Re: [VOTE] Graduate Apache Rave as TLP
Le 27/02/12 13:26, Ate Douma a écrit : I therefore now request the IPMC to vote on recommending the graduation of Rave with the below resolution [2] to the ASF Board. Please cast your votes: [ ] +1 to recommend graduation of Apache Rave as TLP [ ] +0 don't care. [ ] -1 no, don't recommend yet, because ... +1, binding. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] accept DirectMemory as new Apache Incubator podling
+1 (binding) Please VOTE: [X] +1 Accept DirectMemory into the Apache Incubator [ ] +0 Don't care [ ] -1 Don't Accept DirectMemory into the Apache Incubator because... Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Rave into the Incubator
[x] +1 Accept Rave into the incubator (binding) Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Approve the release of apache-esme-1.0-RC1-incubating
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Gianugo Rabellino wrote: On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:42 AM, Richard Hirsch wrote: The ESME community has voted on and approved the release of apache-esme-1.0-RC1-incubating. We would now like to request the approval of the Incubator PMC for this release. Let me restate my +1 (IPMC hat) here. Me too, +1 which makes two mentors/IPMC members binding votes. An and additional +1! Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE][PROPOSAL] Spatial Information Systems Proposal
Ian Holsman wrote: Given the lack of response on the proposal, I'll assume lazy consensus and call a vote. I'd like to propose incubation for a new project called the Spatial Information Systems (SIS). I think we have all the necessary bits in place for the proposal to go forward. note. Both Patrick& Chris are comitters in the lucene/hadoop projects. Proposal: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/SpatialProposal [x] +1. Accept SIS into the Incubator. Interesting stuff, and there's lot of room for innovation in this area. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Interest in Android-based projects?
Lee Fisher wrote: > What would be the focus (if any)? Two areas of emphasis that I'd think useful: 1) NDK-based: or APR, httpd, and other appropriate *-c projects, for unblocked devices and other Android-based platforms. Ensure BIONC C comapatility, address Binder/AIDL/JNI lib issues, so each developer doesn't have to do it with their own version of an Apache C-based library. Perhaps not on default phones today, but putting httpd on current Android embeddded projects (BeagleBoard ones, Android-x86, etc) might seed future projects to have more Apache possibilities. 2) SDK-based: ports of *-java projects and ports of the Commons Java libs that're appropriate. There's already many snapshots of Apache java projects on GoogleCode that've started to address this, at least for many Java libs. It would be nice to have an Apache-based central source for these kinds of changes. Perhaps update to the Android SDK toolchain, to make it as painless as possible for Android ISVs to use Apache libraries in their apps. Normally this is for OEMs' tools, unsure if non-partners can provide tools in this way yet. http://developer.android.com/sdk/adding-components.html#AddingSites Haven't tried it, but there is an "add site" button where you can add the URL of a new repository along with http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/repository/repository.xml That could be a nice way to package Android-tested Apache libraries for direct usage in Android projects, without having to integrate Maven or other complex dependency engines. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Interest in Android-based projects?
Scott Wilson wrote: [snip] I completely agree - what I think would be useful would be a W3C Widgets[1] & W3C DAP[2] implementation for Android to enable cross-platform standards-based mobile app development (as suggested by Peter-Paul Koch [3]). Apache Wookie(Incubating)[4] already implements the Widgets spec so there is code there to build on. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/ [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/ [3] http://quirksmode.org/presentations/sf09/google.pdf [4] http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/ Big +1, particularly since Android has this concept of widgets that users can put on their home screen, but using an Android-specific API. Implementing W3C widgets on top of this API would bring a wide range of new widgets to Android, and also give more exposure to W3C widgets. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Apache Shindig as an Apache Top Level Project
Vincent Siveton wrote: I would like to start an official vote to recommend the graduation of Apache Shindig as a Top Level Project to the Board. [x] +1 to recommend Shindig's graduation -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: What happened to the Poloka proposal?
Luciano Resende wrote: On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Sylvain Wallez wrote: Hi all, An acquaintance of mine just pointed me to the Poloka proposal [1] that was submitted one year ago, asking what happened to it. Digging in the archives [2], I found a thread discussing of the WS PMC being a possible champion for the proposal and then... nothing more. What ever happened to this proposal? Thanks, Sylvain [1] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal [2] http://incubator.markmail.org/search/?q=poloka Stay tuned, the Poloka proposal is being reviewed by the "University of Toronto" guys and will probably be discussed/proposed again in the near future (hopefully before end of year). Great! Thanks Luciano! Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
What happened to the Poloka proposal?
