Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sat, 30 Oct 2010, Oliver King-Smith wrote: Maciej, There is a small development script that allows you to drop into a guile shell on the gEDA website. The shell auto completes so you can see a list of all available commands. You can also try things live. I found this very helpful when I was starting out with gnetlist. Here is the development script in case you can't find it. (use-modules (ice-9 readline)) (activate-readline) (define (devel output-filename) (scm-style-repl) I already tried this before posting, it don't work even for gnetlist producing following output: Backtrace: In current input: 1: 0* (ptest output.net) unnamed port:1:1: In expression (ptest output.net): unnamed port:1:1: Unbound variable: ptest for gschem there is even no such output, i have guile-1.8.5 if that changes anything. I read John P. Doty gnetlist tutorial but unfortunatelly packages variable seems to be gnetlist specific, and it is not present in gschem. Maciej Oliver -- Maciej Pijanka I don't fear computers, I fear lack of them -- Isaac Asimov ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Oct 31, 2010, at 5:07 AM, Maciej Pijanka wrote: I already tried this before posting, it don't work even for gnetlist producing following output: Backtrace: In current input: 1: 0* (ptest output.net) unnamed port:1:1: In expression (ptest output.net): unnamed port:1:1: Unbound variable: ptest It means you haven't defined ptest. for gschem there is even no such output, i have guile-1.8.5 if that changes anything. I read John P. Doty gnetlist tutorial but unfortunatelly packages variable seems to be gnetlist specific, and it is not present in gschem. You seem to be trying to do a gnetlist task from within gschem. Don't do that. Use the right tool for the job. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010, John Doty wrote: On Oct 31, 2010, at 5:07 AM, Maciej Pijanka wrote: I already tried this before posting, it don't work even for gnetlist producing following output: Backtrace: In current input: 1: 0* (ptest output.net) unnamed port:1:1: In expression (ptest output.net): unnamed port:1:1: Unbound variable: ptest It means you haven't defined ptest. Yes, but this is what i get when i created gnet-devel with gnet-ptest name, so i think i missed something important, maybe it need also define procedure which name is derived from invoked backend name that is called by gnetlist after processing schematics. for gschem there is even no such output, i have guile-1.8.5 if that changes anything. I read John P. Doty gnetlist tutorial but unfortunatelly packages variable seems to be gnetlist specific, and it is not present in gschem. You seem to be trying to do a gnetlist task from within gschem. Don't do that. Use the right tool for the job. Why, i wanted to create some scheme script to be invoked from gschem to show/hide pinnumbers on currently opened schematics, why i would use gnetlist for that? John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com -- Maciej Pijanka I don't fear computers, I fear lack of them -- Isaac Asimov ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Maciej Pijanka wrote: On Sun, 31 Oct 2010, John Doty wrote: On Oct 31, 2010, at 5:07 AM, Maciej Pijanka wrote: I already tried this before posting, it don't work even for gnetlist producing following output: Backtrace: In current input: 1: 0* (ptest output.net) unnamed port:1:1: In expression (ptest output.net): unnamed port:1:1: Unbound variable: ptest It means you haven't defined ptest. Yes, but this is what i get when i created gnet-devel with gnet-ptest name, so i think i missed something important, maybe it need also define procedure which name is derived from invoked backend name that is called by gnetlist after processing schematics. Yes. for gschem there is even no such output, i have guile-1.8.5 if that changes anything. I read John P. Doty gnetlist tutorial but unfortunatelly packages variable seems to be gnetlist specific, and it is not present in gschem. You seem to be trying to do a gnetlist task from within gschem. Don't do that. Use the right tool for the job. Why, i wanted to create some scheme script to be invoked from gschem to show/hide pinnumbers on currently opened schematics, why i would use gnetlist for that? For the same reason that you wouldn't want to use pliers as a hammer. gschem has very little knowledge of what the graphics *mean*. This is a very good thing, a key feature of gEDA's design, one that distinguishes it from all the fritterware out there. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
Why, i wanted to create some scheme script to be invoked from gschem to show/hide pinnumbers on currently opened schematics, why i would use gnetlist for that? For the same reason that you wouldn't want to use pliers as a hammer. gschem has very little knowledge of what the graphics *mean*. This is a very good thing, a key feature of gEDA's design, one that distinguishes it from all the fritterware out there. When a user complains that they can't get their work done, the WRONG answer is to tell them they're better off that way. PCB's plugins can iterate through all the foo on the current board. It's really useful, and something you'd expect a layout app to be able to do. Why shouldn't our schematic editor be able to iterate through all the foo on the current schematic? