Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Daniel and Elizabeth Case]

>Hmm, it just occurred to me that Jesus was probably not notable until after 
>his death.  I wonder if anyone has ever >tried to move Jesus => Murder of 
>Jesus. 

I think the correct title would be “Execution of Jesus Christ”. 
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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Daniel and Elizabeth Case]

>It could just as easily be argued the other way, I think. It's presumptuous 
>and perhaps insulting to purport to create a >biography on a person, under her 
>own name, while merely recounting a single tragic occurrence in her life. 
>Since there >is often not enough verifiable information to create a biography, 
>it makes some sense to not assert that Wikipedia is >doing so. Moreover... 
>It's generally bad practice to apply principles of search engine optimization 
>to editing an >encyclopedia.  

+1. I would also add two other caveats:

  a.. Presenting the article as a biography of the victim would also invite 
coatracking, the insertion of embarrassing information from the victim’s past. 
It’s easier to justify removing such information when the article is about the 
event and you can limit that information to “only if it’s relevant” to the 
death or murder.
  b.. It would also invite people to reframe the article as a biography of the 
suspect/perpetrator. While serial killers get this, they’re generally the 
exception. But I am glad that, when I expanded it, I renamed what had been 
[[Stephanie Lazarus]] to [[Murder of Sherri Rasmussen]]. Despite a lengthy 
career in the LAPD, none of what Det. Lazarus did in that capacity made her 
notable in the way that being investigated by her own colleagues and then 
convicted of a 20-year-old killing will. The crime was notable, and it got the 
victim’s name.
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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victimor rallying point

[Daniel and Elizabeth Case]

>For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations over 
>Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was >beaten to death and torched by a mob. Even 
>though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find an 
>>article for her yet in Wikipedia.  When it does get written, and finally 
>starts showing up in the search engines, what will >it say? "Farkhunda", the 
>logical search term?  Or more likely, the more common format: "the 
>>murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name 
>here]".

[...]

>For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google 
>searches as well, because due to the >English Wikipedia's unique naming 
>conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
This is a Google problem, not a Wikipedia problem. And my answer, from personal 
experience, is basically what you began with: Give it time.
In late January I began researching (well, actually, reviewing research I had 
already done) and writing [[Death of Elisa Lam]], the idea being to get a hook 
from the article in DYK on February 19, the two-year anniversary of the day her 
body was found (The people at DYK were, despite the best efforts of myself and 
another editor there, unable to to do so, so a different hook ran two days 
later and did a respectable amount of page views). Even at that time, with the 
article having been in existence for almost a month, it still was on the middle 
of the second page of Google results. But now it comes up as the first result 
for “Elisa Lam.”
Some tips for gaming PageRank when you create articles like this:
  a.. Make sure there’s a redirect from the subject’s name to the “death/murder 
of ...” article.
  b.. Make sure you have a few internal links from other articles. Lists are 
good for this: every article about a notable missing-persons case can have an 
entry in, and link to, [[List of people who disappeared mysteriously]].
Daniel Case

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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Keilana]

Gynecology articles in general need some serious addressing. I plan on
taking them on - especially conditions found more commonly in poor
countries - over this summer. :)

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Ryan Kaldari 
> wrote:
>
>> Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but
>> I'm at work :)
>>
>>
> There is indeed. And also "rectovaginal fistula" - its definitely a
> cluster of articles that can use some TLC, but the coverage is there and
> fairly broad and available.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Neotarf]

Hmm, it just occurred to me that Jesus was probably not notable until after
his death.  I wonder if anyone has ever tried to move Jesus => Murder of
Jesus.

Fistulas.  Thanks for the comments about this.   I created Fatimata Touré
on Simple Wikipedia ,
and was thinking about filling in the red link for fistula.

On en.wp there is:

Rectovaginal fistula. Five short paragraphs with a nice illustration, but I
can't tell what it illustrates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectovaginal_fistula

Obstetric fistula. A huge and formidable article--much too long to go over
with a learner's dictionary, although someone has started a stub on
simple.wp. This looks important though, at least parts of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetric_fistula

Vesicovaginal fistula. No pictures, and written in very medical
terminology, but this seems related to Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesicovaginal_fistula

Of the three, I would say the first one would be the easiest to modify for
simple.wp, as far as being able to get the information across.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:10 PM, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Ryan Kaldari 
> wrote:
>
>> Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but
>> I'm at work :)
>>
>>
> There is indeed. And also "rectovaginal fistula" - its definitely a
> cluster of articles that can use some TLC, but the coverage is there and
> fairly broad and available.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Nathan]

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Ryan Kaldari 
wrote:

> Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but
> I'm at work :)
>
>
There is indeed. And also "rectovaginal fistula" - its definitely a cluster
of articles that can use some TLC, but the coverage is there and fairly
broad and available.
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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Ryan Kaldari]

Is there an article on "vaginal fistula"? I would look it up myself, but
I'm at work :)

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> It could just as easily be argued the other way, I think. It's
> presumptuous and perhaps insulting to purport to create a biography on a
> person, under her own name, while merely recounting a single tragic
> occurrence in her life. Since there is often not enough verifiable
> information to create a biography, it makes some sense to not assert that
> Wikipedia is doing so. Moreover... It's generally bad practice to apply
> principles of search engine optimization to editing an encyclopedia.
>
> And as for fistula... That article isn't great, I agree. However, vaginal
> fistulas are not the only or even the most common use of that term. Even in
> medicine, they are a subset of the broader phenomena.
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Neotarf  wrote:
>
>> Articles about women are getting lost.  Lost that is, to Google searches.
>>
>> For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations
>> over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was beaten to death and torched by a mob.
>> Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find
>> an article for her yet in Wikipedia.  When it does get written, and finally
>> starts showing up in the search engines, what will it say? "Farkhunda", the
>> logical search term?  Or more likely, the more common format: "the
>> murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name
>> here]".
>>
>>
>> For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from
>> Google searches as well, because due to the English Wikipedia's unique
>> naming conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
>>
>>
>> Maybe it's time to reconsider naming articles about women for the
>> horrible things that were done to them, and give them the simple dignity of
>> their own names.  I'm not sure the victimization narrative is the right one
>> anyhow.  The Farkhunda story seems to be about her death becoming a
>> rallying point for the way women are treated in Afghanistan, much as Aslan
>> was in Turkey.
>>
>>
>> What else?  Iraqi lawyer Samira Salih al-Nuaimi still comes up 6th in a
>> Google search, *after* the entry for the Daily Mail, because of the
>> idiosyncratic spelling of her name in the article title. But at least you
>> can find her (very, very short) article now.
>>
>>
>> And since I've already written this much, the article on fistula
>> , a problem for a huge number of
>> girls in parts of the Global South, is not very well explained.  Compare 
>> Female
>> genital mutilation or even Women's rights in 2014
>> .
>> (thx, SV).   Also reference the short article on Fatimata Touré
>> , whose group in Mali
>> works against fistula.
>>
>>
>> Note: for Farkhunda, see Twitter photos
>> https://twitter.com/hashtag/Farkhunda?src=hash and WaPo http://
>> www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/afghan-woman-beaten-to-death-for-a-crime-she-didnt-commit-becomes-a-rallying-point-for-activists/
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Nathan]

It could just as easily be argued the other way, I think. It's presumptuous
and perhaps insulting to purport to create a biography on a person, under
her own name, while merely recounting a single tragic occurrence in her
life. Since there is often not enough verifiable information to create a
biography, it makes some sense to not assert that Wikipedia is doing so.
Moreover... It's generally bad practice to apply principles of search
engine optimization to editing an encyclopedia.

And as for fistula... That article isn't great, I agree. However, vaginal
fistulas are not the only or even the most common use of that term. Even in
medicine, they are a subset of the broader phenomena.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Neotarf  wrote:

> Articles about women are getting lost.  Lost that is, to Google searches.
>
> For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations
> over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was beaten to death and torched by a mob.
> Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find
> an article for her yet in Wikipedia.  When it does get written, and finally
> starts showing up in the search engines, what will it say? "Farkhunda", the
> logical search term?  Or more likely, the more common format: "the
> murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name
> here]".
>
>
> For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google
> searches as well, because due to the English Wikipedia's unique naming
> conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".
>
>
> Maybe it's time to reconsider naming articles about women for the horrible
> things that were done to them, and give them the simple dignity of their
> own names.  I'm not sure the victimization narrative is the right one
> anyhow.  The Farkhunda story seems to be about her death becoming a
> rallying point for the way women are treated in Afghanistan, much as Aslan
> was in Turkey.
>
>
> What else?  Iraqi lawyer Samira Salih al-Nuaimi still comes up 6th in a
> Google search, *after* the entry for the Daily Mail, because of the
> idiosyncratic spelling of her name in the article title. But at least you
> can find her (very, very short) article now.
>
>
> And since I've already written this much, the article on fistula
> , a problem for a huge number of
> girls in parts of the Global South, is not very well explained.  Compare 
> Female
> genital mutilation or even Women's rights in 2014
> .
> (thx, SV).   Also reference the short article on Fatimata Touré
> , whose group in Mali
> works against fistula.
>
>
> Note: for Farkhunda, see Twitter photos
> https://twitter.com/hashtag/Farkhunda?src=hash and WaPo http://
> www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/afghan-woman-beaten-to-death-for-a-crime-she-didnt-commit-becomes-a-rallying-point-for-activists/
>
>
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> visit:
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[Gendergap] The (non-existent) Farkhunda Wikipedia article--victim or rallying point

[Neotarf]

Articles about women are getting lost.  Lost that is, to Google searches.

