Re: [gentoo-dev] Agenda [WAS: One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June]
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Donnie Berkholz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The idea behind posting to the list in advance is twofold -- holding > council members accountable for: > > 1) Knowing the relevant information, and > > 2) Participating in the source discussion if they have anything new to >add, rather than bringing it up during the meeting. > > What we don't want is people speaking up at the meeting with previously > unheard opinions or asking about already discussed topics, either of > which often create prolonged discussions. > > The alternative to posting in advance is that you agree with an opinion > that's already out there and will not bring up anything new during the > meeting. That's my interpretation of people not posting, and that's > perfectly fine. > > In the future, every council meeting should become little more than a > time to hold a vote on predefined options for each topic. In fact, if we > could get that far, we might not even need live meetings at all anymore > It could all be on-list, or even using votify. This is going into an interesting direction. Another thing I'd like to see is rather than simply postponing a decision, making sure the reason(s) for the postponing do(es) not exist any more for the next meeting or in a given time. The method usually includes making someone responsible for solving the issue (in our case somebody will need to volunteer), making sure that person can and will dedicate enough time, making sure (s)he will have have access to the necessary people or tools, etc... It's classic problem solving methodology, and I'm sure you, Donnie, can much better elaborate on this. I don't think we need to formalize this, but like your proposition of how to efficiently conduct a meeting it's just a sane habit to acquire. Denis. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Agenda [WAS: One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June]
On 14:58 Wed 11 Jun , Donnie Berkholz wrote: > Carefully note the Preparation sections. If they aren't completed, we > will postpone the topic to the -council mailing list or the next meeting > instead of waste time during the meeting doing things that should've > happened in advance. > > Please respond with any suggestions, including suggested order of the > topics by urgency (within "old topics" and "new topics"). Unfortunately > not all of the topics were posted to the council meeting reminder > thread, so it was hard to dig them out. amne talked to me and said he won't be able to post to any mailing lists before the meeting because he's at work, although he will be able to read them. I realize it was pretty late notice on the agenda, and the preparation+consequences is a new concept that we haven't all agreed on. The idea behind posting to the list in advance is twofold -- holding council members accountable for: 1) Knowing the relevant information, and 2) Participating in the source discussion if they have anything new to add, rather than bringing it up during the meeting. What we don't want is people speaking up at the meeting with previously unheard opinions or asking about already discussed topics, either of which often create prolonged discussions. The alternative to posting in advance is that you agree with an opinion that's already out there and will not bring up anything new during the meeting. That's my interpretation of people not posting, and that's perfectly fine. In the future, every council meeting should become little more than a time to hold a vote on predefined options for each topic. In fact, if we could get that far, we might not even need live meetings at all anymore It could all be on-list, or even using votify. Thanks, Donnie -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Agenda [WAS: One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June]
On 03:06 Wed 11 Jun , Mike Frysinger wrote: > This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council > meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the > channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC). Here's the proposed agenda. I intend to get every requested topic on the agenda so there is no need for an open floor afterwards. Carefully note the Preparation sections. If they aren't completed, we will postpone the topic to the -council mailing list or the next meeting instead of waste time during the meeting doing things that should've happened in advance. Please respond with any suggestions, including suggested order of the topics by urgency (within "old topics" and "new topics"). Unfortunately not all of the topics were posted to the council meeting reminder thread, so it was hard to dig them out. More meeting optimization - I'd like to also set a 2-hour limit on the meeting. Anything we don't hit during that timeframe will be postponed to the list or the next meeting. We can also take an idea from http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/About and set the +zmn channel modes: * +m - Moderated - People who don't have voices (+v) can't send messages to the channel. * +n - No external messages - With this mode, no one can send messages to the channel without even being joined. * +z - Relaxed moderation - When +z is set each message that would be blocked by +m is sent to all the users who are currently operator. That will allow council members to see everything said by everyone, but non-council people will not be able to see things said by other non-council people. Then +v can be given to anyone with good contributions. What do you think? Thanks, Donnie Updates to last month's topics == http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080508-summary.txt Document of being an active developer - Requested attendees: araujo Last month: Numerous suggested improvements to info on the certificate. Preparation: araujo needs to post progress, an updated certificate and any new requests to the gentoo-council or gentoo-project list 2+ hours before the meeting. Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion expected. Slacker arches -- Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 2+ hours before the meeting. Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion expected. Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams? - Preparation: Someone on an undermanned arch team needs to describe their workflow on-list 2+ hours before the meeting. Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion expected. PMS: Are versions allowed to have more than 8 digits? - http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_db2f5c09c2c0c8b042ca3d0dcec7cdaf.xml https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=188449 Preparation: Do the package maintainers with extremely long PVs need them? The involved packages: sys-process/fuser-bsd sys-apps/net-tools sys-apps/gradm net-im/ntame media-video/captury media-libs/libcaptury media-libs/capseo sys-block/btrace www-apache/mod_depends net-wireless/rt2500 sys-fs/unionfs Preparation: What's the impact of extending versionator.eclass? Goal: With data in hand, make a decision. How to handle appeals - Preparation: Post to the gentoo-council mailing list 2+ hours before the meeting with your opinion. Goal: Vote on an approach that was previously posted to the list. New topics == as-needed by default antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default LDFLAGS. Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS" 2+ hours before the meeting. Goal: Vote. GLEP 54 --- Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few questions to our nominees" 2+ hours before the meeting. Goal: Vote. GLEP 55 --- Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 2+ hours before the meeting. Let it attempt to come to a consensus before we vote. Goal: Vote once the discussion's no longer clearly ongoing. We can hold this vote on the -council mailing list instead of waiting for the next meeting. GLEP 56 --- Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag descriptions in metadata" 2+ hours before the meeting. Let it attempt to come to a consensus before we vote. Goal: Vote once the discussion's no longer clearly ongoing. We can hold this vote on the -council mailing list instead of waiting for the next meeting. Status of PMS - ferringb said: I'd like the council to please discuss the c
