[gentoo-dev] Re: more help needed with gcc-4.8 stabilization, chromium starts heavily using C++11
Rich Freeman posted on Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:52:07 -0500 as excerpted: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 00:34:33 + (UTC) >> Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: >> >>> While it pains me to say this, unfortunately it looks like we have >>> another "toxic person" situation to deal with, with all the >>> implications that come with it. Maybe it's time to deal with it. >> >> Toxic wars have casualties; in one of the sides, or in both of them. >> >> IOTW; you're already dealing with it, you can only change the outcome. >> >> > Can you be clear as to what you're recommending? I'm not sure if that question was of me or of Tom or of all readers... My operating assumption is that what I see is the tip of the iceberg. I'm not on core or on IRC, and while I sometimes read the council IRC logs, I've only caught the summaries a couple of times in the last year or so, so there's /certainly/ more going on than I see. So I'm not in a position to have a recommendation, only to worry, because it's my distro in the balance! =8^0 Tho I /can/ say I /seriously/ appreciate your effort in particular. You seem to be on the more active and visible side in the council, and more than anyone else, I see you constantly trying to play mediator and peacemaker. Surely it can't be easy, and at times I'm sure it looks and indeed might be hopeless, but /somebody/ has got to do it because even where it doesn't work it's a cryin' shame not to try, and for whatever my perspective is worth, I've never seen your effort be without merit or your opinion not worth giving considerable thought, because often your posts consider points I hadn't thought of, or did in passing but incorrectly passed over without appropriate consideration of the merits. > Are you suggesting that instead of trying to mediate between people who > don't get a long, it would be better to just pick one or the other as > the winner and boot the other out? There comes a point at which failure to take positive action of some sort, including kicking people out if it comes to that, ends up being action of its own. If it's one "him or me", my experience is it's the person making the demand that should, and usually does, go. If however it's the same "him" on the other end of multiple such instances, at some point the question must be asked where the problem ultimately resides. I won't pretend to have an answer and I'm glad I'm not the one in the position to make those decisions, but, well, there's some history of exceptionalism here, bending the rules and finding technical solutions where people with lessor stature with more minor violations have been out on their ear, because yes, there /is/ quite some valuable contribution at stake here, and the person in question is not only extremely technically talented, but also, apparently extremely adept at finding and walking the edge when it suits him. We've had that situation before, and ultimately I think it ended up best for all parties when that personality was told their contribution could continue if they wanted, but it could no longer be as a gentoo dev. I guess it's not a secret who I'm talking about, ciaranm. And yes, I think it /has/ been better for both him and /gentoo/ the way it turned out, as it freed both sides from a relationship that simply was no longer workable, and allowed creating one where both sides could and did still benefit from the contributions of the other, while now separated by enough distance and with each side having the ability to walk now whenever they wanted, that it actually worked. =:^) The ideal here would be to find a similar both-sides-workable relationship, but the man that can describe both what that might be and how best to get from here to there... if he exists... surely can be used in more worldwide consequence negotiations such as the Iranian nuclear talks or the Ukrainian situation, or even the Debian systemd thing that unfortunately seems to be tearing them apart ATM, and probably doesn't have the time for Gentoo! =:^\ > One of the challenges here is that if we were talking about just one > productive person who tended to drive everybody away that would be one > thing. The problem is that we have a lot of productive people who have > different sorts of personality quirks. Indeed. Quite the illustrative list you had, too. Like I said I'm glad you and the rest of council are dealing with it, not me, and my thoughts are with you, hoping for wisdom. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
Re: [gentoo-dev] Doomsayers needed
On 11/26/2014 03:57 PM, Diego Elio Pettenò wrote:
>>
>> And with the command set to ${ROOT}bin/ping, building for a Gentoo
>> system under another root should work, right?
>
> No, $ROOT should not seep into the compiled code.
>
Ah, I think I see my mistake: when running *within* a chroot, you don't
want ${ROOT}bin/ping, instead you want just /bin/ping. Likewise for
prefix I'd want ${EPREFIX}/bin/ping instead of ${EROOT}bin/ping?
