Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
- Original Message - From: "Mickey Mullin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates > SN wrote: > > As soon as gentoo starts to create scripts for any crap I switch again to > > another distro, the advantage of not having tools for anything is, that > > those tools can't break. > > Look at Suse RedHat Mandrake, 30% of their bugs come from the tools they > > wrote. > > Having tools available doesn't mean that you are required to use them. > I don't use RedHat any more, but when I *was*, I would edit > configuration files by hand rather than use the tools provided with the > distro. One, I don't like installing a GUI on a server (it seems that > the graphical configuration tools are better known in later RH > versions). Two, if I have to first find and then read about a tool that > simply writes text to a file, I'd rather edit the file by hand. I find > that easier. (Finding distro-specific config tools is much more > difficult on a CLI, since you can't just browse to "System Tools" in the > application menu.) > > However, there are probably hundreds or thousands of people using those > tools in place of file editing. Seriously, do you still append users to > the end of /etc/passwd with vi, or do you use "useradd"? (I do both, > depending on circumstances.) Well there are already lots of distros out there, that can satisfy the need for guid tools and people that are looking for a windows like config use mandrake or suse. Just ask Gentoo users why they switched, it is definitely not because they wanted everything done with tools. > > mickey > > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
:-) I do not like to start flame, but ... in case u are so strong against scripts and tools, u have to use your own linux from scratch, because portage system is also such a tool on which everything starts and ends. U really can't say emerge is bugless ... do u ? I also don't thing gentoo needs tools/scripts for everything ... just because KISS technology is still the more secure one. But in some cases if I compare pros and cons I wolud say, scripts are very usefull ... Did u ever install qmail + vpopmail + courier-imap + spamassassin + lot of patches + lot of other tools on redhat from sources? If yes, u shell understand what I like to say. I'll stop to use linux (not only gentoo) if the only way to configure it remains GUI clicker, but hope this never happens :-) noro SN wrote: Well guys if you have a good solution, then bring it up to the developer, but writing a script for every shit and putting it into portage is not what I want, gentoo is still lean but mean, if you have problems with manually checking those kind of files after emerge, I think you are not using the right distro. I updated baselayout once, so I checked those files, I think it is no big deal, it even forces me to check if there were any changes or improvements. As soon as gentoo starts to create scripts for any crap I switch again to another distro, the advantage of not having tools for anything is, that those tools can't break. Look at Suse RedHat Mandrake, 30% of their bugs come from the tools they wrote. - Original Message - From: "Norbert Kamenicky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates SN wrote: - Original Message - From: "Andy Arbon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "gentoo-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates Hello, I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if anything is being done with etc-update or the baselayout package to stop it pointlessly trying up update a load of configuration files that I'm never going to let it touch every time it is updated? It seems like baselayout's changed quite regularly recently (this is in the x86 branch) and every time it does I get asked to update: 1) /etc/DIR_COLORS 2) /etc/devfsd.conf 3) /etc/fstab 4) /etc/group 5) /etc/passwd 6) /etc/rc.conf 7) /etc/shadow 8) /etc/conf.d/net 9) /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 Aside from rc.conf and maybe devfsd.conf I can't think of a single one of those that should ever be replaced or merged with a vanilla copy. In fact with most of them accidentally replacing the file with a vanilla one would be somewhere between an annoyance and a major headache. What if baselayout introduces a new group or user Think about it. In that case it should be done by script, which at first checks the presence of the new user and then adds it to the copy of existing system passwd file (if necessary). I am sorry, but I thing, that adding a new user by replaceing passwd file with new uniform passwd file (from baselayout), which do not fit to any configured system (except of just installed one) is a the most stupid way how it can be done. And I am sure that it's not only my opinion. Happy New Year to everybody! noro -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 16:28:19 -0500, Mickey Mullin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >the end of /etc/passwd with vi, or do you use "useradd"? (I do both, >depending on circumstances.) Actually I do that almost always, because I don' t do that to often, it' s easy to do, and it's much more hassle to lookup the appropriate comandlineoptions. Entry in /etc/passwd in /etc/shadow and creating the user. Eventually in /etc/groups and that's it. If you know the options by heart then its convinient to use such a tool, though. -- Gerhard Gruber Maintainer of SoftICE for Linux - http://sourceforge.net/projects/pice Fast application launcher - http://sourceforge.net/projects/launchmenu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
