Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On 07/28/2010 06:36 AM, Jeremy Olexa wrote: On 07/27/2010 11:51 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote: Since the QA trigger in portage is based on --hash-style=gnu, you'd have to make that the default as well to find a package ignoring LDFLAGS... Put that in the dev profile(s) then. :) -Jeremy This has been discussed before: http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org/msg38251.html
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200 Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org wrote: Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed. jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On Tuesday 27 of July 2010 16:39:01 Jeroen Roovers wrote: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200 Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org wrote: Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed. A few broken apps don't overweight the benefit of having --as-needed enabled by default. -- regards MM signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On 7/27/10 7:39 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200 Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org wrote: Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed. I think that the arch teams doing the stabilizations are a good safety net against that. And having --as-needed by default makes those issues easier to detect. Paweł signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:41:36 -0700 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. phajdan...@gentoo.org wrote: On 7/27/10 7:39 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200 Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org wrote: Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed. I think that the arch teams doing the stabilizations are a good safety net against that. And having --as-needed by default makes those issues easier to detect. Not entirely true, because as I tried to explain, a package needs to first respect our LDFLAGS to respect our --as-needed in the second place. Since the QA trigger in portage is based on --hash-style=gnu, you'd have to make that the default as well to find a package ignoring LDFLAGS... jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On 07/27/2010 07:51 PM, Jeroen Roovers wrote: On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:41:36 -0700 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. phajdan...@gentoo.org wrote: On 7/27/10 7:39 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote: On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200 Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org wrote: Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed. I think that the arch teams doing the stabilizations are a good safety net against that. And having --as-needed by default makes those issues easier to detect. Not entirely true, because as I tried to explain, a package needs to first respect our LDFLAGS to respect our --as-needed in the second place. Since the QA trigger in portage is based on --hash-style=gnu, you'd have to make that the default as well to find a package ignoring LDFLAGS... But adding --as-needed by default does not (now) break packages not respecting LDFLAGS. Regards, signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On 07/27/2010 11:51 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote: Since the QA trigger in portage is based on --hash-style=gnu, you'd have to make that the default as well to find a package ignoring LDFLAGS... Put that in the dev profile(s) then. :) -Jeremy
[gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
Hi guys, See the attachment for the draft. Please improve it to be an actual English :P Cheers Tom Title: --as-needed enabled in default profiles Author: Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org Content-type: text/plain Posted: 2010-07-26 Revision: 1 News-Item-Format: 1.0 Starting today all applications emerged on your system are linked together with additional LDFLAGS=-Wl,--as-needed. This option allows us to avoid linking extra libraries into the final binary improving startup times and more importantly making binaries more resistant to a library SONAME changes [1]. To gain the benefits of the change you should doublecheck your value of LDFLAGS in make.conf because the variable does not fold and your make.conf value is final. So after checking it and potentially removing we suggest rebuilding whole system to benefit from it. Overriding the in-profiles value is quite simple as described by previous paragraph. Just put simply LDFLAGS=-Wl,01 in make.conf. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On 26-07-2010 22:29:06 +0200, Tomáš Chvátal wrote: Starting today all applications emerged on your system are linked together with additional LDFLAGS=-Wl,--as-needed. This option allows us to avoid linking extra libraries into the final binary improving startup times and more importantly making binaries more resistant to a library SONAME changes [1]. While this is sort of the end result, I'd suggest making a more correct statement here, like and more importantly possibly reducing breakage of binaries and libraries after a library SONAME changes. -- Fabian Groffen Gentoo on a different level
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On 7/26/10 1:29 PM, Tomáš Chvátal wrote: Title: --as-needed enabled in default profiles Author: Tomáš Chvátal scarab...@gentoo.org Content-type: text/plain Posted: 2010-07-26 Revision: 1 News-Item-Format: 1.0 Starting today all applications emerged on your system are linked together with additional LDFLAGS=-Wl,--as-needed. This option allows us to avoid linking extra libraries into the final binary improving startup times and more importantly making binaries more resistant to a library SONAME changes [1]. How about making it less technical? Just say that you'll need to rebuild less packages on average after a library upgrade than before. To gain the benefits of the change you should doublecheck your value of LDFLAGS in make.conf because the variable does not fold and your make.conf value is final. So after checking it and potentially removing we suggest rebuilding whole system to benefit from it. This might be a bit unclear to less savvy users. How about just make sure your LDFLAGS in /etc/make.conf contains -Wl,--as-needed or is unset? Overriding the in-profiles value is quite simple as described by previous paragraph. Just put simply LDFLAGS=-Wl,01 in make.conf. Instead of saying overriding, I'd say something more similar to disabling --as-needed and add that it is not recommended. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml Paweł P.S. It's nice to see this happening, thanks! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:29:06PM +0200, Tomáš Chvátal wrote: Hi guys, See the attachment for the draft. Please improve it to be an actual English :P How about: -Wl,--as-needed has been added to the default profile's LDFLAGS. This option optimizes the linking process, only linking binaries to libraries that are trully needed. This way, fewer libraries are loaded at runtime and fewer packages need to be rebuilt on library updates. Setting LDFLAGS in your make.conf will override the default. In that case, if you want the new setting you have to either remove LDFLAGS, or append -Wl,--as-needed to it (sans the quotes) yourself. To take advantage of the new default you can either rebuild world or allow the system to migrate slowly through updates. To disable the new default (not recommended) you can define your own LDFLAGS in make.conf. LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1 will suffice. For more information on --as-needed, read [1]. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml -- Alex Alexander -=- wired Gentoo Linux Developer -=- Council / Qt / KDE / more www.linuxized.com pgphbA3oTx1sX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
I like that one better.
Both proposals leave a question open to me, though:
Do I understand correctly that I could integrate the in-profile value with
LDFLAGS=${LDFLAGS} foo bar
in /etc/make.conf? Maybe that's something people want to do. If so
maybe add a hint?
Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-dev] News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:44:36 -0700 Paweł Hajdan, Jr. phajdan...@gentoo.org wrote: This might be a bit unclear to less savvy users. How about just make sure your LDFLAGS in /etc/make.conf contains -Wl,--as-needed or is unset? Instead of saying overriding, I'd say something more similar to disabling --as-needed and add that it is not recommended. It should be unset; as you say, users should not be screwing with system-wide LDFLAGs, as we don't support anything but the defaults. I put an LDFLAGs FAQ in the optimization guide a long time ago: section titleWhat about LDFLAGS?/title body p The Gentoo developers have already set basic, safe LDFLAGS in the base profiles, so you don't need to change them. /p /body /section signature.asc Description: PGP signature
