Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 02:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
> Laura, in pt case I can imagine the wp number to be right (or close enough),
> but from where did you took the wikimedia one? pt.wikimedia.org is a
> redirect to wikimedia.pt

it is a redirect but it's also a wiki with content and therefore a
database and therefore gender stats!
see back door: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pt/wiki/Wikimedia_Portugal
:)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[elisabeth bauer]

2011/12/29 Federico Leva (Nemo) :
> Johannes Rohr, 29/12/2011 12:32:
>> I suppose
>> that the software addresses you as male by default.
>
> Not necessarily (because there a male/female/undefined tripartition and
> it defaults to male only if the third option is not defined), but AFAIK
> mostly.
>
>> So males are less
>> likely to adjust their setting than females.

sounds like an easy way to get more accurate gender settings: switch
the default to female in these languages. one month male default, one
month female default and so on...

greetings,
elian

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Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[Johannes Rohr]

2011/12/29 Erik Moeller :
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Laura Hale  wrote:
>
>> What was surprising was some projects have 20%+ female participation for 
>> relatively
>> large projects including Russian and Portuguese Wikipedia.  Slovene 
>> Wikiquote only
>> has 90 women on it, but they make up 75% of the identified by gender 
>> population.
>
> Note that a key function of the gender setting (the one which
> originally motivated its creation) is to make it possible for the user
> to be addressed correctly by the software in their respective
> language. [*]

That would explain, why it is these languages in particular which show
seemingly increased female participation. In Slavic languages,
grammatical gender distinctions are particularly pervasive.  I suppose
that the software addresses you as male by default. So males are less
likely to adjust their setting than females.

Johannes


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Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Johannes Rohr, 29/12/2011 12:32:
> I suppose
> that the software addresses you as male by default.

Not necessarily (because there a male/female/undefined tripartition and 
it defaults to male only if the third option is not defined), but AFAIK 
mostly.

> So males are less
> likely to adjust their setting than females.

Sure, and probably even more than average when gender namespaces are 
implemented, because that's very visible.

Nemo

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Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Erik Moeller, 29/12/2011 03:35:
> [*] For even more technical detail: The gender setting in the user
> preferences, and taking gender into account in the localization,
> pre-dates the gender localization of the User: namespace. The User:
> namespace localization by gender was just a particularly tricky case
> of taking that setting into account and was only deployed with
> MediaWiki 1.18.

Thanks to Nikerabbit I've added a list of languages which currently use 
this feature, for the sake of clarity (it wasn't documented anywhere): 
current location 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:MediaWiki_architecture#Interface_language 
(end of the paragraph).

Nemo

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[Gendergap] A Spanish book from 1845...

[emijrp]

...with biographies about females, 3 volumes:

   - Volume 1: http://books.google.es/books?id=zhxCuOr0gREC&pg=PR3&hl=es
   - Volume 2:
   
http://books.google.es/books?id=VBZt5xlN4L0C&printsec=frontcover&hl=es&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0
   - Volume 3:
   
http://books.google.es/books?id=ETgBQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=es&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0

Perhaps it deserves an entry here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MISSING
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Re: [Gendergap] He/she vs. she/he

[Theo10011]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Dominic  wrote:

>
> This is not entirely relevant (though quite fascinating). There is no
> single definition of feminism, and its meaning is especially dependent on
> cultural mores of their time and place. You might call Boudica, Elizabeth
> I, or Abigail Adams feminists, but that doesn't mean they necessarily even
> supported most of what we'd call women's rights. I see where you are coming
> from, but I could just as easily point out that Martin Luther King referred
> to his own race as "Negro" if I wanted to defend its modern usage.
>

Actually, you omitted the relevant content from my previous quote. I stated
"The NY times article describes her as a feminist", I don't. Whichever
mores the NY times or the contributing writer subscribe to, might seem
irrelevant but it is their characterization, not mine. You are however,
free to take it up with them. :P


> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Theo10011  wrote:
>>  And I defended the reverting editor. (
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AGender-neutral_language&action=historysubmit&diff=468184170&oldid=468179760
>> ).
>>
>>  [...]
>>
>> I'm sure Dominic can correct me if I'm wrong on this one.
>>
>
> Let's step back, though. To me, the more important issue here is that a
> new, possibly female, editor made an innocuous change in good faith and was
> reverted and branded a vandal. Whatever we think about the grammatical
> debate, it was not vandalism, and he or she (or they!) are a potential new
> editor we may have scared away. Our response should not simply be to forget
> about that and start a discussion about arcane policy, as if that's the
> solution. For example, I think you may have even given the impression to
> the new editor that the revert was justified because she didn't use the
> singular "they" (your "fix"), Ryan(!). Looking at the reverter's talk page
> history, this seems to be a pattern. We'll do more to make this project a
> more welcoming place to women and everyone else by addressing such
> antisocial and unwelcoming behavior than we will by debating between "he or
> she" or "she and he" and the singular they—both of which, it should be
> mentioned, are relatively gender neutral when compared to the generic "he"
> alternative.
>

And this is something we agree on. This particular editor seems
knowledgeable of Wikipedia policies, and is able to articulate her argument
quite well. She responded to the previous comments (
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AGender-neutral_language&action=historysubmit&diff=468194043&oldid=468193586)
and seems intent on discussing this on a wider forum. She actually stopped
after the first warning, and tried to engage the original editor. I
suggested discussing this issue in MOS-related place, to which she agreed
to. I hope she follows through.

I would suggest maybe referring her to this list? She seems quiet
knowledgeable and articulate. Maybe this list might benefit from having her
perspective?

Regards
Theo
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Re: [Gendergap] What are the Poles, Slovenes, Russians and Portuguese doing right in regards to the gender gap?

[Béria Lima]

ya, but render false results, Jeremy, since we don't use it anymore  ;)
_
*Béria Lima*
Wikimedia Portugal 
(351) 963 953 042

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho. *


On 29 December 2011 10:32, Jeremy Baron  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 02:45, Béria Lima  wrote:
> > Laura, in pt case I can imagine the wp number to be right (or close
> enough),
> > but from where did you took the wikimedia one? pt.wikimedia.org is a
> > redirect to wikimedia.pt
>
> it is a redirect but it's also a wiki with content and therefore a
> database and therefore gender stats!
> see back door:
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/pt/wiki/Wikimedia_Portugal
> :)
>
> -Jeremy
>
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[Gendergap] What Gender is Wikipedia?

[Sarah Stierch]

Hi folks,

While a discussion was taking place on this list about gender neutrality 
and language, Victor (User:victorgrigas) and I were having a 
conversation about it via email. Victor decided to create a page about 
"what language is Wikipedia?"


http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_Gender_Is_Wikipedia

Hopefully you will contribute to your own and other languages.

Interesting mention about Russian Wikipedia, it states that they refer 
to Wikipedia as a female, similar to how in English we refer to ships as 
women.


Aweee...even Klingon is featured }:)   (How sentimental!)

-Sarah


--
*Sarah Stierch*
*/Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow/*
>>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate today 
<<
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