RE: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
People-wise, Jakarta is a subset of the larger Apache. So every member of the Jakarta community is a part of the Apache community, but not vice versa. The Jakarta community is primarily about server-side Java code, or re-usable components while the Apache community has many other languages in use and types of software. Hen On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Rajaneesh wrote: Had a basic questions.. In what way is the Jakartha community different from Apache community? -Original Message- From: Danny Angus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:06 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project We did remove the graduated TLP's from the nav some while ago, I think it was me who did it. But put it back when people started asking for it, the idea was that many people, including some of "us" tend to go to jakarta.apache first and click links to get to ant, struts et-al. I tend to think that if we're keeping the table of promoted projects we should get away without the nav, replace it with a single link to the table if you still want to satisfy the hidebound. I think the rule could be, if we've had a link on jakarta.apache we'll keep it, if not go to www.apache. Sub projects can still list important related stuff in their own nav. d. On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:08:51 -0800, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org";. Cheers, WILL - Original Message - From: "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
Had a basic questions.. In what way is the Jakartha community different from Apache community? -Original Message- From: Danny Angus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 3:06 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project We did remove the graduated TLP's from the nav some while ago, I think it was me who did it. But put it back when people started asking for it, the idea was that many people, including some of "us" tend to go to jakarta.apache first and click links to get to ant, struts et-al. I tend to think that if we're keeping the table of promoted projects we should get away without the nav, replace it with a single link to the table if you still want to satisfy the hidebound. I think the rule could be, if we've had a link on jakarta.apache we'll keep it, if not go to www.apache. Sub projects can still list important related stuff in their own nav. d. On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:08:51 -0800, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - > > Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? > > If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't > even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the > jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. > http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I > suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for > ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what > you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at > http://www.apache.org";. > > Cheers, WILL > > - Original Message - > From: "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jakarta General List" > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project > > > i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of > > ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since > > it contains more than log4j. > > > > i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it > > Apache Projects... > > > > - robert > > > > On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: > > > >> > >> At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used > >> to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently > >> Graduated, but neither name has won fans. > >> > >> Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it > >> involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a > >> noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. > >> > >> Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't > >> have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in > >> db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. > >> > >> So, any opinions? > >> > >> Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. > >> > >> Hen > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
We did remove the graduated TLP's from the nav some while ago, I think it was me who did it. But put it back when people started asking for it, the idea was that many people, including some of "us" tend to go to jakarta.apache first and click links to get to ant, struts et-al. I tend to think that if we're keeping the table of promoted projects we should get away without the nav, replace it with a single link to the table if you still want to satisfy the hidebound. I think the rule could be, if we've had a link on jakarta.apache we'll keep it, if not go to www.apache. Sub projects can still list important related stuff in their own nav. d. On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 13:08:51 -0800, Will Glass-Husain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - > > Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? > > If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't > even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the > jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. > http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I > suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for > ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what > you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at > http://www.apache.org";. > > Cheers, WILL > > - Original Message - > From: "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jakarta General List" > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project > > > i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of > > ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since > > it contains more than log4j. > > > > i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it > > Apache Projects... > > > > - robert > > > > On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: > > > >> > >> At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used > >> to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently > >> Graduated, but neither name has won fans. > >> > >> Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it > >> involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a > >> noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. > >> > >> Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't > >> have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in > >> db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. > >> > >> So, any opinions? > >> > >> Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. > >> > >> Hen > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
I am with this view. Its time to remove other TLP projects from Jakarta, whether or not they once had some link to Jakarta. Stephen - Original Message - Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org";. Cheers, WILL - Original Message - From: "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: On 12 Jan 2005, at 20:59, Henri Yandell wrote: That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. new TLPs are relatively infrequent events and require (i believe) a board resolution. (i'd also hope that they'd be announced to a public announcement list but this seems not to happen as often as it should.) i suppose that this one is your call: if you'd be able to find time to update the site every time you hear official, then it'd be feasible. Well, community call, not mine. I'm just being a loud, active member of the community atm. My view was that we should maximise the Jakarta parts of the site and minimise the stuff that should be at the ASF level. With Related, I think we should develop a [EMAIL PROTECTED] page/subsite and then look to promote it up to the ASF level. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
Depends. What's your criteria for "Related"?
Mladen's new APR-Java is definitely related to Jakarta :) To be more
pedantic, httpd is related to Tomcat, but I'd not suggest that.
In my view, Related actually means [EMAIL PROTECTED], and we would do better to
have an actual page on that
(http://jakarta.apache.org/site/java_at_apache.html), I just didn't want
to go live with such a page quite yet.
Hen
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, Phil Steitz wrote:
Hate to push us around in a circle, but what exactly was so bad about
"Related"?