Hi all, An acquaintance of mine just pointed me to the Poloka proposal [1] that was submitted one year ago, asking what happened to it. Digging in the archives [2], I found a thread discussing of the WS PMC being a possible champion for the proposal and then... nothing more. What ever happened to this proposal? Thanks, Sylvain [1] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PolokaProposal [2] http://incubator.markmail.org/search/?q=poloka -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept Apache Clerezza into the incubator
Reto Bachmann-Gmür wrote: Please vote on accepting Apache Clerezza for incubation at the Apache Incubator. The full proposal is available at the end of this message and as a wiki page at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ClerezzaProposal <http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AceProposal>. We ask the Incubator PMC to sponsor it, with Bertrand as the Champion, and Gianugo, Niclas, Ross, Karl and Reinhard volunteering to be Mentors. Please cast your votes: [x] +1, bring Clerezza into Incubator +1, sounds very interesting. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Google Wave - anyone?
Christian Grobmeier wrote: Yes, Wookie is a server-side Widget repository and runtime/state management application that implements the Google Wave Gadget APIs; it has an API for connecting to applications that manage participants and contexts, which can include waves but also traditional CMS and intranet groups etc. So it could plug into a Wave Server (c) to handle the gadget management task. How complicated would it be to extend Vysper to a Wave Server? I am not deep into Jabber but I think Googles Wave might be one of the next (big) cool things. I am willing to learn and help if other people are interested. If you look at Wave's white papers and draft protocol specifications [1] there's a lot more in a Wave server than XMPP. A Wave server is firstly a document repository that handles concurrent editing by storing/applying/merging transformation operations on these documents. XMPP is there to allow federation, i.e. allowing people from different wave domains to collaborate on the same documents. In this regard, XMPP in Wave is essentially a transport protocol for transformation operations. Is it possible to build some kind of wave client build on top of wookie? No. Wookie addresses a particular aspect of a Wave server, which is some additional APIs for collaborative OpenSocial gadgets [2] Btw, it feels that wookie is quite similar to Apache Shindig - is it? Wookie complements Shinding with an implementation of the Wave gadget API. Hope this makes things clearer. Sylvain [1] http://www.waveprotocol.org/ [2] http://code.google.com/apis/wave/extensions/gadgets/guide.html -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Wookie Mentors (was RE: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Wookie - a W3C ...)
Gavin wrote: Two mentors are yet to subscribe to the wookie mailing lists and also to update the http://incubator.apache.org/projects/wookie.html page by adding themselves in as Mentors. Henning Schmiedehausen Sylvain Wallez Guys, are you still interested in being Mentors for this exciting new project? Sorry, I was on vacation on an exciting island in the indian ocean :-) Now ready for an exciting new project, I've subscribed to the lists and added myself to the website. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Proposal for Wookie a W3C Widget/Google Wave widget engine
on. This doesn't prevent, however, Wookie to provide complements or extensions to Shindig pretty much like SocialSite does. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Proposal for Wookie a W3C Widget/Google Wave widget engine
Scott Wilson wrote: Hi Sylvain, I'm Scott Wilson, one of the named committers on the Wookie proposal; I'm also a contributor to the W3C Widgets family of specifications. You are right in your assessment; W3C Widgets and Google Gadgets are indeed potential competing specifications for web widgets, despite the scoping statement in the W3C Landscape document that tries to make a hard distinction - this is more for political than technical reasons, as when you dig into the technology its clearer applicable in a wide range of environments. Because of this we are keen to enable platform developers and widget developers to avoid having to make a strong choice now between Google and W3C, and for users to need to distinguish between widgets/gadgets developed for mobile, desktop or web use, or which spec its been written to. We've also successfully integrated the Google Wave Gadget API with W3C Widgets*, an example of "mixing and matching" Widget standards. We currently embed Shindig as a component in deployments, and connect together the APIs where we can - for example, we implement the "setPrefs" feature of Shindig by connecting it up to our implementation of the W3C Preferences API (itself derived from HTML 5 Storage). It would be good to explore further collaboration as the implementation of the two spec families may follow a common path. We've adopted some patterns used in Shindig where appropriate (however its worth noting that implementing the W3C spec