Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

> On 12/21/2016 11:23 PM, i...@gentoo.org wrote:
Why is this email sent using an invalid email addresse in FROM?

As for the rest of the email content itself, please consider the
appropriate forum for any discussion, and I strongly recommend staying
away from personal attacks.

-- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Delaney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Tue, 06 Dec 2016 23:39:00 +
Gokturk Yuksek  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
   
Lo

> 
> The mailing list for proxy-maint was created 5 months ago [0], can be
> reached by emailing gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org after
> subscribing, and the archive is located at [1].

Factual undisputed statement of factual undisputable fact. What else
to expect form a gokturk.

> 
> Regarding your comment on working with individual developers, I have
> not seen anything related to that in the project alias.

In the project alias. So *** what. The project alias is now dev
only I think I would no longer know, however, that might be a
misunderstanding on the part of the user who told me the devs made the
alias list devs only. Either way, he missed that clanger of an email
from gokturk regarding the pending return of the most 'awkward' and
menacing devs in the history of g-p-m, in late November; its former
lead who in respect of good tsate shall remain nameless. 

h yes, the project to this day has a lead developer "no-lead", the
most recent of the string of farce and embarrassment in the history of
that most tainted of gentoo projects, gentoo-proxy-maint.  It is I
would also say a fine project that deserved and deserves FAR better
than the string of dishonour that now taints it.

Regarding working with individual developers. you can talk  Was
it not you who made a targeted barrage of both bugs to QA to the
'legitimate' forum, 'per protocol' putting members of g-p-m at the
time under unwanted un-needed and most importantly undeserved  pressure
and scrutiny of commits from that 'dreadful and dishonourable' source
gentoo-proxy-maint, COMBINED with forwarding logs from PRIVATE message
source complete with breach of trust of use of PRIVATE message to the
honourable hard working radical right wing group comrel (comedy relief)
charged with upholding all that is right, desirable and clinically
impersonally piously 'perfectly' professional of the community, The
community that gave cause to one xayto to forward an email to the ML
sub entitled "Thanks for all the fish".

Also, to fill the missing key point about that email, that 'clanger'.
This fine sterile developer took it upon himself to both negatively
critique the behaviour and morals of that former lead whoever he was in
times past, then submitted a motion to extend the ban placed upon the
lead who shall remain nameless, by another 6 months, on the premiss of,
well there wasn't one really, other than that of prejudice and the
mentality of a lynch mob.

And guess who seconded the motion ... Anyone ???

> I would be more than happy 

oh what a gay chappy, in the original and traditional use of the
word, of course. One does NOT wish to offend anyone of any warped 
orientation here.

> to personally help you out with proxy-maintainership.
> 
> Thanks,
> 

keep it.

> --
> gokturk
> 
> [0] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370
> [1] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/
> 
> 

P.S. ya'll might care to respond but if you do it will not be me
reading the retorts rebuttals and more butts. I came across this by
chance and boredom

- -- 
most kind regards

Ian Delaney
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/07/2016 04:22 AM, Kristian Fiskerstrand wrote:

On 12/07/2016 06:07 AM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:


So I just now sent email to :
proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org


You likely want to check out [gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org]
instead of the project alias. The latter is restricted to Gentoo developers.

References:
[gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org]
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/



Thanks Robin. All good to know. Maybe these details and the other
aforementioned details can be clarified and documented in the wiki,
for the benefit of all to know.

hth,
James

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Kristian Fiskerstrand]

On 12/07/2016 06:07 AM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:

>> So I just now sent email to :
>> proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org

You likely want to check out [gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org]
instead of the project alias. The latter is restricted to Gentoo developers.

References:
[gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org]
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/

-- 
Kristian Fiskerstrand
OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 08:59:11PM -0500, james wrote:
> Hi, this is the Mlmmj program managing the
>  mailing list.
> 
> Somebody (and we hope it was you) has requested that your email address
>  be added to the list, without mail delivery. This
> means you will not receive any posts to the list, but you are considered 
> a member. This means, for instance, you are able to post to a list which 
> only subscribers may post to, while you follow the list using a web 
> archive or another subscribed email address.
> 
> To confirm you want to do this, please send a message to
> 
> which can usually be done simply by replying to this message. The subject
> and the body of the message can be anything.
You DID successfully subscribe to the _nomail_ version of the list on
2016/06/23.

