Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog

[Brandon Harris]

FYI: "Mind the Gap" is an ancient(?) achievement in a couple video 
games about skateboarding.

On 9/29/11 11:33 PM, Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Sarah Stierch  > wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Do we have a "Mind the Gap" Gender Gap barnstar yet? :)
>
>
>
> This is a really cool barnstar idea!  Any graphic geniuses who can do this?
>
> pb
>
>
> ___
> Philippe Beaudette
> Head of Reader Relations
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> 415-839-6885, x 6643
>
> phili...@wikimedia.org 
>
>
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-- 
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog

[Béria Lima]

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html
_
*Béria Lima*
Wikimedia Portugal 
(351) 963 953 042

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a
fazer.*


On 30 September 2011 00:37, Ryan Kaldari  wrote:

> **
> Would you like to elaborate?
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>
> I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who
> disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for
> even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post.
>
> Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come
> here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe,
> only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there.
> _
> *Béria Lima*
> Wikimedia Portugal 
> (351) 963 953 042
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
> estamos a fazer.*
>
>
> On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
>> I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as
>> well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics.
>>
>> But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn up
>> by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really
>> tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who
>> dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for
>> bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on
>> Foundation-L! I've been following it.
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>>> ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread
>>> about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be
>>> quite different than yours.
>>> _
>>> *Béria Lima*
>>> Wikimedia Portugal 
>>> (351) 963 953 042
>>>
>>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
>>> estamos a fazer.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari  wrote:
>>>
  Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :)

 Kaldari


 On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote:

 I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this.  Really
 exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good
 writeup.  Thank you, Sue.

 ~A


 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe wrote:

>   Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a
> courageous one, too.
>
>  Andreas
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch * wrote:
>
>
> From: Sarah Stierch 
> Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" <
> gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47
>
>
> http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/
>
>
> A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here
> think about.
>
> I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing
> lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me.
>
> I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense,
> good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me*a 
> censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called.
>
> I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative, censor,
> "anti-woman"... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank you Sue for
> speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself on
> Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my "Wiki" self-esteem 
> torn
> down.I just feel like "giving up."
>
> Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this,
> and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult,
> logical and respectful.
>
> <3
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
> --
> GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia
> Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
> Art
> and
> Sarah Stierch Consulting
> *Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*
> --
> http://www.sarahstierch.com/
>
>
>  -Inline Attachment Follows-
>
> ___
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Re: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog

[Sarah Stierch]

Well, at least this confirms that there are a 14 photos of dudes getting
their *own* rocks off on Commons! Thank god!  (Oh...speaking of
permissions...)

You also have to scroll down a bit in Google search before you come across
the article after searching "sucking your own cock". The fact that the
search finds that page based on one of my favorite films, Clerks, is rather
funny.

Wait, where is Sue a liar?

-Sarah



On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Béria Lima  wrote:

>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2011-September/069078.html
> _
> *Béria Lima*
> Wikimedia Portugal 
> (351) 963 953 042
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
> estamos a fazer.*
>
>
> On 30 September 2011 00:37, Ryan Kaldari  wrote:
>
>> **
>> Would you like to elaborate?
>>
>> Ryan Kaldari
>>
>>
>> On 9/29/11 4:35 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>> I think it works both ways: There you might get stomped on by people who
>> disagree with the lies Sue told in the post, and here I will be stomp up for
>> even mentioned that she did lied in that blog post.
>>
>> Safe environment do not exist in this case. Is safeR for supports to come
>> here, and safeR for opposers to go there. That does not make any list safe,
>> only shows that the POV here is different than the POV there.
>> _
>> *Béria Lima*
>> Wikimedia Portugal 
>> (351) 963 953 042
>>
>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
>> estamos a fazer.*
>>
>>
>> On 30 September 2011 00:25, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure there are some people on this mailing list who also disagree as
>>> well! We try to provide a safe haven for discussion about sensitive topics.
>>>
>>> But, if any of us spoke up on Foundation-L we'd be risking getting torn
>>> up by often heavily opinionated Foundation-L subscribers, and it gets really
>>> tiring :( It is also nice to have a change in opinion - for those who
>>> dislike the post, there are also many of that support it. Thanks for
>>> bringing up that a different type of conversation is taking place on
>>> Foundation-L! I've been following it.
>>>
>>> -Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>>
 ehhh, sorry for be the different, but you people are reading the thread
 about that same blog post in Foundation-l ? The opinions there seems to be
 quite different than yours.
 _
 *Béria Lima*
 Wikimedia Portugal 
 (351) 963 953 042

