Re: State of Slide project
Hello all, I've been watching Slide for close to two years as a user/integrator for document content management. Here is my two cents as an end-user of the project: *WebDAV is great for document and content management, and Jakarta Slide is the only project that fully supports this. The JCR may be nice, but it is java-specific and when dealing with document content management, WebDAV is language agnostic and a better approach. There are also a lot of tools that recognize and use WebDAV and not JCR (including .NET support for WebDAV). *Mailing List usage is dwindling, but I believe it is not because people don't want the project to thrive as much as frustration with the mailing list. There have been some key individuals (like Oliver) who have definitely helped, but they are few. *Part of the problem is that Jakarta Slide codebase is extremely abstracted and complex to follow -- not that abstract hasn't benefited it, but it is difficult for people to get started/understand the codebase. As for usage/configuration, examples of full implementations don't exist, only snippets that don't necessarily correlate with other snippets. Although once someone has digested all the snippets they can move forward, someone new would find this daunting. *Jakarta Slide is dormant - there have been a number of key and very important fixes and enhancements made since the 2004 release of slide 2.1, but these enhancements and fixes continue to be only within the SCM -- no releases have been made with these changes leaving users forced to always build from the SCM to get these fixes and features -- new users not familiar with Slide or the process may have poor impressions based on the 2004 binary versus what is available in the SCM. Also, dormant from the standpoint of a number of bugs left in bugzilla. *Jackrabbit vs Slide - I am looking forward to transistion to Jackrabbit, but **the Slide project must maintain visibility until Jackrabbit can equally support WebDAV**, this includes the DASL basicsearch searching component that is a recognized standard. Yes, I recognize the JCR does support Xquery, but tools that work with WebDAV (i.e. web publishing tools both open source and commercial, document management/knowledge management solutions using WebDAV repositories) don't support this, and for document content management the DASL basicsearch and the rest of WebDAV are a requirement. In summary, please keep Jakarta Slide visible until the Jackrabbit project can replace the WebDAV functionality found in Slide. In addition, a transition tool to move Jakarta Slide repositories to Jackrabbit would be a huge benefit to those users out there still using Slide. Thank you, -D
Re: State of Slide project
This raises an interesting question: Before the umbrella permissions for Jakarta were installed, slide had (and probably still has but without the subversion access file it is much harder to find out :-( ) 33 (!) committers with write access. Where did all these people go? Best regards Henning On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 08:44 -0400, Darren Hartford wrote: Hello all, I've been watching Slide for close to two years as a user/integrator for document content management. Here is my two cents as an end-user of the project: *WebDAV is great for document and content management, and Jakarta Slide is the only project that fully supports this. The JCR may be nice, but it is java-specific and when dealing with document content management, WebDAV is language agnostic and a better approach. There are also a lot of tools that recognize and use WebDAV and not JCR (including .NET support for WebDAV). *Mailing List usage is dwindling, but I believe it is not because people don't want the project to thrive as much as frustration with the mailing list. There have been some key individuals (like Oliver) who have definitely helped, but they are few. *Part of the problem is that Jakarta Slide codebase is extremely abstracted and complex to follow -- not that abstract hasn't benefited it, but it is difficult for people to get started/understand the codebase. As for usage/configuration, examples of full implementations don't exist, only snippets that don't necessarily correlate with other snippets. Although once someone has digested all the snippets they can move forward, someone new would find this daunting. *Jakarta Slide is dormant - there have been a number of key and very important fixes and enhancements made since the 2004 release of slide 2.1, but these enhancements and fixes continue to be only within the SCM -- no releases have been made with these changes leaving users forced to always build from the SCM to get these fixes and features -- new users not familiar with Slide or the process may have poor impressions based on the 2004 binary versus what is available in the SCM. Also, dormant from the standpoint of a number of bugs left in bugzilla. *Jackrabbit vs Slide - I am looking forward to transistion to Jackrabbit, but **the Slide project must maintain visibility until Jackrabbit can equally support WebDAV**, this includes the DASL basicsearch searching component that is a recognized standard. Yes, I recognize the JCR does support Xquery, but tools that work with WebDAV (i.e. web publishing tools both open source and commercial, document management/knowledge management solutions using WebDAV repositories) don't support this, and for document content management the DASL basicsearch and the rest of WebDAV are a requirement. In summary, please keep Jakarta Slide visible until the Jackrabbit project can replace the WebDAV functionality found in Slide. In addition, a transition tool to move Jakarta Slide repositories to Jackrabbit would be a huge benefit to those users out there still using Slide. Thank you, -D -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering Social behaviour: Bavarians can be extremely egalitarian and folksy. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria Most Franconians do not like to be called Bavarians. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of Slide project
