Re: [Gendergap] Wiktionary *desperately* needs more gender-aware editors

[Heather Walls]

Inline replies to 3 people...

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 1:57 PM, J Hayes  wrote:

> the smaller wikis have ownership issues , the arguments are so vehement
> because the stakes are so small.
>
> i would advise trying out lots of other wikis like commons or wikisource
> or wikidata. friendlier at source, and lots more metadata cleanup to do at
> commons / wikidata.
>

Hello J. When someone comes to an issue-specific list to discuss that
issue, why would you recommend that they just edit somewhere else and not
speak to their question? Isn't it the point of this list to discuss
gendergap issues?



> On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 3:13 AM, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>> At the risk of being labelled biased, I do not see that that was a
>> legitimate fix to address systemic bias. It looked rather pointy to me.
>> Perhaps you could explain just how it addressed systemic bias in a useful
>> way.
>>
>> Cheers, Peter
>>
>
Peter, what I see in that first edit was the removal of a sentence that
spoke about the appearance of a woman for no reason at all. There is more
information here http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Beauty_duty



>  *From:* Gendergap [mailto:gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jessy D. King
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 April 2017 7:27 PM
>> *To:* Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> *Subject:* [Gendergap] Wiktionary *desperately* needs more gender-aware
>> editors
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm new to this list, this is my first post.
>>
>>
>>
>> If Wikipedia is a boy's club, Wiktionary is an uber boy's club. It *so*
>> desperately needs people interested in addressing systemic bias.
>>
>>
>>
>> Every time I try to make completely legitimate fixes to address systemic
>> bias of the male privilege variety (for example,
>>
>> https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=so=revision
>> =42598962=42598906 )
>>
>> it is reverted very quickly (in the just-referenced case, within 10
>> minutes). Then a fight must ensue in which I'm accused of being things like
>> "dishonest", "disrespectful" and 'railing'. The person in this case has
>> demonstrated his double standards in his edit summary and in his comments
>> to me on his talk page, and that is absolutely (unfortunately) the norm
>> amongst long-term Wiktionary editors.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is incredibly demoralising. My contributions to Wiktionary include
>> adding etymologies, adding quotations, all with absolutely no gender issues
>> involved, yet none of that work is ever recognised in any way, and I'm
>> treated like a resented interloper. The majority of long-term Wiktionary
>> editors seem to bitterly resent the very suggestion of addressing systemic
>> bias. It is a really, really nasty little uber boy's club in there. Which I
>> realise may not encourage anyone to join, I'm just being honest.
>>
>
Hello Jessy, I appreciate your efforts to remove gender issues from
Wiktionary. I am disappointed that you found a similar reaction in this
list.

Warmly,
Heather




>
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] [Event] Wikiwomen's Lunch during Wikimania 2015

[Heather Walls]

Hi everyone!

WMF Communications would love to get your thoughts and ideas around
Wikipedia's 15th birthday which is coming up in January of 2016. I'd like
to invite any Wikiwomen here at Wikimania who want to participate to sign
up on Meta.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimania_workshop

Ideally we would have 6 people to run through a fun exercise. I think it
will be from 10 to 11 on Sunday. Please come share!

Thank you,
Heather


On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Netha Hussain nethahuss...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hi everyone,

   As you might already know, Wikimania is happening in Mexico city
 from July 15-19, 2015. There would be a Wikiwomen's lunch on Saturday, July
 18, from 12:30-13:45. Anyone who identify themselves as women and
 participating in Wikimania 2015 are invited to attend the lunch. The venue
 would be Don Genaro.

 If you are coming, please sign up on the event page here :
 https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiwomen%27s_Lunch


 Hope to meet you all while at Wikimania!

 Regards
 Netha







 --
 Netha Hussain
 Student of Medicine and Surgery
 Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode
 Blogs :
 *nethahussain.blogspot.com
 http://nethahussain.blogspot.comswethaambari.wordpress.com
 http://swethaambari.wordpress.com*


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-- 
Heather Walls
Wikimedia Foundation
149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105

annual.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Gendergap] Test Kaffeeklatsch area for women-only

[Heather Walls]

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Whatever else cis is, it's not a scientific term.  It's a buzzword that
 sounds scientific because it derives from the Latin, but in fact it's a
 coined term that is not used in science.


What makes a term scientific other than that scientists use it?

