Re: [gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[Alec Warner]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Ben de Groot  wrote:
> Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>> On 21:30 Mon 26 Jan , AllenJB wrote:
>>> The Gentoo PR Project currently appears to be having difficulties with
>>> keeping up, both with the newsletters and announcements, and I believe
>>> this is currently reflecting badly on the project as a whole.
>>
>> It's easy to complain and harder to take action to actually improve
>> things. From my point of view, it seems like you've got an awful lot of
>> time for the former and none for the latter.
>>
>> Regarding the parts of PR besides the newsletter and events, let me know
>> once you've done something useful like do the work to close a few PR
>> bugs, and we'll talk then.
>>
> Allen has real heart for Gentoo and is very active on the forums. He
> doesn't deserve to be brushed of like this. He is willing to help, he is
> thinking with us and coming up with ideas about how to improve the
> distro we all love to use. It is this kind of dismissive behavior that
> gives us the name of being arrogant and difficult to work with, at which
> point we loose a lot of goodwill from users who are (were) willing to
> help. I know you better than that, Donnie. So I'll write it off as a
> temporary lapse of judgement.
>
> There is valid critique on the slow functioning of PR, and we should try
> to work this out in our mutual benefit. There is room for improvement,
> and I'm happy steps are already being taken into that direction (index2
> especially). Let's see how we can speed things up and spread the load.
> Having more people join the PR team would be a logical step, in my opinion.

Knowing something is broken is one thing (I think we all agree PR
could be better).

Knowing why it is broken is another.  Trying to come up with a
solution when you don't even know the scope of the problem is
generally a bad idea.  I would be more willing to accept advice and
criticism from someone who was on PR for 30 days and then could
provide some specific feedback on what works and what doesn't.  I
think that is partially what Donnie is trying to communicate with his
comment.

So I say again:

Lack of content?
GuideXML makes it hard to post?
Too few people with posting privs?
Other perceived problems?

A long time ago I suggested some sort of pr-onduty role where
basically for a set period you are the prime pr contact and if someone
has news it is your job to review and post it or reject it.  This was
never implemented; but may be a good idea if we are limited by commit
access.  One of the main problems with posting to an alias is that you
can always not reply and it will become someone else's problem(TM)
until no one replies and the message is ignored.

I for one almost never read pr@ because it is mostly spam and it is
difficult to locate useful requests from crap.  It may be useful to
tag important items with NEWS ITEM or UPDATE or something.

If GuideXML makes it hard to post we can perhaps develop a technical solution.

If there is not enough content I'm sure we can brainstorm ideas on
what we could do (index2 covers this area pretty well IMHO).

But mostly I want to address concrete problems.

-Alec

>
> Cheers,
> --
> Ben de Groot
> Gentoo Linux developer (lxde, media, qt, desktop-misc)
> Gentoo Linux Release Engineering PR liaison
> __
>
> yng...@gentoo.org
> http://ben.liveforge.org/
> irc://chat.freenode.net/#gentoo-media
> irc://irc.oftc.net/#lxde
> __
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[Ben de Groot]

Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 21:30 Mon 26 Jan , AllenJB wrote:
>> The Gentoo PR Project currently appears to be having difficulties with 
>> keeping up, both with the newsletters and announcements, and I believe 
>> this is currently reflecting badly on the project as a whole.
> 
> It's easy to complain and harder to take action to actually improve 
> things. From my point of view, it seems like you've got an awful lot of 
> time for the former and none for the latter.
> 
> Regarding the parts of PR besides the newsletter and events, let me know 
> once you've done something useful like do the work to close a few PR 
> bugs, and we'll talk then.
> 
Allen has real heart for Gentoo and is very active on the forums. He
doesn't deserve to be brushed of like this. He is willing to help, he is
thinking with us and coming up with ideas about how to improve the
distro we all love to use. It is this kind of dismissive behavior that
gives us the name of being arrogant and difficult to work with, at which
point we loose a lot of goodwill from users who are (were) willing to
help. I know you better than that, Donnie. So I'll write it off as a
temporary lapse of judgement.

There is valid critique on the slow functioning of PR, and we should try
to work this out in our mutual benefit. There is room for improvement,
and I'm happy steps are already being taken into that direction (index2
especially). Let's see how we can speed things up and spread the load.
Having more people join the PR team would be a logical step, in my opinion.

