Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 02/02/15 19:01, hasufell wrote: Jan Matejka: On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 21:00:24 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: Anything written in haskell tend to be impractical to deploy. http://code.haskell.org/~dons/talks/dons-google-2015-01-27.pdf Yep, I too think that statement above is incorrect. Also have a look at https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell_in_industry Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Nvidia... As someone who deploys things in Haskell, I would have to disagree with the original comment as well. - -- Alexander berna...@gentoo.org https://secure.plaimi.net/~alexander -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlTU7SgACgkQRtClrXBQc7XsTAD/S8QuDfjokcbNU7b5k/vovYOD hJhSb97gDLI2I+cTv3gA/1gLO5cbVePebqI0NafJs6tFrr8gZ46/Plb0nVwNJSfz =UCwp -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 21:00:24 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 16/01/15 18:30, Jan Matejka wrote: On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:49:13 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 07/11/14 06:06, Harsh Bhatt wrote: Also make might enjoy improvements. shake? Anything written in haskell tend to be impractical to deploy. http://code.haskell.org/~dons/talks/dons-google-2015-01-27.pdf tup managed to get lots of great ideas spoiled by being impractically extremist in tracking the directory changes. I don't know what tup is but I'm guessing it's an application. Are you judging a language to be impractical because one application made (allegedly) a bad design decision? - -- Jan Matějka| Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUz7MtAAoJEIN+7RD5ejahmuoH/1CYfKRdrgtcms2U1Rcio2HQ oJsDY+5SZerGSJrnnohd7l/FHbxcA51H04IUws22GlJ7OnIlVRD/IuYlAyLogc9m bvg/Tt/OuRavHqdhi5JmJfQqYUVZJiEBQok5jG9Aa6+0+d1rPYzUQFsbNQ4ywO12 LLdVATR/2ovrEgVNmgUJQlfeZy6Axo3MwHbBRjsoi+2eKlSVBwKmAQMvpifLr5bI 8l2hOa7CGis02uWa8t8JixZ3XSkqrcjExGQYcBbWdCYVulfXgUbz0pNkQipOCOh+ +bNzubNDOGMSyiJ1mmtRG46vEKhgefns+IvxEhiOIIeJajPJR+R3EU0cV2LAvD0= =+ORA -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
Jan Matejka: On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 21:00:24 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 16/01/15 18:30, Jan Matejka wrote: On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:49:13 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 07/11/14 06:06, Harsh Bhatt wrote: Also make might enjoy improvements. shake? Anything written in haskell tend to be impractical to deploy. http://code.haskell.org/~dons/talks/dons-google-2015-01-27.pdf Yep, I too think that statement above is incorrect. Also have a look at https://wiki.haskell.org/Haskell_in_industry Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Nvidia...
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:49:13 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 07/11/14 06:06, Harsh Bhatt wrote: Also make might enjoy improvements. shake? - -- Jan Matějka| Developer https://gentoo.org | Gentoo Linux GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJUuUqnAAoJEIN+7RD5ejahNwMH/R2OruTRy0yi4cwKFhPGqVZv SKVLp5jNGkY9pTFnMApuqqh53Tb4OW3uDO99wpkzpyzzr0wgarGFg1N6YAMkRf+g 3Vy+WvDrK6zQeu0IYq1VBMODSun6fgWUsNiEBgqYbDPqa/SmfTAGhIF3dt5HH6Gx J6T2SVFjjPFN+6LtWxVHph3G6/zSvKlHXKevqr4Po7PqnMXDnDBJ24LreNPVV0Aw 9G2lzT8/yuIvTF1x8FMinqOAWlp3CXYcfhizdYaFmMb7ROGZZFZJISx4L4GhkEK+ ojW457sX20Payc3GnY0O6yT29FDAf+1HQEhpEW2WEQ2hdP1lovtAiq+qyJnubrA= =lB3d -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
On 16/01/15 18:30, Jan Matejka wrote: On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:49:13 +0100 Luca Barbato lu_z...@gentoo.org wrote: On 07/11/14 06:06, Harsh Bhatt wrote: Also make might enjoy improvements. shake? Anything written in haskell tend to be impractical to deploy. tup managed to get lots of great ideas spoiled by being impractically extremist in tracking the directory changes. lu
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
On 07/11/14 06:06, Harsh Bhatt wrote: This idea seems bit interesting, about how the bug tracker works. In this i just need to confirm that how much mathematical aspect can be included. It's a good idea to work on. Also make might enjoy improvements. lu
[gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
I an Applied Maths student, currently in my final year. In my last 6 months i need to do a thesis something related to Mathematics as i am a Maths student. I have been using gentoo for quite a long time so was thinking to do something related to gentoo. Give me suggestion of what can be done. Anything related to modeling, simulation or Discreet Mathematics would be a better choice.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
Hi, Mathematics you said? That's nice. You can, for example, redesign our portage's dependency solving algorithm, as it is quite slow at the moment. ) I do not know what it does have inside right now, but using SAT solver can be a good idea (there is a successful example already: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Libzypp_satsolver) -- Regards, Jauhien On 11/06/2014 01:49 PM, Harsh Bhatt wrote: I an Applied Maths student, currently in my final year. In my last 6 months i need to do a thesis something related to Mathematics as i am a Maths student. I have been using gentoo for quite a long time so was thinking to do something related to gentoo. Give me suggestion of what can be done. Anything related to modeling, simulation or Discreet Mathematics would be a better choice. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:25:46 +0100 Jauhien Piatlicki jauh...