For the last two days, Afghanistan has been exploding in demonstrations
over Farkhunda, a Kabul woman who was beaten to death and torched by a mob.
Even though every major news source has done a piece on her, I can't find
an article for her yet in Wikipedia.  When it does get written, and finally
starts showing up in the search engines, what will it say? "Farkhunda", the
logical search term?  Or more likely, the more common format: "the
murder/lynching/battering/victimization/humiliation of [insert woman's name
here]".


For quite some time, the article for Ozgecan Aslan was hidden from Google
searches as well, because due to the English Wikipedia's unique naming
conventions, the article was called "Murder of Özgecan Aslan".


Maybe it's time to reconsider naming articles about women for the horrible
things that were done to them, and give them the simple dignity of their
own names.  I'm not sure the victimization narrative is the right one
anyhow.  The Farkhunda story seems to be about her death becoming a
rallying point for the way women are treated in Afghanistan, much as Aslan
was in Turkey.


What else?  Iraqi lawyer Samira Salih al-Nuaimi still comes up 6th in a
Google search, *after* the entry for the Daily Mail, because of the
idiosyncratic spelling of her name in the article title. But at least you
can find her (very, very short) article now.


And since I've already written this much, the article on fistula
, a problem for a huge number of
girls in parts of the Global South, is not very well explained.  Compare Female
genital mutilation or even Women's rights in 2014
.
(thx, SV).   Also reference the short article on Fatimata Touré
, whose group in Mali
works against fistula.


Note: for Farkhunda, see Twitter photos
https://twitter.com/hashtag/Farkhunda?src=hash and WaPo http://
www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/23/afghan-woman-beaten-to-death-for-a-crime-she-didnt-commit-becomes-a-rallying-point-for-activists/
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Neotarf]

*"I doubt I'd attend any event purporting to recruit women that
nevertheless limited itself to "people who were born female"; that's very
much a type of exclusion I'm uncomfortable with. In general, however,
there's nothing stopping you or anyone else from arranging a women-centric
(or even women-only) edit-a-thon, or from reaching out to women in a
certain field (via linkedin, maybe?) to urge them to get editing."*
After what I've been through, I'm not likely to urge *anyone* to edit. My
own opinion is that all Wikimedia spaces should be moving towards 50/50.
But my point is, all of these people express an interest, come in for a
day, sometimes in conjunction with a friend who is attending a similar
event in another city, make their first edit, and then ...what?  There's no
signing up for a mailing list, no newsletter, no invitations to log into a
safe space for continued collaborations, in short, nothing to show them
that Wikipedia appreciates them or considers their contributions to be
valuable. And nothing to show them the next step along the way. People are
walking in the door.  And then they walk out. Where is the infrastructure
for making that second edit?  And for staying connected with the people
they meet?

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Katherine Casey <
fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I doubt I'd attend any event purporting to recruit women that nevertheless
> limited itself to "people who were born female"; that's very much a type of
> exclusion I'm uncomfortable with. In general, however, there's nothing
> stopping you or anyone else from arranging a women-centric (or even
> women-only) edit-a-thon, or from reaching out to women in a certain field
> (via linkedin, maybe?) to urge them to get editing. Those are both cool
> ideas, and I suspect you'd get a lot of support, both from the WMF and from
> the gendergap community in general, in setting such things up. NYC would
> be, I suspect, a particularly fertile ground for gendergap-specific
> meetups; there's enough of nearly every demographic around there to fill
> some seats for a moderately-sized edit-a-thon, and the WMNYC board appears
> willing to work with minority-focused groups..
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Neotarf  wrote:
>
>> See also this article: "AfroCrowd: The Black Wikipedia For People of
>> African Descent" http://kreyolicious.com/afrocrowd/17531/
>>
>> One of the drawbacks of GLAM is that people are just making a few edits,
>> and leaving, rather than becoming long-term editors. There may be chances
>> for followup here that we are missing. Is the wiki-world ready for
>> "WomanCrowd: The Women's Wikipedia for People Who Were Born Female"?  Or
>> maybe more realistically, ways for women in a particular cluster of
>> professions to network with other women in their field, not to mention
>> professional men who are supportive enough of women to come to one of these
>> events (and who also might just happen to control access to career
>> advancement).
>>
>> I have to say, though, that I totally support the idea of a Haitian
>> Creole-language Wikipedia.  This language barrier was a huge problem a few
>> years ago, when there was an increased number of Haitians entering the U.S.
>> after the earthquake in Haiti.  The problem is the same with other
>> creoles--instruction is usually given in one of the prestige languages--in
>> this case French--rather than the individual's native or local village
>> language, which makes communication and learning extremely difficult.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Pharos 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these
>>> groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural
>>> identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic
>>> communities.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Pharos
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf"  wrote:
 > I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to
 a couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
 there was a very high proportion of African descent.

