[PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

Hi All,

We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.

In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
feedback is appreciated.

Dave

= Abstract =

Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.

= Proposal =

Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
datacenter.

Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.

= Background =

The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to be
open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.

= Rationale =

While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks across
nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
handled like observability and log collection.

= Current Status =

== Meritocracy ==

By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to build
a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make this
even easier.

== Community ==

Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
vibrant community around the project.

== Core Developers ==

Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at Twitter.

== Alignment ==

The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support the
software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
ZooKeeper for service discovery.

We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
communities.

= Known Risks =

== Orphaned Products ==

The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in an
advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
for the project to incubate successfully.

== Inexperience with Open Source ==

Initial Aurora committers have varying levels of experience using and
contributing to Open Source projects, however by working with our mentors
and the Apache community we believe we will be able to conduct ourselves in
accordance with Apache Incubator guidelines. The close relationship between
the Aurora team and Apache Mesos means there is an awareness of the
incubation process and a willingness to embrace The Apache Way.

== Homogenous Developers ==

The initial set of committers are from a single organization, however we
expect that once approved for incubation the project will attract
contributors from more organizations. We have already had conversations
with other companies who have expressed an interest in Aurora.

== Reliance on Salaried Developers ==

Initial Aurora committers are salaried developers at Twitter, however
shortly after open sourcing the code we plan to diversify the project’s
core committers and contributors.

== Relationships with Other Apache Products ==

Initially, Aurora has been developed as a scheduler for Apache Mesos.
Additionally, it relies on ZooKeeper for service discovery, allowing
servers to register at a location and clients to subsequently discover the
servers.

== An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ==

While we respect the reputation of the Apache brand and have no doubts that
it will 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Brian McCallister]

Aurora is aimed at long-running stateless services (like app servers)?

-Brian


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Dave Lester wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
>
> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
> feedback is appreciated.
>
> Dave
>
> = Abstract =
>
> Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
>
> = Proposal =
>
> Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> datacenter.
>
> Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
> allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
> project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
> community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
>
> = Background =
>
> The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to be
> open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
>
> = Rationale =
>
> While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks across
> nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
> replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
> of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
> functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
> of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
> checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
> handled like observability and log collection.
>
> = Current Status =
>
> == Meritocracy ==
>
> By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to build
> a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
> according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
> contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
> Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
> meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
> with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make this
> even easier.
>
> == Community ==
>
> Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
> project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
> vibrant community around the project.
>
> == Core Developers ==
>
> Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
> Twitter.
>
> == Alignment ==
>
> The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
> open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support the
> software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
> ZooKeeper for service discovery.
>
> We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
> these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
> communities.
>
> = Known Risks =
>
> == Orphaned Products ==
>
> The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
> there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
> hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
> members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in an
> advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
> believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
> for the project to incubate successfully.
>
> == Inexperience with Open Source ==
>
> Initial Aurora committers have varying levels of experience using and
> contributing to Open Source projects, however by working with our mentors
> and the Apache community we believe we will be able to conduct ourselves in
> accordance with Apache Incubator guidelines. The close relationship between
> the Aurora team and Apache Mesos means there is an awareness of the
> incubation process and a willingness to embrace The Apache Way.
>
> == Homogenous Developers ==
>
> The initial set of committers are from a single organization, however we
> expect that once approved for incubation the project will attract
> contributors from more organizations. We have already had conversations
> with other companies who have expressed an interest in Aurora.
>
> == Reliance on Salaried Developers ==
>
> Initial Aurora committers are salaried developers at Twitter, however
> shortly after open sourcing the code we plan to diversify the project’s
> core committers and contributors.
>
> == Relationships with Other Apache Products ==
>
> Initially, Aurora has been 

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Jake Farrell]

I would like to volunteer to be a mentor for this project.

I am the Apache Thrift project chair and I am involved in the Apache
infrastructure group. I have handled releases for Apache Thrift since its
incubation and am very familiar with new project bootstrapping and
coordination. I think that my experiences with back end systems and scaling
architectures would be a perfect fit for this project along with my desire
to help new comers learn the Apache way.