They disappeared one after another after learning about the complexity of the Slide code. As discussed in another thread OS is about fun and passion. It is hard to keep up fun with such a complicated and partially confusing code base, though. If Slide was a commercial project it would certainly be kept going Oliver 2006/7/31, Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This raises an interesting question: Before the umbrella permissions for Jakarta were installed, slide had (and probably still has but without the subversion access file it is much harder to find out :-( ) 33 (!) committers with write access. Where did all these people go? Best regards Henning On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 08:44 -0400, Darren Hartford wrote: Hello all, I've been watching Slide for close to two years as a user/integrator for document content management. Here is my two cents as an end-user of the project: *WebDAV is great for document and content management, and Jakarta Slide is the only project that fully supports this. The JCR may be nice, but it is java-specific and when dealing with document content management, WebDAV is language agnostic and a better approach. There are also a lot of tools that recognize and use WebDAV and not JCR (including .NET support for WebDAV). *Mailing List usage is dwindling, but I believe it is not because people don't want the project to thrive as much as frustration with the mailing list. There have been some key individuals (like Oliver) who have definitely helped, but they are few. *Part of the problem is that Jakarta Slide codebase is extremely abstracted and complex to follow -- not that abstract hasn't benefited it, but it is difficult for people to get started/understand the codebase. As for usage/configuration, examples of full implementations don't exist, only snippets that don't necessarily correlate with other snippets. Although once someone has digested all the snippets they can move forward, someone new would find this daunting. *Jakarta Slide is dormant - there have been a number of key and very important fixes and enhancements made since the 2004 release of slide 2.1, but these enhancements and fixes continue to be only within the SCM -- no releases have been made with these changes leaving users forced to always build from the SCM to get these fixes and features -- new users not familiar with Slide or the process may have poor impressions based on the 2004 binary versus what is available in the SCM. Also, dormant from the standpoint of a number of bugs left in bugzilla. *Jackrabbit vs Slide - I am looking forward to transistion to Jackrabbit, but **the Slide project must maintain visibility until Jackrabbit can equally support WebDAV**, this includes the DASL basicsearch searching component that is a recognized standard. Yes, I recognize the JCR does support Xquery, but tools that work with WebDAV (i.e. web publishing tools both open source and commercial, document management/knowledge management solutions using WebDAV repositories) don't support this, and for document content management the DASL basicsearch and the rest of WebDAV are a requirement. In summary, please keep Jakarta Slide visible until the Jackrabbit project can replace the WebDAV functionality found in Slide. In addition, a transition tool to move Jakarta Slide repositories to Jackrabbit would be a huge benefit to those users out there still using Slide. Thank you, -D -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering Social behaviour: Bavarians can be extremely egalitarian and folksy. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria Most Franconians do not like to be called Bavarians. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: State of Slide project
Hi Guys, I have integrated slide with one of our application and was hoping to be able to make some minor updates to suit some of our needs, but you are right the code base does look to be complicated, also documentation is very little with practically no real examples on how to build something on top of it, or where to even start from. Knowing that this project won't be sustained is kind of disappointing. Some people did put a lot of work and I hope it is useful for someone or some application atleast. Thanks Pankaj -Original Message- From: Oliver Zeigermann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 4:08 PM To: Jakarta General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: State of Slide project They disappeared one after another after learning about the complexity of the Slide code. As discussed in another thread OS is about fun and passion. It is hard to keep up fun with such a complicated and partially confusing code base, though. If Slide was a commercial project it would certainly be kept going Oliver 2006/7/31, Henning Schmiedehausen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This raises an interesting question: Before the umbrella permissions for Jakarta were installed, slide had (and probably still has but without the subversion access file it is much harder to find out :-( ) 33 (!) committers with write access. Where did all