Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Emily Monroe]

I have my preferences set to have a section edit link at the top of the
page, so I can edit introductions. This often includes templates and
infoboxes.

From,
Emily

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:26 PM, J Hayes  wrote:

> i agree not coding
> especially with visual editor
>
> i look at it as another tool in the box for social media outreach
> for archivists and librarians and digital humanists
> pushing content to where researchers can find it.
>
> also broad principles of crowd sourcing, and open source software of crowd
> sourcing
> organizations use media wiki for internal wikis, and use crowd sourcing
> for transcription on their own site.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Christine Meyer <
> christinewme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You make some good points, Ellie.  However, it's been my experience that
>> even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax.  I am by no
>> means a coder, although I am married to one.  Perhaps a better way to frame
>> it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
>>
>> Christine
>> User:Figureskatingfan
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K  wrote:
>>
>>> I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and
>>> specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal.  I was interested in the
>>> Pinterest proposal too!  I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was
>>> the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
>>>
>>> Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
>>>
 ​"​
 If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I
 think there would be a greater take up...
 ​"​

>>>
>>> Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that
>>> were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to
>>> do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can
>>> take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with
>>> many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax
>>> isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS,
>>> which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on
>>> Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in
>>> Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia
>>> editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any
>>> means to learn the skills they have.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into
>>> thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing
>>> Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia,
>>> but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
>>>
>>> --Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
>>> visit:
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christine
>> 
>> Christine W. Meyer
>> christinewme...@gmail.com
>> 208/310-1549
>>
>> ___
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>> visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[J Hayes]

i agree not coding
especially with visual editor

i look at it as another tool in the box for social media outreach
for archivists and librarians and digital humanists
pushing content to where researchers can find it.

also broad principles of crowd sourcing, and open source software of crowd
sourcing
organizations use media wiki for internal wikis, and use crowd sourcing for
transcription on their own site.



On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Christine Meyer 
wrote:

> You make some good points, Ellie.  However, it's been my experience that
> even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax.  I am by no
> means a coder, although I am married to one.  Perhaps a better way to frame
> it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
>
> Christine
> User:Figureskatingfan
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K  wrote:
>
>> I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and
>> specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal.  I was interested in the
>> Pinterest proposal too!  I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was
>> the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
>>
>> Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
>>
>>> ​"​
>>> If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I
>>> think there would be a greater take up...
>>> ​"​
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that
>> were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to
>> do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can
>> take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with
>> many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax
>> isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS,
>> which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on
>> Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in
>> Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia
>> editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any
>> means to learn the skills they have.
>>
>> I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into
>> thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing
>> Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia,
>> but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
>>
>> --Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
>>
>> ___
>> Gendergap mailing list
>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
>> visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Christine
> 
> Christine W. Meyer
> christinewme...@gmail.com
> 208/310-1549
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
> visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[WereSpielChequers]

An alternative tack is to encourage people to edit sections rather than click 
the edit button at the top of the page. Aside from often avoiding templates and 
infoboxes, a habit of editing by section will greatly reduce your risk of edit 
conflicts.

As for editing Wikipedia improving a marketable skill, I'm sure we have lots of 
editors who edit in languages other than their first language. I may have a 
skewed experience there because much of my editing is fixing typos, but I like 
to feel that one of the added benefits of my editing is that I am sometimes 
helping others improve their written English.

Of course there is a minimum competence level needed before you can try and 
write significant content in a language you are learning, so we need to be 
careful about the level of fluency we suggest people have before we encourage 
them to edit in a language.