Thank you for your consideration
-Jake




On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Dave Lester wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
>
> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
> feedback is appreciated.
>
> Dave
>
> = Abstract =
>
> Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
>
> = Proposal =
>
> Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> datacenter.
>
> Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
> allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
> project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
> community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
>
> = Background =
>
> The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to be
> open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
>
> = Rationale =
>
> While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks across
> nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
> replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
> of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
> functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
> of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
> checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
> handled like observability and log collection.
>
> = Current Status =
>
> == Meritocracy ==
>
> By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to build
> a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
> according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
> contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
> Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
> meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
> with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make this
> even easier.
>
> == Community ==
>
> Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
> project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
> vibrant community around the project.
>
> == Core Developers ==
>
> Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
> Twitter.
>
> == Alignment ==
>
> The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
> open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support the
> software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
> ZooKeeper for service discovery.
>
> We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
> these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
> communities.
>
> = Known Risks =
>
> == Orphaned Products ==
>
> The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
> there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
> hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
> members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in an
> advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
> believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
> for the project to incubate successfully.
>
> == Inexperience with Open Source ==
>
> Initial Aurora committers have varying levels of experience using and
> contributing to Open Source projects, however by working with our mentors
> and the Apache community we believe we will be able to conduct ourselves in
> accordance with Apache Incubator guidelines. The close relationship between
> the Aurora team and Apache Mesos means there is an awareness of the
> incubation process and a willingness to embrace The Apache Way.
>
> == Homogenous Developers ==
>
> The initial set of committers are from a single organization, however we
> expect that once approved for incubation the project will attract
> contributors from mo

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Henry Saputra]

Hi Dave,

This looks like interesting project and good contributions from Twitter
engineering.

But given that close relationship with Apache Mesos, wouldn't it be more
effective to be delivered as extension or feature contribution to Apache
Mesos?


- Henry


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Dave Lester wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
>
> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
> feedback is appreciated.
>
> Dave
>
> = Abstract =
>
> Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
>
> = Proposal =
>
> Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> datacenter.
>
> Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
> allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
> project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
> community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
>
> = Background =
>
> The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to be
> open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
>
> = Rationale =
>
> While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks across
> nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
> replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
> of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
> functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
> of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
> checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
> handled like observability and log collection.
>
> = Current Status =
>
> == Meritocracy ==
>
> By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to build
> a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
> according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
> contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
> Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
> meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
> with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make this
> even easier.
>
> == Community ==
>
> Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
> project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
> vibrant community around the project.
>
> == Core Developers ==
>
> Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
> Twitter.
>
> == Alignment ==
>
> The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
> open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support the
> software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
> ZooKeeper for service discovery.
>
> We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
> these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
> communities.
>
> = Known Risks =
>
> == Orphaned Products ==
>
> The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
> there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
> hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
> members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in an
> advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
> believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
> for the project to incubate successfully.
>
> == Inexperience with Open Source ==
>
> Initial Aurora committers have varying levels of experience using and
> contributing to Open Source projects, however by working with our mentors
> and the Apache community we believe we will be able to conduct ourselves in
> accordance with Apache Incubator guidelines. The close relationship between
> the Aurora team and Apache Mesos means there is an awareness of the
> incubation process and a willingness to embrace The Apache Way.
>
> == Homogenous Developers ==
>
> The initial set of committers are from a single organization, however we
> expect that once approved for incubation the project will attract
> contributors from more organizations. We have already had conversations
> with other companies who have expressed an interest in Aurora.
>
> == Reliance on Salaried Developers ==
>
> Initial Aurora committers are salaried developers at Twitter, however
> shortly af

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

Excellent, thank you Jake! I will add your name to the proposal.

