RE: The role of a mentor

[ross]

I agree with the observations and clarifications to my post.

I should perhaps have prefaced my opinion with "If I agree to mentor I assume I 
will [read everything] for the first x months and then monitor for problems 
after that"

This is why I've not mentored a project for some time. It *is* very time 
consuming if we are to do it right, especially at the start.

Ross

-Original Message-
From: Ted Dunning  
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 9:56 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: The role of a mentor

I try to be more aware early on and then ease up later after things start 
moving smoothly.

I still watch a lot, however.



On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:47 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz < 
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 6:07 AM, Hen  wrote:
> > ...If you
> > think of someone you view as a mentor, they didn't spend all their 
> > time looking over your shoulder. Instead you met with them from time 
> > to time
> and
> > discussed a topic that you were looking to find clarity on...
>
> That's how I see my role as a mentor - I try to become aware of where 
> help is needed, but generally don't follow everything.
>
> For this I like the [mentors] subject line tag that some podlings use 
> to raise the mentors attention on their dev list.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>


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Re: The role of a mentor

[Ted Dunning]

I try to be more aware early on and then ease up later after things start
moving smoothly.

I still watch a lot, however.



On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:47 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@codeconsult.ch> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 6:07 AM, Hen  wrote:
> > ...If you
> > think of someone you view as a mentor, they didn't spend all their time
> > looking over your shoulder. Instead you met with them from time to time
> and
> > discussed a topic that you were looking to find clarity on...
>
> That's how I see my role as a mentor - I try to become aware of where
> help is needed, but generally don't follow everything.
>
> For this I like the [mentors] subject line tag that some podlings use
> to raise the mentors attention on their dev list.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: The role of a mentor

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 6:07 AM, Hen  wrote:
> ...If you
> think of someone you view as a mentor, they didn't spend all their time
> looking over your shoulder. Instead you met with them from time to time and
> discussed a topic that you were looking to find clarity on...

That's how I see my role as a mentor - I try to become aware of where
help is needed, but generally don't follow everything.

For this I like the [mentors] subject line tag that some podlings use
to raise the mentors attention on their dev list.

-Bertrand

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Re: The role of a mentor

[Hen]

I liked Julian's description too.

Yours worries me though - specifically the "but in fact they are reading
every thread, watching every process being developed, thinking through
every decision. Very occasionally (in an ideal world) they are saying
nothing".

My first concern is because that's not in the meaning of mentor. If you
think of someone you view as a mentor, they didn't spend all their time
looking over your shoulder. Instead you met with them from time to time and
discussed a topic that you were looking to find clarity on; and your mentor
successfully helped you find clarity on that. Your description sounds more
like a coach, be it sports coach or another type. Always watching, ideally
doesn't have to nudge, but does when needed. Or Roz from Monster's Inc
"Always Watching". I know there's no reason why the definition of
Incubator Mentor has to equal other concepts of the word, but it helps.

The second concern is on available time. If we assume that all of us are
maxed out in our available time to volunteer for an activity, mentoring a
podling means giving up a substantial existing volunteer activity. In
essence to mentor a podling you have to stop tracking the communication on
another project, which means stopping contributing to another project.
That's a heavy hit and while having coaches (my word) for every podling
would be awesome, I don't see that we have that number of volunteer with
idle cycles waiting to do something.

Which takes us full circle - if what we want are coaches, absent (burnt
out?) mentors are no surprise at all.

Hen

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:35 AM,  wrote:

> +1000
>
> I've not been very active in the incubator for some time. I've
> participated in these "role of the mentor" conversations many times over
> the years. I wish I'd been able to make my contribution as clear and
> accurate as Julian's contribution below... (applause)
>
> A good mentor *looks* like they are doing nothing, but in fact they are
> reading every thread, watching every process being developed, thinking
> through every decision. Very occasionally (in an ideal world) they are
> saying nothing.
>
> When they do choose to speak it's because something is happening that is
> in conflict with "the Apache Way". The goal is not to teach the community
> specific and rigid processes, the goal is to teach the community how to use
> the Apache Way to create communities that create software. The precise
> processes will evolve over time in a way that suits the project community.
>
> In most cases, as the podling community matures the mentor will start to
> learn improvements to their own processes. This has certainly been true in
> every single project I've mentored over the years and why I occasionally
> come back and mentor a new project. It's a learning experience, it is NOT a
> teaching experience.
>
> Ross
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Jagielski 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:32 AM
> To: general 
> Subject: Re: The role of a mentor
>
> +1
>
> > On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:45 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone here taught someone how to fish? (Or how to make cookies,
> > or ski?)
> >
> > Mostly you just stand off, watching what they do. If you see them
> > about to screw up in a big way, step in. Occasionally, offer them
> > hints for how they might do what they’re doing a little bit better.
> > (Not too often, because they’ll start to resent the advice.)
> >
> > It’s a time-intensive process, and most of the time the person being
> taught thinks you’re doing nothing.
> >
> > Sometimes they ask for help, and very occasionally they ask for guidance
> (but only if you have not given them more unsolicited advice than they
> think they need, see above).
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 9, 2018, at 5:52 AM, Liang Chen  <mailto:chenliang6...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> +1, agree with JB points.
> >> Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok.
> >> "Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better
> >> if mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them
> >> to learn, tell them how to find the solution from ASF website.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Liang
> >>
> >> Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote
> >>> Hi John,
> >>>
> >>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project
> >>> technics/codebase (it's actually a bonus).
> >>>
> >>> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
> >>&g