Cheers,
-- 
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (lxde, media, qt, desktop-misc)
Gentoo Linux Release Engineering PR liaison
__

yng...@gentoo.org
http://ben.liveforge.org/
irc://chat.freenode.net/#gentoo-media
irc://irc.oftc.net/#lxde
__

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: PR Project Activity Issues

[Josh Saddler]

Ryan Hill wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:47:04 -0800
> Alec Warner  wrote:
> 
>> Is GuideXML in fact a barrier for submission (do we get complaints
>> about it?)
> 
> I seem to remember doc/newsletter people stating on multiple occasions
> that they're happy to accept plain text submissions (feel free to beat
> me if i hallucinated it).


docs team != GMN*, but yes, we're happy to take submissions in plain
text form. However, it does take longer to GuideXMLify an article when
readying the newsletter than if we get one already in XML; then it's
just drop-in.


* (puts on GDP hat) Actually, we don't mind getting plain text docs,
either, since we too can GuideXMLify those submissions.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[Donnie Berkholz]

On 21:30 Mon 26 Jan , AllenJB wrote:
> The Gentoo PR Project currently appears to be having difficulties with 
> keeping up, both with the newsletters and announcements, and I believe 
> this is currently reflecting badly on the project as a whole.

It's easy to complain and harder to take action to actually improve 
things. From my point of view, it seems like you've got an awful lot of 
time for the former and none for the latter.

Regarding the parts of PR besides the newsletter and events, let me know 
once you've done something useful like do the work to close a few PR 
bugs, and we'll talk then.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com


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[gentoo-dev] Re: PR Project Activity Issues

[Ryan Hill]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:47:04 -0800
Alec Warner  wrote:

> Is GuideXML in fact a barrier for submission (do we get complaints
> about it?)

I seem to remember doc/newsletter people stating on multiple occasions
that they're happy to accept plain text submissions (feel free to beat
me if i hallucinated it).


-- 
gcc-porting,  by design, by neglect
treecleaner,  for a fact or just for effect
wxwidgets @ gentoo EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662


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Re: [gentoo-dev] slot deps in package.mask and profiles

[Jeremy Olexa]

Alec Warner wrote:

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Jeremy Olexa  wrote:

Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Donnie Berkholz wrote:

On 21:04 Sun 25 Jan , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:25:44 -0100
"Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"  wrote:

I talked to Zac  earlier in #gentoo-portage about adding an
entry to package.mask for KDE-4.2.0 using slot deps. Thomas
 and Patrick  raised the concern we might
need profile eapis and that PMS nailed p.mask to EAPI-0.
Zac confirmed that the first stable version to support slot deps in p.
mask was 2.1.3.16, that it was stabled in bug 197165 - 14 months ago
- - and that the first stages to include it were the 2008.0 stages.
Thus, can we finally give the ok to use slot deps in package.mask? Can
we also give the ok to use it everywhere in all 2008.0 and later
profiles/ ?

The Council approved profile eapi files for use a while ago (can't
remember when -- http://council.gentoo.org/ isn't being updated), and

Last month's meeting


they discussed timeframes for using newer EAPIs then too. Did you see
that discussion?

"An EAPI=0 profile always needs to exist so that users with old portage
can upgrade. Otherwise they will sync and have no valid profile available so
cannot emerge a new version of portage.

"Decision: Approved. Existing stable profiles must use EAPI=0. New or dev
^
profiles can use higher EAPIs.

Acoording to this we will never be able to use slot deps in package.mask
as it's a global file. Given my first mail, can we agree to make EAPI-1
the minimum EAPI for files under profiles/ ? Can we also create a rule
on how / when to update the minimum EAPI in profiles/ ?

So, portage that is unaware of EAPI-1 will just happily ignore the atom and
move on..? In that case:

Please no! It is hard enough for a base 2007.0 install to be upgraded due to
the "portage & bash blocker" (and other issues) - We need to wait much
longer for an EAPI bump in a non-new profile (if ever, as Brian Harring
suggests - I agree).