The 'nomail' version of the list is exactly that, you are subscribed but do NOT
get mail sent back to you (the blurb as you posted it made that very clear).

# pigeon:/var/log/lists/gentoo-proxy-maint/mlmmj.operation.log:
Sun Jun 12 02:50:18 2016 mlmmj-sub: request for regular subscription from 
gar...@verizon.net
Thu Jun 23 13:13:28 2016 mlmmj-sub: request for nomail subscription from 
gar...@verizon.net
Thu Jun 23 13:21:45 2016 mlmmj-sub: gar...@verizon.net confirmed subscription 
to nomail

Did you perhaps mean to subscribe to the normal version of the mailing list
instead, so that you do get emails from the list?

You never confirmed the first request from June 12, so you weren't on regular 
version.

> So I just now sent email to :
> proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org
As others pointed out, this is a mail alias, NOT a list. Membership is editable
by all gentoo developers; but you cannot simply subscribe like you tried (all
of them should have gotten your email).

If you want to be added, you need to contact a developer or file a bug for that
team.

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Trustee & Treasurer
E-Mail   : robb...@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/06/2016 09:52 PM, Sam Jorna wrote:

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 09:44:12PM -0500, james wrote:

On 12/06/2016 09:09 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:


James


With the creation of the Mentors project
(https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Mentors) a bit of clarification
has occurred to help prospective developers outside the IRC and/or
proxy-maintainers project).


Am I to understand that the 'Mentors' are a pathway to gaining
gentoo-dev status (still the same requirements) but I do not have to use
IRC to communicate with whomever?


In order to become a Gentoo developer you do need a mentor[0]. If
instead you're only looking to proxy-maintain a package(s), you can work
either through the Proxy Maintainers project or directly with a
developer (if they're the maintainer).


If so; Halaluyah! and count me in. I hate irc, with a passion, just so
you know.


How you communicate with your mentor is up to you and your mentor. Going
through the recruitment [0]process does require a review session which,
as far as I know, is only held on IRC, but otherwise it's up to you to
organise what medium you use.


The Recruiters project page contains links
to the current quizzes (linked therein).

hth.




On this page, the string 'quiz' occurs (3) times. I find no links to the
current quizes?

Did I miss something?


The links to the quizzes are [1]here.

[0] 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Recruiters#What_does_the_recruitment_process_involve.3F
[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Recruiters#Current_quizzes



Thanks guys. I'm going to finish up the new quizzes on my own.
Perhaps you guys should 'draw straws' so in a few weeks/months
we can rapidly complete the dev application process. Ive got over 2 
years on this off and on.


I promise to present at lest 10 ebuilds as a body of work (EAPI-6 OK?)? 
Yes I do prefer email over irc. If you force irc on me, then I think it 
would be nice to have a streamlined method so the instant I fire it up, 
it is secure and I do not have to haggle with interlopers via the channel.


I'm not a fan of 'gang rape' either, so hopefully irc channel comes
complete with manners and respect, regardless of who has what technical 
acumen over the others? Is that too much to ask? Really, for someone 
like me, it is just best to avoid irc.



James

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Sam Jorna]

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 09:37:55PM -0500, james wrote:
> >> I subscribe on 6/23/2016::
> >>
> >> From:: gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org
> >>
> >
> > This is the correct address and as it noted, you should get a
> > confirmation/welcome email when you've successfully subscribed. Did you
> > get this?
> 
> YES, back on 6/23/2016 It never functioned correctly for me.
> I think everyone switched to the new list, which I never heard about.
> 
> 
> And here is the reply::
> 
> gentoo-proxy-maint+confsub-nomail-75dc5ad5188e6314-garftd=verizon@lists.gentoo.org
> 
> on 6/23/2016 10:21am
> 
> 
> 
> So do I need to apply again, or an I on the list? I went (nomail) cause 
> at the time reading via gmane.org was working. Perhaps I should just 
> change the status to receive the mails?   I can test post, if that is 
> helpful?

I can see you've posted something to the list just now.