RE: The role of a mentor

[ross]

Sorry, the below should say "very occasionally (in an ideal world) they need to 
say something" (thanks for the private ping on this mistake)

-Original Message-
From: r...@gardler.org  
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:36 AM
To: 'general@incubator.apache.org' 
Subject: RE: The role of a mentor

+1000

I've not been very active in the incubator for some time. I've participated in 
these "role of the mentor" conversations many times over the years. I wish I'd 
been able to make my contribution as clear and accurate as Julian's 
contribution below... (applause)

A good mentor *looks* like they are doing nothing, but in fact they are reading 
every thread, watching every process being developed, thinking through every 
decision. Very occasionally (in an ideal world) they are saying nothing.

When they do choose to speak it's because something is happening that is in 
conflict with "the Apache Way". The goal is not to teach the community specific 
and rigid processes, the goal is to teach the community how to use the Apache 
Way to create communities that create software. The precise processes will 
evolve over time in a way that suits the project community.

In most cases, as the podling community matures the mentor will start to learn 
improvements to their own processes. This has certainly been true in every 
single project I've mentored over the years and why I occasionally come back 
and mentor a new project. It's a learning experience, it is NOT a teaching 
experience.

Ross

-Original Message-
From: Jim Jagielski 
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:32 AM
To: general 
Subject: Re: The role of a mentor

+1

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:45 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone here taught someone how to fish? (Or how to make cookies, 
> or ski?)
> 
> Mostly you just stand off, watching what they do. If you see them 
> about to screw up in a big way, step in. Occasionally, offer them 
> hints for how they might do what they’re doing a little bit better.
> (Not too often, because they’ll start to resent the advice.)
> 
> It’s a time-intensive process, and most of the time the person being taught 
> thinks you’re doing nothing.
> 
> Sometimes they ask for help, and very occasionally they ask for guidance (but 
> only if you have not given them more unsolicited advice than they think they 
> need, see above).
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Apr 9, 2018, at 5:52 AM, Liang Chen > <mailto:chenliang6...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> +1, agree with JB points.
>> Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok. 
>> "Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better 
>> if mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them 
>> to learn, tell them how to find the solution from ASF website.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Liang
>> 
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote
>>> Hi John,
>>> 
>>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project 
>>> technics/codebase (it's actually a bonus).
>>> 
>>> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
>>> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...) 
>>> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache 
>>> rules 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around 4.
>>> See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and 
>>> existing TLPs 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation
>>> checklist) 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, 
>>> website, ...)
>>> 
>>> My $0.01
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>> 
>>> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm 
>>>> curious, from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member 
>>>> of a podling, what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their 
>>>> responsibilities to the podling?
>>>> 
>>>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in 
>>>> rehashing the written version.  But what do podlings need from 
>>>> their mentors?
>>>> Point
>>>> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the 
>>>> podling?  Do we (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are 
>>>> operating within certain bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a 
>>>> read of the pulse of a podling?
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> 
>>> jbonofre@
>> 
>

RE: The role of a mentor

[ross]

+1000

I've not been very active in the incubator for some time. I've participated in 
these "role of the mentor" conversations many times over the years. I wish I'd 
been able to make my contribution as clear and accurate as Julian's 
contribution below... (applause)

A good mentor *looks* like they are doing nothing, but in fact they are reading 
every thread, watching every process being developed, thinking through every 
decision. Very occasionally (in an ideal world) they are saying nothing.

When they do choose to speak it's because something is happening that is in 
conflict with "the Apache Way". The goal is not to teach the community specific 
and rigid processes, the goal is to teach the community how to use the Apache 
Way to create communities that create software. The precise processes will 
evolve over time in a way that suits the project community.