Sociologists Kristen Schilt and Laurel Westbrook define *cisgender* as a
label for individuals who have a match between the gender they were
assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity as a
complement to *transgender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender*.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender#cite_note-2

*Sociology* is the academic study of social behaviour
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behaviour, its origins, development,
organisation, and institutions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-1 It is a social
science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science that uses various
methods of empirical investigation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_method[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements8-2
 and critical analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_analysis[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements4-3 to
develop a body of knowledge about social order, social disorder and social
change.




 Risker/Anne



 On 16 January 2015 at 16:33, Sarah Stierch sarah.stie...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I'm not cis..and it was a term I only learned about a few years ago...
 but, here's the Wikipedia article:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

 It means that someone identifies as the gender they were born with. So,
 if you're born with female parts and you identify as a woman and it's
 totally inline with who you are as said woman... you're cis.

 I think Lightbreather used it in the correct way. I'm not sure why it's
 an insult. It's more like a scientific term, it seems, then a cultural
 movement.

 But, I've learned by now I'm rather an epic fail at trying to use all of
 these phrases properly. I blame being from Indiana.  ;-)

 Sarah

 On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Katherine Casey 
 fluffernutter.w...@gmail.com wrote:



 *Also note many women consider cis to be an insult that eliminates
 womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women
 from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.*
 ...wha?

 On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Carol Moore dc 
 carolmoor...@verizon.net wrote:

  On 1/16/2015 2:20 PM, LB wrote:

 Based on a discussion at the WikiProject Women IdeaLab talk page
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/WikiProject_Women#best_practice.3F,
 I have started a test Kaffeeklatsch
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lightbreather/Kaffeeklatsch area
 for women (cis, lesbian, transgender) only. Participation of interested
 women would be welcome.

  Lightbreather

 Since cis means non-trans male or female, where's the woman only?

 Also note many women consider cis to be an insult that eliminates
 womens experience as women, who've been identified as and identify as women
 from birth, and are happy and even proud to be women.

 CM

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 --

 Sarah Stierch

 -

 Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization.

 www.sarahstierch.com

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-- 
Heather Walls
Communications Design Manager I Wikimedia Foundation
149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105
heat...@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Gendergap] (no subject)

[Heather Walls]

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Tim Davenport shoehu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I for one would immediately be running the project through the Miscellany
 for Deletion process.

 You don't see anything slightly wrong with this idea? Really?!?

 This is 100% unadulterated identity politics.


You say that as if identity politics is somehow inherently negative.



 Tim Davenport
 Carrite on WP /// Randy from Boise on WPO
 Corvallis, OR


 Is it simply impossible to start a Wikipedia project that's open to
 women,
 or people who identify as women? (I'm sorry if I don't use the correct
 terms, but I haven't kept up with them in recent years.)

 I mean if we did it... what would the consequences be?

 Lightbreather

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-- 
*Heather Walls*
Communications Design Manager I Wikimedia Foundation
149 New Montgomery Street I San Francisco, CA 94105
heat...@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Gendergap] How to Acknowledge an all-male panel.

[Heather Walls]

I'm not sure what you mean by qualified speakers, but you did you ask on
this list?

-h



On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Maximilian Klein isa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Gender Gap,

 With some collaborators, I submitted this panel for Wikimania 2014 Reform
 of citation structure for all Wikimedia project [1]. Despite my best
 efforts (and continuing efforts), I couldn't find any non-men to be on the
 panel. I asked each of the potential panelists if they knew any other
 qualified speakers (not specifically women, just other people), asked my
 old colleagues, put a call out on social media. But it just ended up being
 all-men.

 Is it desirable to write something to the effect of we are cognizant this
 is an all-male panel, and would like to change the underlying factors as a
 preamble to the submissions? And if so, what is the right way?

 Best,

 [1]
 http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Reform_of_citation_structure_for_all_Wikimedia_projects

 Max Klein
 http://notconfusing.com/

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Heather Walls
Communications Design Manager
WikimediaFoundation.org
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Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts

[Heather Walls]

 Wow. What a ridiculous way to say yes. Ive always found you to be
 switched on and relevant in the past; but looking over your contributions
 to those AFDs it feels like your certain the aim is to remove these
 articles because we are anti-women. And for no other reason.

 This is the sort of thing that puts women off editing Wikipedia and I am
 happy to call it out.
 Tom


Lord knows I can't sort out the feelings and frustrations in this thread,
but I have a reaction to this statement:
This is the sort of thing that puts women off editing Wikipedia and I am
happy to call it out.

This is a speculative claim from someone who seems to be attempting to
speak for an entire group of people to which I don't think they belong by
birth or nature (and pardon me if I am wrong in that assumption). My point
here is that it is a cruel dig toward someone (Carol) who very clearly
works toward equalizing gender issues on Wikipedia.

