Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Jeff Smelser wrote: Server WE are refering to, is company. Ibm, people like that.. Not people like use who run a web server for whatever else.. Fact is, redhat wins there because of support. not because they are the best.. Kinda like microsoft.. so, lets stat again.. You wanna flame, thats your problem, but like I said, get YOUR facts straight... Debian is not number 2 in commercial support, which is what we are talking about.. Perhaps Jeff, you should have been more clear what you meant by classified for servers. What was that supposed to mean? Debian is supported commercially, there are plenty of folks out there that will provide support. There are also plenty of hardware vendors that support Debian. So, what exactly did you really mean? Bill Carlson -- Systems Administrator[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Anything is possible, Virtual Hospital http://www.vh.org/ | given time and money. University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics | Opinions are mine, not my employer's. | -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
Quoting Jeff Smelser from Dec 16 --[PinePGP]--[begin]-- On Tuesday 16 December 2003 07:55 pm, Ladislav Bodnar wrote: On Wednesday 17 December 2003 09:32, Jeff Smelser wrote: Listen moron. I didn't say anything about the popularity.. We are talking servers here. you want to get with the program here before you get on here flaming.. Troll.. The article I quoted from is by Netcraft. Netcraft is an organisation that monitors millions of web servers running various operating systems. I repeat again - web servers, with a special emphasis on the word servers. And despite your claim that Debian is not classified for servers AT ALL, Netcraft has found that among the millions of web servers running a Linux operating system, Debian is the second most widely used. [...] away.. I run a server, so whats that prove?? Exactly. Do you think that privately-run Linux webservers are the majority of those surveyed by NetCraft? I think not. Server WE are refering to, is company. Ibm, people like that.. Not people like use who run a web server for whatever else.. Fact is, redhat wins there because of support. not because they are the best.. Kinda like microsoft.. so, lets stat again.. You wanna flame, thats your problem, but like I said, get YOUR facts straight... Debian is not number 2 in commercial support, which is what we are talking about.. Yes, a big company, if they want Linux at all, buy RedHat because of support. But that is big companies. What about small businesses? They hire some student (or other small business) to create their website, and then the turn to another small business ISP to host it. I think those small ISPs don't necessarily run RedHat. They will prefer to have an in-house Linux Guy who maintains their server machines and apaches. And those Linux Guys are the people saying How do I keep my servers stable and secure? An ensure that I have minimum fuss upgrading? - Debian stable. And that is where place two on the webserver survey comes from. Greets Peter -- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
I tought you might be interested in some news from your favorite distro: Despite signs of abating interest in it, Gentoo Linux was one of the most remarkable success stories of this year. Portage, Gentoo's package management system, has clearly won many supporters at the time of growing dissatisfaction with some binary package management formats, although excellent documentation, active support forums and valuable community newsletters have all contributed to Gentoo's becoming one of the most widely used Linux distributions today. But despite frequent assertions by die-hard Gentoo converts, questions still remain about the product being a viable option for a large-scale deployments on mission-critical servers. this was taken here: http://www.distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20031215 -- mathieu perrenoud -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 16 December 2003 03:01 am, mathieu perrenoud wrote: I tought you might be interested in some news from your favorite distro: Despite signs of abating interest in it, Gentoo Linux was one of the most remarkable success stories of this year. Portage, Gentoo's package management system, has clearly won many supporters at the time of growing dissatisfaction with some binary package management formats, although excellent documentation, active support forums and valuable community newsletters have all contributed to Gentoo's becoming one of the most widely used Linux distributions today. But despite frequent assertions by die-hard Gentoo converts, questions still remain about the product being a viable option for a large-scale deployments on mission-critical servers. I agree, until we get a server type portage tree, I wouldn't put it on a mission critical server where my job laid in the balance.. I have used gentoo since it was announced of the first version, but the portage tree is a huge moving target.. Servers don't need bleeding egde, it needs consistancy.. - -- Weird enough for government work. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/3vyLld4MRA3gEwYRAqIqAKCg6VfWjgHOkTIrHbLat74Us0qQ9QCcCpnm AIOeuZzp4kypu0mUMKZselk= =P6SM -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
Jeff Smelser wrote: Servers don't need bleeding egde, it needs consistancy.. No one is forcing you to install bleeding edge software. Install Gentoo on a spare test box, test it; and if everything goes OK, put it to work. Then only deploy security updates (after testing of course.) Regards, Norberto pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Norberto Bensa wrote: Jeff Smelser wrote: Servers don't need bleeding egde, it needs consistancy.. No one is forcing you to install bleeding edge software. Install Gentoo on a spare test box, test it; and if everything goes OK, put it to work. Then only deploy security updates (after testing of course.) I think you'll find the problem comes when deploying those security updates via portage. Suddenly, glibc needs rebuilt, etc, etc to get the needed security fix. Now, I think portage is great, but Jeff is on target that there are features missing for a production server. Bill Carlson -- Systems Administrator[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Anything is possible, Virtual Hospital http://www.vh.org/ | given time and money. University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics | Opinions are mine, not my employer's. | -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