Dave

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Jake Farrell  wrote:

> I would like to volunteer to be a mentor for this project.
>
> I am the Apache Thrift project chair and I am involved in the Apache
> infrastructure group. I have handled releases for Apache Thrift since its
> incubation and am very familiar with new project bootstrapping and
> coordination. I think that my experiences with back end systems and scaling
> architectures would be a perfect fit for this project along with my desire
> to help new comers learn the Apache way.
>
> Thank you for your consideration
> -Jake
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Dave Lester  >wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
> > service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
> > developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
> > quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> > datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
> > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
> >
> > In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
> > feedback is appreciated.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > = Abstract =
> >
> > Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
> >
> > = Proposal =
> >
> > Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
> > quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> > datacenter.
> >
> > Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
> > allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
> > project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
> > community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
> >
> > = Background =
> >
> > The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to
> be
> > open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
> >
> > = Rationale =
> >
> > While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks
> across
> > nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
> > replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the
> abstraction
> > of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
> > functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
> > of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
> > checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
> > handled like observability and log collection.
> >
> > = Current Status =
> >
> > == Meritocracy ==
> >
> > By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to
> build
> > a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
> > according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
> > contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
> > Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
> > meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path
> forward
> > with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make
> this
> > even easier.
> >
> > == Community ==
> >
> > Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing
> the
> > project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create
> a
> > vibrant community around the project.
> >
> > == Core Developers ==
> >
> > Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
> > Twitter.
> >
> > == Alignment ==
> >
> > The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
> > open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support
> the
> > software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
> > ZooKeeper for service discovery.
> >
> > We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
> > these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
> > communities.
> >
> > = Known Risks =
> >
> > == Orphaned Products ==
> >
> > The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project,
> and
> > there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
> > hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
> > members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in
> an
> > advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
> > believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
> > for the project to incubate successfully.
> >
> > == Inexperience with Open Source ==
> >
> > Initial Aurora committers have varying levels of experience using and
> > contributing to Open Source projects, however by working with our mentors
> > and the Apache community we believe we will be able to conduct ourselves
> in
> > accordance with Apache Incubator gu

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

Hi Henry,

Great question. Multiple schedulers are actively being developed for Mesos,
including Aurora by Twitter, Chronos by Airbnb (
http://nerds.airbnb.com/introducing-chronos/), one called Marathon that I
understand will be open sourced in the future, and I've spoken with several
different folks at meetups who are developing their own. There is some
overlap between these schedulers, but they also meet different use-cases so
I still think it makes sense to create Aurora as a separate Apache project
from the Mesos core.

It's also worth noting (and perhaps this is something to highlight in the
proposal itself) that a scheduler like Aurora could potentially be used
with other systems should the community wish to pursue that development in
the future.

Dave


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Henry Saputra wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> This looks like interesting project and good contributions from Twitter
> engineering.
>
> But given that close relationship with Apache Mesos, wouldn't it be more
> effective to be delivered as extension or feature contribution to Apache
> Mesos?
>
>
> - Henry
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Dave Lester wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
>> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
>> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
>> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
>>
>> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
>> feedback is appreciated.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> = Abstract =
>>
>> Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
>>
>> = Proposal =
>>
>> Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
>> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>> datacenter.
>>
>> Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
>> allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
>> project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
>> community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
>>
>> = Background =
>>
>> The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to
>> be
>> open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
>>
>> = Rationale =
>>
>> While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks
>> across
>> nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
>> replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
>> of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
>> functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
>> of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
>> checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
>> handled like observability and log collection.
>>
>> = Current Status =
>>
>> == Meritocracy ==
>>
>> By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to
>> build
>> a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
>> according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
>> contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
>> Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
>> meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
>> with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make
>> this
>> even easier.
>>
>> == Community ==
>>
>> Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
>> project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
>> vibrant community around the project.
>>
>> == Core Developers ==
>>
>> Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
>> Twitter.
>>
>> == Alignment ==
>>
>> The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
>> open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support
>> the
>> software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
>> ZooKeeper for service discovery.
>>
>> We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
>> these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
>> communities.
>>
>> = Known Risks =
>>
>> == Orphaned Products ==
>>
>> The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
>> there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
>> hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
>> members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in
>> an
>> advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
>> believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
>> for the pr

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Henry Saputra]

HI Dave, thanks for your reply.