is far more straightforward than implementing Gadgets and OpenSocial). We've also been working with the Sakai3 project which have already been using Shindig, and have recently been experimenting with Wookie for the reason stated above - to transparently offer choice to their users of widgets using both W3C and Google spec families. On the client implementations side: I think we should look at splitting out some of the parts of the system into libraries that can be reused in client implementations - I know a few people who are already interested in doing some Android and iPhone apps - for example, a framework that "wraps" a W3C Widget in an iPhone container for submission to the App Store. Peter Paul Koch has also been lobbying Google to support W3C Widgets in Android natively, and it has also been discussed in the Android OSS community as a good idea for a potential community project. On implementation - so far we haven't come across any major issues in moving from client to server-side other than same domain/cross-site access, which we solve via server-side proxying (exactly the same as Shindig - in fact we have a config switch that lets deployments use Shindig's proxy rather than ours). However I think looking forward it would be good to consider CouchDB and Cassandra for storing Widget state data (preferences and shared states) rather than MySQL as key/value persistence is a good fit for widget states, and this may perform better under high load situations. I hope this answers your questions. Yes, it does! And this makes this project even more interesting. On the client side, you can certainly count me in, since developing Android and iPhone apps is part of my day job. I'm also particularly interested in the Wave API as a way to develop collaborative widgets, something that has been missing up to now in the various widget specs. * Our team had originally implemented functionality equivalent to the Google Wave Gadget API as an extension of W3C Widgets around 18 months before the Google announcement, but adopted the Google API for pragmatic reasons - we'd rather follow specs than create them. And this is a wise decision IMHO. Thanks! Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: Proposal for Wookie a W3C Widget/Google Wave widget engine
Ross Gardler wrote: I would like to submit the Wookie project proposal to the Incubator PMC. Our draft is appended to the end of this mail and is available at: http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WookieProposal A quick overview of Wookie is: Wookie is a Java server application that allows you to upload and deploy widgets for your applications. Wookie is based on the W3C Widgets specification, but widgets can also be included that use extended APIs such as Google Wave Gadgets and OpenSocial. I have agreed to champion and mentor this proposal, Gavin McDonald has also agreed to mentor, more mentors are being sought - let me know if you are interested. At this stage I am seeking feedback on or questions about the Wookie proposal. The project team are subscribed to this list and ready to respond to any queries. The W3C widget spec is more targetted at standalone installation of widgets (like the Mac's Dashboard, Yahoo widgets, Vista widgets, etc) and Wookie as I understand it aims a providing a server-side implementation of this specification. This is an interesting point of view that can allow a wider audience to use this specification that is currently mostly of interest to mobile phone vendors. Now I'm curious to know if a server-side implementation will not hit some technical difficulities related to the implementation of a client-side specification (I saw that already with XForms). What's interesting also, is that W3C widgets and OpenSocial gadgets are more or less competing specifications, and it seems from this proposal and what I saw in the code that Wookie would like to bridge the gap by providing OpenSocial features to W3C widgets. Is my understanding right? This looks like an interesting proposal, and I'm willing to help it through incubation if it is accepted by mentoring it. We must also consider the potential overlap with Shinding and Social Site and see what kind of collaboration (if any) with these projects would make sense. As a side note, I'd love to run W3C widgets on my Android phone and my iPod Touch. Would client-side implementations of the W3C spec fit in the Wookie project? Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE ABANDONED] Release Apache Incubator Shindig version 1.0 (RC4)
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Ian Boston wrote: ...If there is a reason why members of the IPMC have decided not to vote on this release, I would like to hear them, before spending the time doing another release and wasting the IPMC's time... I can't speak for others, but for me it's been plain lack of time to take a serious look at that release - sorry about that. Same here. Because of lack of time, I have totally neglected my mentor duties and must apologize for that. I digged in the source tarball and it looks good to me, not considering the technical aspects for which I trust the Shindig devs judgement. There's only one point I'm not sure about, which is the dependency on the LGPL'ed Hibernate in the samples. Now it's an optional dependency, that is furthermore only materialized in the JPA configuration and not in Java code. So I guess it's fine. So here's my late binding +1. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Accept ESME into the Apache Incubator