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 10:41 -0600, John Doty wrote: For the same reason that you wouldn't want to use pliers as a hammer. gschem has very little knowledge of what the graphics *mean*. This is a very good thing, a key feature of gEDA's design, one that distinguishes it from all the fritterware out there. There are some physicists with very less knowledge of electronics, and there are electronics engineers with very less knowledge of physics. That may be OK, but may be a problem in a team doing astronomic space observation. For gEDA, a gschem variant with some more knowledge about electronics may be not too bad, e.g. for detecting wrong wirings during schematic entry. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010, John Doty wrote: On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Maciej Pijanka wrote: On Sun, 31 Oct 2010, John Doty wrote: On Oct 31, 2010, at 5:07 AM, Maciej Pijanka wrote: I already tried this before posting, it don't work even for gnetlist producing following output: Backtrace: In current input: 1: 0* (ptest output.net) unnamed port:1:1: In expression (ptest output.net): unnamed port:1:1: Unbound variable: ptest It means you haven't defined ptest. Yes, but this is what i get when i created gnet-devel with gnet-ptest name, so i think i missed something important, maybe it need also define procedure which name is derived from invoked backend name that is called by gnetlist after processing schematics. Yes. So i understand why simple test failed, but my problem this time isn't even near gnetlist for me. for gschem there is even no such output, i have guile-1.8.5 if that changes anything. I read John P. Doty gnetlist tutorial but unfortunatelly packages variable seems to be gnetlist specific, and it is not present in gschem. You seem to be trying to do a gnetlist task from within gschem. Don't do that. Use the right tool for the job. Why, i wanted to create some scheme script to be invoked from gschem to show/hide pinnumbers on currently opened schematics, why i would use gnetlist for that? For the same reason that you wouldn't want to use pliers as a hammer. gschem has very little knowledge of what the graphics *mean*. This is a very good thing, a key feature of gEDA's design, one that distinguishes it from all the fritterware out there. But i don't want app to *know* what it iterates, just to iterate over all items and expose that possibility to scheme so i could skip entities containing attribute graphical=1 and show pin numbers or any other attribute if it exist on them, or hide them. Why command line tool used to extract/convert/process schematics into not schematic would be best idea to just alter visibility of pins or attributes for whole sheet at once, i just want to save time on click on element, edit-attributes, enable visibility of one, and move cursor to next. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com -- Maciej Pijanka I don't fear computers, I fear lack of them -- Isaac Asimov ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Oct 31, 2010, at 11:00 AM, DJ Delorie wrote: Why, i wanted to create some scheme script to be invoked from gschem to show/hide pinnumbers on currently opened schematics, why i would use gnetlist for that? For the same reason that you wouldn't want to use pliers as a hammer. gschem has very little knowledge of what the graphics *mean*. This is a very good thing, a key feature of gEDA's design, one that distinguishes it from all the fritterware out there. When a user complains that they can't get their work done, Worrying about pin number visibility is not focusing on the work, but focusing on minor aspects of the presentation. That, of course, is the strength of fritterware. the WRONG answer is to tell them they're better off that way. I am extremely grateful that gEDA is not fritterware, but concerned that it might become fritterware. PCB's plugins can iterate through all the foo on the current board. It's really useful, and something you'd expect a layout app to be able to do. PCB is the most troubled tool in the gEDA kit, not a good example for the path forward for the rest of the tools. Why shouldn't our schematic editor be able to iterate through all the foo on the current schematic? For the same reason it's bad to put a hammerhead on a pair of pliers. Most tools should be specialists. Even creating a Swiss Army knife that's genuinely useful requires great discipline in choosing the functions. gEDA is ideally suited for doing this kind of thing with a script *outside* of gschem. I am pleased that gschem remains unusually simple and clean. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
Worrying about pin number visibility is not focusing on the work, but focusing on minor aspects of the presentation. That, of course, is the strength of fritterware. If fritterware is the best way to give the user an environment in which they can be productive, then fritterware is what we'll provide. gEDA is all about getting work done. If the user can work faster without pin numbers distracting them, let's give them a way of hiding the pin numbers. When editing a board, the user has the option of showing pin numbers or not. They're not usually needed, so you can hide them to keep them from being a distraction, but you can show then when you need to see them. Editing a schematic is no different. Saying that hiding pin numbers while editing is a task for a script *outside* of gschem means you truly don't understand how people edit schematics. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 14:15 -0600, John Doty wrote: Worrying about pin number visibility is not focusing on the work, but focusing on minor aspects of the presentation. That, of course, is the strength of fritterware. Presentation may be the work, if you are writing a textbook. Indeed I asked for something similar long time ago, but my desire was not big enough to start hacking. PCB is the most troubled tool in the gEDA kit, not a good example for the path forward for the rest of the tools. In my opinion PCB is much more complicated as gaf. My current estimation: Writing a gschem/gnetlist clone may take about 1000 hours for a smart guy employing modern tools like GTK/QT/Cairo/Pango and an OO language like C++/Java/Puby/Python... Writing a PCB clone should take much more time and needs really smart guys -- DRC (realtime), all the exporters (Gerber), autorouters, and fast 3D drawing. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