Yeah I think it would be super useful to highlight ability to use Aurora
with other systems.

Another question: looks like from the proposal, it does not rely on Mesos
library as external dependencies at all?

Like other incubator projects, would you consider not having aurora-user
and aurora-issues lists at the beginning of incubation?
I think we would like to have dev list as the main list to have development
discussion in the early phase of incubation (other IPMCs probably
would recommend the same)


Thanks again,

- Henry


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Dave Lester wrote:

> Hi Henry,
>
> Great question. Multiple schedulers are actively being developed for
> Mesos, including Aurora by Twitter, Chronos by Airbnb (
> http://nerds.airbnb.com/introducing-chronos/), one called Marathon that I
> understand will be open sourced in the future, and I've spoken with several
> different folks at meetups who are developing their own. There is some
> overlap between these schedulers, but they also meet different use-cases so
> I still think it makes sense to create Aurora as a separate Apache project
> from the Mesos core.
>
> It's also worth noting (and perhaps this is something to highlight in the
> proposal itself) that a scheduler like Aurora could potentially be used
> with other systems should the community wish to pursue that development in
> the future.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Henry Saputra wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> This looks like interesting project and good contributions from Twitter
>> engineering.
>>
>> But given that close relationship with Apache Mesos, wouldn't it be more
>> effective to be delivered as extension or feature contribution to Apache
>> Mesos?
>>
>>
>> - Henry
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Dave Lester 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
>>> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
>>> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
>>> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>>> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
>>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
>>>
>>> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
>>> feedback is appreciated.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> = Abstract =
>>>
>>> Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
>>>
>>> = Proposal =
>>>
>>> Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
>>> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>>> datacenter.
>>>
>>> Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
>>> allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
>>> project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
>>> community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
>>>
>>> = Background =
>>>
>>> The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to
>>> be
>>> open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
>>>
>>> = Rationale =
>>>
>>> While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks
>>> across
>>> nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
>>> replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the
>>> abstraction
>>> of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
>>> functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
>>> of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
>>> checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
>>> handled like observability and log collection.
>>>
>>> = Current Status =
>>>
>>> == Meritocracy ==
>>>
>>> By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to
>>> build
>>> a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
>>> according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
>>> contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
>>> Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
>>> meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path
>>> forward
>>> with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make
>>> this
>>> even easier.
>>>
>>> == Community ==
>>>
>>> Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing
>>> the
>>> project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create
>>> a
>>> vibrant community around the project.
>>>
>>> == Core Developers ==
>>>
>>> Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
>>> Twitter.
>>>
>>> == Alignment ==
>>>
>>> The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
>>> open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support
>>> the
>>> software. Additionally, Aurora i

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi guys,

the proposal is interesting.
Quick question: do you plan to focus only on Mesos, or create a kind of 
more global and standalone job scheduler ?


Regards
JB

On 08/27/2013 12:27 AM, Dave Lester wrote:

Hi All,

We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.

In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
feedback is appreciated.

Dave

= Abstract =

Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.

= Proposal =

Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
datacenter.

Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.

= Background =

The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to be
open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.

= Rationale =

While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks across
nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
handled like observability and log collection.

= Current Status =

== Meritocracy ==

By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to build
a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make this
even easier.

== Community ==

Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
vibrant community around the project.

== Core Developers ==

Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at Twitter.

== Alignment ==

The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support the
software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
ZooKeeper for service discovery.

We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
communities.

= Known Risks =

== Orphaned Products ==

The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
hundreds of services as part of Twitter’s infrastructure. Additionally,
members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in an
advanced scheduler like Aurora (see “Interested Parties” section); we
believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
for the project to incubate successfully.

== Inexperience with Open Source ==

Initial Aurora committers have varying levels of experience using and
contributing to Open Source projects, however by working with our mentors
and the Apache community we believe we will be able to conduct ourselves in
accordance with Apache Incubator guidelines. The close relationship between
the Aurora team and Apache Mesos means there is an awareness of the
incubation process and a willingness to embrace The Apache Way.

