Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
On 20/09/2011 01:10, Andreas Kolbe wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXG38QxXY-s Not only worth watching but compulsory watching, I think. Thanks Andreas for this great link. I'll be watching the movie Good Hair next week-end. Yes I suspect light brown caffelatte skin is becoming a sort of norm now. In fact by watching American TV series, I would not be surprised if the light brown woman is the one who's here to stay and join the team, and the dark brown woman is the one being killed during the episode, or not a recurring character. On a more general scale, I first became aware of the dangers of unnecessary surgery by working for sports instructors a few years ago. If you imagine that sports physical enhancement will remain forever the mere injection of chemicals, well you're wrong. There is going to be carbon-fiber bones, all sorts of weird things. Now as far as average women are concerned, there is a deadly combination of : - the natural tendancy of women to take care of their appearance - new bio technologies - business interests eager to combine the two. But that will create Frankenstein's monsters really. Uneducated women are going to get convinced that their shoulders are too large, their hips to narrow, their humerus too long... it will really become crazy and extend to whatever possible. And then there is the problem of the consequences when growing older. In this case of skin whitening, even if the laboratory says it's safe, it nevertheless compulsorily means intervening in the skin as deep as the pigments, so frankly it doesn't sound that good to me. So I would compare it to food disorders or pathological gambling. Even if adults do that of their own free will, responsible institutions should not go that way. Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
Arnaud, I've ordered a copy of Good Hair as well. :) There are excellent scholarly sources on [[hair straightening]] in the black community. I dropped a few on the article's talk page, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I may do some work on the article. Any help by editors better qualified than me welcome! I agree about the Black Girls video. My wife showed it to me a few months ago, and it's stayed with me ever since. As for your other point, about unnecessary surgery, Sarah spotted that we had some frankly misleading before/after plastic surgery pictures in a number of articles on female genitalia (uploaded by a plastic surgeon, no less). There were also two (2) in the vulva article. I found that quite perturbing. Best, Andreas --- On Wed, 21/9/11, Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net wrote: From: Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Black skins To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 0:15 On 20/09/2011 01:10, Andreas Kolbe wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXG38QxXY-s Not only worth watching but compulsory watching, I think. Thanks Andreas for this great link. I'll be watching the movie Good Hair next week-end. Yes I suspect light brown caffelatte skin is becoming a sort of norm now. In fact by watching American TV series, I would not be surprised if the light brown woman is the one who's here to stay and join the team, and the dark brown woman is the one being killed during the episode, or not a recurring character. On a more general scale, I first became aware of the dangers of unnecessary surgery by working for sports instructors a few years ago. If you imagine that sports physical enhancement will remain forever the mere injection of chemicals, well you're wrong. There is going to be carbon-fiber bones, all sorts of weird things. Now as far as average women are concerned, there is a deadly combination of : - the natural tendancy of women to take care of their appearance - new bio technologies - business interests eager to combine the two. But that will create Frankenstein's monsters really. Uneducated women are going to get convinced that their shoulders are too large, their hips to narrow, their humerus too long... it will really become crazy and extend to whatever possible. And then there is the problem of the consequences when growing older. In this case of skin whitening, even if the laboratory says it's safe, it nevertheless compulsorily means intervening in the skin as deep as the pigments, so frankly it doesn't sound that good to me. So I would compare it to food disorders or pathological gambling. Even if adults do that of their own free will, responsible institutions should not go that way. Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 18:30, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: Arnaud, I've ordered a copy of Good Hair as well. :) There are excellent scholarly sources on [[hair straightening]] in the black community. I dropped a few on the article's talk page, but it's just the tip of the iceberg. I may do some work on the article. Any help by editors better qualified than me welcome! I agree about the Black Girls video. My wife showed it to me a few months ago, and it's stayed with me ever since. As for your other point, about unnecessary surgery, Sarah spotted that we had some frankly misleading before/after plastic surgery pictures in a number of articles on female genitalia (uploaded by a plastic surgeon, no less). There were also two (2) in the vulva article. I found that quite perturbing. Best, Andreas Many thanks for your work on those articles, Andreas. I've written to a gynaecologist who published some images showing the natural variation between women, and I've asked if she's willing to release a couple. The Black Girls video is very moving. Sarah ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