I know this might seem as a hassle to you but there *are* other entities
that provide a base 2007.0 install. Who knows how every
group/entity/company/etc use Gentoo.. While I agree that it isn't
necessarily our problem, however, we shouldn't make it harder for them or
anyone that has a 2007 base install. (We still mirror the 2007.0 stages[1],
2007.0 cds are available[2] for purchase, etc[3] etc[4]).


Dude, even people like Ubuntu/Canonical don't support stuff that old
(current LTS is April 2008).

The tree is now; see the date?  It's 2009, not 2007.

One of the biggest problems Gentoo has is backwards compatibility and
legacy stuff; it is the nightmare of every project and there has to be
a point where you say 'tough.'  So make a decision, announce it widely
that on X date the tree will just break for users; write up a FAQ on
how to upgrade past it, and then make the changes.


2008.0 was released on Jul 6 2008[1]. So, you think that after 6 months, 
it is time to say "tough"? Sorry, I don't agree.


[1]: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/release/2008.0/index.xml#doc_chap2



Realize once again that the tree was not designed very well and it has
issues on a number of levels and it can't all be engineered around;
and for progress to be made you will *have to break existing stuff*.


IMO, it would be a dis-service to bump EAPI in a non-new profile for our
user-base. I don't see any Pro's besides "easier to type" =/ So, I think the
Council decision is appropriate.


You seriously see no benefits to EAPI 1 or 2 in profiles?  What about
slot deps? use deps? these things have been core feature requests
since 2003; surely you don't think they are useless to our users?


No, I didn't say that at all, *sigh*




-Jeremy

[1]: http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/x86/2007.0/
[2]: http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?lst=&id_cate=20&id_distro=12
[3]: http://lylix.net/linux-vps-plans
[4]: http://www.linode.com/faq.cfm

Re: [gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[Alec Warner]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 1:30 PM, AllenJB  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The Gentoo PR Project currently appears to be having difficulties with
> keeping up, both with the newsletters and announcements, and I believe this
> is currently reflecting badly on the project as a whole. These issues are
> apparently holding back some key changes to the Gentoo website to make it
> easier to navigate and help the project appear more active than is reflected
> by the current front page.
>
> If the project needs more hands, and these aren't appearing, then perhaps
> more should be done to advertise the positions and exactly what they entail
> (I would suggest announcements on the forums, with specifics on who to talk
> to for those interested).
>
> The newsletter has been having issues for some time, and this makes me
> wonder if the amount of effort required is excessive for the value obtained
> from those efforts. While the GuideXML system Gentoo uses for newsletters,
> etc is nice, does it require too much time and effort to convert articles to
> GuideXML and get the newsletters published?

So you go on to describe issues with thew Newsletter.

What kind of issues?
Is there not enough content?
Is GuideXML in fact a barrier for submission (do we get complaints about it?)
Are there insufficient translators?
Are the editors not posting content quick enough?
Are the editors editing properly?
Are there enough posters in general?

>
> Alternative setups for the newsletter could be to either go text-only or
> web-only.
>
> Text-only would involved producing a text-only email, which is then copied
> and pasted onto the website for archiving. This would obviously require
> minimal formatting work.

Ok, but if the problems are with finding material; changing how the
material is posted will not help.

>
> My idea for a web-only setup would require more initial work, but I think
> would make maintenance much easier once set up. The Gentoo Newsletter would
> become a separate website, not based on GuideXML, but on a standard CMS.
> Instead of having set release dates (weekly or monthly), articles would just
> be released as soon as they are produced.

Why does a new shiny CMS enable this?  Certainly we could provide
access to news/ to a broader audience?
You seem to think the target audience cannot author GuideXML though.

>
> The regular features like bug stats, GLSAs, developer changes could be
> easily generated automatically (I suspect almost all of those are mostly
> done automatically anyway - adapting such scripts for a CMS that can publish
> from RSS feeds should be relatively trivial) and would appear on the website
> without any intervention.

This is covered by index2; so I'll ignore it ;)

>
> As above, articles would be published as and when they are ready. Instead of
> just 1 editor, this website-based setup would be able to have multiple
> editors with little collaboration required (just to mark submissions as
> being worked on when an editor picks them up, which should be easily doable
> using a ticket-based system (bugzilla) or mailing list).