 *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
 livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que
 estamos a fazer.*



 On 30 September 2011 00:09, Ryan Kaldari wrote:

>  Can I nominate Sue for the Executive Director's Barnstar? :)
>
> Kaldari
>
>
> On 9/29/11 4:06 PM, Amory wrote:
>
> I normally hate +1s, but I would like to echo this.  Really
> exceptionally well crafted, and even for people following it's a very good
> writeup.  Thank you, Sue.
>
> ~A
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 09:36, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
>
>>   Thanks for the link Sarah. It's an outstanding post by Sue, and a
>> courageous one, too.
>>
>>  Andreas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 29/9/11, Sarah Stierch * wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Sarah Stierch 
>> Subject: [Gendergap] Sue's new blog
>> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" <
>> gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Date: Thursday, 29 September, 2011, 7:47
>>
>>
>> http://suegardner.org/2011/09/28/on-editorial-judgment-and-empathy/
>>
>>
>> A lot of things I think about, and I'm sure a lot of other people here
>> think about.
>>
>> I'm sure this blog won't be well received on other WMF-related mailing
>> lists, but, I have to admit - for me - I feel like she's speaking for me.
>>
>> I don't want to be a censor, I just want people to have common sense,
>> good judgement, customer service and logic. And when people call *me*a 
>> censor, it's just as offensive as the other names I've been called.
>>
>> I have beencalled a prude, bitch, agitator, bore, conservative,
>> censor, "anti-woman"... someone with an agenda...etc. I can only thank 
>> you
>> Sue for speaking on behalf of me - when I clumsily try to express myself 
>> on
>> Foundation-L and fear being shot-down and having my "Wiki" self-esteem 
>> torn
>> down.I just feel like "giving up."
>>
>> Thanks. And I promise everyone, some of us are working towards this,
>> and working towards a change and a towards a conversation that is adult,
>> logical and respectful.
>>

[Gendergap] Wikipedia: Changing the Ratio

[Amy Senger]

Hi Folks - I just posted my thoughts on a "Change the Ratio" campaign for
Wikipedia,
that includes a logo my company created with the design help of JESS3 (who
did that State of Wikipedia video: http://jess3.com/the-state-of-wikipedia/
).

In it I mention a Facebook event that I'll be promoting this weekend for
people to change their profile pic to the Change the Ratio logo on Ada
Lovelace day (one week from today, Friday Oct 7):
https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=154261054664442

I'd love to hear your thoughts/comments. There have been so many great ideas
generated on how to address the gendergap issue. I'd love to see more people
executing ideas at the grassroots level and seeing what works:)

Best,
Amy
-- 
*
co-founder, 1X57
www.1x57.com 
M: 202.423.6609
T: @sengseng 

*
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[Gendergap] Girl Geek Dinner Volunteers

[Fiona Apps]

Hey guys!

 

So, I've been speaking at Girl Geek Dinner events in the UK, spreading the
good word about what it is we do, having editing sessions and then getting
feedback from women on why they don't edit, or if they do, how they think
Wikipedia can be improved to be more women-friendly. It's really interesting
to do and the women who are involved are just the most wonderful people you
could ever meet.

 

I am emailing the head of Girl Geek Dinners at the moment to ask whether I
can send an email out to all of the organisations asking if they would like
to have a woman Wikipedian come and speak at their local event. Like I said,
they're all absolutely wonderful, and the crowd size is usually about forty.
They're a global organisation so anyone from anywhere can volunteer for
this!

 

My question is: Is anyone interested? If you are, please do email me with
who your local chapter is and I will make a list so that if we are invited
to these dinners I have a repository of people to invite to speak. The
speech is already written, the format is already arranged and the women are
friendly. So please, come one and all!

 

Fiona /Panyd

 

P.s. We usually bring cake too. Here's coverage from the Bristol event
http://www.bristolwireless.net/2011/08/wikipedians-meet-girl-geeks-and-eat-c
ake/

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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template

[Andreas Kolbe]

What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral 
point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
and could use an image like 
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
The text could say something like: 
"The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion 
on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is 
resolved."
Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
Thoughts? 
Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?  
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Re: [Gendergap] Gender neutrality template

[Pete Forsyth]

Andreas, my preference would be to stick with the NPOV banner we have (which is 
pretty sufficient for all manner of non-neutrality issues), and instead 
encourage people who use it to actually open a discussion on the talk page when 
applying the template.