Arnaud, I've just remembered a documentary related to your post that is very much worth watching. Here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXG38QxXY-s Andreas --- On Mon, 19/9/11, Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net wrote: From: Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net Subject: [Gendergap] Black skins To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, 19 September, 2011, 13:06 On 17/09/2011 22:40, Emily Monroe wrote: I remember accessing Wikipedia several times throughout my teenaged years; we cannot expect all of our readers to be an adult with a better understanding of anatomy. Just a quick note here : I've been talking to a dermatologist and she tells me one of the main issues is black women taking all sorts of meds to lighten their skin. It is often detrimental to health, and also it leads to considerable money loss in impoverished families, and unnecessary sorrow. I just thought Wikipedia should be aware of that. Here (fr) dermatologist are recruiting black women in the medical sector to lead campaigns against that. I guess one of the ways would be to show dark black women pictures more often, not just light brown. Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
Here is an example of Caucasian bias: the en:WP article on [[hair straightening]]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_straightening Despite the fact that this is a topic of great practical interest to black women, many of whom either have straightened their hair or have thought about doing it, the article makes no mention of afro hair, and the only two images are of Caucasian women. This article seems to fail a demographic of millions; and by failing these millions, we are also curtailing our chances of recruiting editors from this demographic, because it is likely to leave them with the impression that Wikipedia is not written for them. A. --- On Mon, 19/9/11, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Andreas Kolbe jayen...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Black skins To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, 19 September, 2011, 13:59 My impression is that we have an appalling dearth of photographs of black people generally, just like our coverage of black topics in general is wanting, including such basic areas as hair care and skin care. Articles on black intellectuals are often either poor stubs, or get deleted for erroneous assertions of lack of notability. In my opinion, we need a major outreach to African studies scholars, and black media, because we are missing out on the knowledge people of colour could bring to the project. Andreas --- On Mon, 19/9/11, Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.com wrote: From: Sydney Poore sydney.po...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Black skins To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Monday, 19 September, 2011, 13:28 Very interesting point. Sydney On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Arnaud HERVE arnaudhe...@x-mail.net wrote: On 17/09/2011 22:40, Emily Monroe wrote: I remember accessing Wikipedia several times throughout my teenaged years; we cannot expect all of our readers to be an adult with a better understanding of anatomy. Just a quick note here : I've been talking to a dermatologist and she tells me one of the main issues is black women taking all sorts of meds to lighten their skin. It is often detrimental to health, and also it leads to considerable money loss in impoverished families, and unnecessary sorrow. I just thought Wikipedia should be aware of that. Here (fr) dermatologist are recruiting black women in the medical sector to lead campaigns against that. I guess one of the ways would be to show dark black women pictures more often, not just light brown. Arnaud ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
On 9/19/11 4:26 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Here is an example of Caucasian bias: the en:WP article on [[hair straightening]]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_straightening Despite the fact that this is a topic of great practical interest to black women, many of whom either have straightened their hair or have thought about doing it, the article makes no mention of afro hair, and the only two images are of Caucasian women. Topical to this, there is a documentary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Hair That points out that hair straightening (Relaxer) is a billion dollar industry. This is a clear bias; I'm actually flabbergasted by this. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] Black skins
History continues to be written by Anglos and it's just as apparent in Wikipedia..and add a male dominated voice, and well...that's history. The same goes for topics about Native American subjects. I say it in my lecture about Indigenous peoples working with Wikipedia - it's just like any other history, it's primarily written by white males, and that has to change (followed with a picture of Kevin Costner). (I'm sure the same goes for other communities/races/ethnicity/skin colors articles, whatever you prefer, as well, these are just two areas I tend to write in..) Malcolm X described history being bleached, and I couldn't agree more. And here is one of my favorite Onion slaps: http://www.theonion.com/articles/white-history-year-resumes,139/ Having dialogue like this is a great start - I'd love to see it develop into a larger community discussion, like the gender gap publicity did. There is a lot of work to do, but, if we can develop successes with women, I like to think we can develop opportunities with more specific communities - and perhaps both at the same time. -Sarah On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Brandon Harris bhar...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On 9/19/11 4:26 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote: Here is an example of Caucasian bias: the en:WP article on [[hair straightening]]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_straightening Despite the fact that this is a topic of great practical interest to black women, many of whom either have straightened their hair or have thought about doing it, the article makes no mention of afro hair, and the only two images are of Caucasian women. Topical to this, there is a documentary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Hair That points out that hair straightening (Relaxer) is a billion dollar industry. This is a clear bias; I'm actually flabbergasted by this. ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap -- GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia http://www.glamwiki.org Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Arthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch and Sarah Stierch Consulting *Historical, cultural artistic research advising.* -- http://www.sarahstierch.com/ ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
