RE: Interesting quote....

[Les Hughes]

Reminds me of one of my tutors - 
"To copy from one source is to plagiarise, to copy from many is research"


> -Original Message-
> From: Doug Bateman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 25 June 2002 07:16
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: RE: Interesting quote
> 
> 
> > just like the BSD tcp/ip code in windows. MS is very good 
> at taking the
> > best bits of free software and running away with it. They 
> should do it
> > more often.
> 
> One of my CS professors (who's now a full professor at 
> Carnegie Mellon)
> used to always say "One good thief is worth 10 good engineers."
> 
> -- 
> He who lives without committing any folly is not so
> wise as he thinks.
> 
>  La Rochefoucauld (1613-1680)
>  French Classical Writer
> 
> 
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RE: Interesting quote....

[Doug Bateman]

> just like the BSD tcp/ip code in windows. MS is very good at taking the
> best bits of free software and running away with it. They should do it
> more often.

One of my CS professors (who's now a full professor at Carnegie Mellon)
used to always say "One good thief is worth 10 good engineers."

-- 
He who lives without committing any folly is not so
wise as he thinks.

 La Rochefoucauld (1613-1680)
 French Classical Writer


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RE: Interesting quote....

[Andrew C. Oliver]

> - Leo, who's thinking how nice it'd be to be able to plug in mod_webapp
> into that IIS
>


HA!

-Andy, who will laugh when Leo gets Code Red III or IV or whatever.
 
> 
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RE: Interesting quote....

[Leo Simons]

just like the BSD tcp/ip code in windows. MS is very good at taking the
best bits of free software and running away with it. They should do it
more often.

> Struth! It gets better! 
> 
> What next? IIS -> Help -> About "(c) 1998 ASF" That'd be the day

yeah. It'd solve a lot of security problems for starters!

cheers,

- Leo, who's thinking how nice it'd be to be able to plug in mod_webapp
into that IIS



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RE: Interesting quote....

[Les Hughes]

Struth! It gets better! 

What next? IIS -> Help -> About "(c) 1998 ASF" That'd be the day

> 
> Yes.  IIRC, The IE that came with windows originally (That didn't do 
> jack) was just Mosaic, which at the time
> had been recently acquired from NCSA, where Anderssen used to 
> work.  So 
> essentially, the netscape dude
> helped father both browsers.  Ironic eh?  (of course I felt until 
> mozilla ~.8 was released that both browsers sucked)

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Re: Interesting quote....

[Andrew C. Oliver]

>
>
>I guess they dropped the parts from Spyglass - wasn't the first IE just a
>rebranded spyglass browser?
>
>  
>

Yes.  IIRC, The IE that came with windows originally (That didn't do 
jack) was just Mosaic, which at the time
had been recently acquired from NCSA, where Anderssen used to work.  So 
essentially, the netscape dude
helped father both browsers.  Ironic eh?  (of course I felt until 
mozilla ~.8 was released that both browsers sucked)




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Re: Interesting quote....

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 6/24/02 11:29 AM, "Santiago Gala" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro wrote:
> 
>> Heh, that's funny. Thanks for pointing it out, I would never have imagined
>> that.
>>  
>> 
> It has been there since the very beginning. I remember seeing it back in
> Netscape 2/3 times, when Explorer was barely used at all (95/96, I can't
> remember).
> 

I guess they dropped the parts from Spyglass - wasn't the first IE just a
rebranded spyglass browser?

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. 
Research & Development, Adeptra Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1-203-247-1713



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Re: Interesting quote....

[Santiago Gala]

Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro wrote:

>Heh, that's funny. Thanks for pointing it out, I would never have imagined
>that.
>  
>
It has been there since the very beginning. I remember seeing it back in 
Netscape 2/3 times, when Explorer was barely used at all (95/96, I can't 
remember).


(...)

>>
>>Erm, IE 5.5 -> Help -> About
>>
>>"Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the 
>>National Center
>>for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois at
>>Urbana-Champaign."
>>
>>Now that's irony for you.
>>
>>
>>
Regards, Santiago Gala


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RE: Interesting quote....

[Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro]

Heh, that's funny. Thanks for pointing it out, I would never have imagined
that.

Un saludo,

Alex.