In most cases, as the podling community matures the mentor will start to learn 
improvements to their own processes. This has certainly been true in every 
single project I've mentored over the years and why I occasionally come back 
and mentor a new project. It's a learning experience, it is NOT a teaching 
experience.

Ross

-Original Message-
From: Jim Jagielski  
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:32 AM
To: general 
Subject: Re: The role of a mentor

+1

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:45 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone here taught someone how to fish? (Or how to make cookies, 
> or ski?)
> 
> Mostly you just stand off, watching what they do. If you see them 
> about to screw up in a big way, step in. Occasionally, offer them 
> hints for how they might do what they’re doing a little bit better. 
> (Not too often, because they’ll start to resent the advice.)
> 
> It’s a time-intensive process, and most of the time the person being taught 
> thinks you’re doing nothing.
> 
> Sometimes they ask for help, and very occasionally they ask for guidance (but 
> only if you have not given them more unsolicited advice than they think they 
> need, see above).
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Apr 9, 2018, at 5:52 AM, Liang Chen > <mailto:chenliang6...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> +1, agree with JB points.
>> Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok. 
>> "Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better 
>> if mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them 
>> to learn, tell them how to find the solution from ASF website.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Liang
>> 
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote
>>> Hi John,
>>> 
>>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project 
>>> technics/codebase (it's actually a bonus).
>>> 
>>> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
>>> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...) 
>>> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache 
>>> rules 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around 4. 
>>> See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and 
>>> existing TLPs 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation 
>>> checklist) 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, 
>>> website, ...)
>>> 
>>> My $0.01
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>> 
>>> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm 
>>>> curious, from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member 
>>>> of a podling, what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their 
>>>> responsibilities to the podling?
>>>> 
>>>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in 
>>>> rehashing the written version.  But what do podlings need from 
>>>> their mentors?
>>>> Point
>>>> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the 
>>>> podling?  Do we (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are 
>>>> operating within certain bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a 
>>>> read of the pulse of a podling?
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> 
>>> jbonofre@
>> 
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> 
>>> general-unsubscribe@.apache
>> 
>>> For additional command

Re: The role of a mentor

[Jim Jagielski]

+1

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 12:45 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone here taught someone how to fish? (Or how to make cookies, or ski?)
> 
> Mostly you just stand off, watching what they do. If you see them about to 
> screw up in a big way, step in. Occasionally, offer them hints for how they 
> might do what they’re doing a little bit better. (Not too often, because 
> they’ll start to resent the advice.)
> 
> It’s a time-intensive process, and most of the time the person being taught 
> thinks you’re doing nothing.
> 
> Sometimes they ask for help, and very occasionally they ask for guidance (but 
> only if you have not given them more unsolicited advice than they think they 
> need, see above).
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Apr 9, 2018, at 5:52 AM, Liang Chen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> +1, agree with JB points.
>> Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok. 
>> "Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better if
>> mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them to learn,
>> tell them how to find the solution from ASF website.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Liang
>> 
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote
>>> Hi John,
>>> 
>>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project technics/codebase
>>> (it's
>>> actually a bonus).
>>> 
>>> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
>>> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
>>> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
>>> 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
>>> 4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing
>>> TLPs
>>> 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
>>> 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)
>>> 
>>> My $0.01
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>> 
>>> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
 I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm
 curious,
 from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
 what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to
 the
 podling?
 
 We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in
 rehashing
 the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors? 
 Point
 you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do
 we
 (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within
 certain
 bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
 
 John
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> 
>>> jbonofre@
>> 
>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> 
>>> general-unsubscribe@.apache
>> 
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: 
>> 
>>> general-help@.apache
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://apache-incubator-general.996316.n3.nabble.com/ 
>>  
>> > >
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org 
>>  
>> > >
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org 
>>  
>> > >

Re: The role of a mentor

[Julian Hyde]

Has anyone here taught someone how to fish? (Or how to make cookies, or ski?)

Mostly you just stand off, watching what they do. If you see them about to 
screw up in a big way, step in. Occasionally, offer them hints for how they 
might do what they’re doing a little bit better. (Not too often, because 
they’ll start to resent the advice.)

It’s a time-intensive process, and most of the time the person being taught 
thinks you’re doing nothing.

Sometimes they ask for help, and very occasionally they ask for guidance (but 
only if you have not given them more unsolicited advice than they think they 
need, see above).

