible to to convert these back into, effectively, a pcb footprint. I'd have thought there was enough information in the gerber and drill files to do this - but I admit I haven't thought it through. -- Peter Baxendale [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Since it's quite common to get reference designs that include gerbers, I was wondering if it would be feasible to to convert these back into, effectively, a pcb footprint. I'd have thought there was enough information in the gerber and drill files to do this - but I admit I haven't thought it through. I talked with a friend of mine (who is our PCB layout guy) about this once, and the sense that I got was that, while it appears that it should be a simple thing to do, it is a non-trivial problem. My understanding is that gerber files are simply artwork -- put copper (or remove copper from) here. Put a silkscreen that looks like that there. Drill holes here. The hard part is that while it may be obvious to us humans that that section right there is U4, there is nothing in the gerber files that associate the characters U and 4 on the silk screen layer with the bunch of artwork on layer 1. I'm not saying it can't be done, and I have an interest in seeing it get done as well, it seems like it is a tough nut to crack. (Please take all of these comments with the very large grain of salt that they deserve.) When I started thinking about this some more as I was writing this email, I started thinking: Gee, what if I were to create a netlist from the gerber file, and then write some sort of netlist correlator that would compare the generated netlist to a netlist produced by gschem and rename/renumber parts until they were identical. The problem, as I see it, with that approach is the gerber file will show a bunch of traces coverging on a certain area of the board in a certain pattern, but there's nothing to really associate them with the part that will be soldered on those lands. (The pick and place file could probably help here, but I don't think I've ever seen those distributed with the reference designs.) Anyway, that's my $0.02 of rain for sombody's parade :-) --wpd ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Since it's quite common to get reference designs that include gerbers, I was wondering if it would be feasible to to convert these back into, effectively, a pcb footprint. Actually, I've often thought that we should advertise gEDA to the big chip guys as a method to distribute reference designs -- schematics, layouts, and Gerbers. Since gEDA is completely free (both cost-free and open source), it's a good, neutral vehicle for chip vendors to distribute reference designs. Any engineer who wants to use the reference design can grab the tools off teh web, open the reference design file, and make immediate use of the reference design. Indeed, it would speed up the design process if I could just open a vendor's reference design copy/paste the parts I wanted directly into my schematic instead of having to re-draw everything. Now that's design re-use! A different point: In the past we have discussed creating a utility which would read a Gerber file and output either a .pcb or a .fp file corresponding to the contents of the Gerber. Maybe the utility could be instructed to know which file is associated with which PCB layer? In any event, the utility would make it easy to load a legacy board Gerber, and then make easy edits in it. Stuart [1] OK, Linux/unix/Mac only, but who cares about those other operating systems? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
A different point: In the past we have discussed creating a utility which would read a Gerber file and output either a .pcb or a .fp file corresponding to the contents of the Gerber. Maybe the utility could be instructed to know which file is associated with which PCB layer? In any event, the utility would make it easy to load a legacy board Gerber, and then make easy edits in it. That's the kind of thing I had in mind. Reconstructing the higher level information sounds hard (or maybe impossible), but getting it into a form you could load into pcb sounds more feasible. With the help of a suitable config file you could guide it which layers to map to which files, and maybe even assign pseudo pin connections to the points that need to connect to other circuitry. -- Peter Baxendale [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Since gEDA is completely free (both cost-free and open source), it's a good, neutral vehicle for chip vendors to distribute reference designs. Any engineer who wants to use the reference design can grab the tools off teh web, open the reference design file, and make immediate use of the reference design. Indeed, it would speed up the design process if I could just open a vendor's reference design copy/paste the parts I wanted directly into my schematic instead of having to re-draw everything. Now that's design re-use! I swear a pig just flew past my window. -- Peter Baxendale [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
daug is more properly pronounced dawg, which is an American hillbilly way of pronouncing the word. But since we're Yankees (i.e. Bostonians), we say dog. :-) Stuart Those New Yorkers might say it like free-dug -- three syllables. John Griessen Austin TX where we might say it free-daaowg -- two syllables with twang, or free-dawg quick, chicago english, no twang. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
