Re: [gentoo-user] While installing Gentoo: emerge gentoo-sources hangs at Applying 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch
On 12/11/09 16:43, Dale wrote: > Erik wrote: >> Now I am trying to install Gentoo on a new system but when try to emerge >> gentoo-sources (as I am supposed to), it hangs at "Applying >> 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch". This problem is also known as bug #291389. >> I see with top in another virtual terminal that rm uses 100% CPU. Is >> there any way to continue the installation? >> >> > > Maybe try a different version of gentoo-sources? > Dale > > :-) :-) Vanilla-sources will solve the problem until boot time, unless you have ext4 partitions. Cheers Kad
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Willie Wong wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:54:46PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked: That is certainly one good example. My little ol desktop is not rebooted to much. I once went 242 days without a reboot. Ahem! While we are busy comparing wang sizes, read my sig please. That is the server formerly known as my desktop. Cheers, W I have noticed that before. There is someone that has like four or five years on here somewhere. Maybe it was the forums. Anyway, we have to reboot eventually. The power company forced me to shut down. Of course, they have been doing a lot better job trimming the trees since then. I got big piles of mulch to prove it too. ;-) We also haven't had a hurricane again either. That helps a little. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Samstag 12 Dezember 2009, Dale wrote: > Willie Wong wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:54:46PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked: > >> That is certainly one good example. My little ol desktop is not > >> rebooted to much. I once went 242 days without a reboot. > > > > Ahem! While we are busy comparing wang sizes, read my sig please. > > > > That is the server formerly known as my desktop. > > > > Cheers, > > > > W > > I have noticed that before. There is someone that has like four or five > years on here somewhere. Maybe it was the forums. Anyway, we have to > reboot eventually. The power company forced me to shut down. Of > course, they have been doing a lot better job trimming the trees since > then. I got big piles of mulch to prove it too. ;-) We also haven't > had a hurricane again either. That helps a little. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > and what is the advantage? Why do you keep your computer running, wasting energy? Is there any good reason?
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Samstag 12 Dezember 2009, Willie Wong wrote: > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:54:46PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked: > > That is certainly one good example. My little ol desktop is not rebooted > > to much. I once went 242 days without a reboot. > > Ahem! While we are busy comparing wang sizes, read my sig please. > > That is the server formerly known as my desktop. > > Cheers, > > W > you really love to waste electricity for nothing, do you?
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
pk wrote: Dale wrote: One reason I mentioned the Mars thing, I recall them having a puter on Mars or something that had a hiccup and they thought they had lost it. Somehow it just popped itself back up tho. I guess it was trying to find some code that did work and finally did. I remember them saying I'm sure that was just your friendly neighbourhood martian that rebooted the 'puter... Sorry, couldn't resist! :-) Best regards Peter K Hey, they have geeks too !! Yeppie !! I couldn't resist either. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] While installing Gentoo: emerge gentoo-sources hangs at Applying 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch
Erik wrote: Now I am trying to install Gentoo on a new system but when try to emerge gentoo-sources (as I am supposed to), it hangs at "Applying 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch". This problem is also known as bug #291389. I see with top in another virtual terminal that rm uses 100% CPU. Is there any way to continue the installation? Maybe try a different version of gentoo-sources? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] While installing Gentoo: emerge gentoo-sources hangs at Applying 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 12:28:35AM +0100, Penguin Lover Erik squawked: > Now I am trying to install Gentoo on a new system but when try to emerge > gentoo-sources (as I am supposed to), it hangs at "Applying > 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch". This problem is also known as bug #291389. > I see with top in another virtual terminal that rm uses 100% CPU. Is > there any way to continue the installation? Try a different version? There's gotta be some other versions of gentoo-sources that does not hang at that patch. Else try another branch of the sources? On my server cum desktop I run hardened, and on my laptop I just use vanilla. Cheers, W -- Gualtieri's Law of inertia: Where there's a will, there's a won't. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1099 days, 23:33
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:54:46PM -0600, Penguin Lover Dale squawked: > That is certainly one good example. My little ol desktop is not rebooted > to much. I once went 242 days without a reboot. Ahem! While we are busy comparing wang sizes, read my sig please. That is the server formerly known as my desktop. Cheers, W -- It's one o them musics with little sticky prongs all over it so it can cling to the inside of your head for days. ~S Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1099 days, 23:29
[gentoo-user] While installing Gentoo: emerge gentoo-sources hangs at Applying 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch
Now I am trying to install Gentoo on a new system but when try to emerge gentoo-sources (as I am supposed to), it hangs at "Applying 4400_alpha-sysctl-uac.patch". This problem is also known as bug #291389. I see with top in another virtual terminal that rm uses 100% CPU. Is there any way to continue the installation?
