Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving Gentoo User Relations

2006-04-07 Thread Jonathan Coome
On Fri, 07 Apr 2006 02:33:07 -0700
Donnie Berkholz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The general case of the above is that if you want information, you 
 need to find the right spot for it. That's generally either a specific
 relevant list or Bugzilla. The information doesn't come looking for 
 you.

This, I think is exactly the point of what Christopher was saying.
Currently, a lot of information is simply not available unless you know
exactly where to look and who to ask, and that means that you have to
spend a while around Gentoo before you can even ask the questions.

I think planet.gentoo.org helps in this regard, but there could be a
lot more done to keep end users aware of what's going on.

Regards,
Jonathan

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Making the developer community more open

2006-03-22 Thread Jonathan Coome
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 15:45 -0800, Bret Towe wrote:
 perhaps having some proxys of a sort that accept patchs and such
 from trusted users that would commit fixes to portage would help.
 similiar to the kernel format that way users can 'commit'/help out quickly
 without having to go thru the long process of becoming a dev

Taking this idea a bit further, what about proxy maintainers? There seem
to be quite a few packages that are being effectively maintained by
users on bugzilla, but are not in portage because they don't have a
maintainer. A developer could then take these ebuilds, make sure they
don't do anything malicious, or break QA, or whatever, and act as the
bridge between the portage tree and the users actually working on the
ebuild and keeping things up to date and working.

There could then be a bug for each such package where all the patches,
ebuilds and version bumps could be posted. The developer who accepts the
package could just take those ebuilds, maybe corrected if necessary, and
commit them. If the ebuild breaks, it's up to the developer to fix it.
If the package breaks, however, it would be up to the users on the bug
to fix it, although of course the developer would be able to fix it if
he or she could.

If there doesn't seem to be anyone interested in keeping the package
working anymore then it could be masked and subsequently removed as
packages are now. If there are security problems and the fix is not
trivial, it might be sensible to mask the package until someone can fix
it rather than waiting for a fix to become available.

If the developer working as the proxy disappeared, or retired, then the
packages could be assigned back to maintainer-wanted (not
maintainer-needed) but left in the tree until they broke, at which point
they could be removed again unless anyone wants to pick them up.
Similarly, if the users maintaining the package disappeared and the
package broke, it could be masked and removed.

This would seem to me to add more flexibility, and allow more ebuilds to
get into the tree without breaking the tree or causing security
problems. The only difference would be that the developer who took the
package would not be responsible for making sure the program worked -
that would be the responsibility of the users maintaining it in
bugzilla. There should probably be some large, friendly warnings to
inform anyone installing it that is the case, as well.

What do you think?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Making the developer community more open

2006-03-22 Thread Jonathan Coome
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 09:15 -0500, Dan Meltzer wrote:
 Asking developers to proxy takes almost as much time as it does to
 ask them to maintain a package by themselves.  The developer is
 directly responsible for anything he commits, so he will have to still
 test the ebuild, still test any revisions, and still follow the
 package to make sure there are no problems.  The writing the ebuild
 part of the process is not that much of the commitment, I don't see
 the point.

Well no, that's not really what I was suggesting. Developers who took on
these ebuilds would only be responsible for checking that they don't
break the tree and that they do actually work. They aren't responsible
for fixing the package when it breaks, or for following its development
at all - that's the responsibility of the _users_ maintaining the
package. 

Yes, writing the ebuild is the least part of the process, but there's
often a lot more involved, and it's that that's being done in bugzilla
at the moment. The way I see it, the developer would only be responsible
for the ebuilds, and not for doing everything else.

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