Julian


> On Apr 9, 2018, at 5:52 AM, Liang Chen  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> +1, agree with JB points.
> Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok. 
> "Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better if
> mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them to learn,
> tell them how to find the solution from ASF website.
> 
> Regards
> Liang
> 
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project technics/codebase
>> (it's
>> actually a bonus).
>> 
>> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
>> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
>> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
>> 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
>> 4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing
>> TLPs
>> 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
>> 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)
>> 
>> My $0.01
>> 
>> Regards
>> JB
>> 
>> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm
>>> curious,
>>> from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
>>> what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to
>>> the
>>> podling?
>>> 
>>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in
>>> rehashing
>>> the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors? 
>>> Point
>>> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do
>>> we
>>> (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within
>>> certain
>>> bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> 
>> jbonofre@
> 
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> 
>> general-unsubscribe@.apache
> 
>> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 
>> general-help@.apache
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-incubator-general.996316.n3.nabble.com/ 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org 
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org 
> 

Re: The role of a mentor

[Liang Chen]

Hi

+1, agree with JB points.
Mentor mostly just focus on ASF policy and rules, then is ok. 
"Teach him how to fish", it is more important, so it would be better if
mentors could provide some good example cases(role model) for them to learn,
tell them how to find the solution from ASF website.

Regards
Liang

Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote
> Hi John,
> 
> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project technics/codebase
> (it's
> actually a bonus).
> 
> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
> 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
> 4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing
> TLPs
> 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
> 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)
> 
> My $0.01
> 
> Regards
> JB
> 
> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm
>> curious,
>> from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
>> what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to
>> the
>> podling?
>> 
>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in
>> rehashing
>> the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors? 
>> Point
>> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do
>> we
>> (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within
>> certain
>> bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
>> 
>> John
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré

> jbonofre@

> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 

> general-unsubscribe@.apache

> For additional commands, e-mail: 

> general-help@.apache





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Re: The role of a mentor

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:54 AM, John D. Ament  wrote:
>...But what do podlings need from their mentors?...

I see my main role as helping the podling figure out what are the few
essential ASF rules and policies that they must follow, as well as
helping them understand that for everything else they have complete
freedom.

-Bertrand

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Re: The role of a mentor

[Kevin A. McGrail]

Adding to the responses:

- One of the duties I try and fill as a champion / mentor is to liaison
concerns and introduce them to the way the project should self-service
their own requests.

- I also try and quell the "this stinks" because there can be push back to
the way we do things.  I have said it takes about 2-3 years for people to
really appreciate the Apache Way and making sure they don't get too
frustrated in the meantime.

Regards,
KAM

--
Kevin A. McGrail
Asst. Treasurer & VP Fundraising, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 5:42 AM, Mark Struberg 
wrote:

> +1
>
> I'd also add to the list: explaining the reasons behind some of the things
> how projects at ASF works.
> Often people new to the ASF complain about the release checks and
> procedure. When you explain them the legal impact and our quality goals and
> the community aspects then they quickly understand and even actively
> support the way we run projects.
>
> People should not do it 'the Apache way' because it is some ceremony, but
> because it actually makes a lot of sense!
>
>
> Some the interpretation of the mentor role also depends on whether oneself
> is using the project as well.
> There are projects (like NetBeans, ISIS) where I mainly help with/focus on
> legal and infra stuff.
> And there are other projects where I'm also an active committer.
> Both cases are fine. But of course as committing mentor one has a way
> deeper insight into the projects health!
>
> LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
> > Am 03.04.2018 um 08:05 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau  >:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> > for me it is close to what JB described:
> >
> > 1. be there when needed (how do I create a git repo? how do I ask a
> > JIRA?Why do I need X?). Even documented, having somebody you can ask
> > more directly is often valuable.
> > 2. ensure the releases are legal (+ respect mandatory ASF rules + point
> out
> > not mandatory but recommanded rules)
> > 3. be there to remind community is important and not only code to
> prepare a
> > good graduation
> >
> >
> >
> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > @rmannibucau  |  Blog
> >  | Old Blog
> >  | Github  rmannibucau> |
> > LinkedIn  | Book
> >  ee-8-high-performance>
> >
> > 2018-04-03 7:31 GMT+02:00 Jean-Baptiste Onofré :
> >
> >> Hi John,
> >>
> >> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project
> technics/codebase
> >> (it's
> >> actually a bonus).
> >>
> >> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
> >> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
> >> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
> >> 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
> >> 4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing
> >> TLPs
> >> 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
> >> 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)
> >>
> >> My $0.01
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> JB
> >>
> >> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
> >>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm
> >> curious,
> >>> from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a
> podling,
> >>> what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to
> >> the
> >>> podling?
> >>>
> >>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in
> >> rehashing
> >>> the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors?
> >> Point
> >>> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?
> Do
> >> we
> >>> (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within
> >> certain
> >>> bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> >> jbono...@apache.org
> >> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> >> Talend - http://www.talend.com
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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>
>

Re: The role of a mentor

[Mark Struberg]

+1

I'd also add to the list: explaining the reasons behind some of the things how 
projects at ASF works.
Often people new to the ASF complain about the release checks and procedure. 
When you explain them the legal impact and our quality goals and the community 
aspects then they quickly understand and even actively support the way we run 
projects.