 I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all
 of the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential
 recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.

 I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be
 *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a
 connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach
 but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they
 started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.

 https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab

 -Jeremy

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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Katherine Casey]

I doubt I'd attend any event purporting to recruit women that nevertheless
limited itself to "people who were born female"; that's very much a type of
exclusion I'm uncomfortable with. In general, however, there's nothing
stopping you or anyone else from arranging a women-centric (or even
women-only) edit-a-thon, or from reaching out to women in a certain field
(via linkedin, maybe?) to urge them to get editing. Those are both cool
ideas, and I suspect you'd get a lot of support, both from the WMF and from
the gendergap community in general, in setting such things up. NYC would
be, I suspect, a particularly fertile ground for gendergap-specific
meetups; there's enough of nearly every demographic around there to fill
some seats for a moderately-sized edit-a-thon, and the WMNYC board appears
willing to work with minority-focused groups..

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Neotarf  wrote:

> See also this article: "AfroCrowd: The Black Wikipedia For People of
> African Descent" http://kreyolicious.com/afrocrowd/17531/
>
> One of the drawbacks of GLAM is that people are just making a few edits,
> and leaving, rather than becoming long-term editors. There may be chances
> for followup here that we are missing. Is the wiki-world ready for
> "WomanCrowd: The Women's Wikipedia for People Who Were Born Female"?  Or
> maybe more realistically, ways for women in a particular cluster of
> professions to network with other women in their field, not to mention
> professional men who are supportive enough of women to come to one of these
> events (and who also might just happen to control access to career
> advancement).
>
> I have to say, though, that I totally support the idea of a Haitian
> Creole-language Wikipedia.  This language barrier was a huge problem a few
> years ago, when there was an increased number of Haitians entering the U.S.
> after the earthquake in Haiti.  The problem is the same with other
> creoles--instruction is usually given in one of the prestige languages--in
> this case French--rather than the individual's native or local village
> language, which makes communication and learning extremely difficult.
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Pharos 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these
>> groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural
>> identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic
>> communities.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Pharos
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf"  wrote:
>>> > I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
>>> couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
>>> there was a very high proportion of African descent.
>>>
>>> I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of
>>> the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential
>>> recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be
>>> *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a
>>> connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach
>>> but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they
>>> started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
>>>
>>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
>>>
>>> -Jeremy
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
>>> visit:
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>
>>
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>> visit:
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Neotarf]

See also this article: "AfroCrowd: The Black Wikipedia For People of
African Descent" http://kreyolicious.com/afrocrowd/17531/

One of the drawbacks of GLAM is that people are just making a few edits,
and leaving, rather than becoming long-term editors. There may be chances
for followup here that we are missing. Is the wiki-world ready for
"WomanCrowd: The Women's Wikipedia for People Who Were Born Female"?  Or
maybe more realistically, ways for women in a particular cluster of
professions to network with other women in their field, not to mention
professional men who are supportive enough of women to come to one of these
events (and who also might just happen to control access to career
advancement).

I have to say, though, that I totally support the idea of a Haitian
Creole-language Wikipedia.  This language barrier was a huge problem a few
years ago, when there was an increased number of Haitians entering the U.S.
after the earthquake in Haiti.  The problem is the same with other
creoles--instruction is usually given in one of the prestige languages--in
this case French--rather than the individual's native or local village
language, which makes communication and learning extremely difficult.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Pharos 
wrote:

> Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these
> groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural
> identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic
> communities.
>
> Thanks,
> Pharos
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf"  wrote:
>> > I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
>> couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
>> there was a very high proportion of African descent.
>>
>> I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of
>> the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential
>> recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be
>> *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a
>> connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach
>> but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they
>> started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
>>
>> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
>>
>> -Jeremy
>>
>> ___
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>> visit:
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Daniel and Elizabeth Case]

>Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these groups 
>explicitly, and in particular to representing >different cultural identities 
>in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic communities.
   
Stereolithic?
Wiktionary gives “modular” as an antonym for “monlithic”, but only for the 
computing sense.
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Pharos]

Yes, the idea is to be extra inclusionary by reaching out to all these
groups explicitly, and in particular to representing different cultural
identities in rather non-monolithic African American / African Diasporic
communities.