Regards

Jonathan


> On 21 Apr 2015, at 19:32, Christine Meyer  wrote:
> 
> You make some good points, Ellie.  However, it's been my experience that even 
> a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax.  I am by no means a 
> coder, although I am married to one.  Perhaps a better way to frame it is 
> that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
> 
> Christine
> User:Figureskatingfan
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K  wrote:
>> I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically 
>> about the Pinterest-related proposal.  I was interested in the Pinterest 
>> proposal too!  I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only one 
>> to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
>> 
>> Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
>>> ​"​If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I 
>>> think there would be a greater take up...​"​
>> 
>> Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were 
>> true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do 
>> with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can take 
>> bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with many 
>> additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax isn't 
>> a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS, which are 
>> not programming languages either. The only people who code on Wikipedia are 
>> the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in Python, I think) 
>> for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia editors are not 
>> going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any means to learn 
>> the skills they have.
>> 
>> I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into 
>> thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing 
>> Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia, 
>> but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
>> 
>> --Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
>> 
>> ___
>> Gendergap mailing list
>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please 
>> visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Christine
> 
> Christine W. Meyer
> christinewme...@gmail.com
> 208/310-1549
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please 
> visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Christine Meyer]

You make some good points, Ellie.  However, it's been my experience that
even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax.  I am by no
means a coder, although I am married to one.  Perhaps a better way to frame
it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?

Christine
User:Figureskatingfan

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K  wrote:

> I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and
> specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal.  I was interested in the
> Pinterest proposal too!  I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was
> the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
>
> Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
>
>> ​"​
>> If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think
>> there would be a greater take up...
>> ​"​
>>
>
> Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were
> true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do
> with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can
> take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with
> many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax
> isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS,
> which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on
> Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in
> Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia
> editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any
> means to learn the skills they have.
>
> I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into
> thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing
> Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia,
> but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
>
> --Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
> visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>



-- 
Christine

Christine W. Meyer
christinewme...@gmail.com
208/310-1549
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Ellie K]

I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and specifically
about the Pinterest-related proposal.  I was interested in the Pinterest
proposal too!  I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was the only
one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).

Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:

> ​"​
> If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think
> there would be a greater take up...
> ​"​
>

Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that were
true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to do
with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can
take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with
many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax
isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS,
which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on
Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in
Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia
editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any
means to learn the skills they have.

I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into
thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing
Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia,
but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.

--Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Marie Earley]

I recently attended an event for women thinking of getting into the creative 
digital sector. There were workshops on: writing content; monetizing blogs 
(through affiliate programs); and a basic introduction to coding. 

The coding workshops were really popular. I think the perception of Wikipedia 
by women is often that it is time consuming and complicated. When I first 
clicked on an edit button and saw a whole load of parameters and things I 
didn't understand, I thought: 
> "What do they mean by "anyone can edit Wikipedia", none of it even makes any 
> sense?"

My early edits are things like fixing dead links and creating wikilinks (with 
edit summaries that read "square brackets added to ..", rather than "added 
wikilink"). 

If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I think there 
would be a greater take up, as I think women use Pinterest because they find it 
contains things that are useful to them, and not as a chore with no reward.

Also, if there are surveys being done then can I suggest we answer this 
question, "How many edits by new male / female editors are reverted with the 
single-word edit summary of "irrelevant" or "unimportant"?

Marie

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 16:36:23 -0700
From: sboute...@wikimedia.org
To: kerry.raym...@gmail.com; gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

What Kerry said, particularly about using the survey to share your feedback on 
the experience.
In terms of outcomes, here is some more info as of the end of 
March:https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/04/03/inspire-campaign-new-ideas/

Moving many ideas into action will require more time and community discussion, 
no doubt. That said, by end of April we'll know which proposals will be given 
Inspire grant funding in order to execute in the near term. Around then we'll 
also put out a report on what we learned from the process of running an idea 
campaign (including your feedback via survey). Longer term impact of new 
initiatives coming out of the campaign will need to be assessed in the coming 
year. 




On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Kerry Raymond  wrote:














I don’t think there has been any decision
on which projects are being supported.

 

The survey is about the process, and would
provide you with ample opportunity to mention giving up in the face of hatred. 

