[gentoo-dev] "frozen" overlay Re: Please stop useless removals
On 02/01/2013 09:21 AM, Alec Warner wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Vaeth > wrote: >> # Upstream is dead and gone. # Masked for removal on 20130302 >>> >>> >>> Erm, so this is the _only_ reason - dead upstream? >> > If folks do not want to maintain it anymore, then it will be removed. > Feel free to contribute to Gentoo and maintain the packages. Hereby done, becoming a dev is a big step for just one package a user would keep. Ihmo, what you call "upstream dead" is a kind of positive situation. If the author has no longer time to contribute (we all have a real life) then it's ok, no need to wipe his contribution from the face of the world. If the software is just working as the author intendend, and it has no major bugs, then there's no need to do further trivial releases just to keep the disto maintainers busy. If it's broken, uncompatible and nobody steps up, drop it, agreed. >> You are destroying the charme of gentoo by systematically >> removing all these little tools and toys. The availability >> of a lot of software was once a strength of gentoo, so removing >> these things is really bad, especially if it happens for no >> real reason. We need to maintain a certain quality. Sheer mass does has no charm, if nothing works. But I'd rather like to see gentoo as a broad selection of tools, that build. maybe some really cool stuff nobody else has. > Gentoo is not a software archival service. >> I was understanding if e.g. someting was removed which needs >> the > a dead upstream. But just needing a small tool like imake (xboing) >> or having open feature requestes (epm) or even nothing and >> just dead upstream is IMHO really not a reason. >> >> If something really does not compile anymore and nobody cares, >> then remove keywords (or, for god's sake, mask it); >> if something might theoretically become a security issue (xpdf) >> then it should be masked. >> >> But please do not throw things out of the tree unless >> really necessary: >> >> It does not hurt anybody to have such package in the tree, >> but removing it - especially if upstream is dead - means >> that the tarbalös will be removed from the mirrors and thus >> nobody is able anymore to install it (even if he would care and >> fix some minor issues) unless he had kept a copy on >> his local machine (which will mean in the future that he can only >> do it if he had used gentoo already many years ago and cared >> during the time of the removal). > > Again I highly recommend archiving the software yourself; but I don't > think Gentoo should be doing it. It costs resources: - distfiles and all their mirrors accumulate - emerge dependency calculation If it's out-waged by increasing disc capacity and processor power is up to discussion. Last but not least, we have gattered some extra info besides the tarballs, our precious ebuild scripts. Which is why I started my involvement with Gentoo (maybe somebody should have told me about BSDs tree before that). As Martin said, tarballs get lost. I steal them from debian mirror on a regular basis, maybe we should contribute ourselves. PROPOSAL Let's create an overlay "frozen stuff" which contains all the software no longer developed with following features: Users showed interest in having them Web-presence to be picked up on Google search. (viewvc.cgi show dead is kinda hidden [1]) Separate distfile mirror no need to stress our mirror peers make it a sepearate repo, feed by upstream and mirror://gentoo I can contribute the space/bandwith. Feedback/Bugs/Voting can be handled inside b.g.o no need for extra login, frozen-bugs can be auto-generated, whitelist [frozen] just like the sunrise tracker bugs. BENEFIT User can choose whether or not layman -a frozen. Non-trivial ebuilds are preserved. Tarballs are preserved. Nobody gets hurt. Comments? [1] http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/ -- Michael Weber Gentoo Developer web: https://xmw.de/ mailto: Michael Weber
Re: [gentoo-dev] "frozen" overlay Re: Please stop useless removals
01.02.2013 12:53, Michael Weber wrote: > BENEFIT > >User can choose whether or not layman -a frozen. > >Non-trivial ebuilds are preserved. > >Tarballs are preserved. > >Nobody gets hurt. Well, we can move such software to sunrise, can't we? But proposition of splitted mirrors makes sense, cause quite often dead upstream means dead links to original tarballs too. -- Best regards, Sergey Popov Gentoo Linux Developer Desktop-effects project lead signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] "frozen" overlay Re: Please stop useless removals
HI Michael: I can think of it's almost kind of a staging area, some package may be partial broken(or partial functional), but still useful for user. Generally speaking, It should be a good idea! The end users will benefit a lot. Also if user show his interests, then he can report bug, send patch, or step in to active maintain the package. Leave a opportunity to him... Dennis On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Michael Weber wrote: > On 02/01/2013 09:21 AM, Alec Warner wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Vaeth > > wrote: > >> > # Upstream is dead and gone. > # Masked for removal on 20130302 > >>> > >>> > >>> Erm, so this is the _only_ reason - dead upstream? > >> > > If folks do not want to maintain it anymore, then it will be removed. > > Feel free to contribute to Gentoo and maintain the packages. > > Hereby done, becoming a dev is a big step for just one package a user > would keep. > > Ihmo, what you call "upstream dead" is a kind of positive situation. > > If the author has no longer time to contribute (we all have a real life) > then it's ok, no need to wipe his contribution from the face of the world. > > If the software is just working as the author intendend, and it has no > major bugs, then there's no need to do further trivial releases just to > keep the disto maintainers busy. > > If it's broken, uncompatible and nobody steps up, drop it, agreed. > > > >> You are destroying the charme of gentoo by systematically > >> removing all these little tools and toys. The availability > >> of a lot of software was once a strength of gentoo, so removing > >> these things is really bad, especially if it happens for no > >> real reason. > > We need to maintain a certain quality. Sheer mass does has no charm, if > nothing works. But I'd rather like to see gentoo as a broad selection of > tools, that build. maybe some really cool stuff nobody else has. > > > Gentoo is not a software archival service. > >> I was understanding if e.g. someting was removed which needs > >> the >> a dead upstream. But just needing a small tool like imake (xboing) > >> or having open feature requestes (epm) or even nothing and > >> just dead upstream is IMHO really not a reason. > >> > >> If something really does not compile anymore and nobody cares, > >> then remove keywords (or, for god's sake, mask it); > >> if something might theoretically become a security issue (xpdf) > >> then it should be masked. > >> > >> But please do not throw things out of the tree unless > >> really necessary: > >> > >> It does not hurt anybody to have such package in the tree, > >> but removing it - especially if upstream is dead - means > >> that the tarbalös will be removed from the mirrors and thus > >> nobody is able anymore to install it (even if he would care and > >> fix some minor issues) unless he had kept a copy on > >> his local machine (which will mean in the future that he can only > >> do it if he had used gentoo already many years ago and cared > >> during the time of the removal). > > > > Again I highly recommend archiving the software yourself; but I don't > > think Gentoo should be doing it. > > It costs resources: > - distfiles and all their mirrors accumulate > - emerge dependency calculation > > If it's out-waged by increasing disc capacity and processor power is up > to discussion. > > Last but not least, we have gattered some extra info besides the > tarballs, our precious ebuild scripts. Which is why I started my > involvement with Gentoo (maybe somebody should have told me about BSDs > tree before that). > > As Martin said, tarballs get lost. I steal them from debian mirror on a > regular basis, maybe we should contribute ourselves. > > PROPOSAL > > Let's create an overlay "frozen stuff" which contains all the > software no longer developed with following features: > > Users showed interest in having them > > Web-presence to be picked up on Google search. >(viewvc.cgi show dead is kinda hidden [1]) > > Separate distfile mirror >no need to stress our mirror peers >make it a sepearate repo, > feed by upstream and mirror://gentoo >I can contribute the space/bandwith. > > Feedback/Bugs/Voting can be handled inside b.g.o >no need for extra login, >frozen-bugs can be auto-generated, >whitelist [frozen] >just like the sunrise tracker bugs. > > BENEFIT > >User can choose whether or not layman -a frozen. > >Non-trivial ebuilds are preserved. > >Tarballs are preserved. > >Nobody gets hurt. Comments? > > > [1] http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/ > > -- > Michael Weber > Gentoo Developer > web: https://xmw.de/ > mailto: Michael Weber > >
Re: [gentoo-dev] "frozen" overlay Re: Please stop useless removals
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
On 02/01/2013 10:35 AM, Dennis Lan (dlan) wrote:> HI Michael:
> I can think of it's almost kind of a staging area, some package
> may be partial broken(or partial functional), but still useful for
> user.
Please see [1] for the proposal of betagarden overlay, which might
grab attention by posting a project page, @sping *plz*
> Generally speaking, It should be a good idea! The end users will
> benefit a lot.
thanks.
On 02/01/2013 10:30 AM, Sergey Popov wrote:
> Well, we can move such software to sunrise, can't we? But
> proposition of splitted mirrors makes sense, cause quite often dead
> upstream means dead links to original tarballs too.
Maybe betagarden/sunrise would benefit from mirror-coverage,
hosting situation is a recurring question on #-sunrise. Votes?
Sunrise commit access is limited to sunrise devs. And I see the _rise_
in context of software and devs.
I don't say sundown, cause for mentioned arguments, I just wanna have
functioning/maybe superseeded software around, regardless of it's
commit-frequency, author involvement or century of creation.
Again: We need to proceed as a contemporary distribution ("Does not
build with latest ~** gcc/" argument), but we can preserve our trail
for those who like.
The line between removed packages and obsoleted slots has to be drawn.
I'm in a tension between overlay scatter and providing an automated
time capsule (that certainly will mess up any of the aforementioned
repos).
[1]
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_384ad55a02bf02154397f29d10a0f68e.xml
- --
Michael Weber
Gentoo Developer
web: https://xmw.de/
mailto: Michael Weber
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Re: [gentoo-dev] "frozen" overlay Re: Please stop useless removals
On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 13:30:04 +0400 Sergey Popov wrote: > 01.02.2013 12:53, Michael Weber wrote: > > BENEFIT > > > >User can choose whether or not layman -a frozen. > > > >Non-trivial ebuilds are preserved. > > > >Tarballs are preserved. > > > >Nobody gets hurt. > > Well, we can move such software to sunrise, can't we? But proposition of > splitted mirrors makes sense, cause quite often dead upstream means dead > links to original tarballs too. No, Sunrise project has rather specific goals [1] and is certainly not supposed to be a junkyard for packages removed from Gentoo. I'd even say that packages are put in Sunrise with some hope that they will be moved to gx86 at some point, not the other way. [1]:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/sunrise/ -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] "frozen" overlay Re: Please stop useless removals
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 01/02/13 05:53 AM, Michael Weber wrote: > Sunrise commit access is limited to sunrise devs. And I see the > _rise_ in context of software and devs. I don't say sundown, ..there once was a "sunset" overlay, wasn't there? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlELwb4ACgkQ2ugaI38ACPC9xgD+NYja02p1q1tQTrTkjBBpyoop xLFmGsGcw6sUT6e4bY4A/RiMbkAM0b6nmYkhA/zfJLFqMUudTAWd8VaLB7aD9nBe =WePv -END PGP SIGNATURE-
