Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
On May 18, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Sarah wrote: > I did say something in the end, and an uninvolved admin left a note on talk > asking that the remarks cease. And though he meant well, and I was and remain > grateful to him for stepping in, he asked that they cease as a matter of > courtesy to me. But I didn't want them to stop as a matter of courtesy. I > wanted people to recognize that they were politically unacceptable. > > Then I had to explain why the remarks were offensive, when what I really > wanted was for them to end, and the meta-discussion to end. Eventually it did > die down and a couple of other editors stepped in, and one of the earlier > ones apologized, so it was okay. > > But I would love to find a way to nip this kind of thing in the bud. I've > thought of trying to write an essay or a guideline -- but then people will > cry censorship, and will want to know what kind of comments are suddenly not > permitted, and who is to judge whether they're offensive, and will argue that > not all women agree on definitions of sexism anyway. So it felt like too much > of an uphill struggle even to begin it. This is the struggle of social justice issues on a wider scale, in many ways-- how can we address the -isms of the world in a way that enables processing and change to happen, versus pushing them further underground? In some ways, seeing terrible behavior is the unfortunate and painful reminder that there is work to be done... it's a balancing act that few have been able to pull off in the last couple decades, I feel. In any case, Sarah, I'm with you on this. You explain the challenges and frustrations well, in a way that I think represents how many previously-marginalized voices feel coming into these spaces. dz ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [Commons-l] Fwd: Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
I'd also be interested in contributing-- the BLP experience of last week was incredibly enlightening, and got me thinking about access... having the right key unlocked a wealth of knowledge and aid. How to make that key more widely available, or second nature/common knowledge? I'm hoping to blog about it soon. In any case, I'd like to come at some of the HOW-TO issues in general from that noob perspective. cheers dz On May 16, 2011, at 9:23 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Sarah Stierch > wrote: > On 5/16/2011 11:49 AM, Pete Forsyth wrote: >> Anybody interested in tackling this issue? >> -Pete > I'm working on diving into the HOW-TO this summer for Wiki. I do want to see > all of these topics covered - and I'll contribute in anyway I can. Where do > we start? ;-) > > Hi Sarah, > > I'd be really happy to work on this with you! (And anyone else). > > My sense is that there's a lot of work to do in identifying the problem -- or > rather, evaluating the collection of interrelated issues, and determining > where it's best to focus. The things that seem significant to me are: > > (1) Picture of the Day on Commons often seems to be the source of unnecessary > strife (moreso than, say, PotD on English Wikipedia); > (2) It appears that there is not a clearly identified set of editorial values > around what DOES constitute a worthwhile PotD on Commons; > (3) The technical and social processes for setting a PotD are difficult to > understand and poorly documented. > > How about if we collaborate a bit on documenting how things currently work? I > think that process will point the way toward recommending a solution. > > I've set up a page for this project, if you're game! > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Peteforsyth/PotD > > -Pete > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic)
Just heard from Jessica-- she is thrilled with the new contributions to the page, and really appreciates your help and support. Me too! I'm learning so much from this. I'll let her know about the BLP ban for that user. Thanks again. cheers dz On May 12, 2011, at 2:42 PM, Sarah wrote: > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 09:11, Fred Bauder wrote: >> I'm already having trouble with the editor spoken of... >> > He's already under a three-month BLP topic ban because of problems > elsewhere, so unless he successfully appealed it, he shouldn't be > editing the article anyway. I've left a note for him. > > Sarah > > ___ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic)
Everyone, thank you SO much for all the wonderful & supportive advice. I've forwarded it on to my colleague, and she's *extremely* appreciative. We had no idea there were so many resources available for these situations. I didn't identify her at first because I wasn't sure how comfortable she was being a test case on a public listserv, but I did get permission from her this morning, since a couple of folks asked. Here's her page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Valenti There's nothing egregious going on right now (tho lord knows we'd all love for the Althouse incident to be rounded out by other stuff, since it was what many consider an "insider baseball" moment); I'm also taking this opportunity to show her some of the do's and don'ts that I'm familiar with. We're also keeping an eye on a user that's been editing her page for years, adding random, unrelated negative attack pieces (which have since been edited out over time). Random technical question on sources: there are calls for citations on the page to which there aren't really the technical "reliable sources." (i.e., her high school-- does that belong there at all? And the birth of her daughter, plus its complications.) Thanks again for all your help. Really glad to be a part of this list/community. cheers dz On May 11, 2011, at 11:21 PM, Fred Bauder wrote: >> Hi Deanna, >> There is some basic advice for people wishing to edit (or complain about) >> their ownbiographies here: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notable_person_survival_kit >> Otherwise, drop me or some of the established women editors on this list >> a private note identifying the article, along with some sources that >> could be used to balance the article. >> Andreas > > Yes, I keep forgetting this is a publicly accessible list. Please drop me > a note if you want me to work on the problem, or use Wikipedia mail to > User:Oversight if the problem needs immediate attention. > > Fred > > >> --- On Wed, 11/5/11, Deanna Zandt wrote: >> >> From: Deanna Zandt >> Subject: [Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic) >> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects" >> >> Date: Wednesday, 11 May, 2011, 17:58 >> >> >> Hey all, >> Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I >> learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get >> some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm >> asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer... >> I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a >> Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple >> troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she >> was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an >> idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add >> inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* >> well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that >> in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so >> prominently in her profile. >> I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community >> who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, >> so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her >> community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... >> there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. >> She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid >> edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the >> community. >> So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own >> page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, >> and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she >> understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but >> having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... >> ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I >> just hate to see her being recorded in history this way. >> Any advice is greatly appreciated. >> >> >> dz >> >> -=-=-=-=-Deanna Zandtdeanna@deannazandt.comSite: >> http://www.deannazandt.com/Twitter: >> http://twitter.com/randomdeannaFacebook: Public: >> http://facebook.com/deannazandtFacebook: Personal: >> http://face
[Gendergap] Advice for BLP situation (possibly off-topic)
Hey all, Apologies if this isn't the appropriate list/discussion to post to; I learned a lot by following the last BLP discussion, so I'm hoping to get some advice here. It's a question that as a technology consultant I'm asked a lot, and I don't have the greatest answer... I have a friend & colleague, a popular young NYC feminist, who's got a Wikipedia page. She's often been the subject of multiple troll/flame/stalking/etc wars, online and off, for many years now-- she was a favorite target of Anon and 4chan/b/ at one time, to give you an idea. Her page is rather sparse, but often people swing by and add inflammatory and other negative material to it. Since she's not *that* well known, her page isn't watched/edited by enough people to keep that in check, and she's often left frustrated that this material figures so prominently in her profile. I told her the best thing for her to do is find people in her community who can add more biographical information and really flesh out her page, so that anything negative has at least more balance to it. Since her community is mostly women, we butt up against the gendergap issue... there just aren't that many women (esp feminists) who are into this work. She's asked on multiple occasions if I or other consultants can be paid edit the page for her, but I advised that this not kosher in the community. So, she's feeling extremely stuck. She's not supposed to edit her own page, she doesn't have a strong enough community to maintain her page, and she can't pay anyone to do it. What to do? I understand, and she understands, that negativity is just part of the Wikipedia world; but having it be so prominent, and most of it being inflammatory, is just... ugh. So much of her work has been extremely positive and productive, I just hate to see her being recorded in history this way. Any advice is greatly appreciated. dz -=-=-=-=- Deanna Zandt dea...@deannazandt.com Site: http://www.deannazandt.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeanna Facebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandt Facebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010 http://www.sharethischange.com/ "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
[Gendergap] Gender binary issues?