Does the current news have only 1 editor?  I am on PR but I tend not
to commit news or approve things.

I would propose an alternative alias or subject tag that will single
your post request out from the other trash that gets sent to pr@; that
way it might actually receive some attention.

>
> An advantage, as I see it, of the website-based system is that it could be
> expanded to include features not currently easily possible with the current
> newsletter - categorized archiving of articles (not just be publish date)
> and user comments. While I haven't looked, it's probably possible to even
> find a CMS which includes email notification of new articles as a feature.

This is a bad sell; we could certainly expand the current one as well
(with cool new features!) except we have no staff for that (in either
system).  Talk about what you will do; not what you plan to do in the
nefarious future when you have copious amounts of free time ;)

>
>
> AllenJB
>
> PS. This did start out as a submission for a council meeting agenda item,
> but I couldn't stop writing.
>
> PPS. To preempt the obvious suggestion: I do intend to become a developer, I
> just don't feel I have the time to commit right now. That'll hopefully
> change in ~6 months once I've finished uni and have a job.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-dev] slot deps in package.mask and profiles

[Alec Warner]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Jeremy Olexa  wrote:
> Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
>>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>>>
>>> On 21:04 Sun 25 Jan , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

 On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:25:44 -0100
 "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"  wrote:
>
> I talked to Zac  earlier in #gentoo-portage about adding an
> entry to package.mask for KDE-4.2.0 using slot deps. Thomas
>  and Patrick  raised the concern we might
> need profile eapis and that PMS nailed p.mask to EAPI-0.
> Zac confirmed that the first stable version to support slot deps in p.
> mask was 2.1.3.16, that it was stabled in bug 197165 - 14 months ago
> - - and that the first stages to include it were the 2008.0 stages.
> Thus, can we finally give the ok to use slot deps in package.mask? Can
> we also give the ok to use it everywhere in all 2008.0 and later
> profiles/ ?

 The Council approved profile eapi files for use a while ago (can't
 remember when -- http://council.gentoo.org/ isn't being updated), and
>>>
>>> Last month's meeting
>>>
 they discussed timeframes for using newer EAPIs then too. Did you see
 that discussion?
>>>
>>> "An EAPI=0 profile always needs to exist so that users with old portage
>>> can upgrade. Otherwise they will sync and have no valid profile available so
>>> cannot emerge a new version of portage.
>>>
>>> "Decision: Approved. Existing stable profiles must use EAPI=0. New or dev
>>> ^
>>> profiles can use higher EAPIs.
>>
>> Acoording to this we will never be able to use slot deps in package.mask
>> as it's a global file. Given my first mail, can we agree to make EAPI-1
>> the minimum EAPI for files under profiles/ ? Can we also create a rule
>> on how / when to update the minimum EAPI in profiles/ ?
>
> So, portage that is unaware of EAPI-1 will just happily ignore the atom and
> move on..? In that case:
>
> Please no! It is hard enough for a base 2007.0 install to be upgraded due to
> the "portage & bash blocker" (and other issues) - We need to wait much
> longer for an EAPI bump in a non-new profile (if ever, as Brian Harring
> suggests - I agree).
>
> I know this might seem as a hassle to you but there *are* other entities
> that provide a base 2007.0 install. Who knows how every
> group/entity/company/etc use Gentoo.. While I agree that it isn't
> necessarily our problem, however, we shouldn't make it harder for them or
> anyone that has a 2007 base install. (We still mirror the 2007.0 stages[1],
> 2007.0 cds are available[2] for purchase, etc[3] etc[4]).

Dude, even people like Ubuntu/Canonical don't support stuff that old
(current LTS is April 2008).

The tree is now; see the date?  It's 2009, not 2007.

One of the biggest problems Gentoo has is backwards compatibility and
legacy stuff; it is the nightmare of every project and there has to be
a point where you say 'tough.'  So make a decision, announce it widely
that on X date the tree will just break for users; write up a FAQ on
how to upgrade past it, and then make the changes.

Realize once again that the tree was not designed very well and it has
issues on a number of levels and it can't all be engineered around;
and for progress to be made you will *have to break existing stuff*.

>
> IMO, it would be a dis-service to bump EAPI in a non-new profile for our
> user-base. I don't see any Pro's besides "easier to type" =/ So, I think the
> Council decision is appropriate.