these people go? Best regards Henning On Mon, 2006-07-31 at 08:44 -0400, Darren Hartford wrote: Hello all, I've been watching Slide for close to two years as a user/integrator for document content management. Here is my two cents as an end-user of the project: *WebDAV is great for document and content management, and Jakarta Slide is the only project that fully supports this. The JCR may be nice, but it is java-specific and when dealing with document content management, WebDAV is language agnostic and a better approach. There are also a lot of tools that recognize and use WebDAV and not JCR (including .NET support for WebDAV). *Mailing List usage is dwindling, but I believe it is not because people don't want the project to thrive as much as frustration with the mailing list. There have been some key individuals (like Oliver) who have definitely helped, but they are few. *Part of the problem is that Jakarta Slide codebase is extremely abstracted and complex to follow -- not that abstract hasn't benefited it, but it is difficult for people to get started/understand the codebase. As for usage/configuration, examples of full implementations don't exist, only snippets that don't necessarily correlate with other snippets. Although once someone has digested all the snippets they can move forward, someone new would find this daunting. *Jakarta Slide is dormant - there have been a number of key and very important fixes and enhancements made since the 2004 release of slide 2.1, but these enhancements and fixes continue to be only within the SCM -- no releases have been made with these changes leaving users forced to always build from the SCM to get these fixes and features -- new users not familiar with Slide or the process may have poor impressions based on the 2004 binary versus what is available in the SCM. Also, dormant from the standpoint of a number of bugs left in bugzilla. *Jackrabbit vs Slide - I am looking forward to transistion to Jackrabbit, but **the Slide project must maintain visibility until Jackrabbit can equally support WebDAV**, this includes the DASL basicsearch searching component that is a recognized standard. Yes, I recognize the JCR does support Xquery, but tools that work with WebDAV (i.e. web publishing tools both open source and commercial, document management/knowledge management solutions using WebDAV repositories) don't support this, and for document content management the DASL basicsearch and the rest of WebDAV are a requirement. In summary, please keep Jakarta Slide visible until the Jackrabbit project can replace the WebDAV functionality found in Slide. In addition, a transition tool to move Jakarta Slide repositories to Jackrabbit would be a huge benefit to those users out there still using Slide. Thank you, -D -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering Social behaviour: Bavarians can be extremely egalitarian and folksy. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria Most Franconians do not like to be called Bavarians. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia - To unsubscribe, e-mail
Re: State of Slide project
When no one argues with it being called dormant? :) (go circular logic). We've a bunch of meanings to cram into place. Obsolete is one term, sometimes due to JDK advances (ORO, Regexp, Commons-Logging) and sometimes because no one is really interested in the idea (ECS). The current status within Commons is that we've put things under Dormant if they hadn't had full releases. Inactive, yet released things have not been dealt with yet. Mature is very different - a mature project should still have an active user list and bugfixes being slowly made; at least someone should be listening. They don't however have any new development happening or likely to happen. For a mature project, I don't think we have to worry about labelling, we just need to make sure that people are still listening. Once the user mailing list is dead, that's when it's no longer mature and has become dead/dormant. You can argue about the dead/dormant labelling, but I think the easiest is to just go with Dormant for anything which is dead both in terms of user and dev lists. As time goes by we can refine that further. So * Mature projects - no change. Just something to look out for; a dead dev list and active user list with no one listening to bug reports being the bad state of a mature project. * Dormant projects - dead user list, dead dev list. Something becomes dormant by calling a vote on general@ suggesting it be moved to dormant. Forward the vote thread to the dev/user lists as a notification. Hen On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hm, how do you consider a project dormant? Is Velocity dormant? What I want to avoid is, that mature projects which are exactly where the committers want them to have and the one release a year, just bug fixes are put in the same bucket as projects that might be dormant or dead. Once a project is in that state, FUD is inevitable. We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code and dormant/dead code. Best regards Henning On Sat, 2006-07-29 at 13:25 -0400, Henri Yandell wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Oliver Zeigermann wrote: Hi, folks! Recently, worries about the state of the Slide project came up in private lists. It seems to be more or less unsupported and no community seems to exist any more. Most posts to the lists remain unanswered. Additionally, I have heard voices who consider Slide redundant now that Jackrabbit is a TLP. While this is not the thread to find out what has happened to the Slide project, we should think about what to do about it. If there is no one who feels responsible for the project or is willing to take responsibility we might put it into a dormant/unmaintained mode. This might give possible new users a warning. If new people came up who are ready to take the responsibility we might revive it. Additions? Opinions? Other voices? Am I completely wrong? Looking at mail-archives; Emails on the user list are 10% of what they were at the lists peak about 20 months ago. 40 odd so far this month, a dozen threads. Emails on the dev list are down to around 5% of what they were at its peak (20 months ago too). 