Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: boottime
On Thursday 13 November 2008, Matthias Bethke wrote: Hi Volker, on Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:29:22AM +0100, you wrote: there are people who know how to use a commandline and STILL want X. In fact out of 100 boots I want X 99 times - and I guess most people want X too. So just because you 'think' gentoo users don't like X, does not make it true at all. I agree having X in the default runlevel is a good idea for the vast majority of users, even the most CLI-savvy. But having it in the boot runlevel was a major PITA when SuSE started doing it and I had to manage some installations that used NIS and LDAP. We wanted a nice user list in kdm for students to click on, and it just doesn't work if *dm starts before ypbind. You can choose not to have the user list or live with the inconsistent broken look on first boot, or put X back in level 5. cheers, Matthias that might all be true for your setup, but for a single user desktop putting X in boot (in gentoo), can be a GOOD THING to do. Why wait for cron, hddtemp, nscd, metalog, postfix, cpufrequtils, smartd? It is all very non essential - this services can all savely start while you are typing in your password at that nice kdm prompt.
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: boottime
Hi Volker, on Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 11:29:22AM +0100, you wrote: there are people who know how to use a commandline and STILL want X. In fact out of 100 boots I want X 99 times - and I guess most people want X too. So just because you 'think' gentoo users don't like X, does not make it true at all. I agree having X in the default runlevel is a good idea for the vast majority of users, even the most CLI-savvy. But having it in the boot runlevel was a major PITA when SuSE started doing it and I had to manage some installations that used NIS and LDAP. We wanted a nice user list in kdm for students to click on, and it just doesn't work if *dm starts before ypbind. You can choose not to have the user list or live with the inconsistent broken look on first boot, or put X back in level 5. cheers, Matthias -- I prefer encrypted and signed messages. KeyID: FAC37665 Fingerprint: 8C16 3F0A A6FC DF0D 19B0 8DEF 48D9 1700 FAC3 7665 pgpfVRy7mWoTV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: boottime
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: *snip the rest because it is too long to read and usual duncan talk*. Let's be nice. I'll confess I often don't read everything duncan types, but it isn't like he spams the list such that you can't easily hit delete if you're not interested in his two emails per month. For those topics I'm interested in I find his perspective helpful. Even if I don't always agree with everything he posts there is often some useful stuff in there. I still use his CFLAGS 80% of the time. Regardless, your post would have stood just fine on its own without the personal attacks. I agree that booting into X is hardly the exception among gentoo users/devs/etc. If I were running a back-end server I'd absolutely refrain from booting into X (granted, such as server would DEFININTELY run NTP), but there's no sense having to use startx on a desktop unless you really do spend most of your time staring at a shell.
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: boottime
On Thursday 13 November 2008, Duncan wrote: Mark Haney [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:43:35 -0500: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I allready took everything out of my kernel but is there a big difference with modules or buildin's ? And X allready starts at boot. And why shouldn't I use genkernel? I don't know about moving X, but this is a thread I thought about starting yesterday so this is very timely. I'll look at X to see how things are affected. I'd suggest /not/ putting X in the boot runlevel, unless you're one of the It's not booted until I have a nice pretty GUI with a pointer to click stuff because I don't know how to use the command line folks, and on Gentoo at least, those folks should be comparatively rare, since Gentoo never has been and is not now designed for folks who aren't willing to be their own admins, including those scared of the command line. There's other distributions that are a better fit for people who prefer to let someone else do the command line and admin stuff. there are people who know how to use a commandline and STILL want X. In fact out of 100 boots I want X 99 times - and I guess most people want X too. So just because you 'think' gentoo users don't like X, does not make it true at all. Here, even tho I'm on an always-on Internet connection, I boot to initlevel 2, nonetwork, and without X as well. I start all services (including named and privoxy, which are normally of use only when the net's up, but don't require it; they start fast enough) except ntp/ntp- client and the network they depend on. This way, if I'm just doing local admin work, say backups, or doing a git-bisect/build/install/reboot cycle while debugging a kernel regression, I get a faster boot, and don't end up constantly connecting to the NTP servers I sync to, every time I reboot. and for most people such a runlevel would be very, very useless. Add to that that after a boot you have to log in as root and then switch to the right boot level - another 20seconds lost. *snip the rest because it is too long to read and usual duncan talk*. a) yes we know you have great hardware b) the topic was 'how to boot faster' and not 'how to make everything suck the duncan way'. Why fiddle around with breaky scripts, if kdm, gdm, whatever can do that for you? In a proven and stable way? And why booting into a useless runlevel (and a runlevel without network is useless, for doing root stuff - except everything is broken) and then start all the stuff you need manually? Sounds really, really stupid. c) putting X in boot is something even gentoo devs do. So not only stupid users are 'infected' with that meme d) command line and X are not exclusive. In fact - konsole beats the shit out io vts in every aspect. And I can have a lot more konsole sessions then vt's.