You seriously see no benefits to EAPI 1 or 2 in profiles?  What about
slot deps? use deps? these things have been core feature requests
since 2003; surely you don't think they are useless to our users?

>
> -Jeremy
>
> [1]: http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/x86/2007.0/
> [2]: http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?lst=&id_cate=20&id_distro=12
> [3]: http://lylix.net/linux-vps-plans
> [4]: http://www.linode.com/faq.cfm
>
>>
>>> "Ref:
>>> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_930f58fcebcbbcbe523c001f2c825179.xml";
>>>
>>>
>>> I haven't finished & posted last month's summary
>>>  yet because of a
>>> long holiday vacation and lots of work deadlines after returning. I'll get
>>> all that stuff updated this week.
>>>
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[Douglas Anderson]

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:30 AM, AllenJB  wrote:
> My idea for a web-only setup would require more initial work, but I think
> would make maintenance much easier once set up. The Gentoo Newsletter would
> become a separate website, not based on GuideXML, but on a standard CMS.
> Instead of having set release dates (weekly or monthly), articles would just
> be released as soon as they are produced.
>
> The regular features like bug stats, GLSAs, developer changes could be
> easily generated automatically (I suspect almost all of those are mostly
> done automatically anyway - adapting such scripts for a CMS that can publish
> from RSS feeds should be relatively trivial) and would appear on the website
> without any intervention.

Allan, firstly I really like and appreciate that you're interested in
Gentoo PR. You're not the only one concerned about it :) I also tried
to help out with the newsletter a few months ago... not the best
experience.

However. Besides bugstats and dev join/retires, gentoo.org/index2.xml
has already implemented everything you're talking about. It gets news
as soon as it's written, has GLSAs and package additions generated
automatically (could add removals), plus the blog roll is such a great
step toward showing the active side of gentoo.

What would be _really_ cool is if the WYSISYG guideXML editor
quantumsummers is (was?) working on allowed users and devs alike to
submit news stories to the PR team.

Anyway, It sounds like your idea is essentially getting rid of the
newsletter and adding more automatic stats to the front page. No need
to create a new page with a different CMS.

Thoughts?

-Doug

Re: [gentoo-dev] slot deps in package.mask and profiles

[Jeremy Olexa]

Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Donnie Berkholz wrote:

On 21:04 Sun 25 Jan , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:25:44 -0100
"Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"  wrote:

I talked to Zac  earlier in #gentoo-portage about adding an
entry to package.mask for KDE-4.2.0 using slot deps. Thomas
 and Patrick  raised the concern we might
need profile eapis and that PMS nailed p.mask to EAPI-0.
Zac confirmed that the first stable version to support slot deps in p.
mask was 2.1.3.16, that it was stabled in bug 197165 - 14 months ago
- - and that the first stages to include it were the 2008.0 stages.
Thus, can we finally give the ok to use slot deps in package.mask? Can
we also give the ok to use it everywhere in all 2008.0 and later
profiles/ ?

The Council approved profile eapi files for use a while ago (can't
remember when -- http://council.gentoo.org/ isn't being updated), and

Last month's meeting


they discussed timeframes for using newer EAPIs then too. Did you see
that discussion?
"An EAPI=0 profile always needs to exist so that users with old portage 
can upgrade. Otherwise they will sync and have no valid profile 
available so cannot emerge a new version of portage.


"Decision: Approved. Existing stable profiles must use EAPI=0. New or dev 
 ^

profiles can use higher EAPIs.


Acoording to this we will never be able to use slot deps in package.mask
as it's a global file. Given my first mail, can we agree to make EAPI-1
the minimum EAPI for files under profiles/ ? Can we also create a rule
on how / when to update the minimum EAPI in profiles/ ?


So, portage that is unaware of EAPI-1 will just happily ignore the atom 
and move on..? In that case:


Please no! It is hard enough for a base 2007.0 install to be upgraded 
due to the "portage & bash blocker" (and other issues) - We need to wait 
much longer for an EAPI bump in a non-new profile (if ever, as Brian 
Harring suggests - I agree).