30 emails this month. 4 threads from contributors, not committers and a bunch of automated wiki/issues/commit ones. How about creating a Dormant section on the LHS under Subprojects and kicking off a vote to put ORO, Regexp, Slide, Alexandria (I know, it's dead but simpler to put under Dormant for the moment), and ECS into it? The Incubator are going to be putting Agila into dormancy I think - so we can simply delete that link. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering Social behaviour: Bavarians can be extremely egalitarian and folksy. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria Most Franconians do not like to be called Bavarians. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of Slide project
I like Henri's way of framing this. Velocity is a good example of a mature project, for example. Has an active user list and committers who are present, if little actual day-to-day developer activity. WILL On 7/31/06, Henri Yandell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When no one argues with it being called dormant? :) (go circular logic). We've a bunch of meanings to cram into place. Obsolete is one term, sometimes due to JDK advances (ORO, Regexp, Commons-Logging) and sometimes because no one is really interested in the idea (ECS). The current status within Commons is that we've put things under Dormant if they hadn't had full releases. Inactive, yet released things have not been dealt with yet. Mature is very different - a mature project should still have an active user list and bugfixes being slowly made; at least someone should be listening. They don't however have any new development happening or likely to happen. For a mature project, I don't think we have to worry about labelling, we just need to make sure that people are still listening. Once the user mailing list is dead, that's when it's no longer mature and has become dead/dormant. You can argue about the dead/dormant labelling, but I think the easiest is to just go with Dormant for anything which is dead both in terms of user and dev lists. As time goes by we can refine that further. So * Mature projects - no change. Just something to look out for; a dead dev list and active user list with no one listening to bug reports being the bad state of a mature project. * Dormant projects - dead user list, dead dev list. Something becomes dormant by calling a vote on general@ suggesting it be moved to dormant. Forward the vote thread to the dev/user lists as a notification. Hen On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hm, how do you consider a project dormant? Is Velocity dormant? What I want to avoid is, that mature projects which are exactly where the committers want them to have and the one release a year, just bug fixes are put in the same bucket as projects that might be dormant or dead. Once a project is in that state, FUD is inevitable. We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code and dormant/dead code. Best regards Henning On Sat, 2006-07-29 at 13:25 -0400, Henri Yandell wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Oliver Zeigermann wrote: Hi, folks! Recently, worries about the state of the Slide project came up in private lists. It seems to be more or less unsupported and no community seems to exist any more. Most posts to the lists remain unanswered. Additionally, I have heard voices who consider Slide redundant now that Jackrabbit is a TLP. While this is not the thread to find out what has happened to the Slide project, we should think about what to do about it. If there is no one who feels responsible for the project or is willing to take responsibility we might put it into a dormant/unmaintained mode. This might give possible new users a warning. If new people came up who are ready to take the responsibility we might revive it. Additions? Opinions? Other voices? Am I completely wrong? Looking at mail-archives; Emails on the user list are 10% of what they were at the lists peak about 20 months ago. 40 odd so far this month, a dozen threads. Emails on the dev list are down to around 5% of what they were at its peak (20 months ago too). 30 emails this month. 4 threads from contributors, not committers and a bunch of automated wiki/issues/commit ones. How about creating a Dormant section on the LHS under Subprojects and kicking off a vote to put ORO, Regexp, Slide, Alexandria (I know, it's dead but simpler to put under Dormant for the moment), and ECS into it? The Incubator are going to be putting Agila into dormancy I think - so we can simply delete that link. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering Social behaviour: Bavarians can be extremely egalitarian and folksy. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria Most Franconians do not like to be called Bavarians. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Forio Business Simulations
Re: State of Slide project