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Dale wrote: > One reason I mentioned the Mars thing, I recall them having a puter on > Mars or something that had a hiccup and they thought they had lost it. > Somehow it just popped itself back up tho. I guess it was trying to > find some code that did work and finally did. I remember them saying I'm sure that was just your friendly neighbourhood martian that rebooted the 'puter... Sorry, couldn't resist! :-) Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] xorg-server-1.6.5-r1 'Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap'
Is evdev complied into your kernel? It should be. Mick wrote: > Hi All, > > I emerged xorg-server-1.6.5-r1, as well as > x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics-1.2.0, xf86-input-keyboard-1.4.0, > xf86-input-mouse-1.5.0 and xf86-input-evdev-2.3.1 and now I can't get > past the xdm login screen. It is worth noting that I also emerged a > load of apps including xkbcomp-1.1.1 and xinit-1.2.0-r3. > > When I enter my passwd at the xdm login it takes a couple of seconds > and it drops me back into the login screen. > > The xdm.log mentions: > === > X.Org X Server 1.6.5 > Release Date: 2009-10-11 > X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 > Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 i686 > Current Operating System: Linux lappy 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 #1 Fri Nov 27 > 07:32:41 GMT 2009 i686 > Build Date: 11 December 2009 11:36:44AM > > Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org > to make sure that you have the latest version. > Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, > (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, > (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. > (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Fri Dec 11 20:10:50 2009 > (==) Using default built-in configuration (30 lines) > (EE) Failed to load module "vesa" (module does not exist, 0) > (EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0) > NTSC PAL PAL-M > XRANDR name: VGA-0 > Connector: VGA > CRT1: INTERNAL_DAC1 > DDC reg: 0x60 > XRANDR name: LVDS > Connector: LVDS > LCD1: INTERNAL_LVDS > DDC reg: 0x1a0 > XRANDR name: S-video > Connector: S-video > TV1: INTERNAL_DAC2 > DDC reg: 0x0 > finished output detect: 0 > finished output detect: 1 > finished output detect: 2 > finished all detect > before xf86InitialConfiguration > after xf86InitialConfiguration > Entering TV Save > Save TV timing tables > saveTimingTables: reading timing tables > TV Save done > disable LVDS > disable primary dac > disable LVDS > disable TV > disable LVDS > init memmap > init common > init crtc1 > init pll1 > restore memmap > restore common > restore crtc1 > restore pll1 > set RMX > set LVDS > enable LVDS > disable primary dac > disable TV > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >> Warning: Symbol map for key redefined >> Using last definition for conflicting fields > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server > The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >> Warning: Symbol map for key redefined >> Using last definition for conflicting fields > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server > The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >> Warning: Symbol map for key redefined >> Using last definition for conflicting fields > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:31:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:32:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:33:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:34:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:35:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:36:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:37:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:38:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin > XIO: fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":0.0" > after 117 requests (109 known processed) with 0 events remaining. > disable LVDS > finished PLL2 > Entering Restore TV > Restore TV PLL > Restore TVHV > Restore TV Restarts > Restore Timing Tables > Restore TV standard > Leaving Restore TV > error setting MTRR (base = 0x4800, size = 0x0100, type = 1) > Invalid argument (22) > Entering TV Save > Save TV timing tables > saveTimingTables: reading timing tables > TV Save done > disable LVDS > disable primary dac > disable LVDS > disable TV > disable LVDS > init memmap > init common > init crtc1 > init pll1 > restore memmap > restore common > restore crtc1 > restore pll1 > set RMX > set LVDS > enable LVDS > disable primary dac > disable TV > (EE) XKB: No components provided for device Virtual core keyboard > The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >> Warning: Symbol map for key redefined >> Using last definition for conflicting fields > expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet > Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server > The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: >> Warning: Sy
[gentoo-user] xorg-server-1.6.5-r1 'Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap'
Hi All, I emerged xorg-server-1.6.5-r1, as well as x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics-1.2.0, xf86-input-keyboard-1.4.0, xf86-input-mouse-1.5.0 and xf86-input-evdev-2.3.1 and now I can't get past the xdm login screen. It is worth noting that I also emerged a load of apps including xkbcomp-1.1.1 and xinit-1.2.0-r3. When I enter my passwd at the xdm login it takes a couple of seconds and it drops me back into the login screen. The xdm.log mentions: === X.Org X Server 1.6.5 Release Date: 2009-10-11 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 i686 Current Operating System: Linux lappy 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 #1 Fri Nov 27 07:32:41 GMT 2009 i686 Build Date: 11 December 2009 11:36:44AM Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Fri Dec 11 20:10:50 2009 (==) Using default built-in configuration (30 lines) (EE) Failed to load module "vesa" (module does not exist, 0) (EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0) NTSC PAL PAL-M XRANDR name: VGA-0 Connector: VGA CRT1: INTERNAL_DAC1 DDC reg: 0x60 XRANDR name: LVDS Connector: LVDS LCD1: INTERNAL_LVDS DDC reg: 0x1a0 XRANDR name: S-video Connector: S-video TV1: INTERNAL_DAC2 DDC reg: 0x0 finished output detect: 0 finished output detect: 1 finished output detect: 2 finished all detect before xf86InitialConfiguration after xf86InitialConfiguration Entering TV Save Save TV timing tables saveTimingTables: reading timing tables TV Save done disable LVDS disable primary dac disable LVDS disable TV disable LVDS init memmap init common init crtc1 init pll1 restore memmap restore common restore crtc1 restore pll1 set RMX set LVDS enable LVDS disable primary dac disable TV expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Symbol map for key redefined > Using last definition for conflicting fields expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Symbol map for key redefined > Using last definition for conflicting fields expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Symbol map for key redefined > Using last definition for conflicting fields expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:31:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:32:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:33:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:34:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:35:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:36:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:37:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin /etc/X11/xdm/Xresources:38:2: error: invalid preprocessing directive #xlogin XIO: fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server ":0.0" after 117 requests (109 known processed) with 0 events remaining. disable LVDS finished PLL2 Entering Restore TV Restore TV PLL Restore TVHV Restore TV Restarts Restore Timing Tables Restore TV standard Leaving Restore TV error setting MTRR (base = 0x4800, size = 0x0100, type = 1) Invalid argument (22) Entering TV Save Save TV timing tables saveTimingTables: reading timing tables TV Save done disable LVDS disable primary dac disable LVDS disable TV disable LVDS init memmap init common init crtc1 init pll1 restore memmap restore common restore crtc1 restore pll1 set RMX set LVDS enable LVDS disable primary dac disable TV (EE) XKB: No components provided for device Virtual core keyboard The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Symbol map for key redefined > Using last definition for conflicting fields expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Symbol map for key redefined > Using last definition for conflicting fields expected keysym, got XF86TouchpadToggle: line 122 of inet Errors from xkbcomp are not fatal to the X server The XKEYBOARD keymap compiler (xkbcomp) reports: > Warning: Symbol map for key redefined > Usi