As long as the test suite remains disabled, it shouldn't be a problem to
set them to the values needed at runtime. Thank you both.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: more help needed with gcc-4.8 stabilization, chromium starts heavily using C++11
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: > On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 00:34:33 + (UTC) > Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > >> While it pains me to say this, unfortunately it looks like we have >> another "toxic person" situation to deal with, with all the >> implications that come with it. Maybe it's time to deal with it. > > Toxic wars have casualties; in one of the sides, or in both of them. > > IOTW; you're already dealing with it, you can only change the outcome. > Can you be clear as to what you're recommending? Are you suggesting that instead of trying to mediate between people who don't get a long, it would be better to just pick one or the other as the winner and boot the other out? One of the challenges here is that if we were talking about just one productive person who tended to drive everybody away that would be one thing. The problem is that we have a lot of productive people who have different sorts of personality quirks. They range from blowing up in public, to constant passive-aggression, to just silently doing their own thing completely ignoring any input whatsoever. I'm sure I missed a few, like writing excessively-long emails. :) I guess one of the advantages of a model where devs turn into reviewers instead of authors is that you can prioritize people skills since their main role isn't to actually write the code so much as to coordinate things. However, this assumes that people would still contribute in such a model. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:17:05 +0100 hasufell wrote: > packages up for grab: > co-maintained by games > dev-games/goatee > games-board/goatee-gtk As the developer of these, I would be happy to help proxy-maintain them. I have little ebuild experience, but can write bash and this is a good excuse for me to finally read the dev manual :). By the way hasufell, thanks a bunch for adding these to the tree. Cheers, Bryan signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: more help needed with gcc-4.8 stabilization, chromium starts heavily using C++11
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 00:34:33 + (UTC) Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote: > While it pains me to say this, unfortunately it looks like we have > another "toxic person" situation to deal with, with all the > implications that come with it. Maybe it's time to deal with it. Toxic wars have casualties; in one of the sides, or in both of them. IOTW; you're already dealing with it, you can only change the outcome. > Best wishes to those on the council ATM, however they go. It's not > an easy job in the best circumstances and unfortunately, we're not > talking the best circumstances ATM. However it resolves, they're > going to need wisdom and guts and social skills. Ignoramus et ignorabimus. IOTW; you can't see the future, gut feeling play a very big role. > We can all hope/pray to $DEITY/$FATES/$HIGHER- POWERS they have > what's required, because the bandages applied to date are clearly no > longer working. Band-aids don't fix bullet holes. IOTW; while it may or may not change the outcome, war is a real threat.
Re: [gentoo-dev] more help needed with gcc-4.8 stabilization, chromium starts heavily using C++11
On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:32:15 + Diego Elio Pettenò wrote: > So really, I'm tired to be insulted, and this was the last drop. > Goodbye. Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes +1! Given our invested time; it's not the lack of encouragement, but rather the presence of discouragement that sets up for unpleasant moments. Every drop is one too much...
Re: [gentoo-dev] Doomsayers needed
On 26 Nov 2014 11:07, "Michael Orlitzky" wrote:
>
> On 11/26/2014 01:43 PM, Sergey Popov wrote:
> >
> > Standart - cross-compilation and prefix. If you do not care about the
> > latter(not having keywords for your package) - it's ok.
> > Cross-compilation, or compilation into another root is trickier - you
> > should support it.
> >
>
> With ping and ping6 coming from net-misc/iputils, wouldn't the command
> syntax be the same under prefix, except with $EROOT instead of $ROOT?
>
> And with the command set to ${ROOT}bin/ping, building for a Gentoo
> system under another root should work, right?
No, $ROOT should not seep into the compiled code.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Doomsayers needed
On 11/26/2014 01:43 PM, Sergey Popov wrote:
>
> Standart - cross-compilation and prefix. If you do not care about the
> latter(not having keywords for your package) - it's ok.
> Cross-compilation, or compilation into another root is trickier - you
> should support it.
>
With ping and ping6 coming from net-misc/iputils, wouldn't the command
syntax be the same under prefix, except with $EROOT instead of $ROOT?
And with the command set to ${ROOT}bin/ping, building for a Gentoo
system under another root should work, right?