== Homogenous Developers ==

The initial set of committers are from a single organization, however we
expect that once approved for incubation the project will attract
contributors from more organizations. We have already had conversations
with other companies who have expressed an interest in Aurora.

== Reliance on Salaried Developers ==

Initial Aurora committers are salaried developers at Twitter, however
shortly after open sourcing the code we plan to diversify the project’s
core committers and contributors.

== Relationships with Other Apache Products ==

Initially, Aurora has been developed as a scheduler for Apache Mesos.
Additionally, it relies on ZooKeeper for service discovery, allowing
servers t

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Chris Mattmann]

Hi Dave,

Proposal is looking good and really proud to be on the mentor team
to help bring the project to the ASF.

Mentors and Champions need to be on the IPMC:

http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#incubator-pmc


So, right now, I'm the only person in the list that meets that
criteria. We'll need to recruit more mentors and a champion to
satisfy this. Ben H. is an officer of the foundation as VP, Mesos,
and Jake is also an officer, which is great and should ultimately
allow them to pick up mentorship duties very quickly and in doing so
catch the eye of the IPMC. But, until that happens, we have to revise
that portion of our proposal and recruit more mentors and a Champion.


Cheers,
Chris


-Original Message-
From: Dave Lester 
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" ,
"d...@ischool.berkeley.edu" 
Date: Monday, August 26, 2013 3:27 PM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

>Hi All,
>
>We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
>service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
>developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
>quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
>https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal, and also pasted below.
>
>In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
>feedback is appreciated.
>
>Dave
>
>= Abstract =
>
>Aurora is a service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos.
>
>= Proposal =
>
>Aurora is a scheduler that provides all of the primitives necessary to
>quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>datacenter.
>
>Aurora builds on top of Apache Mesos and provides common features that
>allow any site to run large scale production applications. While the
>project is currently used in production at Twitter, we wish to develop a
>community to increase contributions and see it thrive in the future.
>
>= Background =
>
>The initial development of Aurora was done at Twitter, and is planned to
>be
>open sourced. This proposal is for Aurora to join the Apache Incubator.
>
>= Rationale =
>
>While the Apache Mesos core focuses on distributing individual tasks
>across
>nodes in a cluster, typical services consist of dozens or hundreds of
>replicas of tasks. As a service scheduler, Aurora provides the abstraction
>of a "job" to bundle and manage these tasks. Aurora provides many key
>functionalities centered around a job, including: definition, the concept
>of an instance and the serverset, deployment and scheduling, health
>checking, and introspection. It also allows cross-cutting concerns to be
>handled like observability and log collection.
>
>= Current Status =
>
>== Meritocracy ==
>
>By submitting this incubator proposal, we¹re expressing our intent to
>build
>a diverse developer community around Aurora that will conduct itself
>according to The Apache Way and use meritocratic means of accepting
>contributions. Several members of the Aurora team overlap with Apache
>Mesos, which successfully graduated from the Incubator and has embraced a
>meritocratic model of governance; we plan to follow a similar path forward
>with Aurora and believe that a synergy between both projects will make
>this
>even easier.
>
>== Community ==
>
>Aurora is currently being used internally at Twitter. By open sourcing the
>project, we hope to extend our contributor base significantly and create a
>vibrant community around the project.
>
>== Core Developers ==
>
>Aurora is currently being developed by a team of seven engineers at
>Twitter.
>
>== Alignment ==
>
>The ASF is a natural choice to host the Aurora project, given the goal of
>open sourcing the project and fostering a community to grow and support
>the
>software. Additionally, Aurora integrates with Apache Mesos, and Apache
>ZooKeeper for service discovery.
>
>We believe that inclusion within Apache will build stronger ties between
>these projects, and create further alignment between their goals and
>communities.
>
>= Known Risks =
>
>== Orphaned Products ==
>
>The core developers plan to continue working full time on the project, and
>there is very little risk of Aurora being abandoned since it is running
>hundreds of services as part of Twitter¹s infrastructure. Additionally,
>members of the Mesos community beyond Twitter have expressed interest in
>an
>advanced scheduler like Aurora (see ³Interested Parties² section); we
>believe that need will drive some of the community involvement necessary
>for the project to incubate succe

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

Hi Jean-Baptiste,

The focus is currently on Mesos. Our intent is to make it a sub-project.