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 21:00:49 Dale wrote: That would be cool of you had a system that just couldn't be rebooted. Is there such a thing tho? What would be the reason a machine just could not be rebooted? I guess one would be if the puter was on planet Mars maybe? Is that how NASA does it? lol Could you imagine getting a blue screen of death on a computer that is on Mars? O_O IBM mainframes many years ago could be rebooted. I mean rebooting was physically not supported; there wasn't even an on/off switch. There was a guillotine blade around the incoming mains feed attached to an explosive bolt and only supposed to be activated by the building's Fireman's Switch :-) Mars probes can be rebooted, but the underlying BIOS-type code cannot, and it has all kinds of fail-safe routines built in, if code doesn't work it reverts back to the last known good version. Much like today's smartphones which is the prime reason why it's normally insanely hard to permanently brick them. But all that really does is move the "you can't ever halt this code" section one level lower One reason I mentioned the Mars thing, I recall them having a puter on Mars or something that had a hiccup and they thought they had lost it. Somehow it just popped itself back up tho. I guess it was trying to find some code that did work and finally did. I remember them saying they tried to upload something to fix a error then it went all wacky on them. It amazes me tho how long those puters they send to Pluto and such can last. It also seems that something always goes wrong too. I remember the Pluto thing had a antenna that didn't open up all the way. It wasn't able to send as much data as they wanted but they worked around it. I have no idea how those things can work in the environment they are in either. It does help me to understand how my old rig here hangs in there tho. Six years old and still kicken. I blow the dust out and no deadly cosmic rays either. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On 12/11/09 11:00, Dale wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: >> On Friday 11 December 2009 17:07:17 Dale wrote: >> >>> Alan McKinnon wrote: >>> On Friday 11 December 2009 15:16:01 Dale wrote: > Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a > technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new > kernel. > And these days, not even then :-) [it requires some voodoo but is certainly possible] [[and I don't mean build and install a new kernel, I really do mean loa ti into memory and run it, dispensing with the old one]] >>> I have read about that but never read something from someone who has >>> actually done it. I have always been curious as to how that would >>> work, >>> in reality not just theory. >>> >> >> kexec and CONFIG_RELOCATABLE >> >> >>> I have also wondered why a person would go to all that trouble. >>> Wouldn't all the services have to be restarted anyway? >>> >> >> Nope. userspace ABI is stable so services just carry on as normal >> once he new kernel comes up. You don't need to restart SeaMonkey if >> you restart a local apache on your machine - same thing >> >> > > That would be cool of you had a system that just couldn't be > rebooted. Is there such a thing tho? What would be the reason a > machine just could not be rebooted? I guess one would be if the puter > was on planet Mars maybe? Is that how NASA does it? lol Could you > imagine getting a blue screen of death on a computer that is on Mars? > O_O > > Dale > > :-) :-) The closest thing that I have used to not rebooting my machine is kexec, it completely unloads the current running kernel and then loading the new kernel in it's place.
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 20:54:46 Dale wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Now do you understand why my refusal to reboot my machines willy-nilly is > > entirely rational? It's because they are not my laptop. > > That is certainly one good example. My little ol desktop is not > rebooted to much. I once went 242 days without a reboot. I only > rebooted then because hurricane Katrina knocked out my lights for about > 26 hours. My little generator also bit the dust. It had a nice hole in > the side of the motor and a really nasty smell. > > There are a lot of computers that can't be rebooted easily. Some are > run remotely too. Some like yours just have to run 24/7 which is one > thing *nix is good at. Some numbers :-) I have three auth name servers. I have customers who get mighty upset when they blip. Hence, I need to provide guarantees like this: These two are in-country in the data centres we control: $ uptime 9:07PM up 65 days $ uptime 9:07PM up 994 days This one is in New York, where I definitely have no control at all: $ uptime 9:07PM up 464 days -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 21:00:49 Dale wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Friday 11 December 2009 17:07:17 Dale wrote: > >> I have also wondered why a person would go to all that trouble. > >> Wouldn't all the services have to be restarted anyway? > > > > Nope. userspace ABI is stable so services just carry on as normal once he > > new kernel comes up. You don't need to restart SeaMonkey if you restart a > > local apache on your machine - same thing > > That would be cool of you had a system that just couldn't be rebooted. > Is there such a thing tho? What would be the reason a machine just > could not be rebooted? I guess one would be if the puter was on planet > Mars maybe? Is that how NASA does it? lol Could you imagine getting a > blue screen of death on a computer that is on Mars? O_O IBM mainframes many years ago could be rebooted. I mean rebooting was physically not supported; there wasn't even an on/off switch. There was a guillotine blade around the incoming mains feed attached to an explosive bolt and only supposed to be activated by the building's Fireman's Switch :-) Mars probes can be rebooted, but the underlying BIOS-type code cannot, and it has all kinds of fail-safe routines built in, if code doesn't work it reverts back to the last known good version. Much like today's smartphones which is the prime reason why it's normally insanely hard to permanently brick them. But all that really does is move the "you can't ever halt this code" section one level lower -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 17:07:17 Dale wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 15:16:01 Dale wrote: Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new kernel. And these days, not even then :-) [it requires some voodoo but is certainly possible] [[and I don't mean build and install a new kernel, I really do mean loa ti into memory and run it, dispensing with the old one]] I have read about that but never read something from someone who has actually done it. I have always been curious as to how that would work, in reality not just theory. kexec and CONFIG_RELOCATABLE I have also wondered why a person would go to all that trouble. Wouldn't all the services have to be restarted anyway? Nope. userspace ABI is stable so services just carry on as normal once he new kernel comes up. You don't need to restart SeaMonkey if you restart a local apache on your machine - same thing That would be cool of you had a system that just couldn't be rebooted. Is there such a thing tho? What would be the reason a machine just could not be rebooted? I guess one would be if the puter was on planet Mars maybe? Is that how NASA does it? lol Could you imagine getting a blue screen of death on a computer that is on Mars? O_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What magic does portage use?