Thanks,
Pharos

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Jeremy Baron 
wrote:

> On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf"  wrote:
> > I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
> couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
> there was a very high proportion of African descent.
>
> I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of
> the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential
> recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.
>
> I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be
> *focused* on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a
> connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach
> but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they
> started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.
>
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab
>
> -Jeremy
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Fæ]

From a UK perspective, I have been to and helped to run a couple of
women-based editathons, they were mainly attended by women but were
never intended to be exclusive. There have also been a couple of black
history editathons in London, again they were not exclusive to any
particular group. I ran the first LGBT editathon in the UK, again it
was open to everyone and all attendees were happy with the idea of it
being run under the safe space policy.

As far as I know, there has never been an exclusive editathon but
themed events are a good idea and will attract those most interested
in the subject. There have, however, been exclusive or invitation-only
workshops. I would like to see exclusivity of any kind kept to a
minimum when Wikimedia funding is being used. If an organization is
funding their own event, such as an in-house editathon, then clearly
it's up to them.

When I recently raised my concern about an invitation only Wikimedia
funded event with no published criteria for selection nor even a clear
explanation of who was doing the selection, I was conveniently called
a bully, so any future worry I have along these lines will be quietly
handled as a complaint to the FDC, or whoever is most directly
spending donors money in ways that may be seen as partisan or based on
personal networks.

Fae

On 23 March 2015 at 15:25, Neotarf  wrote:
> That's interesting:
>
> "The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited to
> individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino,
> Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West
> Indian."
>
> I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
> couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
> there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's
> editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as
> you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.

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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 23, 2015 11:41 AM, "Katherine Casey" 
wrote:
> I recognize at least some of the names on the attendance list there as
people who don't, to the best of my knowledge, identify as being of African
descent, so it doesn't appear to have been an event that excluded anyone.

I think that wording was referring to future events not yesterday's event.

See also http://www.afrocrowd.org/

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Carol Moore dc]

If someone started "WomenCROWD" it would be interesting to see if the 
other "Crowd" meetups would support it. (AfroCROWD, HaitiCROWD, 
AfroLatinoCROWD, AfricaCROWD) Not that I think it's necessary, but it 
would be interesting to see the reaction. And I am curious as to what 
pushback they might have gotten and how they handled it.  But being 
banned from the site, I'm reluctant to use the email function to ask 
involved individuals. Maybe I'll just ask politely via twitter? Others 
can too, if you are curious...


On 3/23/2015 11:25 AM, Neotarf wrote:

That's interesting:

"The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not 
limited to individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, 
Afro-Latino, Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, 
Haitian or West Indian."


I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a 
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of 
course there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, 
the women's editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to 
men, although as you would expect, there is a very high attendance 
level for women.




On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Carol Moore dc 
mailto:carolmoor...@verizon.net>> wrote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015

Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for
the project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015,
hosted at Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported
by Wikimedia New York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC
partners.

There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women
oriented but I do see involvement by a new  NYC meetup group:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd";

Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to
increase the number of people of African Descent who actively
partake in the Wikimedia and free knowledge, culture and software
movements."  I guess meetups targeted on certain groups are less
controversial than task forces.



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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 23, 2015 11:25 AM, "Neotarf"  wrote:
> I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
there was a very high proportion of African descent.

I think the point was actually to be extra inclusionary: to cover all of
the above not just a subset when recruiting new editors. So potential
recruits don't think but I'm not really {{label}} and exclude themselves.

I'm pretty sure others won't be excluded but these events will be *focused*
on topics related to those groups and editors with some sort of a
connection to Africa. To address biases similarly to women focused outreach
but with a twist thrown in: adding a new language to Wikipedia too, they
started already Garifuna Wikipedia on incubator.

https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/cab

-Jeremy
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Katherine Casey]

I recognize at least some of the names on the attendance list there as
people who don't, to the best of my knowledge, identify as being of African
descent, so it doesn't appear to have been an event that excluded anyone.
My guess would be that the "open to" bit is intended to bring in people who
might otherwise feel they're not welcome if they're not specifically
invited, more than it's intended to dis-invite people who already know
they're always welcome at Wikimedia events. The phrasing might be a bit
awkward, but most ways I can think of to express "...and seriously, we
would very much like those of African descent to fully participate at and
feel comfortable in this workshop" suffer from one tonal weakness or
another. At the end of the day, I can't say I resent specifically inviting
racial minorities to events any more than I would resent specifically
inviting women to events; given our demographics, it's probably better to
err on the side of not making minorities feel marginalized or like they're
being treated like tokens, than it is to err on the side of making sure
white males don't feel like there might be a space where they're not the
center of things.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Neotarf  wrote:

> That's interesting:
>
> "The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited
> to individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino,
> Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West
> Indian."
>
> I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
> couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
> there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's
> editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as
> you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Carol Moore dc  > wrote:
>
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015
>>
>> Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for the
>> project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015, hosted at
>> Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported by Wikimedia New
>> York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC partners.
>>
>> There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women oriented
>> but I do see involvement by a new  NYC meetup group:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd";
>>
>> Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to
>> increase the number of people of African Descent who actively partake in
>> the Wikimedia and free knowledge, culture and software movements."  I guess
>> meetups targeted on certain groups are less controversial than task forces.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 mini-conferenceh for te project's 14th birthday

[Neotarf]

That's interesting:

"The workshops are open to all Afrodescendants including but not limited to
individuals who self-identify as African, African-American, Afro-Latino,
Biracial, Black, Black-American, Caribbean, Garifuna, Haitian or West
Indian."

I've never seen editithons that exclude people before.  I've been to a
couple of black history events, and all were welcomed, although of course
there was a very high proportion of African descent. Likewise, the women's
editing events I have attended have been very welcoming to men, although as
you would expect, there is a very high attendance level for women.



On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Carol Moore dc 
wrote:

>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Wikipedia_Day_2015
>
> Wikipedia Day NYC 2015 is a celebration and mini-conference for the
> project's 14th birthday,* to be held on Sunday March 22, 2015, hosted at
> Barnard College starting at 10:00 am, and also supported by Wikimedia New
> York City and fellow Free Culture Alliance NYC partners.
>
> There are various events, sessions, talks, etc. Nothing women oriented but
> I do see involvement by a new  NYC meetup group:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/AfroCrowd";
>
> Talk page hasn't even been opened yet to comment on its goal: "to increase the
> number of people of African Descent who actively partake in the Wikimedia
> and free knowledge, culture and software movements."  I guess meetups
> targeted on certain groups are less controversial than task forces.
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Progress of Inspire Grants – Gender gap campaign

[Sydney Poore]

Not sure, but that page might be picking up all of the ideas in the IdeaLab
not just the one for the Inspire campaign. The below link is to the ones
created specifically for the Inspire campaign.

*https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire#idealab-ideas
*

This is the leaderboard for the ideas that people have taken an interest in
and endorsed.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire/Leaderboard

We need people who are interested in mentoring people to take their ideas
to proposals. So anyone who has experience making grant requests to WMF
through IEG, PEG, or FDC is invited to give advice about how to write a
proposal that can be measured to show impact.

Or if you see an idea that you like, look to see if you have a skill or
experience that the idea proposer needs and join the idea. Also, thoughtful
comments that identify strengths and weakness of an idea are always
welcome.

See you all in the IdeaLab :-)

Sydney

Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wikipedian in Residence
at Cochrane Collaboration

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Jodi Schneider 
wrote:

> The list of drafts appears to be here, Fae:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Ideas#idealab-drafts
>
> These are on all topics...
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Fæ  wrote:
>
>> Would someone like to summarize how the campaign is doing now it is
>> (presumably) half way through?
>>
>> From the IdeaLab page[1] there is a week left before the proposals
>> part of the campaign closes on the 1st April, with the expectation
>> that 100 ideas will be created. This deadline might be the wrong one
>> though, as the notice on the main PEG page[2] says the campaign is
>> open "February 1 - April 30".
>>
>> I admit to being confused by the structure on meta. After following
>> the links for the Inspire campaign, I cannot find a list of gender gap
>> related proposals open for community feedback and support. Perhaps
>> someone could point me in the right direction, or create a listing
>> page if it does not exist?
>>
>> Links
>> 1.
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign#Measures_of_success
>> 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:PEG&oldid=11234142
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>> --
>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Progress of Inspire Grants – Gender gap campaign

[Jodi Schneider]

The list of drafts appears to be here, Fae:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Ideas#idealab-drafts

These are on all topics...

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Fæ  wrote:

> Would someone like to summarize how the campaign is doing now it is
> (presumably) half way through?
>
> From the IdeaLab page[1] there is a week left before the proposals
> part of the campaign closes on the 1st April, with the expectation
> that 100 ideas will be created. This deadline might be the wrong one
> though, as the notice on the main PEG page[2] says the campaign is
> open "February 1 - April 30".
>
> I admit to being confused by the structure on meta. After following
> the links for the Inspire campaign, I cannot find a list of gender gap
> related proposals open for community feedback and support. Perhaps
> someone could point me in the right direction, or create a listing
> page if it does not exist?
>
> Links
> 1.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign#Measures_of_success
> 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:PEG&oldid=11234142
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Closing the gendergap in biographies on Wikipedia