Dave

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> the proposal is interesting.
> Quick question: do you plan to focus only on Mesos, or create a kind of
> more global and standalone job scheduler ?
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 08/27/2013 12:27 AM, Dave Lester wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
>> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
>> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
>> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
>> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
>> https://wiki.apache.org/**incubator/AuroraProposal,
>> and also pasted below.
>>
>> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
>> feedback is appreciated.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Donald Whytock]

Hi Dave...

So Aurora already exists as a functioning package?  Is there a
public-accessible project page for it somewhere?

Don


On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Dave Lester wrote:

> Hi Jean-Baptiste,
>
> The focus is currently on Mesos. Our intent is to make it a sub-project.
>
> Dave
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  >wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > the proposal is interesting.
> > Quick question: do you plan to focus only on Mesos, or create a kind of
> > more global and standalone job scheduler ?
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> >
> > On 08/27/2013 12:27 AM, Dave Lester wrote:
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> We're pleased to share a draft ASF incubation proposal for Aurora, a
> >> service scheduler used to schedule jobs onto Apache Mesos that we've
> >> developed at Twitter. Aurora provides all of the primitives necessary to
> >> quickly deploy and scale stateless and fault tolerant services in a
> >> datacenter. The complete proposal can be found:
> >> https://wiki.apache.org/**incubator/AuroraProposal<
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/AuroraProposal>,
> >> and also pasted below.
> >>
> >> In particular, we'd love to add additional mentors to the project. Your
> >> feedback is appreciated.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:

> So Aurora already exists as a functioning package?
>

Yes, Aurora is currently used in production at Twitter.


> Is there a public-accessible project page for it somewhere?
>

Not yet, but should the project be voted as an incubated project we will
get one online ASAP.

Dave

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

Hi Henry,

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Henry Saputra wrote:
>
> Another question: looks like from the proposal, it does not rely on Mesos
> library as external dependencies at all?
>

Aurora does rely on Mesos as a dependency, as it is an implementation of a
Mesos framework.

Like other incubator projects, would you consider not having aurora-user
> and aurora-issues lists at the beginning of incubation?
>

We recommended an aurora-user list because Aurora is currently
production-ready and used by Twitter. We anticipate that once we have an
initial release in the Incubator, it will be straightforward to for current
Mesos users to begin using Aurora. Development discussion would still made
on aurora-dev. How does that sound?

Dave

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

Hi Chris,

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Chris Mattmann  wrote:

> Mentors and Champions need to be on the IPMC


Thanks for your help, and good catch. We welcome more volunteers as mentors
or as a champion.

Dave

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Marvin Humphrey]

On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Dave Lester  wrote:
> We recommended an aurora-user list because Aurora is currently
> production-ready and used by Twitter. We anticipate that once we have an
> initial release in the Incubator, it will be straightforward to for current
> Mesos users to begin using Aurora. Development discussion would still made
> on aurora-dev. How does that sound?

See .

For small-ish projects, we recommend that user traffic be shunted onto the dev
list at first because we have observed that great new contributors tend to
emerge from the pool of highly engaged users.  You want to foster
conversations which flow seemlessly from "how do I do this" to "how do I
implement this" to "welcome new committer so-and-so".  Breaking out a separate
user@ list is not generally desirable until the project has hit critical mass
and dev list traffic is high.

Community growth is a difficult problem that is central to the Apache mission,
and it will be an important challenge for the proposed Aurora podling since
all the initial contributors work for the same company (Twitter).  It will be
tempting to make architectural decisions in private for the sake of
efficiency, but doing so will stunt the project's growth.  It's important to
hold project discussions out in the open where as many people as possible can
witness them and potentially jump in.