»Q« wrote: On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:38:02 -0600 Dale wrote: Mickaël Bucas wrote: 2009/12/11 Alan McKinnon : Unix works the way it does precisely so you *don't* require a reboot to use new libraries. They are already there and fully installed and fully operational. You just have to start using them - this may require restarting the relevant app that uses them and perhaps ldconfig. To find out which files have been replaced, you can use the following command : lsof | grep DEL This will give you all files that have been deleted since they have been loaded by the process. >From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important services like udev. Actually, you can kill udev and restart it. Kill the process and then run "/sbin/udevd --daemon" and it will be started again. If you're restarting services yourself instead of switching runlevels to get them all at once, you can still use the initscripts. # /etc/init.d/udev restart That doesn't work in baselayout 1 tho. If I switch to single user, udevd is still running. The only way to stop it is to kill it. r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev start * The udev init-script is written for baselayout-2! * Please do not use it with baselayout-1!. r...@smoker / # Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 18:33:49 Mike Edenfield wrote: On 12/11/2009 9:38 AM, Dale wrote: Mickaël Bucas wrote: From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important services like udev. Actually, you can kill udev and restart it. Kill the process and then run "/sbin/udevd --daemon" and it will be started again. Yeah, or you could, you know, just reboot. Frankly I have never figured out the irrational fear Linux people have about rebooting their machines after a big upgrade. It takes my laptop way less time to shutdown and restart than it does for me to manually stop and restart everything that just got updated, and I can go grab a soda in the meantime. That's a laptop. Do you have an SLA with customers where you guarantee your laptop will be up 99.999%? My database and DNS servers do, and just in case you were asking, those 5 nines INCLUDES scheduled downtime. Unlike some other machines around in the company like, gee, I dunno, the Windows machines hosting the Active Directory, maybe? For some obscure perverse reason akin to grey elephants in the living room, those have 20 minutes downtime every single Friday. If I did that with my *nix boxes, I can pretty much kiss my plans for Christmas Bonus goodbye. Now do you understand why my refusal to reboot my machines willy-nilly is entirely rational? It's because they are not my laptop. That is certainly one good example. My little ol desktop is not rebooted to much. I once went 242 days without a reboot. I only rebooted then because hurricane Katrina knocked out my lights for about 26 hours. My little generator also bit the dust. It had a nice hole in the side of the motor and a really nasty smell. There are a lot of computers that can't be rebooted easily. Some are run remotely too. Some like yours just have to run 24/7 which is one thing *nix is good at. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: went from x86 to ~x86: no more X11
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Am 10.12.2009 05:41, schrieb Joshua Murphy:
>
>> Respawns on close/crash... doesn't allow attempts to start more than
>> once (hence the 'lockfile' type hack in the script), doesn't break on
>> a stale lockfile, and does whatever the user ('myuser' should be
>> replaced with a real username) wishes in terms of WM/desktop by way of
>> the user's ~/.xinitrc ... and all without ever asking me for a user
>> password.
>
> I am now trying to use your solution, I just have to find a way to make
> it work with my pam_mount-based setup. Working on it ;-)
>
> thanks, S
Hmm... that'd certainly complicate it... since mine bypasses any auth
of the user ;)
--
Poison [BLX]
Joshua M. Murphy
[gentoo-user] Re: What magic does portage use?
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:38:02 -0600 Dale wrote: > Mickaël Bucas wrote: > > 2009/12/11 Alan McKinnon : > > > >> Unix works the way it does precisely so you *don't* require a > >> reboot to use new libraries. They are already there and fully > >> installed and fully operational. You just have to start using them > >> - this may require restarting the relevant app that uses them and > >> perhaps ldconfig. > > > > To find out which files have been replaced, you can use the > > following command : lsof | grep DEL > > This will give you all files that have been deleted since they have > > been loaded by the process. > > >From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. > > I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. > > You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important > > services like udev. > > Actually, you can kill udev and restart it. Kill the process and > then run "/sbin/udevd --daemon" and it will be started again. If you're restarting services yourself instead of switching runlevels to get them all at once, you can still use the initscripts. # /etc/init.d/udev restart -- »Q« Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 18:33:49 Mike Edenfield wrote: > On 12/11/2009 9:38 AM, Dale wrote: > > Mickaël Bucas wrote: > >> From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. > >> I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. > >> You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important > >> services like udev. > > > > Actually, you can kill udev and restart it. Kill the process and then > > run "/sbin/udevd --daemon" and it will be started again. > > Yeah, or you could, you know, just reboot. > > Frankly I have never figured out the irrational fear Linux people have > about rebooting their machines after a big upgrade. It takes my laptop > way less time to shutdown and restart than it does for me to manually > stop and restart everything that just got updated, and I can go grab a > soda in the meantime. That's a laptop. Do you have an SLA with customers where you guarantee your laptop will be up 99.999%? My database and DNS servers do, and just in case you were asking, those 5 nines INCLUDES scheduled downtime. Unlike some other machines around in the company like, gee, I dunno, the Windows machines hosting the Active Directory, maybe? For some obscure perverse reason akin to grey elephants in the living room, those have 20 minutes downtime every single Friday. If I did that with my *nix boxes, I can pretty much kiss my plans for Christmas Bonus goodbye. Now do you understand why my refusal to reboot my machines willy-nilly is entirely rational? It's because they are not my laptop. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: went from x86 to ~x86: no more X11
Am 10.12.2009 05:41, schrieb Joshua Murphy:
> Respawns on close/crash... doesn't allow attempts to start more than
> once (hence the 'lockfile' type hack in the script), doesn't break on
> a stale lockfile, and does whatever the user ('myuser' should be
> replaced with a real username) wishes in terms of WM/desktop by way of
> the user's ~/.xinitrc ... and all without ever asking me for a user
> password.