[Jane Darnell]

Max,
Hmm, interesting proposal! I am not sure whether it can be very useful as
it reads now. I have thought a lot about this and have looked at the
concept "painter" pretty carefully. Yes there is a gendergap in the data as
it is generated on a daily basis, but no, I am not convinced this is
related to the Wikipedia gendergap in the sense of "you need women to write
biographies of women".  In fact, some of the most thoughtful biographies of
women are written by men and you could maybe say that our biographies of
men may improve if we get more women on board editing. There is however, a
tipping point when it comes to writing about women on Wikipedia. In my work
on female stub creation I have seen lots of examples where the stub existed
and was deleted due to notability concerns. Lots of experienced editors
(myself included) will only bother to write an article, even if it's just a
stub, when the likelihood of having the article stick is judged to be at
some mysterious level. I think we need some policy guidelines and some
stats about how many articles about women were previously deleted. This may
help us determine what the "academic bias barrier" is in accumulating
female biographies in general.

When I think of what I would like in terms of "Wikipedia Gender Index
Tools", I would like to see, per country of birth or per occupation or per
external database, how the percentage of female vs male is across language
Wikipedias. Already I am finding that the Swedish Wikipedia has the highest
percentage of female vs male across the board in any arts field, followed
by the Russian Wikipedia. The English Wikipedia is somewhere in the middle
and the Italians are the biggest loser (but maybe also with the longest
history of art historical terms that are documented, which could lead to a
higher percentage of men across the arts born before 1800, but perhaps
higher after 1850 - who knows?).

Once you start drilling down into the data you find all sorts of really
weird conundrums!
Jane

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Maximilian Klein  wrote:

> Hi Jane, great investigation.
>
> I like this idea of looking at the gender gap by-profession, and seeing if
> it is closing at any rate by sampling it over time. In fact, I put in a
> project for the "inspire campaign" to automate recording these statistics
> over time for all professions. It'd be great to have your endorsement, and
> if the project is funded we can compare how painters fair against other
> professions.
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/WIGI:_Wikipedia_Gender_Index_Tools#Endorsements
>
> Make a great day,
> Max Klein ‽ http://notconfusing.com/
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:51 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone, I have been checking how we are doing on closing the
>> gendergap on biographies of women artists for a while. Part of the problem
>> is collecting the data, and Wikidata is a great help. Unfortunately there
>> are still lots of women artists with Wikidata items without any statements
>> at all, but since this is also true for male artists, looking at the stats
>> is useful. What I did was to collect data for all female artists and all
>> male artist and came up with percentages for painters versus various
>> matched data bases in Mix-n-Match.
>>
>> Thanks to our push on Art & Feminism, the score is better (12.5%) on
>> Wikimedia projects than for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography
>> (10.1%). The ODNB is currently the only database that is completely
>> matched. The other databases are still being matched, but still, it's
>> interesting to see how we currently stand with those. Here are the scores:
>>
>> Wikidata painters - 12.5%: 45016 male, 6430 female
>> RKD - 11.4%: 21809 male, 2795 female
>> United List of Artist Names - 8.6%: 32993 male, 3091 female
>> BBC Your Paintings - 7.7%: 6535 male, 545 female
>> Oxford Dictionary of National Biography - 10.1%: 49419 male, 5581 female
>>
>> http://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/
>>
>> These stats were gathered this morning using Autolist:
>> http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Closing the gendergap in biographies on Wikipedia

[Maximilian Klein]

Hi Jane, great investigation.

I like this idea of looking at the gender gap by-profession, and seeing if
it is closing at any rate by sampling it over time. In fact, I put in a
project for the "inspire campaign" to automate recording these statistics
over time for all professions. It'd be great to have your endorsement, and
if the project is funded we can compare how painters fair against other
professions.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/WIGI:_Wikipedia_Gender_Index_Tools#Endorsements

Make a great day,
Max Klein ‽ http://notconfusing.com/

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:51 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Hi everyone, I have been checking how we are doing on closing the
> gendergap on biographies of women artists for a while. Part of the problem
> is collecting the data, and Wikidata is a great help. Unfortunately there
> are still lots of women artists with Wikidata items without any statements
> at all, but since this is also true for male artists, looking at the stats
> is useful. What I did was to collect data for all female artists and all
> male artist and came up with percentages for painters versus various
> matched data bases in Mix-n-Match.
>
> Thanks to our push on Art & Feminism, the score is better (12.5%) on
> Wikimedia projects than for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography
> (10.1%). The ODNB is currently the only database that is completely
> matched. The other databases are still being matched, but still, it's
> interesting to see how we currently stand with those. Here are the scores:
>
> Wikidata painters - 12.5%: 45016 male, 6430 female
> RKD - 11.4%: 21809 male, 2795 female
> United List of Artist Names - 8.6%: 32993 male, 3091 female
> BBC Your Paintings - 7.7%: 6535 male, 545 female
> Oxford Dictionary of National Biography - 10.1%: 49419 male, 5581 female
>
> http://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/
>
> These stats were gathered this morning using Autolist:
> http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html
>
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> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
> visit:
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Re: [Gendergap] Progress of Inspire Grants – Gender gap campaign

[Fæ]

Great thanks, for some reason the site really turned me around, I just
could not see how to find the main ideas page from what I thought was
the campaign page.