Darren Hague wrote: I think that now is the right time for a vote, so please vote +1 to accept ESME into the Apache Incubator, or -1 (with comments) if you think ESME should not be in the Apache Incubator in its present form. +1 Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] ESME - The Enterprise Social Messaging Experiment
David Pollak wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Sylvain Wallez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Darren Hague wrote: I would like to propose ESME as a project for the Apache Incubator. Enterprise Social Messaging Experiment (ESME) is a secure and highly scalable microsharing and micromessaging platform that allows people to discover and meet one another and get controlled access to other sources of information, all in a business process context. ESME is written in Scala and uses the Lift web framework. I've been looking at Scala and Lift while I was searching ways to apply Erlang's lightweight process approach to Java. So this is a very cool proposal and I'm willing to help as a mentor, so that it can finally force me to get my hands dirty on Scala! However, this proposal could be made way more interesting and potentially disrupting if it were to include the Lift framework itself, and also consider not only enterprise micro-blogging, but also open federated microblogging [1] that was initiated by Identi.ca [2]. Speaking for Lift (I'm the BDFL of Lift), I'm very very happy with how we've been hosting Lift. I don't see a compelling reason to move Lift to the Apache foundation. It's not just about hosting, but about getting more exposure to grow a larger community, which could be beneficial not only for Lift, but also more generally for Scala. ESME will support a variety of standard-ish APIs including Twitter's APIs, open federated micro blogging APIs, etc. It will also have a set of secure federation APIs. Sounds good! Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] ESME - The Enterprise Social Messaging Experiment
Darren Hague wrote: I would like to propose ESME as a project for the Apache Incubator. Enterprise Social Messaging Experiment (ESME) is a secure and highly scalable microsharing and micromessaging platform that allows people to discover and meet one another and get controlled access to other sources of information, all in a business process context. ESME is written in Scala and uses the Lift web framework. I've been looking at Scala and Lift while I was searching ways to apply Erlang's lightweight process approach to Java. So this is a very cool proposal and I'm willing to help as a mentor, so that it can finally force me to get my hands dirty on Scala! However, this proposal could be made way more interesting and potentially disrupting if it were to include the Lift framework itself, and also consider not only enterprise micro-blogging, but also open federated microblogging [1] that was initiated by Identi.ca [2]. Micro blogging has become part of the daily activity of many people, and a scalable open source solution to run federated microblogging would be really nice, rather than wondering when will be Twitter's next downtime ;-) Sylvain [1] http://openmicroblogging.org/ [2] http://identi.ca/ -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Accept Shindig for Incubation
Brian McCallister wrote: > This vote will run until Monday, Dec. 3, 2007. > > [X] +1 Accept Shindig for incubation > [ ] 0 Don't care > [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason : > Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Shindig, an OpenSocial Container
Brian McCallister wrote: > Shindig Proposal A big +1, and I'd happily be a mentor. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] accept Pig into Incubator
Doug Cutting wrote: > I would like to call the Incubator PMC to vote to incubate the > proposed Pig project. Discussion on this list evidenced broad > interest in this project, which bodes well for its ability to build a > diverse developer community. > > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PigProposal +1 Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Incubator Proposal: Pig
Olga Natkovich wrote: > Hi, > > Yahoo! research and development teams have developed a proposal below. The > proposal is also available on wiki at > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/PigProposal. > We would like to ask that the ASF consider forming a podling according to > the proposal. > High-level tools like Pig are definitely needed to ease the adoption non-traditional storage/database systems like Hadoop, both by the developer communities and their managers. I was pretty excited when the first opensource version was released a few months ago, so a big +1 for this proposal. I'd be happy to be a mentor too. Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is there a "no graduate" option?
