[Gendergap] Commons Searches
Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas From: Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
WHOA that's fascinating...weird...disturbing..something Perhaps that's why someone asked about electric toothbrushes and cucumbers on #wikimedia-gendergap the other day :P -Sarah On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas -- *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_review_for_Baseball_Bugs The first unblock statement shares the link to the joke and the reprimand by an admin on the users page telling them they can get blocked for ongoing comments like that. Fluffernutter points out that there is a boyzone in Wikipedia and that it's not right to mock a users gender. I do appreciate Fluffernuter speaking up about this, I know it's not always something that she likes to get mixed up with (so to say - as we talked about in IRC today). A dialogue takes place ranging from people thinking the joke wasn't sexist, to Fluffernutter is being PC. I don't believe that the user the joke was directed at participates in the conversation - for all we know they might have not been offended - but, this is just another example of how people seem to be unclear about what sexist behavior is. Where I've worked and attended school, it was always very clear that behavior or comments like that were/are not prohibited, but more often than not, people don't speak up when people behave poorly (silent victims). Unlike on Wikipedia, where people generally do speak up - the shroud of the internet, I suppose. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, an educational environment. And when people have to start questioning Is this offensive or not? Is it sexist or not? then clearly there is a problem with something in the culture and system. -Sarah Stierch -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_review_for_Baseball_Bugs The first unblock statement shares the link to the joke and the reprimand by an admin on the users page telling them they can get blocked for ongoing comments like that. Fluffernutter points out that there is a boyzone in Wikipedia and that it's not right to mock a users gender. I do appreciate Fluffernuter speaking up about this, I know it's not always something that she likes to get mixed up with (so to say - as we talked about in IRC today). A dialogue takes place ranging from people thinking the joke wasn't sexist, to Fluffernutter is being PC. I don't believe that the user the joke was directed at participates in the conversation - for all we know they might have not been offended - but, this is just another example of how people seem to be unclear about what sexist behavior is. Where I've worked and attended school, it was always very clear that behavior or comments like that were/are not prohibited, but more often than not, people don't speak up when people behave poorly (silent victims). Unlike on Wikipedia, where people generally do speak up - the shroud of the internet, I suppose. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, an educational environment. And when people have to start questioning Is this offensive or not? Is it sexist or not? then clearly there is a problem with something in the culture and system. -Sarah Stierch I'm just looking into this and am not happy. There was a great wind from all quarters... It gets complicated fast. What the hell is this: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneousdiff=453620216oldid=453618738 Fred ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
You are right, of course, what we do is bad enough, without having to answer for the expectations of what our gender is expected to do. Fred Thanks for posting this, Sarah. I was hesitant to link to it while it was an active thread. My basic feeling in this case was that the user's comments weren't *particularly* terrible, and all of us who are sensitive to gender issues have probably seen way worse. A block may well have been overkill in this situation. However, I'm concerned that the way that thread played it out gave an overwhelmingly strong impression that oh, you're not a woman sort of comments are completely fine, and that anyone who says otherwise is a PC, tiny, reactive minority. I was really disappointed to be the only person who showed up to that thread who could understand how the comments could even be *perceived* as a problem. Just when we think gender concerns may be penetrating the wiki's consciousness, we get something like and I go, ...oh. Sigh. There's nothing to be done with regard to this particular case at this point, and I hasten to ask that people not descend on the (now-close) thread, or the (now-unblocked) user. But I would like to see a conversation about how we can address this sort of Of COURSE it's fine! attitude. -Fluffernutter On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.comwrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Block_review_for_Baseball_Bugs The first unblock statement shares the link to the joke and the reprimand by an admin on the users page telling them they can get blocked for ongoing comments like that. Fluffernutter points out that there is a boyzone in Wikipedia and that it's not right to mock a users gender. I do appreciate Fluffernuter speaking up about this, I know it's not always something that she likes to get mixed up with (so to say - as we talked about in IRC today). A dialogue takes place ranging from people thinking the joke wasn't sexist, to Fluffernutter is being PC. I don't believe that the user the joke was directed at participates in the conversation - for all we know they might have not been offended - but, this is just another example of how people seem to be unclear about what sexist behavior is. Where I've worked and attended school, it was always very clear that behavior or comments like that were/are not prohibited, but more often than not, people don't speak up when people behave poorly (silent victims). Unlike on Wikipedia, where people generally do speak up - the shroud of the internet, I suppose. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, an educational environment. And when people have to start questioning Is this offensive or not? Is it sexist or not? then clearly there is a problem with something in the culture and system. -Sarah Stierch -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches
Thanks for the link, Brandon. I had raised this in the image filter discussions on Foundation-l yesterday (as well as on http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Kurier ), and it seems to have triggered some thought, which is all for the good. Here are searches that deliver similar results in Wikipedia and Commons: pearl necklace cucumber Zahnbürste (German for toothbrush) toothbrush electric toothbrushes jumping ball underwater ... and likely many, many others. Andreas From: Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 21:31 Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches Funnily, I just answered that question on Quora: http://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-second-image-returned-on-Wikimedia-Commons-when-one-searches-for-electric-toothbrush-an-image-of-a-female-masturbating On 10/12/11 7:48 AM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Brandon, On a matter that originally arose in Meta and on the Foundation list, but may be of interest to this list as well, do you know the answer to the question posed here ... http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2011-October/006290.html ... or do you know someone who does? Andreas *From:* Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.org *To:* Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 October 2011, 6:13 *Subject:* Re: [Gendergap] Mind the Gap Award is here. (offlist) I think your efforts are perfect, and above and beyond. I don't need to step in here. On 10/11/11 10:10 PM, Jutta von Dincklage wrote: Brandon, I still think we need to remake the logo. This was just a quick, basic whiz. I would still love your graphic skills on this one if you can spare the time ... cause I am a woman and I truly appreciate amazing design ... and this award deserves it ;-) Ah, too fast for me! I was about to remake the entire thing, but got stuck trying to find an acceptable replacement font (the real one is for sale at the princely sum of $299.00!). ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
Is there any way to criticize a any action justified with sexism without adding to the persecution complex here? Honest question. Blocking a user for comments made a week prior falls a mile out of standard process. Blocking a user who tries to explain himself without begging for mercy falls a mile out of process. It was a ridiculous power trip by the blocking admin and was over turned as such. The only concerning thing in the thread was how a bogus block was sized upon and defended as an opportunity to crusade against the boyzone [sic]. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] User blocked for sexist comment, many disagree - it wasn't sexist.
I never said that I agreed or disagreed with the block. I was merely expressing that some of the comments made in regards to the comment the blocked user made were interesting. A nice selection of people didn't see anything sexist about the comment, or the potential to find anything sexist within it. I also think it's not a healthy environment when people think a witty person is just being, well, witty and clever as always, and that it's acceptable and perhaps doesn't require any reprimanding, perhaps on any level. And I do agree with Fred, the admin was perhaps just reacting to what they saw - after some of the stories, talk page comments, and behavior of some users - of any gender - I can see how the occasional admin jumps the gun. It's very easy to do when you have good faith while trying to defend the users of an environment you care so deeply about. I have also been described as a snarky, witty, clever (among other names) person and even to this day I open my big mouth and regret what I say, on occasion. I also expect to be reprimanded when I'm out of line and while that comment might not have been extreme (as Fluffernutter pointed out), other comments have been that other users have been made on Wikipedia and related projects, and people most often walk off without being taught a lesson. I think it's fascinating. But, perhaps I'm in the minority (oh wait, I am ;-)...ok..just being witty!)... -Sarah On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM, icewe...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way to criticize a any action justified with sexism without adding to the persecution complex here? Honest question. Blocking a user for comments made a week prior falls a mile out of standard process. Blocking a user who tries to explain himself without begging for mercy falls a mile out of process. It was a ridiculous power trip by the blocking admin and was over turned as such. The only concerning thing in the thread was how a bogus block was sized upon and defended as an opportunity to crusade against the boyzone [sic]. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