As a woman, I would ask you not to speak for me when criticizing other
women or deciding what would put me off of editing Wikipedia. For me
personally, this wouldn't even be on the radar. Thank you.
Heather
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Re: [Gendergap] Article Cumshot in English and German Wikipedia

[Heather Walls]

Advertising not sexist. Really.

I realize this is a tangent, but if I am going to see cumshot in my email
list a few more times, I might as well join in.

Hi all!

Heather



On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Thomas Morton
morton.tho...@googlemail.comwrote:

 Is there a perception bias here?

 There are many many fine art nudes of men in existence. And if you look at
 the body of work for nude sculpture then many are male - Pope  Pius IX
 was so enraged by this he even went around sticking fig leaves over all the
 cocks in the vatican*, an utter travesty in art.

 If you wander around the Louvre you will see lots of nude men on display.

 Modern advertising? Again perception bias I think - buy any girly mag (and
 I've been subjected to many) and they are littered with pictures of
 half-dressed blokes. Case in point; the famous image of Beckham in very
 small undies.

 One of my friends in advertising likes to say something along the lines of
 well one good thing you can say about this industry; at the very least we
 are not sexists.

 Nude people are popular pretty much in general :)

 Tom

 * ahem, that might be construed wrongly :S

 On 2 May 2012 17:55, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 **
 That's a good point. Even here in San Francisco it's much easier to find
 female nudity in art and advertising than male nudity. I just wish people
 would stick to commenting on the art instead of the woman's body.

 Ryan Kaldari



 On 5/2/12 12:40 AM, Caroline Becker wrote:

 The problem is, we live in a biased world where you can find much, much
 more female nudity in fine art musem than male nudity. I'm currently
 post-treating and uploading pictures from the Museum of Fine Arts of Rennes
 (France) and the only naked male body is a sculpture of a boy/young
 teenager playing, while they are lot of naked women, both in sculpture and
 paintings. Half-naked men are more often corpses than sexy budies.  (If you
 want I can create a gallery with all artworks showing naked or half-naked
 women).

  What can I do with that ? Not uploaded pictures of artworks with naked
 women ? Working harder to have awesome pictures of artworks with naked men
 ?

 Caroline


 2012/5/2 Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com

 It seems strange to talk about Featured Pictured Candidates as though
 it is a process, or talk about bias -- from what I could discern when I
 looked into it last time around, it's basically a system that lets anybody
 promote their own work, as long as they know how to jump through a couple
 pretty straightforward hoops and wait a few months.

 I still think that simply, clearly, *documenting* the process in a
 practical sense would be a useful first step toward thinking up and
 building interest in a more refined system. Until somebody puts in the
 effort to do something like that, we're going to continue to see weird
 entries on the front page of Commons (and many other projects that use
 Commons' front page image on their own front page) simply because one
 person took the initiative to make it happen.

 Not because the community at Commons made a bad decision. The
 community didn't make a decision at all.

 -Pete


 On May 1, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:

  Speaking of gender and nudity, it seems the bias towards female nudity
 at en.wiki's Featured Picture Candidates is still as strong as ever. And
 check out the quality comments at
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_picture_candidates/The_Pearl_and_the_Wave
 
  After you guys are finished photographing your all-male cumshots,
 maybe you could find some nice nude male art to nominate at Featured
 Picture Candidates. Too bad Robert Mapplethorpe is still copyrighted.
 
  Ryan Kaldari
 
  On 4/28/12 12:17 AM, Paolo Massa wrote:
  If you are curious about the images used in the same article on other
  language editions of Wikipedia you can use Manypedia.
  For the page Cumshot, it seems currently the same image is used on
  all language editions, while the Spanish one uses one more image
  http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Cumshot|es
  and the Japanese a different additional one.
  http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Cumshot|ja
 
  Of course this is not to say that if all language editions of
  Wikipedia represent the same concept using the same images, this is
  the best way of representing it. But at least you can appreciate
  differences in representations of different language communities.
  For example see the page Underwear on English and Arabic Wikipedia,
  http://www.manypedia.com/#|en|Underwear|ar
 
  Hope it helps.
 
  On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 3:42 AM, Emily Monroeemilymonro...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  I'm not sure the technical term for it either, but the laymen's term
 is
  female ejactulation. *shrugs*
 
  From,
  Emily
 
 
  On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Carol Moore DC
 carolmoor...@verizon.net
  wrote:
  On 4/27/2012 3:45 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
 
  I could have a go again, Carol.:)
 
  Gay porn is underrepresented in these