Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:41:52 + Bryan Østergaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | 2. There's been some concern that things said in private has been | leaked. You mean devrel still hold secret meetings behind people's backs, and say things that they don't want other developers to know? I'm shocked, I say, shocked! -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 11:08 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: You mean devrel still hold secret meetings behind people's backs, and say things that they don't want other developers to know? I'm shocked, I say, shocked! Yes, that's right, those secret meetings that you can get copies of the irc logs from by subscribing to the mailing list. Oh, the humanity! The subterfuge!! The sarcasm!!! -- -o()o-- Michael Cummings |#gentoo-dev, #gentoo-perl Gentoo Perl Dev|on irc.freenode.net Gentoo/SPARC Gentoo/AMD64 GPG: 0543 6FA3 5F82 3A76 3BF7 8323 AB5C ED4E 9E7F 4E2E -o()o-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 06:29:14 -0400 Michael Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 11:08 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | You mean devrel still hold secret meetings behind people's backs, | and say things that they don't want other developers to know? I'm | shocked, I say, shocked! | | Yes, that's right, those secret meetings that you can get copies of | the irc logs from by subscribing to the mailing list. Oh, the | humanity! The subterfuge!! The sarcasm!!! Uh, read again. You missed the point. I'm not talking about the logged meetings here. I'm talking about the goings on in a certain private IRC channel. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 06:29:14 -0400 Michael Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 11:08 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: | You mean devrel still hold secret meetings behind people's backs, | and say things that they don't want other developers to know? I'm | shocked, I say, shocked! | | Yes, that's right, those secret meetings that you can get copies of | the irc logs from by subscribing to the mailing list. Oh, the | humanity! The subterfuge!! The sarcasm!!! Uh, read again. You missed the point. I'm not talking about the logged meetings here. I'm talking about the goings on in a certain private IRC channel. You're just pissy because you weren't invited to the party. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFI8ForsJQqN81j74RAmKrAJ9D2OCqXnEo6/VcweunnAI9PRdfsQCgsnB3 E0GsGmvoQpOXEh2IJMOzZig= =RLzM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:12:56 -0700 Josh Saddler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Uh, read again. You missed the point. I'm not talking about the | logged meetings here. I'm talking about the goings on in a certain | private IRC channel. | | You're just pissy because you weren't invited to the party. Naah. As anyone in devrel will tell you, someone forwards me complete logs of the private devrel IRC channel, all the email sent to the alias and spycam footage of their orgies. Seriously though, devrel keeping things private probably isn't a good idea even if they're not using said private things to plot behind people's backs any more. Given that they've done it in the past, it only lends credibility to people who're claiming that devrel are out to get them for personal reasons... -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 12:27:30PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Uh, read again. You missed the point. I'm not talking about the logged meetings here. I'm talking about the goings on in a certain private IRC channel. It wouldn't make sense to discuss stuff that is restricted to devs/devrel in bugzilla in a public irc channel, would it? Or are those goings you are refering to something else, like wild conspiracies? If so, i'd be interested to hear what you think is happening. cheers, Wernfried -- Wernfried Haas (amne) - amne at gentoo dot org Gentoo Forums: http://forums.gentoo.org IRC: #gentoo-forums on freenode - email: forum-mods at gentoo dot org pgpBPaY6yWzja.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 15:39 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:12:56 -0700 Josh Saddler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Uh, read again. You missed the point. I'm not talking about the | logged meetings here. I'm talking about the goings on in a certain | private IRC channel. | | You're just pissy because you weren't invited to the party. Naah. As anyone in devrel will tell you, someone forwards me complete logs of the private devrel IRC channel, all the email sent to the alias and spycam footage of their orgies. Seriously though, devrel keeping things private probably isn't a good idea even if they're not using said private things to plot behind people's backs any more. Given that they've done it in the past, it only lends credibility to people who're claiming that devrel are out to get them for personal reasons... A very few discussions must be private: Consider that except for some documentation and policy, our only product is developers and the interactions among them, really. Now, if we were of one mind, there would be no problem, but we are not --- we are individuals with individual approaches and philosophies (even the log which triggered this thread might give some indications of that). Like it or not, this means that some discussions can include references to people which usually are not intended (the references; we can't speak to the history of the people), but in public might be injurious. Obviously I am not going to elaborate, but you can probably imagine situations which can set off such discussions. Now, that said, we (devrel) agree that we do too much in private, and believe it or not, we try to avoid it (I think the log contains some mention of this, too). So with the one (small, actually) exception outlined at length above, I think devrel pretty much agrees with ciaranm's observation; I believe it is our (informal) policy to work in public with -private as the exception. This doesn't mean we always observe said policy, but we are aware of the issues. For example, I refer you to ribosome's observation in the log at 20:57 and kloeri's followup at 20:57 -- 58. I should emphasize that I am speaking as an individual member of devrel, I am giving my own spin on things, and I do NOT speak here for devrel as a whole. Regards, Ferris -- Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 04:30:15PM +, Ferris McCormick wrote: A very few discussions must be private: Consider that except for some documentation and policy, our only product is developers and the interactions among them, really. Now, if we were of one mind, there would be no problem, but we are not --- we are individuals with individual approaches and philosophies (even the log which triggered this thread might give some indications of that). Like it or not, this means that some discussions can include references to people which usually are not intended (the references; we can't speak to the history of the people), but in public might be injurious. Obviously I am not going to elaborate, but you can probably imagine situations which can set off such discussions. Now, that said, we (devrel) agree that we do too much in private, and believe it or not, we try to avoid it (I think the log contains some mention of this, too). So with the one (small, actually) exception outlined at length above, I think devrel pretty much agrees with ciaranm's observation; I believe it is our (informal) policy to work in public with -private as the exception. This doesn't mean we always observe said policy, but we are aware of the issues. For example, I refer you to ribosome's observation in the log at 20:57 and kloeri's followup at 20:57 -- 58. Agreed, we should try to keep as much as possible public and ensure as much transparency as possible. That doesn't mean that there can't be things we should keep confidential however. I should emphasize that I am speaking as an individual member of devrel, I am giving my own spin on things, and I do NOT speak here for devrel as a whole. I'm speaking on behalf of devrel because I can :) Regards, Bryan Østergaard -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:12:56 -0700 Josh Saddler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Uh, read again. You missed the point. I'm not talking about the | logged meetings here. I'm talking about the goings on in a certain | private IRC channel. | | You're just pissy because you weren't invited to the party. Naah. As anyone in devrel will tell you, someone forwards me complete logs of the private devrel IRC channel, all the email sent to the alias and spycam footage of their orgies. Seriously though, devrel keeping things private probably isn't a good idea even if they're not using said private things to plot behind people's backs any more. Given that they've done it in the past, it only lends credibility to people who're claiming that devrel are out to get them for personal reasons... Let me be the first to state take action then as opposed to just complaining on list. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Changes in Developer Relations and log of devrel meeting
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 06:41:52 + Bryan Østergaard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | 2. There's been some concern that things said in private has been | leaked. You mean devrel still hold secret meetings behind people's backs, and say things that they don't want other developers to know? I'm shocked, I say, shocked! Stop with the conspiracy theories already, nobody cares. Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
