Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
Had flu, sorry for wait... The Fedora is 2.4 kernel which I will migrate to today and if this doesn't solve my probs. I will swap my scsi controller. If I remove my tape, what should I do with it? (don't be rude) I have been obsessed with backups since the time when I lost 2/3 of a book and had to spend eternity recreating. Any 'better' removable storage device suggestions are welcome. Bearing in mind it needs to hold ~15Gb and a removable hd isn't feasible. Gav. On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 13:19 -0500, Drake Donahue wrote: in addition to lshw, there is also an lsscsi in portage appears initio and linux have ended their affair is not a second /third drive a cheaper faster safer backup than scsi tape? - Original Message - From: Brett Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 04:26:23PM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: This is my 1st Gentoo and the tape never worked on Debian. It does work on Redhat/Fedora but a tape's not a good reason to use this. Is the Redhat/Fedora system it works on a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel? -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list -- Dr Gavin Seddon School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL, U.K. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 10:23:56AM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: The Fedora is 2.4 kernel which I will migrate to today and if this doesn't solve my probs. I will swap my scsi controller. If I remove my tape, what should I do with it? (don't be rude) I have been obsessed with backups since the time when I lost 2/3 of a book and had to spend eternity recreating. Any 'better' removable storage device suggestions are welcome. Bearing in mind it needs to hold ~15Gb and a removable hd isn't feasible. Gav. I am not sure what you're saying about migrating and removing the tape. If you mean you're going to install Fedora (2.4 kernel), then I would assume your tape drive will work fine. It appears that your scsi card is not fully supported in the 2.5/2.6 kernel. If you're looking for alternate solutions to use with gentoo/2.6 kernel, then I would suggest investing in a new scsi card. The tape drive and cable should be fine (assuming proper maintenance of the tape drive). I personally have moved away from tape for smaller data sets ( 100GB ), as tape has some issues. First, you need to keep the tape head clean and second tape media has a limited useful life span. I have been burned a couple times by defective tape media in a restore situation. If an external hard drive is out, how about removeable hard drives? Remeber, the point of a backup is just to keep the data in multiple places. You can easily add a removeable drive cage to a system and purchase a couple extra caddy's. This way you can alternate between 2 or 3 removable hard drives for backup devices. Some removeable trays support key locks, in case you're worried about physical security. The method I use is the dar program in conjunction with cdrecord-prodvd. I create a full backup monthly, then create a weekly incremental against the full backup, and then daily backups against the weekly. This method only requires me to burn multiple dvd's once a month (as my monthly backup is in excess of 20GB). After that, I get away with one extra dvd per month (ymmv). For a recovery scenario, I may have to go through multiple restores to bring the system current, but thats a trade off I make to save on media. Those are just a few ideas. There are many other ways to backup data. I believe there is even an online service you can sign up for, and back up to their servers. IIRC you pay by the backup size in 10GB increments. Backup solutions are unique to each enviroment and use. Things to consider are; hard costs of backup hardware and media, time required to perform backup and does data have to be taken offline, ease and automation of backup, time required to restore data, ease and automation of restore, and physical storage of backup media (it doesn't do you any good to keep all your backups in the same building as the data if the building burns down). I am sure there are other factors too, this is just to give you an idea of things to think about when trying to come up with a new backup solution. Brett -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 09:05:06AM -0600, Brett Johnson wrote: On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 02:56:10PM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: Hi, I am not thinking of fedora as an option. I will go to the 2.4 kernel and get removable hdds in the future. Do I put the 2.4 name in '/etc/portage/package.keywords' and emerge the source then genkernel --menuconfig kernel? If you want to run the 2.4 kernel, you will need to switch to the x86 build, as 2.4 kernel is not supported in amd64. And to answer your question, if you do switch to x86, you need to change your /etc/make.profile to point to a 2.4 profile (ie /usr/portage/profiles/default-linux/x86/2005.1/2.4) -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
Will stick with 2.6 kernel and buy usb2 hard drive. On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 10:45 -0500, Drake Donahue wrote: usb2.0 external hard drive has to be feasible. less than a $100 for 80gb. nominal 60MB/sec. usb2.0\1394b external hard drive. less than $300 for 300 gb. nominal 60MB\80MB/sec. - Original Message - From: Brett Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 10:23:56AM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: The Fedora is 2.4 kernel which I will migrate to today and if this doesn't solve my probs. I will swap my scsi controller. If I remove my tape, what should I do with it? (don't be rude) I have been obsessed with backups since the time when I lost 2/3 of a book and had to spend eternity recreating. Any 'better' removable storage device suggestions are welcome. Bearing in mind it needs to hold ~15Gb and a removable hd isn't feasible. Gav. I am not sure what you're saying about migrating and removing the tape. If you mean you're going to install Fedora (2.4 kernel), then I would assume your tape drive will work fine. It appears that your scsi card is not fully supported in the 2.5/2.6 kernel. If you're looking for alternate solutions to use with gentoo/2.6 kernel, then I would suggest investing in a new scsi card. The tape drive and cable should be fine (assuming proper maintenance of the tape drive). I personally have moved away from tape for smaller data sets ( 100GB ), as tape has some issues. First, you