It is all too common that someone will slap the banner on the top of an 
article, and move on without even mentioning what the problem is. Sometimes the 
banner remains for months or years without any discussion. I don't think that 
is particularly helpful; I would love to see people concerned with gender 
issues (along with many other issues) simply work on asserting their concerns 
in a clear and productive manner on the discussion page.

Also, this might make a great discussion on-wiki discussion topic, for instance 
at: http://enwp.org/WT:FEMINISM

-Pete



On Sep 30, 2011, at 8:30 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:

> What do you think about creating a {{gendergap}} or {{GNPOV}} (gender-neutral 
> point of view) template in en:WP? This could have a format similar to 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:NPOV
> 
> and could use an image like 
> 
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Igualtat_de_sexes.svg
> 
> The text could say something like: 
> 
> "The gender neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion 
> on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is 
> resolved."
> 
> Note that templates of this sort come with associated categories such as
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:NPOV_disputes_from_September_2011
> 
> These categories can help identify articles with active disputes.
> 
> Thoughts? 
> 
> Do we already have a template like that that I am unaware of?  
> 
> Best,
> Andreas
> ___
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Pete Forsyth
petefors...@gmail.com
503-383-9454 mobile

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[Gendergap] Answer: How do German women feel about the image filter?

[Anneke Wolf]

Hello everybody,

let me introduce myself to you. I'm a female editor and long time  
volunteer in the german wikipedia. To answer your question: I voted  
against the image filter and I didn't have a problem with the vulva  
picture on the front page (Ok, I saw better pictures on the front page  
over the years, but I was not shocked and did not think this was such  
a big thing).
As far as I can overlook the recent discussions on the german  
wikipedia, the german blogosphere, facebook and a lot of personal  
talks I had to other female editors in the last weeks most of them  
thinks exactly the same. Why that? I don't know. Maybe because filters  
aren't very popular in germany at all, maybe it's because we have  
state schools with a curriculum in sexual education and you can see  
those pictures in your school books.

Maybe that wasn't the answer you expected but I had the feeling I had  
to answer to this.

Kind regards
Anneke (Kellerkind)

P.S. And, no, I'm not to shy to post on foundation-l but I'm not  
interested in subscribing _to_much_ mailinglists, so I'm happy to read  
the web-archives (And I will do exactly the same with this list after  
this post).

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[Gendergap] vulgar jokes and sexualized environments on Wikipedia

[Ryan Kaldari]

Twice recently I have been reverted for removing vulgar jokes from 
article talk pages on the English Wikipedia - most recently for removing 
a joke who's punchline was "A woman's anus after she was sodomized!". 
Although I appreciate the use of humor on Wikipedia, and support the 
inclusion of potentially offensive material within appropriate contexts, 
I think these type of jokes are not appropriate on talk pages and create 
a sexualized environment that is often unwelcoming for women (as well as 
people from other cultures/religions/backgrounds). I think this issue is 
pertinent to the gender gap (unlike my other recent posts), and would 
like to hear other people's opinions. I've also started a discussion at 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Vulgar_jokes for 
broader input.

Ryan Kaldari

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Re: [Gendergap] vulgar jokes and sexualized environments on Wikipedia

[Sydney Poore]

On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:

> Twice recently I have been reverted for removing vulgar jokes from
> article talk pages on the English Wikipedia - most recently for removing
> a joke who's punchline was "A woman's anus after she was sodomized!".
> Although I appreciate the use of humor on Wikipedia, and support the
> inclusion of potentially offensive material within appropriate contexts,
> I think these type of jokes are not appropriate on talk pages and create
> a sexualized environment that is often unwelcoming for women (as well as
> people from other cultures/religions/backgrounds). I think this issue is
> pertinent to the gender gap (unlike my other recent posts), and would
> like to hear other people's opinions. I've also started a discussion at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Vulgar_jokes for
> broader input.
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>

Thank you Ryan for removing the post from the pregnancy page, and starting
the discussion about not making vulgar jokes on site.