The furnace controller board looks nice. Appears that the rj45 is in the wrong spot ?? The ethernet board is stacked on top of the gumstix, which is stacked on top of the furnace board. The prototype (which is what you see) has the RJ45 still on the ethernet board. The one that ends up in the furnace will have a dedicated gumstix, and I'll desolder the RJ45 and transplant it to the lower edge of the board. http://www.delorie.com/house/furnace/pcb2/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
The thumbnails are too small to see anything, and the large version take long time to load. Could you add a size in-between for us who just want to see what is going on and not measure the width of the PCB-tracks :-) I recompressed them with the Gimp, they're about 1/3 the file size for the same size picture now. -rw-r--r-- 1 dj games 473743 Mar 9 11:17 img_1023.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 dj games 471389 Mar 9 11:17 img_1024.jpg -rw-r--r-- 1 dj games 645753 Mar 9 11:17 img_1025.jpg ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
I forgot to ask. Why are the meetings called freedog meetings? Free EDA Users Group. Technically, it's freeedaug. http://www.freeedaug.org/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:22 -0500, DJ Delorie wrote: I forgot to ask. Why are the meetings called freedog meetings? Free EDA Users Group. Technically, it's freeedaug. http://www.freeedaug.org/ Thanks, all, for the explanations. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
On Mar 9, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Stuart Brorson wrote: Since it's quite common to get reference designs that include gerbers, I was wondering if it would be feasible to to convert these back into, effectively, a pcb footprint. Actually, I've often thought that we should advertise gEDA to the big chip guys as a method to distribute reference designs -- schematics, layouts, and Gerbers. I think one good way to approach this would be to pitch the *file format*, not the software...at first. The industry has proven that it will standardize on file formats (witness Gerber RS-274X) if they work well. Granted the Gerber format (as far as I know) really became well-accepted because equipment that used it was popular, but I'm not sure that matters all that much. Hmm, I dunno...it's a half-baked idea. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
I think one good way to approach this would be to pitch the *file format*, not the software...at first. The industry has proven that it will standardize on file formats (witness Gerber RS-274X) if they work well. Granted the Gerber format (as far as I know) really became well-accepted because equipment that used it was popular, but I'm not sure that matters all that much. I think the footprint format would need a lot more flexibility if it were to be accepted elsewhere. For example, the ability to have polygon pads, or different pin diameters on different layers, or paste patterns for heatsinks. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Stuart Brorson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I've often thought that we should advertise gEDA to the big chip guys as a method to distribute reference designs -- schematics, layouts, and Gerbers. Yeah, right... When you find a chip vendor like that, please let me know. Anyone care to guess what kind of reference design I have received from the vendor for the chip in my design (RS8973 HDSL/SDSL transceiver)? They gave me an encrypted ZIP and refused to tell me the password, requiring me to expend 5 months of CPU time to crack it by brute force (trying all 95 printable ASCII chars including space, turned out to be 7 chars long). You can read the full gory details here: http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/OpenSDSL/mindspeed.html MS ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
RE: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Actually, I've often thought that we should advertise gEDA to the big chip guys as a method to distribute reference designs -- schematics, layouts, and Gerbers. I think one good way to approach this would be to pitch the *file format*, not the software...at first. The industry has proven that it will standardize on file formats (witness Gerber RS-274X) if they work well. Granted the Gerber format (as far as I know) really became well-accepted because equipment that used it was popular, but I'm not sure that matters all that much. Hmm, I dunno...it's a half-baked idea. Give it a little more time in the oven, and it should be fine ;-D Dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Just a couple of photos from tonight's meeting... http://www.delorie.com/photos/20070308-freedog/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
Yo DJ, The furnace controller board looks nice. Appears that the rj45 is in the wrong spot ?? Also, there is this intriguing board with a db-9, to-220 and some totally elegant T-shaped trace ... what is it? Cool! Phil DJ Delorie wrote: Just a couple of photos from tonight's meeting... http://www.delorie.com/photos/20070308-freedog/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: freedog pictures
On 3/9/07, DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a couple of photos from tonight's meeting... http://www.delorie.com/photos/20070308-freedog/ The thumbnails are too small to see anything, and the large version take long time to load. Could you add a size in-between for us who just want to see what is going on and not measure the width of the PCB-tracks :-) Looks like a nice place, by the way. Kind regards, Svenn ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