need to keep the tape head clean and second tape media has a limited useful life span. I have been burned a couple times by defective tape media in a restore situation. If an external hard drive is out, how about removeable hard drives? Remeber, the point of a backup is just to keep the data in multiple places. You can easily add a removeable drive cage to a system and purchase a couple extra caddy's. This way you can alternate between 2 or 3 removable hard drives for backup devices. Some removeable trays support key locks, in case you're worried about physical security. The method I use is the dar program in conjunction with cdrecord-prodvd. I create a full backup monthly, then create a weekly incremental against the full backup, and then daily backups against the weekly. This method only requires me to burn multiple dvd's once a month (as my monthly backup is in excess of 20GB). After that, I get away with one extra dvd per month (ymmv). For a recovery scenario, I may have to go through multiple restores to bring the system current, but thats a trade off I make to save on media. Those are just a few ideas. There are many other ways to backup data. I believe there is even an online service you can sign up for, and back up to their servers. IIRC you pay by the backup size in 10GB increments. Backup solutions are unique to each enviroment and use. Things to consider are; hard costs of backup hardware and media, time required to perform backup and does data have to be taken offline, ease and automation of backup, time required to restore data, ease and automation of restore, and physical storage of backup media (it doesn't do you any good to keep all your backups in the same building as the data if the building burns down). I am sure there are other factors too, this is just to give you an idea of things to think about when trying to come up with a new backup solution. Brett -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list -- Dr Gavin Seddon School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL, U.K. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On 12/19/05, Drake Donahue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: usb2.0 external hard drive has to be feasible. less than a $100 for 80gb. nominal 60MB/sec. usb2.0\1394b external hard drive. less than $300 for 300 gb. nominal 60MB\80MB/sec. Using what hardware? I've used more than a dozen different models of USB2/1394 hard drives on 4 different PCs and have never seen one exceed 30MB/s in actual thoughput, although the same disks installed internally exceed 60MB/s. -Richard -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On 12/19/05, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/19/05, Drake Donahue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: usb2.0 external hard drive has to be feasible. less than a $100 for 80gb. nominal 60MB/sec. usb2.0\1394b external hard drive. less than $300 for 300 gb. nominal 60MB\80MB/sec. Using what hardware? I've used more than a dozen different models of USB2/1394 hard drives on 4 different PCs and have never seen one exceed 30MB/s in actual thoughput, although the same disks installed internally exceed 60MB/s. -Richard Yeah, you won't get much more than 30MB/S out of any 1394a drive on Linux, and even then you may have to set gap count by hand to get there. However, faster 1394 performance is available in Linux. Here's my 1394b drive: lightning ~ # hdparm -tT /dev/sdb /dev/sdb: Timing cached reads: 2252 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1125.44 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 172 MB in 3.03 seconds = 56.72 MB/sec lightning ~ # - Mark -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On 12/19/05, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there. However, faster 1394 performance is available in Linux. Here's my 1394b drive: Ah thanks, good to know. Making a mental note to make sure my next laptop has a 1394_b_ port, or to pickup a new cardbus card... -Richard -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On 12/19/05, Richard Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/19/05, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there. However, faster 1394 performance is available in Linux. Here's my 1394b drive: Ah thanks, good to know. Making a mental note to make sure my next laptop has a 1394_b_ port, or to pickup a new cardbus card... -Richard I'm sure they're out there somewhere but I've personalyl never seen a laptop with 1394b. Good luck whatever you do. cheers, Mark -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On Mon, 2005-12-12 at 18:36 -0800, Steve Herber wrote: Besides lspci and lsusb, I like lshw. sys-apps/lshw From the man page: lshw is a small tool to extract detailed information on the hardware configuration of the machine. It can report exact memory configuration, firmware version, mainboard configuration, CPU version and speed, cache configuration, bus speed, etc. on DMI-capable x86 or IA-64 systems and on some PowerPC machines (PowerMac G4 is known to work). Hi, 'lshw' not found. Also when I ran 'cdrecord -scanbus' ' cdrecord -scanbus Cdrecord-Clone 2.01 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2004 Jörg Schilling cdrecord: Warning: Running on Linux-2.6.14-gentoo-r2 cdrecord: There are unsettled issues with Linux-2.5 and newer. cdrecord: If you have unexpected problems, please try Linux-2.4 or Solaris. cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg*'. Cannot open SCSI driver. cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root. cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help'.' Any ideas Gav. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
Hi, lshw gave ' ' *-scsi UNCLAIMED description: SCSI storage controller product: 360P vendor: Initio Corporation physical id: 6 bus info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:06.0 version: 02 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: scsi bus_master resources: ioport:c400-c4ff iomemory:ff5fe000-ff5fefff irq:5' -- Dr Gavin Seddon School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL, U.K. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 02:56:38PM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: description: SCSI storage controller product: 360P vendor: Initio Corporation version: 02 http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/showproduct.php?product=50sort=8cat=310page=1 from 2003 where the author could not get it working in 2.5 kernel. What version kernel was your previous OS? -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 09:17 -0600, Brett Johnson wrote: On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 02:56:38PM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: description: SCSI storage controller product: 360P vendor: Initio Corporation version: 02 http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/showproduct.php?product=50sort=8cat=310page=1 from 2003 where the author could not get it working in 2.5 kernel. What version kernel was your previous OS? This is my 1st Gentoo and the tape never worked on Debian. It does work on Redhat/Fedora but a tape's not a good reason to use this. My kernel is 'kernel-genkernel-x86_64-2.6.14-gentoo-r2' -- Dr Gavin Seddon School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL, U.K. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