I am now trying to use your solution, I just have to find a way to make
it work with my pam_mount-based setup. Working on it ;-)
thanks, S
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 17:07:17 Dale wrote: > Alan McKinnon wrote: > > On Friday 11 December 2009 15:16:01 Dale wrote: > >> Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a > >> technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new > >> kernel. > > > > And these days, not even then :-) > > > > [it requires some voodoo but is certainly possible] > > > > [[and I don't mean build and install a new kernel, I really do mean loa > > ti into memory and run it, dispensing with the old one]] > > I have read about that but never read something from someone who has > actually done it. I have always been curious as to how that would work, > in reality not just theory. kexec and CONFIG_RELOCATABLE > I have also wondered why a person would go to all that trouble. > Wouldn't all the services have to be restarted anyway? Nope. userspace ABI is stable so services just carry on as normal once he new kernel comes up. You don't need to restart SeaMonkey if you restart a local apache on your machine - same thing -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On 12/11/2009 9:38 AM, Dale wrote: Mickaël Bucas wrote: From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important services like udev. Actually, you can kill udev and restart it. Kill the process and then run "/sbin/udevd --daemon" and it will be started again. Yeah, or you could, you know, just reboot. Frankly I have never figured out the irrational fear Linux people have about rebooting their machines after a big upgrade. It takes my laptop way less time to shutdown and restart than it does for me to manually stop and restart everything that just got updated, and I can go grab a soda in the meantime. --Mike
[gentoo-user] Trouble with weather plasmoids
Since the massive Qt 4.6.0/KDE 4.3.4 update I have noticed that the search widget for the various weather plasmoids always returns "Cannot find 'London'" or whatever. This is on two systems; anyone else notice this? TIA -Robin -- -- Robin Atwood. "Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst, Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst" from "Mandalay" by Rudyard Kipling --
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 15:16:01 Dale wrote: Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new kernel. And these days, not even then :-) [it requires some voodoo but is certainly possible] [[and I don't mean build and install a new kernel, I really do mean loa ti into memory and run it, dispensing with the old one]] I have read about that but never read something from someone who has actually done it. I have always been curious as to how that would work, in reality not just theory. I have also wondered why a person would go to all that trouble. Wouldn't all the services have to be restarted anyway? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Freitag 11 Dezember 2009, Daniel Troeder wrote: > On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:16 -0600, Dale wrote: > > Helmut Jarausch wrote: > > > On 11 Dec, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > >> On Friday 11 December 2009 11:11:41 Helmut Jarausch wrote: > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). > > >>> > > >>> When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an > > >>> error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. > > >>> > > >>> How does portage succeed anyway. > > >>> (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since > > >>> sometimes only rebooting solves some very strange problems) > > >>> > > >>> How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 > > >>> or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? > > >>> > > >>> Many thanks for enlightening me, > > >>> Helmut. > > >> > > >> Portage does nothing special, as dealing with this is a Unix thing. > > >> > > >> On Unix, the inode is the file, not the directory entry. If you want > > >> to replace an open file, the system simply does it and updates the > > >> dentry to point to a new inode. Any spp using the old file will > > >> continue to use it as it still has a handle to the inode. The inode is > > >> only fully deleted when the last app using it closes it > > >> > > >> If you update a library to a new version with an API break, the lib > > >> should get a new soname so the file is a different name, hence no > > >> collision (symlinks to libraries excepted). > > >> > > >> This is how it should work, any code that tries to do it a different > > >> way is by definition broken, that's why portage needs take no special > > >> measures. > > >> > > >> All of this is in complete contrast to other broken systems, such as > > >> Windows for example. On Windows, the filename IS the file, so upgrades > > >> are horrible. Installers must put the file somewhere else and have the > > >> final steps and registry updates done at next reboot before anything > > >> has a chance to open libs. This is why fairly deep updates on Windows > > >> often require multiple reboot - multiple apps installed multiple libs > > >> to be fiddled with multiple times > > > > > > Many thanks Alan, > > > > > > so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries > > > used, isn't it? > > > On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is > > > not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just > > > hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly > > > each day). > > > > > > Thanks again Alan, > > > Helmut. > > > > I'll add two cents here. Let's say I upgrade Seamonkey which is my web > > browser / email program. I sync and notice there is a update to > > Seamonkey available and I let emerge update it. When the install is > > complete, I don't have to reboot or even log out of KDE. All I have to > > do is close Seamonkey and start it again. It will then load the new > > updated version and run it. > > > > The same could be said for a service like cups. If you update cups, all > > you have to do is restart the service. It will stop the old service > > then load up the new service that was just installed. Just a simple > > "/etc/init.d/cupsd restart" will work just fine. > > > > If you upgrade something kde, say kdelibs or some other kde base > > package, then all you need to do is log out of KDE and log back in > > again. Sort of the same with updating xorg, logout, go to a console and > > restart xdm or whatever you use to start X. I usually use the ctrl alt > > backspace key but restarting the service is better, or so some have said > > anyway. > > > > Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a > > technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new > > kernel. > > > > Hope that helps a little. > > > > Dale > > > > :-) :-) > > I absolutely concur with Alan and Dale, I just want to warn a bit about > complex X11-environments like gnome or kde. If you logout and login > again, it is NOT secure, that all gnome/kde/qt apps have been closed. > There are services (gconf, kded, pulse, etc) that take a time to quit, > or sometimes just don't :( > > Then, when an app was linked against a symlink, and that left-over-app > too, the dynamic loader may not load a newly installed library, but > reuses the one in memory (from the left-over-app). [1] > > It's still valid, that no reboot is needed, but you sure can be > unlucky :) > > Bye, > Daniel > > > [1] don't take this info for granted, I'm no expert in this - just what > I understood from reading... > /etc/init.d/xdm stop killall -9 X /etc/init.d/xdm zap /etc/init.d/xdm start