If you need to reconfigure your settings so it mails you, send a mail to 
gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org to see [0]options.

[0] https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/instructions.html

-- 
Sam Jorna (wraeth)
GnuPG Key: D6180C26


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/06/2016 09:20 PM, Sam Jorna wrote:

On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 01:17:54PM +1100, Sam Jorna wrote:

have a look at the new [0]Mentors project, or even send a mail to -dev


I forgot the link, sorry:

[0] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Mentors




On this page, the string 'quiz' occurs (3) times. I find no links to the 
current quizes?


Did I miss something?

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Sam Jorna]

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 09:44:12PM -0500, james wrote:
> On 12/06/2016 09:09 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
> 
> >> James
> >>
> > With the creation of the Mentors project
> > (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Mentors) a bit of clarification
> > has occurred to help prospective developers outside the IRC and/or
> > proxy-maintainers project).
> 
> Am I to understand that the 'Mentors' are a pathway to gaining 
> gentoo-dev status (still the same requirements) but I do not have to use
> IRC to communicate with whomever?

In order to become a Gentoo developer you do need a mentor[0]. If 
instead you're only looking to proxy-maintain a package(s), you can work 
either through the Proxy Maintainers project or directly with a 
developer (if they're the maintainer).

> If so; Halaluyah! and count me in. I hate irc, with a passion, just so 
> you know.

How you communicate with your mentor is up to you and your mentor. Going 
through the recruitment [0]process does require a review session which, 
as far as I know, is only held on IRC, but otherwise it's up to you to 
organise what medium you use.

> > The Recruiters project page contains links
> > to the current quizzes (linked therein).
> >
> > hth.
> 
> 
> 
> On this page, the string 'quiz' occurs (3) times. I find no links to the 
> current quizes?
> 
> Did I miss something?

The links to the quizzes are [1]here.

[0] 
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Recruiters#What_does_the_recruitment_process_involve.3F
[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Recruiters#Current_quizzes

-- 
Sam Jorna (wraeth)
GnuPG Key: D6180C26


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[M. J. Everitt]

On 07/12/16 02:44, james wrote:
>
> On this page, the string 'quiz' occurs (3) times. I find no links to
> the current quizes?
>
> Did I miss something?
>
> James
>
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Recruiters#Current_quizzes



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Matthias Maier]

On Tue, Dec  6, 2016, at 20:37 CST, james  wrote:

> So do I need to apply again, or an I on the list? I went (nomail)
> cause at the time reading via gmane.org was working. Perhaps I should
> just change the status to receive the mails?   I can test post, if
> that is helpful?

No, the list is simply dead (was never used in any meaningful way
anyway).

You can read the whole 3 e-mails over the last 5 months here [1]

Best,
Matthias


[1] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/06/2016 09:09 PM, M. J. Everitt wrote:


James


With the creation of the Mentors project
(https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Mentors) a bit of clarification
has occurred to help prospective developers outside the IRC and/or
proxy-maintainers project).


Am I to understand that the 'Mentors' are a pathway to gaining 
gentoo-dev status (still the same requirements) but I do not have to use

IRC to communicate with whomever?

If so; Halaluyah! and count me in. I hate irc, with a passion, just so 
you know.




The Recruiters project page contains links
to the current quizzes (linked therein).

hth.




On this page, the string 'quiz' occurs (3) times. I find no links to the 
current quizes?


Did I miss something?

James

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/06/2016 09:17 PM, Sam Jorna wrote:

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 08:59:11PM -0500, james wrote:

On 12/06/2016 07:29 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:13:12PM -0500, james wrote:

A while back, we we were promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy
folks that did not get on well with IRC. It never materialized,

The mail alias proxy-ma...@gentoo.org (same alias as proxy-maintainers@)
has 22 people on it. It was created 2013/09/26.

The list gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org was created 2016/05/29.
I don't see much usage of it, nobody has emailed since August.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/

The request for it was filed and tracked here:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370

How exactly is that never materialized?




I subscribe on 6/23/2016::

From:: gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org



This is the correct address and as it noted, you should get a
confirmation/welcome email when you've successfully subscribed. Did you
get this?