SN wrote: As soon as gentoo starts to create scripts for any crap I switch again to another distro, the advantage of not having tools for anything is, that those tools can't break. Look at Suse RedHat Mandrake, 30% of their bugs come from the tools they wrote. Having tools available doesn't mean that you are required to use them. I don't use RedHat any more, but when I *was*, I would edit configuration files by hand rather than use the tools provided with the distro. One, I don't like installing a GUI on a server (it seems that the graphical configuration tools are better known in later RH versions). Two, if I have to first find and then read about a tool that simply writes text to a file, I'd rather edit the file by hand. I find that easier. (Finding distro-specific config tools is much more difficult on a CLI, since you can't just browse to "System Tools" in the application menu.) However, there are probably hundreds or thousands of people using those tools in place of file editing. Seriously, do you still append users to the end of /etc/passwd with vi, or do you use "useradd"? (I do both, depending on circumstances.) mickey -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
Well guys if you have a good solution, then bring it up to the developer, but writing a script for every shit and putting it into portage is not what I want, gentoo is still lean but mean, if you have problems with manually checking those kind of files after emerge, I think you are not using the right distro. I updated baselayout once, so I checked those files, I think it is no big deal, it even forces me to check if there were any changes or improvements. As soon as gentoo starts to create scripts for any crap I switch again to another distro, the advantage of not having tools for anything is, that those tools can't break. Look at Suse RedHat Mandrake, 30% of their bugs come from the tools they wrote. - Original Message - From: "Norbert Kamenicky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates > SN wrote: > > - Original Message - > > From: "Andy Arbon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "gentoo-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:38 PM > > Subject: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates > > > > > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if anything is being done with > >>etc-update or the baselayout package to stop it pointlessly trying up > >>update a load of configuration files that I'm never going to let it > >>touch every time it is updated? > >> > >>It seems like baselayout's changed quite regularly recently (this is in > >>the x86 branch) and every time it does I get asked to update: > >>1) /etc/DIR_COLORS > >>2) /etc/devfsd.conf > >>3) /etc/fstab > >>4) /etc/group > >>5) /etc/passwd > >>6) /etc/rc.conf > >>7) /etc/shadow > >>8) /etc/conf.d/net > >>9) /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 > >> > >>Aside from rc.conf and maybe devfsd.conf I can't think of a single one > >>of those that should ever be replaced or merged with a vanilla copy. In > >>fact with most of them accidentally replacing the file with a vanilla > >>one would be somewhere between an annoyance and a major headache. > > > > > > What if baselayout introduces a new group or user > > Think about it. > > In that case it should be done by script, which at first checks > the presence of the new user and then adds it to the copy of > existing system passwd file (if necessary). > > I am sorry, but I thing, that adding a new user by replaceing > passwd file with new uniform passwd file (from baselayout), > which do not fit to any configured system (except of just > installed one) is a the most stupid way how it can be done. > And I am sure that it's not only my opinion. > > Happy New Year to everybody! > > noro > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:53:26 +0100 Norbert Kamenicky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > SN wrote: > > - Original Message - > > From: "Andy Arbon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "gentoo-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:38 PM > > Subject: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates > > > > > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if anything is being done > >with>etc-update or the baselayout package to stop it pointlessly > >trying up>update a load of configuration files that I'm never going > >to let it>touch every time it is updated? > >> > >>It seems like baselayout's changed quite regularly recently (this is > >in>the x86 branch) and every time it does I get asked to update: > >>1) /etc/DIR_COLORS > >>2) /etc/devfsd.conf > >>3) /etc/fstab > >>4) /etc/group > >>5) /etc/passwd > >>6) /etc/rc.conf > >>7) /etc/shadow > >>8) /etc/conf.d/net > >>9) /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 > >> > >>Aside from rc.conf and maybe devfsd.conf I can't think of a single > >one>of those that should ever be replaced or merged with a vanilla > >copy. In>fact with most of them accidentally replacing the file with > >a vanilla>one would be somewhere between an annoyance and a major > >headache. > > > > > > What if baselayout introduces a new group or user > > Think about it. > > In that case it should be done by script, which at first checks > the presence of the new user and then adds it to the copy of > existing system passwd file (if necessary). > > I am sorry, but I thing, that adding a new user by replaceing > passwd file with new uniform passwd file (from baselayout), > which do not fit to any configured system (except of just > installed one) is a the most stupid way how it can be done. > And I am sure that it's not only my opinion. > > Happy New Year to everybody! > Yes, it's totally asinine to present total replacement changes that can break a running system, but don't hold your breath. I've complained about this for three years now. -- Collins -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
SN wrote: - Original Message - From: "Andy Arbon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "gentoo-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates Hello, I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if anything is being done with etc-update or the baselayout package to stop it pointlessly trying up update a load of configuration files that I'm never going to let it touch every time it is updated? It seems like baselayout's changed quite regularly recently (this is in the x86 branch) and every time it does I get asked to update: 1) /etc/DIR_COLORS 2) /etc/devfsd.conf 3) /etc/fstab 4) /etc/group 5) /etc/passwd 6) /etc/rc.conf 7) /etc/shadow 8) /etc/conf.d/net 9) /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 Aside from rc.conf and maybe devfsd.conf I can't think of a single one of those that should ever be replaced or merged with a vanilla copy. In fact with most of them accidentally replacing the file with a vanilla one would be somewhere between an annoyance and a major headache. What if baselayout introduces a new group or user Think about it. In that case it should be done by script, which at first checks the presence of the new user and then adds it to the copy of existing system passwd file (if necessary). I am sorry, but I thing, that adding a new user by replaceing passwd file with new uniform passwd file (from baselayout), which do not fit to any configured system (except of just installed one) is a the most stupid way how it can be done. And I am sure that it's not only my opinion. Happy New Year to everybody! noro -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
- Original Message - From: "Andy Arbon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "gentoo-user" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 6:38 PM Subject: [gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates > Hello, > > I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if anything is being done with > etc-update or the baselayout package to stop it pointlessly trying up > update a load of configuration files that I'm never going to let it > touch every time it is updated? > > It seems like baselayout's changed quite regularly recently (this is in > the x86 branch) and every time it does I get asked to update: > 1) /etc/DIR_COLORS > 2) /etc/devfsd.conf > 3) /etc/fstab > 4) /etc/group > 5) /etc/passwd > 6) /etc/rc.conf > 7) /etc/shadow > 8) /etc/conf.d/net > 9) /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 > > Aside from rc.conf and maybe devfsd.conf I can't think of a single one > of those that should ever be replaced or merged with a vanilla copy. In > fact with most of them accidentally replacing the file with a vanilla > one would be somewhere between an annoyance and a major headache. What if baselayout introduces a new group or user Think about it. > > Is there anything that is/has being/been done about this? > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Base layout causing pointless config updates
Hello, I'm just wondering if anyone here knows if anything is being done with etc-update or the baselayout package to stop it pointlessly trying up update a load of configuration files that I'm never going to let it touch every time it is updated? It seems like baselayout's changed quite regularly recently (this is in the x86 branch) and every time it does I get asked to update: 1) /etc/DIR_COLORS 2) /etc/devfsd.conf 3) /etc/fstab 4) /etc/group 5) /etc/passwd 6) /etc/rc.conf 7) /etc/shadow 8) /etc/conf.d/net 9) /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 Aside from rc.conf and maybe devfsd.conf I can't think of a single one of those that should ever be replaced or merged with a vanilla copy. In fact with most of them accidentally replacing the file with a vanilla one would be somewhere between an annoyance and a major headache. Is there anything that is/has being/been done about this? Thanks, Andy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