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Daniel Troeder wrote: On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:16 -0600, Dale wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 11 Dec, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 11:11:41 Helmut Jarausch wrote: Hi, I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. How does portage succeed anyway. (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since sometimes only rebooting solves some very strange problems) How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? Many thanks for enlightening me, Helmut. Portage does nothing special, as dealing with this is a Unix thing. On Unix, the inode is the file, not the directory entry. If you want to replace an open file, the system simply does it and updates the dentry to point to a new inode. Any spp using the old file will continue to use it as it still has a handle to the inode. The inode is only fully deleted when the last app using it closes it If you update a library to a new version with an API break, the lib should get a new soname so the file is a different name, hence no collision (symlinks to libraries excepted). This is how it should work, any code that tries to do it a different way is by definition broken, that's why portage needs take no special measures. All of this is in complete contrast to other broken systems, such as Windows for example. On Windows, the filename IS the file, so upgrades are horrible. Installers must put the file somewhere else and have the final steps and registry updates done at next reboot before anything has a chance to open libs. This is why fairly deep updates on Windows often require multiple reboot - multiple apps installed multiple libs to be fiddled with multiple times Many thanks Alan, so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, isn't it? On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly each day). Thanks again Alan, Helmut. I'll add two cents here. Let's say I upgrade Seamonkey which is my web browser / email program. I sync and notice there is a update to Seamonkey available and I let emerge update it. When the install is complete, I don't have to reboot or even log out of KDE. All I have to do is close Seamonkey and start it again. It will then load the new updated version and run it. The same could be said for a service like cups. If you update cups, all you have to do is restart the service. It will stop the old service then load up the new service that was just installed. Just a simple "/etc/init.d/cupsd restart" will work just fine. If you upgrade something kde, say kdelibs or some other kde base package, then all you need to do is log out of KDE and log back in again. Sort of the same with updating xorg, logout, go to a console and restart xdm or whatever you use to start X. I usually use the ctrl alt backspace key but restarting the service is better, or so some have said anyway. Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new kernel. Hope that helps a little. Dale :-) :-) I absolutely concur with Alan and Dale, I just want to warn a bit about complex X11-environments like gnome or kde. If you logout and login again, it is NOT secure, that all gnome/kde/qt apps have been closed. There are services (gconf, kded, pulse, etc) that take a time to quit, or sometimes just don't :( Then, when an app was linked against a symlink, and that left-over-app too, the dynamic loader may not load a newly installed library, but reuses the one in memory (from the left-over-app). [1] It's still valid, that no reboot is needed, but you sure can be unlucky :) Bye, Daniel [1] don't take this info for granted, I'm no expert in this - just what I understood from reading... This can be true. I have ran into this a couple times. I sometimes go to single user, rc single, and when I look at the running processes, they are still some X or KDE processes running. If I understand how this works tho, any new things will start with the new files and not the old ones. For example, you have Konqueror open and running and it is updated. If you open a new one from the menu, it should load the new files. A lot of this would depend on how it forks I guess. I think Seamonkey for example would just fork from the original process and would use the old files or maybe give a error message. I know it looks for a already running process when it starts. I guess some of this depends on how the program is
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Mickaël Bucas wrote: 2009/12/11 Alan McKinnon : On Friday 11 December 2009 13:02:36 Helmut Jarausch wrote: Many thanks Alan, so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, isn't it? No, not at all, you conclude wrongly. Unix works the way it does precisely so you *don't* require a reboot to use new libraries. They are already there and fully installed and fully operational. You just have to start using them - this may require restarting the relevant app that uses them and perhaps ldconfig. To find out which files have been replaced, you can use the following command : lsof | grep DEL This will give you all files that have been deleted since they have been loaded by the process. >From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important services like udev. Mickaël Bucas Actually, you can kill udev and restart it. Kill the process and then run "/sbin/udevd --daemon" and it will be started again. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 15:16:01 Dale wrote: > Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a > technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new > kernel. > And these days, not even then :-) [it requires some voodoo but is certainly possible] [[and I don't mean build and install a new kernel, I really do mean loa ti into memory and run it, dispensing with the old one]] -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
2009/12/11 Alan McKinnon : > On Friday 11 December 2009 13:02:36 Helmut Jarausch wrote: >> Many thanks Alan, >> >> so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, >> isn't it? > > No, not at all, you conclude wrongly. > > Unix works the way it does precisely so you *don't* require a reboot to use > new libraries. They are already there and fully installed and fully > operational. You just have to start using them - this may require restarting > the relevant app that uses them and perhaps ldconfig. > To find out which files have been replaced, you can use the following command : lsof | grep DEL This will give you all files that have been deleted since they have been loaded by the process. >From the process name, you can deduce the service and restart it. I've never needed a reboot for this kind of problem. You may have to switch to run level 1 to restart some important services like udev. > Windows is the brain-dead johnnie-come-lately here that requires reboots. But > then again, Windows requires a reboot when it detects the pointer has moved so > that isn't surprising > >> On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is >> not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just >> hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly >> each day). > > It was probably trying to use different versions of two matched libs. You > should not have needed a reboot to fix that. > > > -- > alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com > > Mickaël Bucas
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 07:16 -0600, Dale wrote: > Helmut Jarausch wrote: > > On 11 Dec, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > >> On Friday 11 December 2009 11:11:41 Helmut Jarausch wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). > >>> > >>> When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an > >>> error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. > >>> > >>> How does portage succeed anyway. > >>> (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since sometimes > >>> only rebooting solves some very strange problems) > >>> > >>> How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 > >>> or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? > >>> > >>> Many thanks for enlightening me, > >>> Helmut. > >>> > >>> > >> Portage does nothing special, as dealing with this is a Unix thing. > >> > >> On Unix, the inode is the file, not the directory entry. If you want to > >> replace an open file, the system simply does it and updates the dentry to > >> point to a new inode. Any spp using the old file will continue to use it > >> as it > >> still has a handle to the inode. The inode is only fully deleted when the > >> last > >> app using it closes it > >> > >> If you update a library to a new version with an