Hi all, me again-- Forgive me if this has been discussed already, and if it has, to point me to the correct place in the archives. It was something that came up in response to the webinar in a multitude of ways, and that was basically: how do we address current male dominance of Wikipedia while being welcoming of folks who don't fall on the gender-binary lines? I ask for a couple reasons: one, we addressed this with the webinar by asking people who identify as men to voluntarily waitlist themselves, to ensure that those who don't identify as men find a spot, since that's who the webinar we created was intended for. Then, a couple of folks who identified as genderqueer or trans asked me afterwards if there were places like Wikichix (is this an active group, btw?) and gendergap for them to discuss and support one another. I don't have an answer to that question, but I would assume anyone who is addressing the pervasive male percentages would at least be welcome here, regardless of how they identify. Last, I'm wondering if this group is interested in including that kind of language in the manifesto? It can feel like we are complicating things, for sure, but I would certainly support it (as a *brand new* member, heh). cheers dz -=-=-=-=- Deanna Zandt dea...@deannazandt.com Site: http://www.deannazandt.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeanna Facebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandt Facebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010 http://www.sharethischange.com/ "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Webinar on editing for Wikipedia Women
Christine, thank you so much for the kind words! I joined GenderGap right before the webinar when I was looking for resources, but am only getting around to looking at archives and new messages today. Folks seemed really excited after the webinar, from the messages I got, and the messages WAM! got. Katha Pollitt, a well-known US poet and political writer, was especially jazzed, and that made me pretty happy. There were about 25 women on Wed, and we expect another 25 on Sunday. As Christine mentioned, we're also going to arrange a day for women work together on editing Wikipedia. There's definitely comfort in numbers. And I *love* the idea of having mentors! We would welcome any and all volunteers to help out that way. We'll definitely be posting the video of the webinar online-- ReadyTalk gave it to me as a native Flash file, so I can't upload it to Vimeo, etc., but I believe we'll be hosting it on Women Action & The Media's site. I'll post it to this list after Sunday, depending on which version comes out better. cheers dz PS-- By way of intros: I'm a media technologist and author based in Brooklyn, NY. I work with progressive media and advocacy organizations to help them figure just what the heck they should be doing online. I'm also the WAM!Bassador of Technology for Women, Action & the Media, which is fun to say. More info in my sig. -=-=-=-=- Deanna Zandt dea...@deannazandt.com Site: http://www.deannazandt.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/randomdeanna Facebook: Public: http://facebook.com/deannazandt Facebook: Personal: http://facebook.com/deannaz Author: Share This! How You Will Change the World with Social Networking, Berrett-Koehler, June 2010 http://www.sharethischange.com/ "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." -- Oscar Wilde On Mar 24, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Christine Moellenberndt wrote: > I hoped to write this yesterday, just didn't get there. I attended this > webinar, and I have to say I thought it was very well done. Deanna spent the > first half of the session talking about some of the culture of Wikipedia; > things like neutral point of view, collaboration, the dangers of edit > warring, and the like. She also touched on the various roles you can fill on > Wikipedia, not just article creation but "wikignome"-ing, copyediting, > mediating, fomatting, etc. out of the Welcome to Wikipedia booklet available > on the Bookshelf (http://outreach.wikimedia.org/Bookshelf). She did caution > us, though, about spending all of our efforts in wikignoming and copyediting, > "We don't want to be the secretaries of Wikipedia!" > > (that being said, my Not-WMF-opinion is that copyediting and the like are > GREAT ways to get one's feet wet on Wikipedia. It allows you to learn how > Wiki-markup works, start learning how articles are formulated, and can help > introduce all the concepts that make a good article that can prepare you for > writing your own first article.) > > The second half was a real how-to, showing how to create an account and then > taking us into her sandbox on the English Wikipedia and showing how to use > the text editor there on basic things like italic and bold text, creating > links (both links to other WP articles, and to outside sites), and > references. There were lots of spots for questions along the way, and I got > to help Deanna out a bit with questions. > > I can't give a good estimate on how many attendees there were; the platform > they used didn't give a full participants list, but I'd wager it was around > the 20-25 person range which seemed about right. Deanna hopes that once > everyone who attends the seminars gets a chance to create an account and play > around a bit that all the participants can get together and start working > together on women related Wikipedia articles. I think that would be a really > great activity and a great way to get more women involved in Wikipedia. > > I'd say if you're looking to do something similar, Deanna's webinar would be > a good template to follow, especially the idea of a reconvening at a later > date to begin working together on an article that needs some extra help. > Again, my Not-Official-Opinion is that having a mentor would be a big help to > learning one's way around the projects, and what better way than to do it > with a bunch of like-minded folks? > > The session was recorded, and once I find out where it is being housed, I'll > let everyone know so you can see how it worked out. > > Thank you, Frances for telling us about the webinar, and thanks to Deanna > and the folks at WAM! for putting it on! > > (fyi, there's another one on Sunday; I'm not s