I know this might seem as a hassle to you but there *are* other entities 
that provide a base 2007.0 install. Who knows how every 
group/entity/company/etc use Gentoo.. While I agree that it isn't 
necessarily our problem, however, we shouldn't make it harder for them 
or anyone that has a 2007 base install. (We still mirror the 2007.0 
stages[1], 2007.0 cds are available[2] for purchase, etc[3] etc[4]).


IMO, it would be a dis-service to bump EAPI in a non-new profile for our 
user-base. I don't see any Pro's besides "easier to type" =/ So, I think 
the Council decision is appropriate.


-Jeremy

[1]: http://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/x86/2007.0/
[2]: http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?lst=&id_cate=20&id_distro=12
[3]: http://lylix.net/linux-vps-plans
[4]: http://www.linode.com/faq.cfm




"Ref: 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_930f58fcebcbbcbe523c001f2c825179.xml";


I haven't finished & posted last month's summary 
 yet because of a 
long holiday vacation and lots of work deadlines after returning. I'll 
get all that stuff updated this week.

Re: [gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[Jesus Rivero]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

AllenJB wrote:
| Hi all,
|
| My idea for a web-only setup would require more initial work, but I 
think would make maintenance much easier once set up. The Gentoo 
Newsletter would become a separate website, not based on GuideXML, but 
on a standard CMS. Instead of having set release dates (weekly or 
monthly), articles would just be released as soon as they are produced.

|
+1

~  I really like this idea. This could also add more dynamism to the 
Gentoo Project from the end-user's  point of view. Count me in if you 
need help setting things up!.

|
| AllenJB
|
| PS. This did start out as a submission for a council meeting agenda 
item, but I couldn't stop writing.

|
| PPS. To preempt the obvious suggestion: I do intend to become a 
developer, I just don't feel I have the time to commit right now. 
That'll hopefully change in ~6 months once I've finished uni and have a job.

|

Jesús Rivero
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [gentoo-dev] slot deps in package.mask and profiles

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 21:04 Sun 25 Jan , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:25:44 -0100
>> "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"  wrote:
>>> I talked to Zac  earlier in #gentoo-portage about adding an
>>> entry to package.mask for KDE-4.2.0 using slot deps. Thomas
>>>  and Patrick  raised the concern we might
>>> need profile eapis and that PMS nailed p.mask to EAPI-0.
>>> Zac confirmed that the first stable version to support slot deps in p.
>>> mask was 2.1.3.16, that it was stabled in bug 197165 - 14 months ago
>>> - - and that the first stages to include it were the 2008.0 stages.
>>> Thus, can we finally give the ok to use slot deps in package.mask? Can
>>> we also give the ok to use it everywhere in all 2008.0 and later
>>> profiles/ ?
>> The Council approved profile eapi files for use a while ago (can't
>> remember when -- http://council.gentoo.org/ isn't being updated), and
> 
> Last month's meeting
> 
>> they discussed timeframes for using newer EAPIs then too. Did you see
>> that discussion?
> 
> "An EAPI=0 profile always needs to exist so that users with old portage 
> can upgrade. Otherwise they will sync and have no valid profile 
> available so cannot emerge a new version of portage.
> 
> "Decision: Approved. Existing stable profiles must use EAPI=0. New or dev 
>  ^
> profiles can use higher EAPIs.

Acoording to this we will never be able to use slot deps in package.mask
as it's a global file. Given my first mail, can we agree to make EAPI-1
the minimum EAPI for files under profiles/ ? Can we also create a rule
on how / when to update the minimum EAPI in profiles/ ?

> "Ref: 
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_930f58fcebcbbcbe523c001f2c825179.xml";
> 
> 
> I haven't finished & posted last month's summary 
>  yet because of a 
> long holiday vacation and lots of work deadlines after returning. I'll 
> get all that stuff updated this week.
> 

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / SPARC / KDE
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[gentoo-dev] Fw: Invitación a Congreso de Software Libre y Tecnología Libre Republica Dominicana

[Ferris McCormick]

I'm passing this on to gentoo-dev because that should reach anyone who
might be interested in this.  I don't know if the Dominican Republic is
convenient for anyone to reach, but this might be of interest to
someone.