API break, the lib should > >> get > >> a new soname so the file is a different name, hence no collision (symlinks > >> to > >> libraries excepted). > >> > >> This is how it should work, any code that tries to do it a different way > >> is by > >> definition broken, that's why portage needs take no special measures. > >> > >> All of this is in complete contrast to other broken systems, such as > >> Windows > >> for example. On Windows, the filename IS the file, so upgrades are > >> horrible. > >> Installers must put the file somewhere else and have the final steps and > >> registry updates done at next reboot before anything has a chance to open > >> libs. This is why fairly deep updates on Windows often require multiple > >> reboot > >> - multiple apps installed multiple libs to be fiddled with multiple times > >> > >> > >> > > > > Many thanks Alan, > > > > so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, > > isn't it? > > On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is > > not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just > > hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly > > each day). > > > > Thanks again Alan, > > Helmut. > > > > I'll add two cents here. Let's say I upgrade Seamonkey which is my web > browser / email program. I sync and notice there is a update to > Seamonkey available and I let emerge update it. When the install is > complete, I don't have to reboot or even log out of KDE. All I have to > do is close Seamonkey and start it again. It will then load the new > updated version and run it. > > The same could be said for a service like cups. If you update cups, all > you have to do is restart the service. It will stop the old service > then load up the new service that was just installed. Just a simple > "/etc/init.d/cupsd restart" will work just fine. > > If you upgrade something kde, say kdelibs or some other kde base > package, then all you need to do is log out of KDE and log back in > again. Sort of the same with updating xorg, logout, go to a console and > restart xdm or whatever you use to start X. I usually use the ctrl alt > backspace key but restarting the service is better, or so some have said > anyway. > > Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a > technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new > kernel. > > Hope that helps a little. > > Dale > > :-) :-) I absolutely concur with Alan and Dale, I just want to warn a bit about complex X11-environments like gnome or kde. If you logout and login again, it is NOT secure, that all gnome/kde/qt apps have been closed. There are services (gconf, kded, pulse, etc) that take a time to quit, or sometimes just don't :( Then, when an app was linked against a symlink, and that left-over-app too, the dynamic loader may not load a newly installed library, but reuses the one in memory (from the left-over-app). [1] It's still valid, that no reboot is needed, but you sure can be unlucky :) Bye, Daniel [1] don't take this info for granted, I'm no expert in this - just what I understood from reading... -- PGP key @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de/pks/lookup?search=0xBB9D4887&op=get # gpg --recv-keys --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net 0xBB9D4887 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Helmut Jarausch wrote: On 11 Dec, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 11 December 2009 11:11:41 Helmut Jarausch wrote: Hi, I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. How does portage succeed anyway. (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since sometimes only rebooting solves some very strange problems) How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? Many thanks for enlightening me, Helmut. Portage does nothing special, as dealing with this is a Unix thing. On Unix, the inode is the file, not the directory entry. If you want to replace an open file, the system simply does it and updates the dentry to point to a new inode. Any spp using the old file will continue to use it as it still has a handle to the inode. The inode is only fully deleted when the last app using it closes it If you update a library to a new version with an API break, the lib should get a new soname so the file is a different name, hence no collision (symlinks to libraries excepted). This is how it should work, any code that tries to do it a different way is by definition broken, that's why portage needs take no special measures. All of this is in complete contrast to other broken systems, such as Windows for example. On Windows, the filename IS the file, so upgrades are horrible. Installers must put the file somewhere else and have the final steps and registry updates done at next reboot before anything has a chance to open libs. This is why fairly deep updates on Windows often require multiple reboot - multiple apps installed multiple libs to be fiddled with multiple times Many thanks Alan, so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, isn't it? On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly each day). Thanks again Alan, Helmut. I'll add two cents here. Let's say I upgrade Seamonkey which is my web browser / email program. I sync and notice there is a update to Seamonkey available and I let emerge update it. When the install is complete, I don't have to reboot or even log out of KDE. All I have to do is close Seamonkey and start it again. It will then load the new updated version and run it. The same could be said for a service like cups. If you update cups, all you have to do is restart the service. It will stop the old service then load up the new service that was just installed. Just a simple "/etc/init.d/cupsd restart" will work just fine. If you upgrade something kde, say kdelibs or some other kde base package, then all you need to do is log out of KDE and log back in again. Sort of the same with updating xorg, logout, go to a console and restart xdm or whatever you use to start X. I usually use the ctrl alt backspace key but restarting the service is better, or so some have said anyway. Rebooting will also do all of this but it is not needed. From a technical stand point, the only time you must reboot is to load a new kernel. Hope that helps a little. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Which LiveCD for Intel Core2 Duo?
Well, if you wantto install a 64bit env. then you have to use the AMD64 livecd. IA64 isn't the 64bit architecture :-) Zeerak On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:00:22 +0100, Erik wrote: I will install Gentoo Linux on a Dell laptop with Intel Core2 Dua and 8GiB RAM. I tried 2 different LiveCDs. x86 boots fine, but does not seem to find all memory. IA64 does not boot. Are there hidden versions like x86_64?
Re: [gentoo-user] Which LiveCD for Intel Core2 Duo?
Am 11.12.2009 13:00, schrieb Erik: > I will install Gentoo Linux on a Dell laptop with Intel Core2 Dua and > 8GiB RAM. I tried 2 different LiveCDs. x86 boots fine, but does not seem > to find all memory. IA64 does not boot. Are there hidden versions like > x86_64? > Hi, you need the amd64 LiveCD. IA64 is for Itanium Server and not compatible for normal desktop 64bit PCs. Even if the name amd64 suggests that it is only for amd cpus you can and must use this even for intel cpus because amd produced the first 64bit desktop pcs and Intel now is amd64-compatible. Greetings Sebastian
Re: [gentoo-user] Which LiveCD for Intel Core2 Duo?
On Friday 11 December 2009 14:00:22 Erik wrote: > I will install Gentoo Linux on a Dell laptop with Intel Core2 Dua and > 8GiB RAM. I tried 2 different LiveCDs. x86 boots fine, but does not seem > to find all memory. IA64 does not boot. Are there hidden versions like > x86_64? > IA64 is for a completely different processor - Itanium. Do you have an HP SuperDome? No? Then you can't run IA64. You want amd64 -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Which LiveCD for Intel Core2 Duo?
I will install Gentoo Linux on a Dell laptop with Intel Core2 Dua and 8GiB RAM. I tried 2 different LiveCDs. x86 boots fine, but does not seem to find all memory. IA64 does not boot. Are there hidden versions like x86_64?