YES, back on 6/23/2016 It never functioned correctly for me.
I think everyone switched to the new list, which I never heard about.


And here is the reply::

gentoo-proxy-maint+confsub-nomail-75dc5ad5188e6314-garftd=verizon@lists.gentoo.org

on 6/23/2016 10:21am



So do I need to apply again, or an I on the list? I went (nomail) cause 
at the time reading via gmane.org was working. Perhaps I should just 
change the status to receive the mails?   I can test post, if that is 
helpful?





Keep in mind, also, that as Robin noted above, the list has been very
quiet and will remain that way until people start using it.


So I just now sent email to :
proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org


This is not the mailing list address, but the alias for the Proxy
Maintainers project - you can't subscribe to this. That being said, I
couldn't see this email in my client.


NO answer on this attempt. ON this page::
https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html


The gentoo-proxy-maint mailing list was indeed missing from that list
and has just been added thanks to Robin.


Oh yea, I emailed those quizes timely to one of the devs I was working
with, and got no answer. (sorry, not going to identify that dev). So I
prefer to answer the latest quizes; you guys can figure out who I
should send those to.


It's unfortunate that this happened.

As for whom to send your quizzes to, they would go to your mentor. If
you don't have a mentor, try approaching a developer with whom you've
been working and see if they will be able to. Alternatively, you can
have a look at the new [0]Mentors project, or even send a mail to -dev
asking for one.


I've had (5) mentor/sponsers. All quite friendly. Several wanted to just 
put me up for dev. I am flexible, but, I've been put through the ringer 
over a (2) year period.  That's why when I hear about a kid, whom 
gaining gentoo dev status would be most benefical, getting hood-winked 
and ran around, I tend to believe their stories; and that angers me.




I look forward to having another contributor among the ranks. :)

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Mart Raudsepp]

Ühel kenal päeval, T, 06.12.2016 kell 20:59, kirjutas james:
> 
> So I just now sent email to :
> proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org
> 
> 
> NO answer on this attempt. ON this page::
> https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html
> 
> All I see is: gentoo-proxy-maint
> 
> Am I subscribe?  Did I miss the exact syntax to get subscribed?
> 
> Perhaps proxy-ma...@gentoo.org needs to be listed with the rest of
> the mailing lists?

proxy-ma...@gentoo.org is a mail alias, not a mailing list, you can't
subscribe to that.
gentoo-proxy-ma...@gentoo.org is the mailing list.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Sam Jorna]

On Wed, Dec 07, 2016 at 01:17:54PM +1100, Sam Jorna wrote:
> have a look at the new [0]Mentors project, or even send a mail to -dev 

I forgot the link, sorry:

[0] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Mentors

-- 
Sam Jorna (wraeth)
GnuPG Key: D6180C26


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Sam Jorna]

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 08:59:11PM -0500, james wrote:
> On 12/06/2016 07:29 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:13:12PM -0500, james wrote:
> >> A while back, we we were promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy
> >> folks that did not get on well with IRC. It never materialized,
> > The mail alias proxy-ma...@gentoo.org (same alias as proxy-maintainers@)
> > has 22 people on it. It was created 2013/09/26.
> >
> > The list gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org was created 2016/05/29.
> > I don't see much usage of it, nobody has emailed since August.
> > https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/
> >
> > The request for it was filed and tracked here:
> > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370
> >
> > How exactly is that never materialized?
> >
> 
> 
> I subscribe on 6/23/2016::
> 
> From:: gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org
> 

This is the correct address and as it noted, you should get a 
confirmation/welcome email when you've successfully subscribed. Did you 
get this?

Keep in mind, also, that as Robin noted above, the list has been very 
quiet and will remain that way until people start using it.

> So I just now sent email to :
> proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org

This is not the mailing list address, but the alias for the Proxy 
Maintainers project - you can't subscribe to this. That being said, I 
couldn't see this email in my client.

> NO answer on this attempt. ON this page::
> https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html

The gentoo-proxy-maint mailing list was indeed missing from that list 
and has just been added thanks to Robin.

> Oh yea, I emailed those quizes timely to one of the devs I was working 
> with, and got no answer. (sorry, not going to identify that dev). So I 
> prefer to answer the latest quizes; you guys can figure out who I 
> should send those to.