Hm, how do you consider a project dormant? Is Velocity dormant? What I want to avoid is, that mature projects which are exactly where the committers want them to have and the one release a year, just bug fixes are put in the same bucket as projects that might be dormant or dead. Once a project is in that state, FUD is inevitable. We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code and dormant/dead code. Best regards Henning On Sat, 2006-07-29 at 13:25 -0400, Henri Yandell wrote: On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, Oliver Zeigermann wrote: Hi, folks! Recently, worries about the state of the Slide project came up in private lists. It seems to be more or less unsupported and no community seems to exist any more. Most posts to the lists remain unanswered. Additionally, I have heard voices who consider Slide redundant now that Jackrabbit is a TLP. While this is not the thread to find out what has happened to the Slide project, we should think about what to do about it. If there is no one who feels responsible for the project or is willing to take responsibility we might put it into a dormant/unmaintained mode. This might give possible new users a warning. If new people came up who are ready to take the responsibility we might revive it. Additions? Opinions? Other voices? Am I completely wrong? Looking at mail-archives; Emails on the user list are 10% of what they were at the lists peak about 20 months ago. 40 odd so far this month, a dozen threads. Emails on the dev list are down to around 5% of what they were at its peak (20 months ago too). 30 emails this month. 4 threads from contributors, not committers and a bunch of automated wiki/issues/commit ones. How about creating a Dormant section on the LHS under Subprojects and kicking off a vote to put ORO, Regexp, Slide, Alexandria (I know, it's dead but simpler to put under Dormant for the moment), and ECS into it? The Incubator are going to be putting Agila into dormancy I think - so we can simply delete that link. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen INTERMETA GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED]+49 9131 50 654 0 http://www.intermeta.de/ RedHat Certified Engineer -- Jakarta Turbine Development Linux, Java, perl, Solaris -- Consulting, Training, Engineering Social behaviour: Bavarians can be extremely egalitarian and folksy. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria Most Franconians do not like to be called Bavarians. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franconia - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of Slide project
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hm, We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code and dormant/dead code. Totally agree.. Though we have to figure out if slide is dormant or mature. I cannot judge if it is one or the other. Based on the stuff I read on it (eg jackrabbit-dev), it seems more like dormant then mature though. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of Slide project
Henri Yandell wrote: How about creating a Dormant section on the LHS under Subprojects and kicking off a vote to put ORO, Regexp, Slide, Alexandria (I know, it's dead but simpler to put under Dormant for the moment), and ECS into it? We should just zap alexandria, or say just like other projects that it is ex jakarta and point it to gump. Although maven saw it's first light there, the main development effort of maven happened in the turbine project anyway. I would be really surprised if people are still doing something with the original alexandria code. I tried to use it in 2000 and I think after that there wasn't much improvement (aside from gump) Another thing is we probably should close down some mailinglists of mature components and let discussion move to general (as you already proposed in the past if I remember correctly and which is already happening a bit). The Incubator are going to be putting Agila into dormancy I think - so we can simply delete that link. Did we already request that to the incubator ? Since incubator is expecting us to request it, as we are the sponsoring PMC. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: State of Slide project
On 7/29/06, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hm, We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code and dormant/dead code. Totally agree.. Though we have to figure out if slide is dormant or mature. I cannot judge if it is one or the other. Based on the stuff I read on it (eg jackrabbit-dev), it seems more like dormant then mature though. The issue of dormant and stable code is something we need to figure out throughout Apache. For example, I believe Excalibur counts as stable (if not dormant). Similar comments have been made about several other projects. Here are some of the issues about dormant/stable code: We want to avoid the SourceForge syndrome of a lot of inactive projects. I don't like the idea that a new user browsing Apache websites can't tell which ones are active and which ones are not. We need a pathway both into dormancy and out of dormancy. If a new group of developers want to pick up old code and run with it, what's the policy? Fork it? Put it through the incubator? While we have archive.apache.org, that's a little harsh for some of these projects. There still are users and there may be (as henning pointed out) occasional releases. At the same time, do these projects need the overhead of a full PMC and quarterly reporting to the board? My point is, I think we need to come up with a solution that can scale across Apache so that we can send a consistent message to our users. -- jaaron - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