in addition to lshw, there is also an lsscsi in portage appears initio and linux have ended their affair is not a second /third drive a cheaper faster safer backup than scsi tape? - Original Message - From: Brett Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gentoo-amd64@lists.gentoo.org Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 04:26:23PM +, Gavin Seddon wrote: This is my 1st Gentoo and the tape never worked on Debian. It does work on Redhat/Fedora but a tape's not a good reason to use this. Is the Redhat/Fedora system it works on a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel? -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
I thought comments should be posted at the top of the rply so users don't have to scroll thru' endless postings to reach the necessary 'bit'. Also, No, I cannot ping this machine when it locks-up. I tried this first. I will build kernels with both kinds of board to see which works. On Mon, 2005-12-12 at 04:57 -0700, Duncan wrote: Gavin Seddon posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:50:56 +: Is there a way of determining the board type, other than opening the box and removing the card. I don't have it's original box. Thanks. On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 07:39 -0600, Brett Johnson wrote: What model initio board do you have? There are two different initio drivers, and the one called initio is for the 9100 series chipset. It's possible loading the wrong chipset could lock up the pc, or at least the console. When the console locks up, I like to go to a different terminal (pc) and see if I can ping the frozen pc. If so, then try to ssh in (assuming ssh is running) and see if I can shut it down remotely. Annoying very. Q: Top posting is...? (Of course, note that you should trim quotes to the context to which you are replying as well, which top-quoting, as opposed to top-posting, encourages. If you would have trimmed what you were quoting to the above, sufficient to establish context, then I would not have needed to do it for you, here, and the context would have been sufficiently established so all I would have needed to do would have been to post my reply, plus possibly trimming out deeper nested quoting, if you had included it, since it's no longer necessary to establish the context to which I'm now replying.) To answer your question, try lspci (ls for the PCI bus). If the output isn't verbose enough to give you the detail you need, try lspci -v (for verbose). It's a /very/ handy program to keep in your virtual toolbox, particularly if you don't fancy opening up your box all the time to read stuff off of the various chips and cards, let alone that even doing that wouldn't directly give you the same level of detail that lspci -v does. lspci is part of pciutils, in case you don't already have it merged, but you likely do, at least if you have either alsa-utils or hotplug merged. FWIW, there's also a parallel lsusb, part of (no surprise) usbutils. =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- Dr Gavin Seddon School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL, U.K. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
Besides lspci and lsusb, I like lshw. sys-apps/lshw From the man page: lshw is a small tool to extract detailed information on the hardware configuration of the machine. It can report exact memory configuration, firmware version, mainboard configuration, CPU version and speed, cache configuration, bus speed, etc. on DMI-capable x86 or IA-64 systems and on some PowerPC machines (PowerMac G4 is known to work). It currently supports DMI (x86 and IA-64 only), OpenFirmware device tree (PowerPC only), PCI/AGP, CPUID (x86), IDE/ATA/ATAPI, PCMCIA (only tested on x86), SCSI and USB. How much am I supposed to trim from the quoted article??? Steve Herber[EMAIL PROTECTED] work: 206-221-7262 Security Engineer, UW Medicine, IT Services home: 425-454-2399 On Mon, 12 Dec 2005, Duncan wrote: Gavin Seddon posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:50:56 +: Is there a way of determining the board type, other than opening the box and removing the card. I don't have it's original box. Thanks. On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 07:39 -0600, Brett Johnson wrote: What model initio board do you have? There are two different initio drivers, and the one called initio is for the 9100 series chipset. It's possible loading the wrong chipset could lock up the pc, or at least the console. When the console locks up, I like to go to a different terminal (pc) and see if I can ping the frozen pc. If so, then try to ssh in (assuming ssh is running) and see if I can shut it down remotely. To answer your question, try lspci (ls for the PCI bus). If the output isn't verbose enough to give you the detail you need, try lspci -v (for verbose). It's a /very/ handy program to keep in your virtual toolbox, particularly if you don't fancy opening up your box all the time to read stuff off of the various chips and cards, let alone that even doing that wouldn't directly give you the same level of detail that lspci -v does. lspci is part of pciutils, in case you don't already have it merged, but you likely do, at least if you have either alsa-utils or hotplug merged. FWIW, there's also a parallel lsusb, part of (no surprise) usbutils. =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: initio seen, mt -f doesn't work
Yes /dev/st0 is there. How should I start the device, as far as I remember I built all scsi modules into the kernel. Gavin. On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 07:40 -0700, Duncan wrote: find /dev/ -name st0 -- Dr Gavin Seddon School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences University of Manchester Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL, U.K. -- gentoo-amd64@gentoo.org mailing list