Thomas Dudziak wrote: If now for instance, the DB PMC would somehow automatically get the the incubation mails for the projects that it voted into incubation and its reports, oversight from this PMC might enhance. After all it involves more work to actively delete mails than to not get them in the first place. And thus potential problems with incubated problems would surface sooner, and the workload of the Incubator PMC might decrease - one individual PMC has only a few projects in incubation whereas the Incubator PMC has to take care of all incubated projects. Interesting idea. Now forced distribution of emails won't work IMO as it's easy to delete without actually reading. So a way to ensure oversight of the originating PMC it to require a status update about related incubating projects in the quarterly board report. Sylvain -- Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies http://bluxte.net http://www.anyware-tech.com Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal
Leo Simons wrote: On Tue, Dec 20, 2005 at 04:14:22PM +0100, Sylvain Wallez wrote: I'm quite puzzled by this proposal. As I understand it, its mainly about a set of Eclipse plugins for Ajax applications and the Zimbra library that, among other features, provides a set of SWT-like widgets. How is that puzzling? Because the proposal mixes two different concerns, the runtime and the IDE (see the "subproject" and "no tie in" discussion) and because generic tooling is something unusual at the ASF. So the questions are: - is the ASF the place for Eclipse extensions? I don't deny the ability to _existing_ project to host their tooling, but this isn't the case here. IMHO that's a very valid question to which the current answer from the incubator is "yes, if there's sufficient interest from existing ASF members" with "sufficient" somewhat under discussion. I'll suggest that changing the answer to that question should be tackled independently of this proposal. IANAL. But from talking with Cliff at AC it seems there's not neccessarily a licensing barrier either. That's not a licensing question, but more a general OSS community question. The ASF isn't alone in the OSS world, and there has been some recent precedents where incubating projects have made other OSS organizations uncomfortable. I don't say the OSS world should be technically partitioned (e.g. server-side at Apache and IDE at Eclipse), but that we should at least try to play nice with other organizations and coordinate our activities. Back in August, Cliff proposed a few modifications [1] to the incubation proposal process, and IMO the current proposal shows how much these modifications are needed. - why incubate an Ajax library that none of the current ASF projects uses nor plans to use, unless I missed something? for all the usual reasons. "ties with existing ASF projects" is a question we sometimes ask but the rationale for even asking the question has never been written down in an email before (I think). I think what you're "missing" is 2 years of history in how we're doing incubation (which often involves "stuff that no existing ASF project uses or plans to use" when incubation started, like, ehm, Harmony, or Geronimo, or SpamAssassin, or ...) (...) See my answer to Sam: the current proposal is very different from SpamAssassin or Harmony. I personally feel that wanting to draw projects into the ASF *just* because other ASF projects want to use that stuff is Pretty Bad(tm). It should be easy and accepted and encouraged for ASF projects to use stuff that lives and breathes outside of the ASF if you ask me. Sure, and that's what many projects actually do (and you know how many external dependencies Cocoon has!). Now I don't see why it is bad to propose to an external project to join the ASF, to ensure more visibility and long-term sustainability when that external project already has a lots of merits and is used by several ASF projects. This is a win-win situation: we help the growth and healthiness of the external project, and by doing that we solidify the foundations on which our own projects are built. (...) Hmm. I think your email is more puzzling to me than the original proposal :-) (A heavyweight java-based IDE for doing what's essentially designed as "lightweight" stuff...it seems easier to just fix the embed-java-in-the- browser problem, like Stefano is doing with Piggy Bank...oh well...) Hehe, this comment actually shows how confusing the proposal is: it's not about embedding fat clients in the browser, but about on one side a general-purpose IDE and on the other side a specific client-side library. Sylvain [1] http://tinyurl.com/bfaoy -- Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies http://bluxte.net http://www.anyware-tech.com Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal
Martin Cooper wrote: Some comments: +1 to all your points. Personally, I am less than happy at seeing yet another large project proposed from a corporate source (and IBM at that), along with a dozen new committers who have not earned their merit at the ASF as most committers have. I feel the ASF is losing its way, and becoming a repository for corporate open-sourcing along with taking on responsibility for building communities around corporate code bases. I suspect I'm in the minority at the ASF, and I'm undoubtedly in the minority here in the incubator. But there doesn't seem to be a way for the incubator to say "no thanks", other than by a podling failing the incubation process, and that seems wrong to me. +1. And rather than a minority, this looks more like a silent majority to me. Sylvain -- Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies http://bluxte.net http://www.anyware-tech.com Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal
Sam Ruby wrote: Sylvain Wallez wrote: Adam Peller wrote: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal I'm quite puzzled by this proposal. As I understand it, its mainly about a set of Eclipse plugins for Ajax applications and the Zimbra library that, among other features, provides a set of SWT-like widgets. Yes. Also, this proposal pops up right after I mention on members@ that several projects at Apache are using or plan to use Dojo [1] and that we talked about inviting them. I sincerely hope this is just a coincidence. Completely a coincidence. I've been aware of the plan to submit this proposal for several weeks, and hadn't seen your post until you mentioned it. I also had a conflict that precluded me from coming to the ApacheCon. As a general rule, the ASF doesn't go out "inviting", people within the ASF either start a new project, or projects come to us. You're playing with words. Sure, there's no formal invitation process. Now ASF members can approach projects they find interesting and "suggest them to submit a proposal to the ASF", for the greatest benefit of both the coming and existing ASF projects. Thinking more about it, the fact that the ASF isn't supposed to invite projects seems to go against the ASF meritocratic rules. You should not ask for being a committer: you are voted in when other committers consider you deserve it. And you can reject the offer. Same for membership. Why couldn't it also apply to projects that already follow the Apache way and are of interest to the Foundation's projects? On the other hand, proposals like this one, originating from commercial entities, really look to me as "pushing the ASF door open", even if the incubator is supposed to ensure community diversity and healthiness before graduating as a real project. In any case, the ASF is not exclusionary: if there was interest Dojo could be added to this proposal, or could pursue a separate proposal. Right. Now I don't consider starting a proposal war to be the best thing to do. Especially considering that one of the Dojo devs told me "Those [the ASF benefits] are all good things, however the political and organizational overhead of the ASF appears huge". Bingo. So the questions are: - is the ASF the place for Eclipse extensions? I don't deny the ability to _existing_ project to host their tooling, but this isn't the case here. As I mentioned, I was involved with these discussions. The ASF doesn't tend to make these types of decisions based on the technical aspects of a project. What impressed me about the people who were proposing this is that they were sincerely interested in the Apache License and collaboration model. While the Eclipse development model is certain a valid one, it is different in a number of significant ways from the ASF. Suffice it to say that I am partial to the way the ASF does business. Ok. Now some of the planned features seems to directly overlap with what's already in webtools (e.g. the JavaScript editor), and this project would be the first one at the ASF in the general IDE tooling category, which is what Eclipse is all about. Sure, the development models are different and Apache cares about community and not technical details, but this seems weird anyway and I'm wondering if that won't turn into an OSS organizations war which would certainly be detrimental to all of us. In other words: why isn't this IBM-originated generic Eclipse tooling donated to the Webtools project, that also originated from IBM? - why incubate an Ajax library that none of the current ASF projects uses nor plans to use, unless I missed something? It is a valid question, but it is also valid to point out that the ASF has projects as diverse as TCL and SpamAssassin. The situation is very different here: several projects are integrating Ajax features and incidentally found that they were considering the same framework for that purpoe. Whereas none of the ASF projects was already envisioning close integration with a spam filter when SpamAssassin came to Apache. That could even end up with the funny (ahem) situation where Apache has an Ajax framework that isn't used by its Ajax-enabled server-side frameworks. Doesn't it sound weird? What is more important is considerations that the code be licensed with the Apache Software License (not dual licensed, like Dojo), that the committer bases be diverse, and operate in an open and collaborative model. C'mon! The incubation process is meant to solve licence and IP problems. Zimbra is MPL & ZPL(?), and the IBM contribution is "Licensed Materials - Property of IBM"!! The Dojo peeps dual-licensed their stuff to allow the widest distribution possible [1], and have a development model very close to the Apache way, with active user and
Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal
Adam Peller wrote: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal I'm quite puzzled by this proposal. As I understand it, its mainly about a set of Eclipse plugins for Ajax applications and the Zimbra library that, among other features, provides a set of SWT-like widgets. Also, this proposal pops up right after I mention on members@ that several projects at Apache are using or plan to use Dojo [1] and that we talked about inviting them. I sincerely hope this is just a coincidence. So the questions are: - is the ASF the place for Eclipse extensions? I don't deny the ability to _existing_ project to host their tooling, but this isn't the case here. - why incubate an Ajax library that none of the current ASF projects uses nor plans to use, unless I missed something? Sylvain [1] http://www.dojotoolkit.org/ -- Sylvain WallezAnyware Technologies http://bluxte.net http://www.anyware-tech.com Apache Software Foundation Member Research & Technology Director - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