It's unfortunate that this happened.

As for whom to send your quizzes to, they would go to your mentor. If 
you don't have a mentor, try approaching a developer with whom you've 
been working and see if they will be able to. Alternatively, you can 
have a look at the new [0]Mentors project, or even send a mail to -dev 
asking for one.

I look forward to having another contributor among the ranks. :)

-- 
Sam Jorna (wraeth)
GnuPG Key: D6180C26


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[M. J. Everitt]

On 07/12/16 01:59, james wrote:
> On 12/06/2016 07:29 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:13:12PM -0500, james wrote:
>>> A while back, we we were promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy
>>> folks that did not get on well with IRC. It never materialized,
>> The mail alias proxy-ma...@gentoo.org (same alias as proxy-maintainers@)
>> has 22 people on it. It was created 2013/09/26.
>>
>> The list gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org was created 2016/05/29.
>> I don't see much usage of it, nobody has emailed since August.
>> https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/
>>
>> The request for it was filed and tracked here:
>> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370
>>
>> How exactly is that never materialized?
>>
>
>
> I subscribe on 6/23/2016::
>
> From:: gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org
>
> gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org
>
>
>
> Hi, this is the Mlmmj program managing the
>  mailing list.
>
> Somebody (and we hope it was you) has requested that your email address
>  be added to the list, without mail delivery. This
> means you will not receive any posts to the list, but you are
> considered a member. This means, for instance, you are able to post to
> a list which only subscribers may post to, while you follow the list
> using a web archive or another subscribed email address.
>
> To confirm you want to do this, please send a message to
> 
>
> which can usually be done simply by replying to this message. The subject
> and the body of the message can be anything.
>
> After doing so, you should receive a reply informing you that the
> operation
> succeeded.
>
>
> And here is the reply::
>
> gentoo-proxy-maint+confsub-nomail-75dc5ad5188e6314-garftd=verizon@lists.gentoo.org
>
>
> on 6/23/2016 10:21am
>
> .
>
>
>
>
> So I just now sent email to :
> proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org
>
>
> NO answer on this attempt. ON this page::
> https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html
>
> All I see is: gentoo-proxy-maint
>
> Am I subscribe?  Did I miss the exact syntax to get subscribed?
>
> Perhaps proxy-ma...@gentoo.org needs to be listed with the rest of
> the mailing lists?
>
>
>
> let's see if that one goes through (nothing after 10 minutes).
>
>
> My goal is to read that list and publish documents on what is exactly
> needed to get dev status. I think it's not a good idea to force folks
> to use irc to learn about proxy-maint, get help on ebuilds when you
> need it so there should be a nice set of document and tests one can
> work through, without intervention. Then take the quizes and be
> treated like an outcast for a while, before being able to work the
> portage tree. I am not interested in anything core to gentoo. I am
> extremely
> interested in building minimized cluster ebuilds and wrapping them up
> in stage-4s for ease of installation. Really, nothing threatening at all.
>
>
>
> I already finished up both quiz, including the second(exit) one, but
> there was a few question that were incomplete.
> That was all right befor Goktuk did his revision work, so I'd like to
> answer the updated quized, as most of the questions, when I answered,
> were not even up to EAPI-5. Where are the quiz questions.
>
>
> Oh yea, I emailed those quizes timely to one of the devs I was working
> with, and got no answer. (sorry, not going to identify that dev). So I
> prefer to answer the latest quizes; you guys can figure out who I
> should send those to.
>
>
>
>
>  I never got any mail from the list. I could see a few postings via
> gmane.org. Sure, gmane is mostly dysfunctional now.  I never saw or
> any information on the second list
>
>
> James
>
With the creation of the Mentors project
(https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Mentors) a bit of clarification
has occurred to help prospective developers outside the IRC and/or
proxy-maintainers project). The Recruiters project page contains links
to the current quizzes (linked therein).

hth.



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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/06/2016 07:29 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:13:12PM -0500, james wrote:

A while back, we we were promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy
folks that did not get on well with IRC. It never materialized,

The mail alias proxy-ma...@gentoo.org (same alias as proxy-maintainers@)
has 22 people on it. It was created 2013/09/26.