 

Kerry

 









From:
gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of LB

Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2015 9:57
AM

To: Gender gap mailing list

Subject: [Gendergap] Outcome of
IdeaLab/Inspire campaign



 



My arm is in a cast/splint. Not in good spirits, not getting around
well. Got a request to participate in a survey re the Inspire campaign. Made me
wonder: What was the result? Which, if any, ideas are going to be supported.



 



I gave up on WikiProject Women because there was so much hatred thrown
at the idea and I had no idea how to proceed, even though a lot of people did
support it.





 





Finally: Could someone please tell me if this posts? I don't seem to
get things that I post to this list!














Lightbreather



















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-- 
Siko BouterseDirector of Community Resources
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

sboute...@wikimedia.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum 
of all knowledge. Donate or click the "edit" button today, and help us make it 
a reality!


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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Siko Bouterse]

What Kerry said, particularly about using the survey to share your feedback
on the experience.

In terms of outcomes, here is some more info as of the end of March:
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/04/03/inspire-campaign-new-ideas/

Moving many ideas into action will require more time and community
discussion, no doubt. That said, by end of April we'll know which proposals
will be given Inspire grant funding in order to execute in the near term.
Around then we'll also put out a report on what we learned from the process
of running an idea campaign (including your feedback via survey). Longer
term impact of new initiatives coming out of the campaign will need to be
assessed in the coming year.





On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Kerry Raymond 
wrote:

>  I don’t think there has been any decision on which projects are being
> supported.
>
>
>
> The survey is about the process, and would provide you with ample
> opportunity to mention giving up in the face of hatred.
>
>
>
> Kerry
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:
> gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On Behalf Of *LB
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 14 April 2015 9:57 AM
> *To:* Gender gap mailing list
> *Subject:* [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign
>
>
>
> My arm is in a cast/splint. Not in good spirits, not getting around well.
> Got a request to participate in a survey re the Inspire campaign. Made me
> wonder: What was the result? Which, if any, ideas are going to be supported.
>
>
>
> I gave up on WikiProject Women because there was so much hatred thrown at
> the idea and I had no idea how to proceed, even though a lot of people did
> support it.
>
>
>
> Finally: Could someone please tell me if this posts? I don't seem to get
> things that I post to this list!
>
>
>   Lightbreather
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please
> visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>



-- 
Siko Bouterse
Director of Community Resources
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

sboute...@wikimedia.org

*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. *
*Donate <https://donate.wikimedia.org> or click the "edit" button today,
and help us make it a reality!*
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Kerry Raymond]

I don't think there has been any decision on which projects are being
supported.

 

The survey is about the process, and would provide you with ample
opportunity to mention giving up in the face of hatred. 

 

Kerry

 

  _  

From: gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:gendergap-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of LB
Sent: Tuesday, 14 April 2015 9:57 AM
To: Gender gap mailing list
Subject: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

 

My arm is in a cast/splint. Not in good spirits, not getting around well.
Got a request to participate in a survey re the Inspire campaign. Made me
wonder: What was the result? Which, if any, ideas are going to be supported.

 

I gave up on WikiProject Women because there was so much hatred thrown at
the idea and I had no idea how to proceed, even though a lot of people did
support it.

 

Finally: Could someone please tell me if this posts? I don't seem to get
things that I post to this list!




Lightbreather

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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Janine Starykowicz]

Gmail hides your own posts from you, the rest of us see them.

Janine

LB wrote:

Finally: Could someone please tell me if this posts? I don't seem to get things 
that I post to this list!



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[Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[LB]

WikiProject Women was actually at the top of the Leaderboard:
*https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire/Leaderboard
*

Lightbreather
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[Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[LB]

My arm is in a cast/splint. Not in good spirits, not getting around well.
Got a request to participate in a survey re the Inspire campaign. Made me
wonder: What was the result? Which, if any, ideas are going to be supported.

I gave up on WikiProject Women because there was so much hatred thrown at
the idea and I had no idea how to proceed, even though a lot of people did
support it.

Finally: Could someone please tell me if this posts? I don't seem to get
things that I post to this list!

Lightbreather
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