Regards,
Ferris


Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:26:15 -0400
From: Socrates Piña 
To: trust...@gentoo.org
Subject: Fwd: Invitación a Congreso de Software Libre y Tecnología
Libre Republica Dominicana


Señores

Fundacion Gentoo


La comunidad seguidora de la filosofia del software libre, en Republica
Dominicana, esta organizando un Congreso sobre ; " Software libre -
educacion y conocimiento libre.", dedicados a toda la nacion con el
aupicio de las universidades Dominicana.




Este congreso contara con la participacion de lideres mundiales del
software y conocimiento libre y esperamos representacion de: Europa,
Sur America, America, etc en el mismo. y de toda la juventud
universitaria dominicana.



A los organizadores de este evento, nos gustaria poder contar con su
colaboracion y participacion en el mismo. Por ellos le invitamos a
participar con un stand, donde puedan exponer sus productos y desarrollo
tecnologicos usando software libre. Como es conocido en el mundo del
software libre, ustedes ya tienen equipos a la ventas con sistema
operativos libres a nivel de pc y ademas con sus grandes servidores.


Es esta una gran oportunidad, para poder demostrar a la comunidad de
usuario de software libre, la forma eficiente en que nuestro sistema
operativo corre en su hardware y de llegar a nuestra comunidad.

http://elnuevodiario.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=136186
la direccion adjunta es sobre la publicacion periodistica de la
realizacion del evento que sera en el mes de septiembre del 2009, del
14 al 17 y esperamos tener una pronta repuesta.



 Atentamente,



 Prof. Dionisio Grullón Heredia Licdo.
 Socrates Piña Calderón

Organizador
Organizador



-- 
Licdo. Sócrates A. De js. Piña Calderón
Abogado - Notario
Telfs: (809)532-5479
(809)481-4912




-- 
Licdo. Sócrates A. De js. Piña Calderón
Abogado - Notario
Telfs: (809)532-5479
(809)481-4912


--
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) 
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)



	
	
	
	

SeñoresFundacion Gentoo 



	
	
	
	

La comunidad seguidora de
la filosofia del software libre, en Republica Dominicana, esta
organizando un Congreso sobre ; " Software libre - educacion y
conocimiento libre.", dedicados a toda la nacion con el aupicio
de las universidades Dominicana.
Este congreso
contara con la participacion de lideres mundiales del software y
conocimiento libre y esperamos representacion de: Europa, Sur
America, America, etc en el mismo. y de toda la juventud
universitaria dominicana.
A los
organizadores de este evento, nos gustaria poder contar con su
colaboracion y participacion en el mismo. Por ellos le invitamos a
participar con un stand, donde puedan exponer sus productos y
desarrollo tecnologicos usando software libre. Como es conocido en el
mundo del software libre, ustedes ya tienen equipos a la ventas con
sistema operativos libres a nivel de pc y ademas con sus grandes
servidores.
Es esta una gran
oportunidad, para poder demostrar a la comunidad de usuario de
software libre, la forma eficiente en que nuestro sistema operativo
corre en su hardware y de llegar a nuestra
comunidad.http://elnuevodiario.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=136186la
direccion adjunta es sobre la publicacion periodistica de la
realizacion del evento que sera en el mes de septiembre del 2009, del
14 al 17 y esperamos tener una pronta repuesta.




Atentamente, 





Prof. Dionisio Grullón
Heredia 			Licdo. Socrates Piña Calderón
Organizador  		Organizador
-- Licdo. Sócrates A. De js. Piña CalderónAbogado - NotarioTelfs: (809)532-5479         (809)481-4912
-- Licdo. Sócrates A. De js. Piña CalderónAbogado - NotarioTelfs: (809)532-5479         (809)481-4912


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Re: [gentoo-dev] slot deps in package.mask and profiles

[Brian Harring]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 09:28:00AM -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> "Decision: Approved. Existing stable profiles must use EAPI=0. New or dev 
> profiles can use higher EAPIs.
> 
> "Ref: 
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_930f58fcebcbbcbe523c001f2c825179.xml";

I'm not saying it's exactly fun for profile developers, but if y'all 
are after avoiding users syncing and suddenly having their profile 
unusable the rule really should be "once a profile node is stabilized, 
its EAPI is locked" rather then "existing stable profiles must use 
EAPI=0".  The current decree protects older portage users, the former 
decree blocks the scenario from ever reoccuring.