Re: [gentoo-user] 2.6.31 vfat driver broken?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2009 at 04:58:35PM +0100, Penguin Lover Frank Steinmetzger squawked: > > You are not running any sort of LVM, RAID, or encryption, are you? > > A similar bug seems to have occured in device mapper, where dm gave > > the underlying fs the wrong values for max_hw_sector. > > I reckon that's more like it - all my external hard drives are truecrypted. > Ah. This may or maynot be the culprit: truecrypt does add one extra layer in the chain. Unfortunately I don't know anything about it. Good luck, W -- Pillage before you burn. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1099 days, 10:28
Re: [gentoo-user] 2.6.31 vfat driver broken?
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 03:18:20AM +0100, Penguin Lover Frank Steinmetzger squawked: > Am Donnerstag, 10. Dezember 2009 schrieb Willie Wong: > > > When you plug-in your device, what does > > /sys/block/sdb/queue/max_hw_sectors_kb say? > > 120 Okay, this checks out with the > hw_sector_size says 512 > > I did another "test": I opened the syslog in continuous output (tail -f) and > watched it while copying a file of 350 MB. Coincidentally it started getting > said error "bio too big device sdb (248 > 240)" at about 120 MB (according to > the progress bar of KDE's copy dialogue). Sorry, I may not have been clear in my previous e-mail. You showed me /sys//max_hw_sectors_kb and /sys//hw_sector_size But what does /sys//max_sectors_kb contain? (Also, if possible, can you also show me the same values for the 2.6.30 kernel?) If the max_sectors_kb is bigger than max_hw_sectors_kb, then something that shouldn't happen happened and the kernel is trying to send more data than the driver can handle. And that might be where you got your error from. If that is the case, a work around is to manually, as root, 'echo 120 > /sys/block/sdb/queue/max_sectors_kb'. Now, like I said, it shouldn't happen that max_sectors is > max_hw_sectors, since they should've been set equal the the block device is detected. If the two values both show 120, please try changing max_sectors_kb to a smaller multiple of 8 (64 is a candidate), and see if the problem persists. If this fixes the error, there is an off-by-one kernel bug, and you should file it either at b.g.o. to pass it upstream, or if you are brave (and running a vanilla kernel) send it directly to LKML. If neither of these works, then I am on the completely wrong track. Cheers, W -- Where do you get Mercury? H.G. Wells Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1099 days, 10:14
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 13:02:36 Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Many thanks Alan, > > so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, > isn't it? No, not at all, you conclude wrongly. Unix works the way it does precisely so you *don't* require a reboot to use new libraries. They are already there and fully installed and fully operational. You just have to start using them - this may require restarting the relevant app that uses them and perhaps ldconfig. Windows is the brain-dead johnnie-come-lately here that requires reboots. But then again, Windows requires a reboot when it detects the pointer has moved so that isn't surprising > On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is > not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just > hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly > each day). It was probably trying to use different versions of two matched libs. You should not have needed a reboot to fix that. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On 11 Dec, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 11 December 2009 11:11:41 Helmut Jarausch wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). >> >> When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an >> error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. >> >> How does portage succeed anyway. >> (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since sometimes >> only rebooting solves some very strange problems) >> >> How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 >> or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? >> >> Many thanks for enlightening me, >> Helmut. >> > > Portage does nothing special, as dealing with this is a Unix thing. > > On Unix, the inode is the file, not the directory entry. If you want to > replace an open file, the system simply does it and updates the dentry to > point to a new inode. Any spp using the old file will continue to use it as > it > still has a handle to the inode. The inode is only fully deleted when the > last > app using it closes it > > If you update a library to a new version with an API break, the lib should > get > a new soname so the file is a different name, hence no collision (symlinks to > libraries excepted). > > This is how it should work, any code that tries to do it a different way is > by > definition broken, that's why portage needs take no special measures. > > All of this is in complete contrast to other broken systems, such as Windows > for example. On Windows, the filename IS the file, so upgrades are horrible. > Installers must put the file somewhere else and have the final steps and > registry updates done at next reboot before anything has a chance to open > libs. This is why fairly deep updates on Windows often require multiple > reboot > - multiple apps installed multiple libs to be fiddled with multiple times > Many thanks Alan, so I conclude that rebooting IS necessary to get the new libraries used, isn't it? On the other hand running applications should continue to run, which is not always the case, e.g. recently using cvs as non-root user just hanged. Rebooting the system solved it (since I update my system nearly each day). Thanks again Alan, Helmut. -- Helmut Jarausch Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik RWTH - Aachen University D 52056 Aachen, Germany
Re: [gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
On Friday 11 December 2009 11:11:41 Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Hi, > > I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). > > When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an > error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. > > How does portage succeed anyway. > (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since sometimes > only rebooting solves some very strange problems) > > How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 > or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? > > Many thanks for enlightening me, > Helmut. > Portage does nothing special, as dealing with this is a Unix thing. On Unix, the inode is the file, not the directory entry. If you want to replace an open file, the system simply does it and updates the dentry to point to a new inode. Any spp using the old file will continue to use it as it still has a handle to the inode. The inode is only fully deleted when the last app using it closes it If you update a library to a new version with an API break, the lib should get a new soname so the file is a different name, hence no collision (symlinks to libraries excepted). This is how it should work, any code that tries to do it a different way is by definition broken, that's why portage needs take no special measures. All of this is in complete contrast to other broken systems, such as Windows for example. On Windows, the filename IS the file, so upgrades are horrible. Installers must put the file somewhere else and have the final steps and registry updates done at next reboot before anything has a chance to open libs. This is why fairly deep updates on Windows often require multiple reboot - multiple apps installed multiple libs to be fiddled with multiple times -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] What magic does portage use?
Hi, I'm curious how portage solves its most difficult part (in my eyes). When installing a dynamic library (by "hand") I have often got an error messages if the corresponding library is currently in use. How does portage succeed anyway. (I have the suspicion that it does not succeed always, since sometimes only rebooting solves some very strange problems) How to replace fundamental X11-libaries on a system running X11 or even more suprising, how can I replace a running glibc ? Many thanks for enlightening me, Helmut. -- Helmut Jarausch Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik RWTH - Aachen University D 52056 Aachen, Germany