The list gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org was created 2016/05/29.
I don't see much usage of it, nobody has emailed since August.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/

The request for it was filed and tracked here:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370

How exactly is that never materialized?




I subscribe on 6/23/2016::

From:: gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org

gentoo-proxy-maint+h...@lists.gentoo.org



Hi, this is the Mlmmj program managing the
 mailing list.

Somebody (and we hope it was you) has requested that your email address
 be added to the list, without mail delivery. This
means you will not receive any posts to the list, but you are considered 
a member. This means, for instance, you are able to post to a list which 
only subscribers may post to, while you follow the list using a web 
archive or another subscribed email address.


To confirm you want to do this, please send a message to

which can usually be done simply by replying to this message. The subject
and the body of the message can be anything.

After doing so, you should receive a reply informing you that the operation
succeeded.


And here is the reply::

gentoo-proxy-maint+confsub-nomail-75dc5ad5188e6314-garftd=verizon@lists.gentoo.org

on 6/23/2016 10:21am

.




So I just now sent email to :
proxy-maint+subscr...@gentoo.org


NO answer on this attempt. ON this page::
https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/mailing-lists/all-lists.html

All I see is: gentoo-proxy-maint

Am I subscribe?  Did I miss the exact syntax to get subscribed?

Perhaps proxy-ma...@gentoo.org needs to be listed with the rest of
the mailing lists?



let's see if that one goes through (nothing after 10 minutes).


My goal is to read that list and publish documents on what is exactly 
needed to get dev status. I think it's not a good idea to force folks to 
use irc to learn about proxy-maint, get help on ebuilds when you need it 
so there should be a nice set of document and tests one can work 
through, without intervention. Then take the quizes and be treated like 
an outcast for a while, before being able to work the portage tree. I am 
not interested in anything core to gentoo. I am extremely

interested in building minimized cluster ebuilds and wrapping them up
in stage-4s for ease of installation. Really, nothing threatening at all.



I already finished up both quiz, including the second(exit) one, but 
there was a few question that were incomplete.

That was all right befor Goktuk did his revision work, so I'd like to
answer the updated quized, as most of the questions, when I answered,
were not even up to EAPI-5. Where are the quiz questions.


Oh yea, I emailed those quizes timely to one of the devs I was working 
with, and got no answer. (sorry, not going to identify that dev). So I 
prefer to answer the latest quizes; you guys can figure out who I should 
send those to.





 I never got any mail from the list. I could see a few postings via 
gmane.org. Sure, gmane is mostly dysfunctional now.  I never saw or any 
information on the second list



James

Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Robin H. Johnson]

On Tue, Dec 06, 2016 at 01:13:12PM -0500, james wrote:
> A while back, we we were promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy
> folks that did not get on well with IRC. It never materialized, 
The mail alias proxy-ma...@gentoo.org (same alias as proxy-maintainers@)
has 22 people on it. It was created 2013/09/26.

The list gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org was created 2016/05/29.
I don't see much usage of it, nobody has emailed since August.
https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/

The request for it was filed and tracked here:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370

How exactly is that never materialized?

-- 
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Dev, Infra Lead, Foundation Trustee & Treasurer
E-Mail   : robb...@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11ACBA4F 4778E3F6 E4EDF38E B27B944E 34884E85
GnuPG FP : 7D0B3CEB E9B85B1F 825BCECF EE05E6F6 A48F6136


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[Gokturk Yuksek]

Hi,

james:
> On 12/06/2016 11:35 AM, Craig Inches wrote:
>> Hi,
> 
>> I have decided to stop involvement with the Project as a proxied
>> maintainer, and to stop pursuing becoming a developer. Two main
>> reasons for this, one the community is at times openly hostile on the
>> mailing lists and IRC, of which I have asked people on IRC about whom
>> have responded this is the norm(once in awhile vents is fine it
>> happens but this has been consistently visible) this is ignoring
>> cultural differences that may cause misunderstanding; Secondly the
>> community is very insular and unwelcoming to new comers.
> 
> Sadly, you are at least partially correct. Thick skin should be listed
> as a requirement to participate with Gentoo.  A while back, we we were
> promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy folks that did not get on
> well with IRC. It never materialized, so I too cut my losses with irc
> as a blocker to becoming a gentoo dev. Also, I've has several folks
> promise to work with individually to obtain proxy status, but they all
> just disappear. No doubt, back_channel chatter from some jaded devs
> greased that relationship.
> 

The mailing list for proxy-maint was created 5 months ago [0], can be
reached by emailing gentoo-proxy-ma...@lists.gentoo.org after
subscribing, and the archive is located at [1].