The issues/notifications/ci list is a different story.  Making the dev list a
good read with a high signal-to-noise ratio is a good recruitment tactic.
There are often people who are interested in high-level development
conversations and user discussions but who get annoyed by CI spam and issue
tracker trivialities.

In my opinion, it would be fruitful to start off with just dev@, private@ and
commits@ lists; discuss adding a notifications@ list as one of the first
community decisions you make on your dev@ list; and perhaps add a user@ list
later when the time is ripe.  However, all of these decisions are ultimately
up to the community; us Incubator denizens are just providing the best
guidance we can based on what seems to have worked in the past.

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Henry Saputra]

Hi Marvin, Dave,

+1 for dev@, private@ and commits@ lists for start.

If Aurora picks up more clients as "user" which making dev@ list too noisy
we could always request for user@ list.

- Henry


On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Dave Lester 
> wrote:
> > We recommended an aurora-user list because Aurora is currently
> > production-ready and used by Twitter. We anticipate that once we have an
> > initial release in the Incubator, it will be straightforward to for
> current
> > Mesos users to begin using Aurora. Development discussion would still
> made
> > on aurora-dev. How does that sound?
>
> See .
>
> For small-ish projects, we recommend that user traffic be shunted onto the
> dev
> list at first because we have observed that great new contributors tend to
> emerge from the pool of highly engaged users.  You want to foster
> conversations which flow seemlessly from "how do I do this" to "how do I
> implement this" to "welcome new committer so-and-so".  Breaking out a
> separate
> user@ list is not generally desirable until the project has hit critical
> mass
> and dev list traffic is high.
>
> Community growth is a difficult problem that is central to the Apache
> mission,
> and it will be an important challenge for the proposed Aurora podling since
> all the initial contributors work for the same company (Twitter).  It will
> be
> tempting to make architectural decisions in private for the sake of
> efficiency, but doing so will stunt the project's growth.  It's important
> to
> hold project discussions out in the open where as many people as possible
> can
> witness them and potentially jump in.
>
> The issues/notifications/ci list is a different story.  Making the dev
> list a
> good read with a high signal-to-noise ratio is a good recruitment tactic.
> There are often people who are interested in high-level development
> conversations and user discussions but who get annoyed by CI spam and issue
> tracker trivialities.
>
> In my opinion, it would be fruitful to start off with just dev@, private@and
> commits@ lists; discuss adding a notifications@ list as one of the first
> community decisions you make on your dev@ list; and perhaps add a user@list
> later when the time is ripe.  However, all of these decisions are
> ultimately
> up to the community; us Incubator denizens are just providing the best
> guidance we can based on what seems to have worked in the past.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>

Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Mattmann, Chris A (398J)]

Sure, makes sense to me.

Cheers,
Chris

++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++






-Original Message-
From: Henry Saputra 
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:08 PM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

>Hi Marvin, Dave,
>
>+1 for dev@, private@ and commits@ lists for start.
>
>If Aurora picks up more clients as "user" which making dev@ list too noisy
>we could always request for user@ list.
>
>- Henry
>
>
>On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Marvin Humphrey
>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Dave Lester 
>> wrote:
>> > We recommended an aurora-user list because Aurora is currently
>> > production-ready and used by Twitter. We anticipate that once we have
>>an
>> > initial release in the Incubator, it will be straightforward to for
>> current
>> > Mesos users to begin using Aurora. Development discussion would still
>> made
>> > on aurora-dev. How does that sound?
>>
>> See <http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MailingListOptions>.
>>
>> For small-ish projects, we recommend that user traffic be shunted onto
>>the
>> dev
>> list at first because we have observed that great new contributors tend
>>to
>> emerge from the pool of highly engaged users.  You want to foster
>> conversations which flow seemlessly from "how do I do this" to "how do I
>> implement this" to "welcome new committer so-and-so".  Breaking out a
>> separate
>> user@ list is not generally desirable until the project has hit critical
>> mass
>> and dev list traffic is high.
>>
>> Community growth is a difficult problem that is central to the Apache
>> mission,
>> and it will be an important challenge for the proposed Aurora podling
>>since
>> all the initial contributors work for the same company (Twitter).  It
>>will
>> be
>> tempting to make architectural decisions in private for the sake of
>> efficiency, but doing so will stunt the project's growth.  It's
>>important
>> to
>> hold project discussions out in the open where as many people as
>>possible
>> can
>> witness them and potentially jump in.
>>
>> The issues/notifications/ci list is a different story.  Making the dev
>> list a
>> good read with a high signal-to-noise ratio is a good recruitment
>>tactic.
>> There are often people who are interested in high-level development
>> conversations and user discussions but who get annoyed by CI spam and
>>issue
>> tracker trivialities.
>>
>> In my opinion, it would be fruitful to start off with just dev@,
>>private@and
>> commits@ lists; discuss adding a notifications@ list as one of the first
>> community decisions you make on your dev@ list; and perhaps add a
>>user@list
>> later when the time is ripe.  However, all of these decisions are
>> ultimately
>> up to the community; us Incubator denizens are just providing the best
>> guidance we can based on what seems to have worked in the past.
>>
>> Marvin Humphrey
>>