Phil
-Original Message-
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 1/12/2005 1:59 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to
modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for.
Something moving out of Jakarta, we're completely in the loop for and
can
catch it, we just don't know what to call it. OJB is a theoretical
problem, it's now db->ojb. Log4j is the same, now logging->log4j. We've
not really had a case where it was a huge problem; log4j is the mainstay
of logging and ojb was barely in Jakarta, but still. Problem.
Hen
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the
downside of
> ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta
since it
> contains more than log4j.
>
> i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label
it
> Apache Projects...
>
> - robert
>
> On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>>
>> At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that
used to
>> be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently
Graduated, but
>> neither name has won fans.
>>
>> Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that
it
>> involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a
noun.
>> Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these.
>>
>> Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things
don't
>> have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in
>> db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge.
>>
>> So, any opinions?
>>
>> Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday
night.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
Hate to push us around in a circle, but what exactly was so bad about "Related"?
Phil
-Original Message-
From: Henri Yandell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed 1/12/2005 1:59 PM
To: Jakarta General List
Cc:
Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to
modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for.
Something moving out of Jakarta, we're completely in the loop for and
can
catch it, we just don't know what to call it. OJB is a theoretical
problem, it's now db->ojb. Log4j is the same, now logging->log4j. We've
not really had a case where it was a huge problem; log4j is the mainstay
of logging and ojb was barely in Jakarta, but still. Problem.
Hen
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the
downside of
> ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta
since it
> contains more than log4j.
>
> i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label
it
> Apache Projects...
>
> - robert
>
> On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>>
>> At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that
used to
>> be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently
Graduated, but
>> neither name has won fans.
>>
>> Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that
it
>> involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a
noun.
>> Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these.
>>
>> Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things
don't
>> have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in
>> db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge.
>>
>> So, any opinions?
>>
>> Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday
night.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, Will Glass-Husain wrote: As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? Not as such. What they care about is that they can't find projects that have been graduated. What I care about is that I don't want to list every related project on our nav as it'll get out of control :) If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org";. Yep, tis an option. The welcome to has such a sentence, though people are unlikely to read the welcome message if they think they know what they are looking for. I can't think of a way to get such a sentence into the navbar :) Could just have a link at the bottom to 'Other ASF Projects', but even that would look daft. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
On 12 Jan 2005, at 20:59, Henri Yandell wrote: That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. new TLPs are relatively infrequent events and require (i believe) a board resolution. (i'd also hope that they'd be announced to a public announcement list but this seems not to happen as often as it should.) i suppose that this one is your call: if you'd be able to find time to update the site every time you hear official, then it'd be feasible. - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
As a lurker who's been watching this conversation I have a basic question - Do most visitors care about whether a project is "graduated" or "related"? If a new user comes from an up-to-date link (or book/article), they won't even be looking here. If they see an out-of-date reference in to the jakarta site, usually it'll be to a direct URL (e.g. http://jakarta.apache.org/ant) which should just forward to the new URL. I suspect only a few people will be searching on the Jakarta home page for ant, etc. So why not just a simple prominent sentence "Can't find what you're looking for? Check the list of related projects at http://www.apache.org";. Cheers, WILL - Original Message - From: "robert burrell donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
That's the bit I'm trying to avoid. When a new TLP turns up, we have to modify our site. Which we're just not in the loop for. Something moving out of Jakarta, we're completely in the loop for and can catch it, we just don't know what to call it. OJB is a theoretical problem, it's now db->ojb. Log4j is the same, now logging->log4j. We've not really had a case where it was a huge problem; log4j is the mainstay of logging and ojb was barely in Jakarta, but still. Problem. Hen On Wed, 12 Jan 2005, robert burrell donkin wrote: i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [site] Label for promoted Jakarta project
i'm not really sure there's any good solution to this one. the downside of ex-jakarta is that it's inaccurate: logging isn't really ex-jakarta since it contains more than log4j. i wonder whether we could fit in every apache project and just label it Apache Projects... - robert On 9 Jan 2005, at 00:42, Henri Yandell wrote: At the bottom of the left hand navbar is a section of projects that used to be a part of Jakarta. It used to be Related and is currently Graduated, but neither name has won fans. Martin has suggested 'Ex-Jakarta'. A problem with Graduated is that it involves explaining, and also that it is a poor label as it is not a noun. Ex-Jakarta wins on both of these. Ex-Jakarta has another advantage that I see, which is that things don't have to goto an Apache TLP to be Ex-Jakarta. OJB for example, in db.apache.org, or even to somewhere like Sourceforge. So, any opinions? Barring any -1's to Ex-Jakarta, I'll make the change on Wednesday night. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