Potentially overkill- thoughts?
~brian



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[gentoo-dev] PR Project Activity Issues

[AllenJB]

Hi all,

The Gentoo PR Project currently appears to be having difficulties with 
keeping up, both with the newsletters and announcements, and I believe 
this is currently reflecting badly on the project as a whole. These 
issues are apparently holding back some key changes to the Gentoo 
website to make it easier to navigate and help the project appear more 
active than is reflected by the current front page.


If the project needs more hands, and these aren't appearing, then 
perhaps more should be done to advertise the positions and exactly what 
they entail (I would suggest announcements on the forums, with specifics 
on who to talk to for those interested).


The newsletter has been having issues for some time, and this makes me 
wonder if the amount of effort required is excessive for the value 
obtained from those efforts. While the GuideXML system Gentoo uses for 
newsletters, etc is nice, does it require too much time and effort to 
convert articles to GuideXML and get the newsletters published?


Alternative setups for the newsletter could be to either go text-only or 
web-only.


Text-only would involved producing a text-only email, which is then 
copied and pasted onto the website for archiving. This would obviously 
require minimal formatting work.


My idea for a web-only setup would require more initial work, but I 
think would make maintenance much easier once set up. The Gentoo 
Newsletter would become a separate website, not based on GuideXML, but 
on a standard CMS. Instead of having set release dates (weekly or 
monthly), articles would just be released as soon as they are produced.


The regular features like bug stats, GLSAs, developer changes could be 
easily generated automatically (I suspect almost all of those are mostly 
done automatically anyway - adapting such scripts for a CMS that can 
publish from RSS feeds should be relatively trivial) and would appear on 
the website without any intervention.


As above, articles would be published as and when they are ready. 
Instead of just 1 editor, this website-based setup would be able to have 
multiple editors with little collaboration required (just to mark 
submissions as being worked on when an editor picks them up, which 
should be easily doable using a ticket-based system (bugzilla) or 
mailing list).


An advantage, as I see it, of the website-based system is that it could 
be expanded to include features not currently easily possible with the 
current newsletter - categorized archiving of articles (not just be 
publish date) and user comments. While I haven't looked, it's probably 
possible to even find a CMS which includes email notification of new 
articles as a feature.



AllenJB

PS. This did start out as a submission for a council meeting agenda 
item, but I couldn't stop writing.


PPS. To preempt the obvious suggestion: I do intend to become a 
developer, I just don't feel I have the time to commit right now. 
That'll hopefully change in ~6 months once I've finished uni and have a job.

Re: [gentoo-dev] slot deps in package.mask and profiles

[Donnie Berkholz]

On 21:04 Sun 25 Jan , Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:25:44 -0100
> "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"  wrote:
> > I talked to Zac  earlier in #gentoo-portage about adding an
> > entry to package.mask for KDE-4.2.0 using slot deps. Thomas
> >  and Patrick  raised the concern we might
> > need profile eapis and that PMS nailed p.mask to EAPI-0.
> > Zac confirmed that the first stable version to support slot deps in p.
> > mask was 2.1.3.16, that it was stabled in bug 197165 - 14 months ago
> > - - and that the first stages to include it were the 2008.0 stages.
> > Thus, can we finally give the ok to use slot deps in package.mask? Can
> > we also give the ok to use it everywhere in all 2008.0 and later
> > profiles/ ?
> 
> The Council approved profile eapi files for use a while ago (can't
> remember when -- http://council.gentoo.org/ isn't being updated), and

Last month's meeting

> they discussed timeframes for using newer EAPIs then too. Did you see
> that discussion?

"An EAPI=0 profile always needs to exist so that users with old portage 
can upgrade. Otherwise they will sync and have no valid profile 
available so cannot emerge a new version of portage.

"Decision: Approved. Existing stable profiles must use EAPI=0. New or dev 
 ^
profiles can use higher EAPIs.

"Ref: 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_930f58fcebcbbcbe523c001f2c825179.xml";


I haven't finished & posted last month's summary 
 yet because of a 
long holiday vacation and lots of work deadlines after returning. I'll 
get all that stuff updated this week.

-- 
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com


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