> -Mensaje original-
> De: Les Hughes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Enviado el: martes 18 de junio de 2002 15:37
> Para: 'Jakarta General List'
> Asunto: RE: Interesting quote
> 
> 
> Erm, IE 5.5 -> Help -> About
> 
> "Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the 
> National Center
> for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois at
> Urbana-Champaign."
> 
> Now that's irony for you.
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 18 June 2002 11:03
> > To: 'Jakarta General List'
> > Subject: RE: Interesting quote
> > 
> > 
> > +1 from a non-committer ;)
> > 
> > Remember that Netscape originally competed against NCSA 
> > Mosaic, it was only
> > later that Microsoft entered the game.
> > 
> > Un saludo,
> > 
> > Alex.
> > 
> 
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Re: Interesting quote....

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

Sam Ruby wrote:
> Doug Bateman wrote:
> 
>>
>> Sorry, I just don't measure success in terms of defeating Microsoft.  And
>> I'd wager Gandi's goal wasn't to defeat Britian, but to free India.
>> Hopefully, Apache feels the same way. Last I checked, beating Microsoft
>> was never mentioned in the Apache mission statement.
> 
> +1

I was diving into old posts on the mailing archive, and came up with 
this quote:

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

 > ... the real aim of the Apache project is to keep the internet
 > open. M$ might well get 100% market share of http browsers, but it
 > will not be able to turn http into some stupid over-blown proprietary 
 > protocol until Apache exists. And since Apache is made by all of you, 
 > on every hosted project, this will hardly be conquered by any
 > commercial company or by any single government (US citizens be
 > careful: next M$ move against Apache will be lobbying with the US
 > government to change the rules).
 >
 >This goal is much more important than anything else.
 >
 > Stefano.

[http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=86951909304870&w=2]

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-


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RE: Interesting quote....

[Les Hughes]

Erm, IE 5.5 -> Help -> About

"Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the National Center
for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois at
Urbana-Champaign."

Now that's irony for you.


> -Original Message-
> From: Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 18 June 2002 11:03
> To: 'Jakarta General List'
> Subject: RE: Interesting quote
> 
> 
> +1 from a non-committer ;)
> 
> Remember that Netscape originally competed against NCSA 
> Mosaic, it was only
> later that Microsoft entered the game.
> 
> Un saludo,
> 
> Alex.
> 

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RE: Interesting quote....

[Danny Angus]

> To free India, MANY other people, the real heros of India, not Gandi,
> fought and lost their lives. Gandi is just the one that the British want
> us the remember. Because Gandi refused to fight, India now has its
> greatest enemy right on its border (Pakistan). Had Gandi not been there,
> India would have been a much better country for it.

I think it would be better for everyone if you refrained from making
unsubstantiated and contentious political statements on this list, I am sure
that there are many much more appropriate forums in which to air your
opinion.

d.


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Re: Interesting quote....

[Shantul Nigam]

To free India, MANY other people, the real heros of India, not Gandi, 
fought and lost their lives. Gandi is just the one that the British want 
us the remember. Because Gandi refused to fight, India now has its 
greatest enemy right on its border (Pakistan). Had Gandi not been there, 
India would have been a much better country for it.

The mission for Apache is to produce the best product you can. That is 
fine for OpenSource however, most companies need to define who they 
compete against and how they will win.

As long as you are willing to fight Microsoft if that is what your 
company is in competition with, I don't have a problem. I do if you are 
going to reposition your company so you don't compete with them. That is 
what Marc is doing.

I think we have killed this one.

Shantul.

Doug Bateman wrote:

>I think by his quote, Marc ment that going head to head with Microsoft is
>an experience everyone should have once.
>
>Is the war to beat Microsoft or is it to bring a great idea / product /
>service to the world, and make money while you're at it?  With Netscape,
>Andreessen did just that... he made a killing selling off Netscape stock
>at sky high prices. Now he's aiming to do it all over again in his latest
>venture (this time with Microsoft as a partner).
>
>Sorry, I just don't measure success in terms of defeating Microsoft.  And
>I'd wager Gandi's goal wasn't to defeat Britian, but to free India.  
>Hopefully, Apache feels the same way. Last I checked, beating Microsoft
>was never mentioned in the Apache mission statement.
>
>Doug
>
>On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Shantul Nigam wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I would not make competing against Microsoft the reason for my being but 
>>neither would I stay away from competing with them or anyone else for 
>>that matter. It is simply a matter of perspective. Opportunity happens, 
>>if you allow fear, in any form, to stop you from seizing it, you lose. 
>>That is what Marc has done in this quote.
>>
>>It is not being aggressive. It is simply not blinking when another 
>>battle starts. History is full of people that took on a titan and won. 
>>Microsoft took on IBM and Apple. Canon took on Xerox. MCI took on AT&T. 
>>David took on Goliath, Britian took on Spain. the Colonies (America) 
>>took on Britian. Rome took on Greece. India took on Britian. History is 
>>full of similar examples.
>>
>>Everyone has a weakness. It is simply a matter of finding it. If you 
>>learned from your mistakes, you should be a better competitor next time.
>>
>>Believe it or not, that is why Microsoft keeps winning. IIS is horrible 
>>but they keep coming after Apache. Windows is unstable but they keep 
>>working on it. Over and over until they win. Too many people have Marc's 
>>attitude. It makes Microsoft's position even stronger.
>>
>>Success requires people to stepping up when the chance of victory is 
>>almost zero. Marc was one of these people. It distresses me to think 
>>that losing one battle has made him lose the war.
>>
>>Shantul.
>>
>>Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Shantul,
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>It is ok to not succeed. It is failure to give up. Saying you should 
>>>>compete only once is failure.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>How aggressive. IMHO, it is not necessarily failure to want to compete
>>>against someone only once. Sometimes one may want to move along, and do
>>>something else (i.e. compete against someone else, for you US residents  ;P
>>>
>>>Making the fight against Microsoft the reason d'etre of your life seems a
>>>little sad. On the other hand, saying "now I exchange baseball cards with
>>>Bill Gates, so I cannot comment" is also a bit sad.
>>>
>>>Un saludo,
>>>
>>>Alex Fernández
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>-Mensaje original-
>>>>De: Shantul Nigam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>>>Enviado el: lunes 17 de junio de 2002 15:02
>>>>Para: Jakarta General List
>>>>Asunto: Re: Interesting quote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I was responding to the quote. Netscape is finally back on 
>>>>track and the 
>>>>shift to browsers is a success, however, his attitute that you should 
>>>>compete against Microsoft only "once" is what makes him a 
>>>>failure. Most 
>>>>of us live by the adage "...Try, t

RE: Interesting quote....

[Fernandez Martinez, Alejandro]

+1 from a non-committer ;)

Remember that Netscape originally competed against NCSA Mosaic, it was only
later that Microsoft entered the game.

Un saludo,

Alex.

> -Mensaje original-
> De: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Enviado el: martes 18 de junio de 2002 11:30
> Para: Jakarta General List
> Asunto: Re: Interesting quote
> 
> 
> Also +1 on this one.
> Competing isn't good, since your strategy is based on what another
> company does, and then you are doomed. Just define your own goals, and
> if that ends up in being competetion for Microsoft, it is not 
> even your
> problem, but you just made something that is really good!
> 
> Mvgr,
> Martin
> 
> On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 09:39, Sam Ruby wrote:
> > Doug Bateman wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, I just don't measure success in terms of defeating 
> Microsoft.  And
> > > I'd wager Gandi's goal wasn't to defeat Britian, but to 
> free India.
> > > Hopefully, Apache feels the same way. Last I checked, 
> beating Microsoft
> > > was never mentioned in the Apache mission statement.
> > 
> > +1
> > 
> > - Sam Ruby
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
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Re: Interesting quote....

[Martin van den Bemt]

Also +1 on this one.
Competing isn't good, since your strategy is based on what another
company does, and then you are doomed. Just define your own goals, and
if that ends up in being competetion for Microsoft, it is not even your
problem, but you just made something that is really good!

Mvgr,
Martin

On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 09:39, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Doug Bateman wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I just don't measure success in terms of defeating Microsoft.  And
> > I'd wager Gandi's goal wasn't to defeat Britian, but to free India.
> > Hopefully, Apache feels the same way. Last I checked, beating Microsoft
> > was never mentioned in the Apache mission statement.
> 
> +1
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: Interesting quote....

[Sam Ruby]

Doug Bateman wrote:
>
> Sorry, I just don't measure success in terms of defeating Microsoft.  And
> I'd wager Gandi's goal wasn't to defeat Britian, but to free India.
> Hopefully, Apache feels the same way. Last I checked, beating Microsoft
> was never mentioned in the Apache mission statement.

+1

- Sam Ruby



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Re: Interesting quote....

[Shantul Nigam]

I guess, for Marc, Failure IS an option For most of us, it is not.

lloyd wrote:

> Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>
>> "My attitude is, everybody should try competing with Microsoft once 
>> in their
>> life. Once." -- Marc Andreessen
>
>
> ...and then, apparently, to get so cozy with them that you're 
> unwilling to even comment on their antitrust situation.
>
>
>
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Re: Interesting quote....

[lloyd]

Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
> "My attitude is, everybody should try competing with Microsoft once in their
> life. Once." -- Marc Andreessen

...and then, apparently, to get so cozy with them that you're unwilling 
to even comment on their antitrust situation.



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