@gentoo.org wrote: Mathematics you said? That's nice. You can, for example, redesign our portage's dependency solving algorithm, as it is quite slow at the moment. ) I do not know what it does have inside right now, but using SAT solver can be a good idea (there is a successful example already: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Libzypp_satsolver) A SAT encoding for dependency resolution is a *terrible* idea, for all kinds of reasons (some of which are Gentoo-specific, and some of which are not). * The model would be full of implication constraints, which perform terribly under unit propagation. * You can't get decent human-readable explanations of failure out of SAT solvers. * You're not just trying to find a correct resolution. You're trying to find an optimal resolution, with respect to some very difficult criteria. For example, you don't want to install any extra unrelated packages. This is very hard to express in SAT if you're going for a model which preserves consistency. * Coming up with a legal ordering in SAT is a pain. It's worse if you're trying to fully solve circular dependencies: if you do, dependency resolution becomes harder than NP, so you'd at least need a QSAT solver, not SAT. * Coming up with a legal resolution isn't always the right thing to do. Often a legal resolution can be obtained by uninstalling a whole load of stuff or switching loads of USE flags off. But it's better to give a good error to the user than to come up with a legal but stupid resolution. In other words, you *don't* want a complete algorithm, you want a domain-aware incomplete algorithm. If you're going to go the toolkit route, you should be using a CP solver, not a SAT solver. But even then you'd be better off making some changes and not using plain old MAC, so you're back to writing the algorithms yourself. What you need is for someone who understands CP and SAT to write a resolver using algorithms inspired by how CP and SAT solvers work, but not just blindly copying them. Doing this well is at least a full year Masters level project... -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 06/11/14 08:43 AM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:25:46 +0100 Jauhien Piatlicki jauh...@gentoo.org wrote: Mathematics you said? That's nice. You can, for example, redesign our portage's dependency solving algorithm, as it is quite slow at the moment. ) I do not know what it does have inside right now, but using SAT solver can be a good idea (there is a successful example already: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Libzypp_satsolver) A SAT encoding for dependency resolution is a *terrible* idea, for all kinds of reasons (some of which are Gentoo-specific, and some of which are not). [ Snip! ] What you need is for someone who understands CP and SAT to write a resolver using algorithms inspired by how CP and SAT solvers work, but not just blindly copying them. Doing this well is at least a full year Masters level project... ...well, if this is an undergrad project, he could start with the SAT solver and then do what you recommend for his Masters' .. :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlRbkToACgkQ2ugaI38ACPBwYwEAtrXJFaVlf4WSv7eV8N+vX6T9 VFq56sh59LmeJ6+UMJcA/33trhsYdNAoRe6i/RWIIRQw8zyS37lIo6I9bLA7TEPg =7kZS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:18:18 -0500 Ian Stakenvicius a...@gentoo.org wrote: ...well, if this is an undergrad project, he could start with the SAT solver and then do what you recommend for his Masters' .. :) Naah, SAT is doomed. A (bad) vanilla CP model is doable, but in my experience of students doing these kinds of projects, SAT and IP look sufficiently mathsy to count as a maths project, but if you hand in a CP model to a mathematician they'll go I don't understand, you just wrote down some stuff describing something. This isn't maths!... -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:25:46 +0100 Jauhien Piatlicki jauh...@gentoo.org wrote: Mathematics you said? That's nice. You can, for example, redesign our portage's dependency solving algorithm More generally perhaps: do something interesting with the portage tree. If not as directly useful as fixing dependency, a look at how bits of the tree changed over time (particularly with regard to inter-dependencies between the bits) could be much more interesting than regarding any particular snapshot. The other huge multidimensional tree we have is the bug tracker database. Several social science majors have already tried to do something intelligible with the bug tracker data (and failed in my opinion) so I am confident that someone who doesn't have that socially oriented view of networks might be able to come up with more outrageous and interesting viewpoints on how the bug tracker actually works and how various bits of it interconnect, or doesn't work and don't connect, respectively. jer
Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding my final year thesis
Thank you Jauhien Piatlicki, Ciaran McCreesh, Ian Stakenvicius, Jeroen Roovers for your detailed replies. After reading all the proivded information, I got confused about doing SAT or CP model. Currently i am in 5 th year of Applied Mathematics and i have 6 months of time to complete my work. The other huge multidimensional tree we have is the bug tracker database. Several social science majors have already tried to do something intelligible with the bug tracker data (and failed in my opinion) so I am confident that someone who doesn't have that socially oriented view of networks might be able to come up with more outrageous and interesting viewpoints on how the bug tracker actually works and how various bits of it interconnect, or doesn't work and don't connect, respectively. -- Jeroen Roovers This idea seems bit interesting, about how the bug tracker works. In this i just need to confirm that how much mathematical aspect can be included. It's a good idea to work on. Harsh Bhatt On Friday, 7 November 2014 2:58 AM, Jeroen Roovers j...@gentoo.org wrote: On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:25:46 +0100 Jauhien Piatlicki jauh...@gentoo.org wrote: Mathematics you said? That's nice. You can, for example, redesign our portage's dependency solving algorithm More generally perhaps: do something interesting with the portage tree. If not as directly useful as fixing dependency, a look at how bits of the tree changed over time (particularly with regard to inter-dependencies between the bits) could be much more interesting than regarding any particular snapshot. The other huge multidimensional tree we have is the bug tracker database. Several social science majors have already tried to do something intelligible with the bug tracker data (and failed in my opinion) so I am confident that someone who doesn't have that socially oriented view of networks might be able to come up with more outrageous and interesting viewpoints on how the bug tracker actually works and how various bits of it interconnect, or doesn't work and don't connect, respectively. jer