Cross-compiling for another system with a different syntax might not
work, of course -- but it didn't before, either. You'd need to use
EXTRA_ECONF for that.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Doomsayers needed
23.11.2014 21:47, Michael Orlitzky пишет: > We've got a bug in Nagios's `ping` command format detection: > > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=468296 > > It's easy to reproduce by taking down your "lo" interface, or by > filtering all icmp packets in iptables. > > Fortunately, you can override the auto-detection by passing it a magic > string, and that works around the bug: > > --with-ping-command="/bin/ping -n -U -w %d -c %d %s" > --with-ping6-command="/bin/ping6 -n -U -w %d -c %d %s" > > Those are the formats and executable locations that get detected on my > machine. Can anyone think of a case where hard-coding these (using > $ROOT) would backfire on me? > Standart - cross-compilation and prefix. If you do not care about the latter(not having keywords for your package) - it's ok. Cross-compilation, or compilation into another root is trickier - you should support it. -- Best regards, Sergey Popov Gentoo developer Gentoo Desktop-effects project lead Gentoo Proxy maintainers project lead signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs
14.11.2014 06:16, Tom Wijsman пишет: > Due to lack of time I'm giving up some packages. Feel free to take them: > app-admin/logmon > Split-screen terminal/ncurses based log viewer I have taken that, nice tool -- Best regards, Sergey Popov Gentoo developer Gentoo Desktop-effects project lead Gentoo Proxy maintainers project lead signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs
Hello ablepharus I couldn't found your account info (base your email) in bugzilla. also I'd be happy if you can convince me you do have a few experience on ebuilds writing ;-) assume you already familiar with how @proxy-maint goes[1] thanks [1] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Proxy_Maintainers On 23:49 Tue 25 Nov , ablepharus wrote: > I would like to take care of the following packages but I would need a > proxy-maintainer. > > > hasufell writes: > > app-admin/clustershell > > dev-python/simplegui > > dev-python/jedi > > dev-libs/mathjax > > net-misc/youtube-viewer > > > co-maintained by games > > dev-games/mygui > > games-action/armagetronad > > games-strategy/liquidwar6 > > > > co-maintained with Patrick Lauer > > sci-mathematics/flint > -- Yixun Lan (dlan) Gentoo Linux Developer GPG Key ID AABEFD55
Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs
On 22:40 Sun 23 Nov , Alex Xu wrote: > On 23/11/14 08:17 PM, hasufell wrote: > > packages up for grab: > > > > I didn't change metadata.xml, nor bug reports for any of those, because > > I was too lazy. If you grab one, please do so yourself. > > how will bug-wranglers know where to assign packages then? > > > app-misc/trash-cli > > > > co-maintained by games > > games-misc/katawa-shoujo > > games-roguelike/FTL > > > > co-maintained with Lars Wendler > > media-sound/umurmur > > I can proxy these if the relevant people agree. done, update all metadata.xml btw, you should really finish your dev bug, and do this yourself ;-) thanks > -- Yixun Lan (dlan) Gentoo Linux Developer GPG Key ID AABEFD55
Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages up for grabs
On 21:08 Sun 23 Nov , Daniel Campbell wrote: > > I'd like to take x11-misc/spacefm if a developer is willing to allow > me to proxy-maint until I become a developer. update metadata.xml, using your email found in bugzie. and current no bug opened, thanks btw, any particular reason why should we keep so many stable versions? probably start doing by cleaning old versions ;-) > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v2 > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUcqEYAAoJEJUrb08JgYgHJ0IIAK+tguKdL+JxdjKLySOSJaTU > kiU1z2rBqUfPzs8VI3V8JAAL9dbSJel4h3/JdoZFpidC9jED63l5STmGXi6dp63O > 9CKqNQRt4AELfOUpQzxoD4HNHVxaA9hkiiJXgAoF9HIfKBEqczPCBKGnJb5s1WB5 > 8eQkn6t6DZMZeRV/dE6pw1RgTj1eHowu2es67V7+bHMiy2ylz5/4ru0dx+1UHvU1 > UeBBcB1IesAVxVsfpBLJoi+aZA9CO9EAriaGogzTXQPP5odr4bgIf5acxOPKGxt0 > iz62j/XgG3jTExqkP5rNaTVnO9ZZol8XPcLiAIZTEl79XU0ZOcy5LDUsJNY+9cI= > =stIL > -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Yixun Lan (dlan) Gentoo Linux Developer GPG Key ID AABEFD55