Hi, -Original Message- From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Salewski Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:50 PM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 14:15 -0600, John Doty wrote: ... Some deleted stuff was here In my opinion PCB is much more complicated as gaf. My current estimation: Writing a gschem/gnetlist clone may take about 1000 hours for a smart guy employing modern tools like GTK/QT/Cairo/Pango and an OO language like C++/Java/Puby/Python... Writing a PCB clone should take much more time and needs really smart guys -- DRC (realtime), all the exporters (Gerber), autorouters, and fast 3D drawing. FYI according to ohloh.net: gEDA approx. 31 person years effort (http://www.ohloh.net/p/gEDA) Pcb approx. 32 person years effort (http://www.ohloh.net/p/pcb) The difference in LOC is not much larger: gEDA approx. 126k LOC (excluding blanks and comments). Pcb approx. 127K LOC (excluding blanks and comments). I think it's a draw ;-) Kind regards, Bert Timmerman ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sun, 2010-10-31 at 22:12 +0100, Bert Timmerman wrote: FYI according to ohloh.net: gEDA approx. 31 person years effort (http://www.ohloh.net/p/gEDA) Pcb approx. 32 person years effort (http://www.ohloh.net/p/pcb) The difference in LOC is not much larger: gEDA approx. 126k LOC (excluding blanks and comments). Pcb approx. 127K LOC (excluding blanks and comments). I think it's a draw ;-) Really interesting, I was not aware of such a page. Of course I was talking about writing a clone, which is much less work than writing the original. And for things like an schematic editor or netlist generation we have today much support by OO languages and useful libraries like cairo. For PCB stuff like DRC, autorouter and Gerber there is not much support. Personally I consider gaf bloated, by mixing C/guile and splitting into so many parts. Why can gschem not do netlist generation (optional in a non GUI mode) and do symbol checking. And gattrib -- should be part of gschem too. Having PCB editor and schematics editor separated is really a good choice, both tasks are very different. Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
On Sunday 31 October 2010, John Doty wrote: I am extremely grateful that gEDA is not fritterware, but concerned that it might become fritterware. to fritter (third-person singular simple present fritters, present participle frittering, simple past and past participle frittered) 1. To occupy oneself idly or without clear purpose, to tinker with an unimportant part of a project, to dally, sometimes as a form of procrastination. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
Hello I wanted to traverse all symbols placed on current sheet from some script preferably invoked via ft, but so far found that even (add-menu) which worked before for example from pcb.scm, seems to not work on gEDA/gschem version 1.6.1.20100214 any hints where to look? i tried some simple scheme functions like adding (file-new) to my test.scm and this works fine, but i didn't found any routine allowing to get list of items neither some others which seem to require argument aren't working or i am not able to find right arguments for them. best regards Maciej -- Maciej Pijanka I don't fear computers, I fear lack of them -- Isaac Asimov ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting
Maciej, There is a small development script that allows you to drop into a guile shell on the gEDA website. The shell auto completes so you can see a list of all available commands. You can also try things live. I found this very helpful when I was starting out with gnetlist. Here is the development script in case you can't find it. (use-modules (ice-9 readline)) (activate-readline) (define (devel output-filename) (scm-style-repl) Oliver __ From: Maciej Pijanka maciej.pija...@gmail.com To: geda-u...@seul.org Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 4:50:43 PM Subject: gEDA-user: gschem guile scripting Hello I wanted to traverse all symbols placed on current sheet from some script preferably invoked via ft, but so far found that even (add-menu) which worked before for example from pcb.scm, seems to not work on gEDA/gschem version 1.6.1.20100214 any hints where to look? i tried some simple scheme functions like adding (file-new) to my test.scm and this works fine, but i didn't found any routine allowing to get list of items neither some others which seem to require argument aren't working or i am not able to find right arguments for them. best regards Maciej -- Maciej Pijanka I don't fear computers, I fear lack of them -- Isaac Asimov ___ geda-user mailing list [1]geda-u...@moria.seul.org [2]http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user References 1. mailto:geda-user@moria.seul.org 2. http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