I left you my newly developed "Community health barnstar" for the way that
you make the community a more welcoming place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kaldari#A_Community_health_barnstar_for_you.21

Sydney Poore

Sydney
User
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Re: [Gendergap] vulgar jokes and sexualized environments on Wikipedia

[Fred Bauder]

> Twice recently I have been reverted for removing vulgar jokes from
> article talk pages on the English Wikipedia - most recently for removing
> a joke who's punchline was "A woman's anus after she was sodomized!".
> Although I appreciate the use of humor on Wikipedia, and support the
> inclusion of potentially offensive material within appropriate contexts,
> I think these type of jokes are not appropriate on talk pages and create
> a sexualized environment that is often unwelcoming for women (as well as
> people from other cultures/religions/backgrounds). I think this issue is
> pertinent to the gender gap (unlike my other recent posts), and would
> like to hear other people's opinions. I've also started a discussion at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Vulgar_jokes for
> broader input.
>
> Ryan Kaldari

Such material may not only be removed but may be deleted under WP:RD2 as
grossly offensive and degrading.

I have not done so pending resolution of the discussion.

Fred



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Re: [Gendergap] vulgar jokes and sexualized environments on Wikipedia

[Ryan Kaldari]

It seems from my experience that WP:RD2 is usually interpreted fairly 
narrowly, at least in the cases I've tried to use it. Specifically it 
requires the material to be "grossly" offensive and excludes "'ordinary' 
incivility". In the world of Wikipedia, grossly offensive is a pretty 
high bar it seems. Right now, I have a hard time even convincing people 
that this sort of stuff is incivil, much less worthy of revision deletion.

My favorite example is the Talk Page for Rubyfruit Jungle. It took 4 
years, 10 editors, and a couple of edit wars to remove a joke posted by 
an anonymous IP about vaginas smelling like fish.

Ryan Kaldari

On 9/30/11 3:19 PM, Fred Bauder wrote:
>> Twice recently I have been reverted for removing vulgar jokes from
>> article talk pages on the English Wikipedia - most recently for removing
>> a joke who's punchline was "A woman's anus after she was sodomized!".
>> Although I appreciate the use of humor on Wikipedia, and support the
>> inclusion of potentially offensive material within appropriate contexts,
>> I think these type of jokes are not appropriate on talk pages and create
>> a sexualized environment that is often unwelcoming for women (as well as
>> people from other cultures/religions/backgrounds). I think this issue is
>> pertinent to the gender gap (unlike my other recent posts), and would
>> like to hear other people's opinions. I've also started a discussion at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Civility#Vulgar_jokes for
>> broader input.
>>
>> Ryan Kaldari
> Such material may not only be removed but may be deleted under WP:RD2 as
> grossly offensive and degrading.
>
> I have not done so pending resolution of the discussion.
>
> Fred
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] vulgar jokes and sexualized environments on Wikipedia

[Fred Bauder]

> It seems from my experience that WP:RD2 is usually interpreted fairly
> narrowly, at least in the cases I've tried to use it. Specifically it
> requires the material to be "grossly" offensive and excludes "'ordinary'
> incivility". In the world of Wikipedia, grossly offensive is a pretty
> high bar it seems. Right now, I have a hard time even convincing people
> that this sort of stuff is incivil, much less worthy of revision
> deletion.
>
> My favorite example is the Talk Page for Rubyfruit Jungle. It took 4
> years, 10 editors, and a couple of edit wars to remove a joke posted by
> an anonymous IP about vaginas smelling like fish.
>
> Ryan Kaldari

It is the responsibility of administrators to apply WP:RD2 fairly and
appropriately.

Fred





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Re: [Gendergap] Weird lame body fashion whatever website of the day

[Gillian White]

I changed the image of a uniform example in the gallery of [[Neckline]] to
one showing the V-neckline in use by both sexes (and without the confusing
additional undershirt neckline). Hope that's more balanced, representative
and clear.
Gillian



On 18 September 2011 06:28, Emily Monroe  wrote:

> Holy...what?
>
> I don't know how to respond.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Arnaud HERVE wrote:
>
>>  By the way the Italian page shows porn model Aria Giovanni.
>>
>>
>> On 17/09/2011 18:31, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>>
>> Neckline!!
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neckline
>>
>> The choices are really mediocre for the "neckline" women's section.  One
>> of the photos is titled "Boobies.jpg."
>>
>> :P
>>
>> --
>> GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia 
>> Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
>> Art
>> and
>> Sarah Stierch Consulting
>> *Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*
>> --
>> http://www.sarahstierch.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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>
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