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Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation

[Dave Lester]

We can always add new mailing lists based upon need, so I'm fine with dev@,
private@, and commits@. The change is reflected in the wiki.

Best,
Dave

On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Sure, makes sense to me.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> ++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Henry Saputra 
> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
> Date: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 4:08 PM
> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" 
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Aurora for Incubation
>
> >Hi Marvin, Dave,
> >
> >+1 for dev@, private@ and commits@ lists for start.
> >
> >If Aurora picks up more clients as "user" which making dev@ list too
> noisy
> >we could always request for user@ list.
> >
> >- Henry
> >
> >
> >On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Marvin Humphrey
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Dave Lester  >
> >> wrote:
> >> > We recommended an aurora-user list because Aurora is currently
> >> > production-ready and used by Twitter. We anticipate that once we have
> >>an
> >> > initial release in the Incubator, it will be straightforward to for
> >> current
> >> > Mesos users to begin using Aurora. Development discussion would still
> >> made
> >> > on aurora-dev. How does that sound?
> >>
> >> See <http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/MailingListOptions>.
> >>
> >> For small-ish projects, we recommend that user traffic be shunted onto
> >>the
> >> dev
> >> list at first because we have observed that great new contributors tend
> >>to
> >> emerge from the pool of highly engaged users.  You want to foster
> >> conversations which flow seemlessly from "how do I do this" to "how do I
> >> implement this" to "welcome new committer so-and-so".  Breaking out a
> >> separate
> >> user@ list is not generally desirable until the project has hit
> critical
> >> mass
> >> and dev list traffic is high.
> >>
> >> Community growth is a difficult problem that is central to the Apache
> >> mission,
> >> and it will be an important challenge for the proposed Aurora podling
> >>since
> >> all the initial contributors work for the same company (Twitter).  It
> >>will
> >> be
> >> tempting to make architectural decisions in private for the sake of
> >> efficiency, but doing so will stunt the project's growth.  It's
> >>important
> >> to
> >> hold project discussions out in the open where as many people as
> >>possible
> >> can
> >> witness them and potentially jump in.
> >>
> >> The issues/notifications/ci list is a different story.  Making the dev
> >> list a
> >> good read with a high signal-to-noise ratio is a good recruitment
> >>tactic.
> >> There are often people who are interested in high-level development
> >> conversations and user discussions but who get annoyed by CI spam and
> >>issue
> >> tracker trivialities.
> >>
> >> In my opinion, it would be fruitful to start off with just dev@,
> >>private@and
> >> commits@ lists; discuss adding a notifications@ list as one of the
> first
> >> community decisions you make on your dev@ list; and perhaps add a
> >>user@list
> >> later when the time is ripe.  However, all of these decisions are
> >> ultimately
> >> up to the community; us Incubator denizens are just providing the best
> >> guidance we can based on what seems to have worked in the past.
> >>
> >> Marvin Humphrey
> >>
>
>
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