Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 18:09:47 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > On Mon, 2019-03-18 at 19:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:09:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > > > > > > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > > > > (#656378). Current > > > > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those > > > > > > > > legacy > > > > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older > > > > > > > > proprietary > > > > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > > > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is > > > > > > > > included in > > > > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that > > > > > > > > because it > > > > > > > > causes many issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 > > > > > > > works > > > > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium > > > > > > > Nine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have any data to support that? Or is it 'obvious'? > > > > > > > > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old > > > > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the > > > > same box via wine-d3d9. > > > > > > > > > > That's not really a data point. Unless you can actually test it (or > > > otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely > > > complaining that you can't use the faster solution. > > > > > > I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're > > > stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from- > > > complete OSS drivers. However, that doesn't prove that the native > > > version would be faster at all. > > > > If wine-based version does not work, its performance is zero. That's > > why the native version is faster. > > > > Wrong. If it doesn't work, it consumes very little CPU/GPU cycles. > Therefore, it is much more efficient than the working version. But it hangs, consuming all CPU cycles possible. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgp_y7DzD0kOU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Mon, 2019-03-18 at 19:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:09:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > > > > > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). > > > > > > > > Current > > > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those > > > > > > > legacy > > > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older > > > > > > > proprietary > > > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that > > > > > > > because it > > > > > > > causes many issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > > > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 > > > > > > works > > > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium > > > > > > Nine. > > > > > > > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have any data to support that? Or is it 'obvious'? > > > > > > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old > > > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the > > > same box via wine-d3d9. > > > > > > > That's not really a data point. Unless you can actually test it (or > > otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely > > complaining that you can't use the faster solution. > > > > I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're > > stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from- > > complete OSS drivers. However, that doesn't prove that the native > > version would be faster at all. > > If wine-based version does not work, its performance is zero. That's > why the native version is faster. > Wrong. If it doesn't work, it consumes very little CPU/GPU cycles. Therefore, it is much more efficient than the working version. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 16:09:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > > > > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). > > > > > > > Current > > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that > > > > > > because it > > > > > > causes many issues. > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works > > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium > > > > > Nine. > > > > > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have any data to support that? Or is it 'obvious'? > > > > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old > > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the > > same box via wine-d3d9. > > > > That's not really a data point. Unless you can actually test it (or > otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely > complaining that you can't use the faster solution. > > I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're > stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from- > complete OSS drivers. However, that doesn't prove that the native > version would be faster at all. If wine-based version does not work, its performance is zero. That's why the native version is faster. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpJ9MQEEaihv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Sun, 2019-03-17 at 11:30 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > > > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). > > > > > > Current > > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because > > > > > it > > > > > causes many issues. > > > > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works > > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine. > > > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. > > > > > > > Do you have any data to support that? Or is it 'obvious'? > > Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old > box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the > same box via wine-d3d9. > That's not really a data point. Unless you can actually test it (or otherwise prove that it would be slower if it worked), you're merely complaining that you can't use the faster solution. I'm sorry that you've bought non-OSS-friendly video card and now you're stuck with the choice between awful proprietary drivers and far-from- complete OSS drivers. However, that doesn't prove that the native version would be faster at all. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:38:48 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). > > > > > Current > > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it > > > > causes many issues. > > > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works > > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine. > > > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. > > > > Do you have any data to support that? Or is it 'obvious'? Yes, I have. Because Half-Life 2 on native steam works on my old box with GF 7300 and Athlon-XP and does not work at all on the same box via wine-d3d9. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpAKr_tgIuRZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 13:14 +0300, Andrew Savchenko wrote: > On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). Current > > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it > > > causes many issues. > > > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works > > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine. > > Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. > Do you have any data to support that? Or is it 'obvious'? Because apparently Portal works faster via wine-d3d9 than natively [1]. Sometimes a thin 'emulation' of good API may yield better results than use of a poor API. [1]:https://wiki.ixit.cz/d3d9 -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). Current > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it > > causes many issues. > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine. That is even more viable now that Steam can be forced to use Proton but I still choose native, as I'm sure many would. > > If you want me to maintain this version then I can do that. If it's > > otherwise causing real issues by being in the tree then I could move it > > to steam-overlay but I'd rather not. There may be non-Steam use cases. > > Yeah, moving to Steam overlay is what I'd suggest. However, you want to > talk to crypto@ people since they flagged it for removal. Will do. -- James Le Cuirot (chewi) Gentoo Linux Developer pgp_aH129L4Ek.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 10:35:18 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > > Michał Górny wrote: > > > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). Current > > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it > > causes many issues. > > I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native > executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works > perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine. Because native code works faster than API emulation via wine. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpiKuOiQn6T8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Sat, 2019-03-16 at 09:31 +, James Le Cuirot wrote: > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 > Michał Górny wrote: > > > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). Current > > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > > dev-util/staruml-bin > > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* > > I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy > libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary > software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by > Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in > the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it > causes many issues. I don't understand why would you want to run some proprietary native executables requiring obsolete libraries on your system when HL2 works perfectly via wine, and gets a nice performance boost via Gallium Nine. > If you want me to maintain this version then I can do that. If it's > otherwise causing real issues by being in the tree then I could move it > to steam-overlay but I'd rather not. There may be non-Steam use cases. Yeah, moving to Steam overlay is what I'd suggest. However, you want to talk to crypto@ people since they flagged it for removal. -- Best regards, Michał Górny signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-util/staruml-bin
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 10:23:00 +0100 Michał Górny wrote: > # Michał Górny (15 Mar 2019) > # Last reverse dependency of dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* (#656378). Current > # version is outdated, maintainer is MIA and the new versions are > # in distro-unfriendly AppImage format (#661740). > # Removal in 30 days. Bug #677486. > dev-util/staruml-bin > =dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.5* I don't care about staruml-bin but libgcrypt is one of those legacy libraries that would be helpful to keep around for older proprietary software that is not in the tree. In particular, it is used by Half-Life 2 and Portal, not exactly obscure games. It is included in the Steam runtime but we highly recommend against using that because it causes many issues. If you want me to maintain this version then I can do that. If it's otherwise causing real issues by being in the tree then I could move it to steam-overlay but I'd rather not. There may be non-Steam use cases. -- James Le Cuirot (chewi) Gentoo Linux Developer pgpvwD8hUHHb4.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