Bill Carlson wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Norberto Bensa wrote: Jeff Smelser wrote: Servers don't need bleeding egde, it needs consistancy.. No one is forcing you to install bleeding edge software. I think you'll find the problem comes when deploying those security updates via portage. Suddenly, glibc needs rebuilt, etc, etc to get the needed security fix. Not much different than Debian, RH, etc. Regards, Norberto pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 16 December 2003 04:31 pm, Norberto Bensa wrote: Bill Carlson wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, Norberto Bensa wrote: Jeff Smelser wrote: Servers don't need bleeding egde, it needs consistancy.. No one is forcing you to install bleeding edge software. I think you'll find the problem comes when deploying those security updates via portage. Suddenly, glibc needs rebuilt, etc, etc to get the needed security fix. Not much different than Debian, RH, etc. Actually no, rh keeps you at certain versions. We they moved to gcc3, I didn't have to upgrade to it, 5.2 sill had the same set of software.. Debian is not classified for servers.. AT ALL. So I don't know where your getting that. What company you know thinks debian when he wants to install linux on a server. - -- Weird enough for government work. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/36w8ld4MRA3gEwYRAu5xAJ9MlF/ZNeNyBfpOTyQ6njvqYYa8aQCcCmP8 e/K4IUDeY6CEkXR57RWIgsw= =8CVd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
-Original Message- From: Jeff Smelser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 8:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly Not much different than Debian, RH, etc. Actually no, rh keeps you at certain versions. We they moved to gcc3, I didn't have to upgrade to it, 5.2 sill had the same set of software.. I'm with you on that. The all-inclusive nature of portage's dependencies drives me nuts sometimes. And the all-inclusive nature of ebuilds sometimes drives me nuts (I'd like a good way to exclude ALL multimedia builds from, say, gnome just as an example). Debian is not classified for servers.. AT ALL. So I don't know where your getting that. What company you know thinks debian when he wants to install linux on a server. Not sure what makes you say that. I don't know many people who use Linux in general for production servers. Those that do that I'm aware of use RedHat. But it has nothing to do with classified for servers at all. It has to do with the fact that RedHat provides support for their OS. To any organization that would need a server, that's typically important. As for Debian on servers, it probably makes a lot more sense than most other distros for the exact reason why I hate running it on my desktop -- they strive for stability which means they are typically a couple/few revs back since they only use known stable/secure versions at any given time (secure being a moving target). Ric -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 16 December 2003 07:20 pm, Ric Messier wrote: Not sure what makes you say that. I don't know many people who use Linux in general for production servers. Those that do that I'm aware of use RedHat. But it has nothing to do with classified for servers at all. It has to do with the fact that RedHat provides support for their OS. To any organization that would need a server, that's typically important. I never have had the chance to run debian, I thought there were more, up to date.. I was wrong.. - -- The three Rs of Microsoft support: Retry, Reboot, Reinstall. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/37Cild4MRA3gEwYRAlAoAJ9OWTAju9pgInMDkcL8CnuIf6PcugCgqnR1 zOUdBkYv29rotiq/CP45f+4= =7LlU -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
On Wednesday 17 December 2003 09:07, Jeff Smelser wrote: Debian is not classified for servers.. AT ALL. So I don't know where your getting that. What company you know thinks debian when he wants to install linux on a server. Huh??? Are you a troll? A quote from Netcraft: Despite the absence of funding, Debian is the second most popular Linux distribution we find on internet web sites, surpassed only by Red Hat, and leaving the likes of SuSE and Mandrake in its wake. Full story at http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/08/16/ debian_linux_distribution_10_years_old_today.html Maybe they just forgot to tell them... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 16 December 2003 07:26 pm, Ladislav Bodnar wrote: On Wednesday 17 December 2003 09:07, Jeff Smelser wrote: Debian is not classified for servers.. AT ALL. So I don't know where your getting that. What company you know thinks debian when he wants to install linux on a server. Huh??? Are you a troll? Listen moron. I didn't say anything about the popularity.. We are talking servers here. you want to get with the program here before you get on here flaming.. Troll.. - -- Tagline generated by 'gensig' mail-client-independent .signature generator. Get your copy at http://www.geeks.com/~robf/gensig/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/37Ivld4MRA3gEwYRApjZAKDhIQjbKHd06HEU20RWslJqRrAJGACgyQh4 o256Y8iZzu+CkGb6VoIpZKg= =lV3m -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
On Wednesday 17 December 2003 09:32, Jeff Smelser wrote: Listen moron. I didn't say anything about the popularity.. We are talking servers here. you want to get with the program here before you get on here flaming.. Troll.. The article I quoted from is by Netcraft. Netcraft is an organisation that monitors millions of web servers running various operating systems. I repeat again - web servers, with a special emphasis on the word servers. And despite your claim that Debian is not classified for servers AT ALL, Netcraft has found that among the millions of web servers running a Linux operating system, Debian is the second most widely used. I might be a moron, but at least I check my facts before hitting the send button. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] quote from distrowatch weekly
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 16 December 2003 07:55 pm, Ladislav Bodnar wrote: On Wednesday 17 December 2003 09:32, Jeff Smelser wrote: Listen moron. I didn't say anything about the popularity.. We are talking servers here. you want to get with the program here before you get on here flaming.. Troll.. The article I quoted from is by Netcraft. Netcraft is an organisation that monitors millions of web servers running various operating systems. I repeat again - web servers, with a special emphasis on the word servers. And despite your claim that Debian is not classified for servers AT ALL, Netcraft has found that among the millions of web servers running a Linux operating system, Debian is the second most widely used. I might be a moron, but at least I check my facts before hitting the send button. See, instead of getting what we are talking about, you just want to flame away.. I run a server, so whats that prove?? Server WE are refering to, is company. Ibm, people like that.. Not people like use who run a web server for whatever else.. Fact is, redhat wins there because of support. not because they are the best.. Kinda like microsoft.. so, lets stat again.. You wanna flame, thats your problem, but like I said, get YOUR facts straight... Debian is not number 2 in commercial support, which is what we are talking about.. Debian is a good dist from what I hear, no one was here saying it wasn't.. Your getting all in a high horse over nothing.. geez. - -- Loose bits sink chips. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/37lCld4MRA3gEwYRAlQ+AJ95MgIm3esshwvBbbwZ/RCewzTxTACfZSHu PBYjuojcWDLCuKn4PdjSt9I= =H6Ek -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