I see there are over 200 ideas, which is great, well over target
considering the proposal period has another week to go. A browse
through shows many ideas I would be happy to support, along with
others that would be more controversial. :-)

Fae

On 23 March 2015 at 12:14, Sydney Poore  wrote:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire
>
> Main page for campaign.
>
> Sydney
>
> On Mar 23, 2015 8:07 AM, "Fæ"  wrote:
>>
>> Would someone like to summarize how the campaign is doing now it is
>> (presumably) half way through?
>>
>> From the IdeaLab page[1] there is a week left before the proposals
>> part of the campaign closes on the 1st April, with the expectation
>> that 100 ideas will be created. This deadline might be the wrong one
>> though, as the notice on the main PEG page[2] says the campaign is
>> open "February 1 - April 30".
>>
>> I admit to being confused by the structure on meta. After following
>> the links for the Inspire campaign, I cannot find a list of gender gap
>> related proposals open for community feedback and support. Perhaps
>> someone could point me in the right direction, or create a listing
>> page if it does not exist?
>>
>> Links
>> 1.
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign#Measures_of_success
>> 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:PEG&oldid=11234142
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>> --
>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>
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>> visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Progress of Inspire Grants – Gender gap campaign

[Sydney Poore]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire

Main page for campaign.

Sydney
On Mar 23, 2015 8:07 AM, "Fæ"  wrote:

> Would someone like to summarize how the campaign is doing now it is
> (presumably) half way through?
>
> From the IdeaLab page[1] there is a week left before the proposals
> part of the campaign closes on the 1st April, with the expectation
> that 100 ideas will be created. This deadline might be the wrong one
> though, as the notice on the main PEG page[2] says the campaign is
> open "February 1 - April 30".
>
> I admit to being confused by the structure on meta. After following
> the links for the Inspire campaign, I cannot find a list of gender gap
> related proposals open for community feedback and support. Perhaps
> someone could point me in the right direction, or create a listing
> page if it does not exist?
>
> Links
> 1.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign#Measures_of_success
> 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:PEG&oldid=11234142
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
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> visit:
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[Gendergap] Progress of Inspire Grants – Gender gap campaign

[Fæ]

Would someone like to summarize how the campaign is doing now it is
(presumably) half way through?

From the IdeaLab page[1] there is a week left before the proposals
part of the campaign closes on the 1st April, with the expectation
that 100 ideas will be created. This deadline might be the wrong one
though, as the notice on the main PEG page[2] says the campaign is
open "February 1 - April 30".

I admit to being confused by the structure on meta. After following
the links for the Inspire campaign, I cannot find a list of gender gap
related proposals open for community feedback and support. Perhaps
someone could point me in the right direction, or create a listing
page if it does not exist?

Links
1. 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign#Measures_of_success
2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:PEG&oldid=11234142

Thanks,
Fae
-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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[Gendergap] Closing the gendergap in biographies on Wikipedia

[Jane Darnell]

Hi everyone, I have been checking how we are doing on closing the gendergap
on biographies of women artists for a while. Part of the problem is
collecting the data, and Wikidata is a great help. Unfortunately there are
still lots of women artists with Wikidata items without any statements at
all, but since this is also true for male artists, looking at the stats is
useful. What I did was to collect data for all female artists and all male
artist and came up with percentages for painters versus various matched
data bases in Mix-n-Match.

Thanks to our push on Art & Feminism, the score is better (12.5%) on
Wikimedia projects than for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography
(10.1%). The ODNB is currently the only database that is completely
matched. The other databases are still being matched, but still, it's
interesting to see how we currently stand with those. Here are the scores:

Wikidata painters - 12.5%: 45016 male, 6430 female
RKD - 11.4%: 21809 male, 2795 female
United List of Artist Names - 8.6%: 32993 male, 3091 female
BBC Your Paintings - 7.7%: 6535 male, 545 female
Oxford Dictionary of National Biography - 10.1%: 49419 male, 5581 female

http://tools.wmflabs.org/mix-n-match/

These stats were gathered this morning using Autolist:
http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html
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