Regarding your comment on working with individual developers, I have not
seen anything related to that in the project alias. I would be more than
happy to personally help you out with proxy-maintainership.

Thanks,

--
gokturk

[0] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581370
[1] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proxy-maint/




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Re: [gentoo-dev] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish

[james]

On 12/06/2016 11:35 AM, Craig Inches wrote:

Hi,



I have decided to stop involvement with the Project as a proxied
maintainer, and to stop pursuing becoming a developer. Two main
reasons for this, one the community is at times openly hostile on the
mailing lists and IRC, of which I have asked people on IRC about whom
have responded this is the norm(once in awhile vents is fine it
happens but this has been consistently visible) this is ignoring
cultural differences that may cause misunderstanding; Secondly the
community is very insular and unwelcoming to new comers.


Sadly, you are at least partially correct. Thick skin should be listed 
as a requirement to participate with Gentoo.  A while back, we we were 
promised an email channel for gentoo-proxy folks that did not get on 
well with IRC. It never materialized, so I too cut my losses with irc

as a blocker to becoming a gentoo dev. Also, I've has several folks
promise to work with individually to obtain proxy status, but they all
just disappear. No doubt, back_channel chatter from some jaded devs 
greased that relationship.


So, I've been planing to just have my own repo, work on ebuilds as
I like (actually accumulated close to 50 now) and F those a.holes
Then along comes Anna:: what a breath of fresh are and wisdom beyond
her years (see her recent post on gentoo-dev), if you have not already
done so.



In twelve months of working with people only 2 have actively
encouraged involvement (shout out to Idella4 and pacho for this), some
projects didn't respond, or if they did they provided no details or
feedback to those of us who where new and trying to contribute. I
don't want to mention names about the negatives because I don't blame
the individuals; it too me seems to be systemic within the community.
I have a few comments about how I think you could improve things, but
feel free to ignore they are offered in the spirit of constructive
criticism:



Review your CoC, its open to abuse as pointed out on another thread.
Enforcement of rules should be consistent.
Review your recruitment strategies, and framework for contribution.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ might be of interest to some
posters! construct a well reason argument - but be prepared to
reconsider!
Finally encourage Active involvement from all Developers in Gentoo
matters not just in their packages, apathy is your worst enemy



I have updated one outstanding ticket for bugzilla from last week that
was assigned to me as maintainer wanted, and will shortly put through
a pull request on github which updates the meta data for bugzilla and
displaycal removing me as a maintainer.



To end on a positive note, I was a user for many years and will
continue for the short term at the very least as I think the concept
of gentoo is great.


Anna Wilcox has proposed some new and invigorating ideas so that all of 
gentoo may prosper from the splintering into the various gentoo derived 
distributions. In fact I sincerely hope that her ideas are coalesced 
into a GLEP and that forking gentoo, (which is already a meta_distro) is 
rigorously supported and encouraged and stream-lined. I just hope those 
sailing the Gentoo ship, learn some humility and how to assimilate the 
best of the ideas from the various gentoo-derived distros back into 
gentoo proper. CoreOS is a very rich source of materials and ideas, ripe 
for integration back into gentoo-proper, imho;ymmv.


My research on Anna yields a deep wisdom and I have found new reasons 
for joy, related to gentoo, because of her (team) vision. Perhaps you 
should at least go and view www.adelielinux.org.


She is definitely of leadership quality, with impeccable vision and 
manners. I for one, know I can only dream about such qualities, but I'm 
old and cantankerous and fit right in here at gentoo, with the strong 
collective of 'old  bastards'.


P.S. Never give up on Gentoo, as that would be unwise, imho.


Peace and Best of luck to you, Craig.

James



Cheers,
Craig