People should not do it 'the Apache way' because it is some ceremony, but 
because it actually makes a lot of sense!


Some the interpretation of the mentor role also depends on whether oneself is 
using the project as well.
There are projects (like NetBeans, ISIS) where I mainly help with/focus on 
legal and infra stuff.
And there are other projects where I'm also an active committer. 
Both cases are fine. But of course as committing mentor one has a way deeper 
insight into the projects health!

LieGrue,
strub


> Am 03.04.2018 um 08:05 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau :
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> for me it is close to what JB described:
> 
> 1. be there when needed (how do I create a git repo? how do I ask a
> JIRA?Why do I need X?). Even documented, having somebody you can ask
> more directly is often valuable.
> 2. ensure the releases are legal (+ respect mandatory ASF rules + point out
> not mandatory but recommanded rules)
> 3. be there to remind community is important and not only code to prepare a
> good graduation
> 
> 
> 
> Romain Manni-Bucau
> @rmannibucau  |  Blog
>  | Old Blog
>  | Github  |
> LinkedIn  | Book
> 
> 
> 2018-04-03 7:31 GMT+02:00 Jean-Baptiste Onofré :
> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project technics/codebase
>> (it's
>> actually a bonus).
>> 
>> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
>> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
>> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
>> 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
>> 4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing
>> TLPs
>> 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
>> 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)
>> 
>> My $0.01
>> 
>> Regards
>> JB
>> 
>> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
>>> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm
>> curious,
>>> from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
>>> what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to
>> the
>>> podling?
>>> 
>>> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in
>> rehashing
>>> the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors?
>> Point
>>> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do
>> we
>>> (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within
>> certain
>>> bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbono...@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 


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Re: The role of a mentor

[Romain Manni-Bucau]

Hi John,

for me it is close to what JB described:

1. be there when needed (how do I create a git repo? how do I ask a
JIRA?Why do I need X?). Even documented, having somebody you can ask
more directly is often valuable.
2. ensure the releases are legal (+ respect mandatory ASF rules + point out
not mandatory but recommanded rules)
3. be there to remind community is important and not only code to prepare a
good graduation



Romain Manni-Bucau
@rmannibucau  |  Blog
 | Old Blog
 | Github  |
LinkedIn  | Book


2018-04-03 7:31 GMT+02:00 Jean-Baptiste Onofré :

> Hi John,
>
> IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project technics/codebase
> (it's
> actually a bonus).
>
> As a mentor, I'm focusing:
> 1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
> 2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
> 3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
> 4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing
> TLPs
> 5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
> 6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)
>
> My $0.01
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
> > I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm
> curious,
> > from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
> > what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to
> the
> > podling?
> >
> > We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in
> rehashing
> > the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors?
> Point
> > you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do
> we
> > (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within
> certain
> > bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
> >
> > John
> >
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbono...@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: The role of a mentor

[Jean-Baptiste Onofré]

Hi John,

IMHO, a mentor is not necessary involved in the project technics/codebase (it's
actually a bonus).

As a mentor, I'm focusing:
1. Insure of the legal aspect of the project (ICLA/CCLA, SGA, ...)
2. Help around infra and release preparation according to Apache rules
3. Help to promote the project and build communities around
4. See if there's potential interaction with other podlings and existing TLPs
5. Help to go to graduation (following the graduation checklist)
6. (optional) Help on the contribution (codebase, website, ...)

My $0.01

Regards
JB

On 04/03/2018 12:54 AM, John D. Ament wrote:
> I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm curious,
> from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
> what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to the
> podling?
> 
> We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in rehashing
> the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors?  Point
> you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do we
> (the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within certain
> bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?
> 
> John
> 

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbono...@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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The role of a mentor

[John D. Ament]

I've been following along the absent mentors discussion.  But I'm curious,
from both an IPMC member's perspective as well as a member of a podling,
what roles do you see for a mentor?  What are their responsibilities to the
podling?

We have a few things written down, and I'm not too interested in rehashing
the written version.  But what do podlings need from their mentors?  Point
you in a direction to run with?  Do the apache work for the podling?  Do we
(the ASF) need mentors to ensure that podlings are operating within certain
bounds?  Do we rely on mentors to be a read of the pulse of a podling?

John