Re: [gentoo-user] Intel Atom: architecture, distcc, crossdev and compile flags
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:41:03 +0100, Florian Philipp wrote: I personally see no reason for encrypting root as there is nothing of interest in there. No passwords in /etc? The main reason I encrypt / is that wicd keeps its passwords in /etc. I substitute with symlinks to /var/lib/*, /srv/* or similar. I used to do that, although I linked to /home/etc, but I found myself adding more and more and worried about missing something important. So I decided to learn how to create an initramfs and now have all but /boot (and sometimes /usr) encrypted. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 5: Twelve-ounce pound cake signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Will ARM take over the world?
I don't think that's right. I have a Pandaboard ES with a dual-core 1.2Ghz CPU and 1GB RAM and I bet it would run Gnome just fine. Again, maybe you're referring to something here that I'm not familiar with. I think the key word was micro, but is that off topic (ignoring subject)? Many (such as lennart and some kernel devs such as GKH even) seem to think embedded applies only to the mobile world when in fact mobile is a small fraction of it. Even below Uclinux type systems, there is nuttx linux or rowebots for example which is in a similar position to what mobile was in the generic kernel. -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) ___
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
I believe NUMA is only used on multiprocessor machine and not on only multicore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Uniform_Memory_Access 2012/12/13 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org Florian Philipp li...@binarywings.net wrote: Am 13.12.2012 07:23, schrieb Alan McKinnon: On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:12:18 -0800 Grant emailgr...@gmail.com wrote: I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. What sort of complications does that add to set up and/or maintenance with Gentoo? No complication. Configure CONFIG_SMP in the the kernel for multicore. Everything else is transparent. Cores make threads work better, so you'd want to investigate if USE=threads is useful for you. I think he's looking for advice on NUMA, not SMP. NUMA is also an option in the kernel. Should also be fully transparent. I got one machine with NUMA and only had to set an option for it. Does anyone know how to check it's working properly? -- Joost -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Luis Gustavo Vilela de Oliveira luisgustavo.vil...@gmail.com wrote: I believe NUMA is only used on multiprocessor machine and not on only multicore. NUMA's about memory access so it's about cores/CPUs/processors/whatever_you_want_to_call_it and how they access memory. [...] NUMA is also an option in the kernel. Should also be fully transparent. I got one machine with NUMA and only had to set an option for it. Does anyone know how to check it's working properly? You could use numactl and place your binary on certain nodes (cores) and check whether that works. You should also check your code uses OpenMP, threading, ... for example. Monitor your CPU and memory also while your software is running ;) What SW are you going to be running? Do you know if your software is SMP and/or NUMA aware? Rafa
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Will ARM take over the world?
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 05:00:09PM -0800, Grant wrote When you say embedded kernels you may mean something I'm not familiar with, but I use a patched vanilla kernel with Gentoo on the Beaglebone and it works great. No uclibc and no busybox. I'm thinking more along the lines of ADSL router/modems, e.g. the Linksys WRT54G series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series with Broadcom CPUs. DD-WRT is a basic linux that is configured to act as a firewall/router/etc. See http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Will ARM take over the world?
On Sat, Dec 08, 2012 at 10:51:15PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote It's looking promising. Not that I have a horse in the race, but I very much like ARM's low power consumption. An update to my earlier response. A slasdot article at http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/intel-launches-centerton-to-take-on-arm/ As expected, Intel launched its Atom S1200 System-on-a-Chip (SoC) Dec. 11. Intel hopes that the 6-watt architecture-developed under the codename Centerton-will allow it to push back against the emerging ARM microserver market. The Atom S1200 is a dual-core 64-bit chip. It's been optimized for servers and the data center, with features including ECC, virtualization, and hyperthreading (the lattermost is capable of delivering four threads per chip). The eight lanes of PCI Express 2.0, along with a memory controller supporting up to 8 GBytes of DDR3 memory, help make the S1200 a true System-on-a-Chip. And the usual discussions/flamewrs are at... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/12/12/1712200/intel-announces-atom-s1200-soc-for-high-density-servers -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Will ARM take over the world?
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 01:06:23PM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 13, 2012 12:10 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: It's nice to see a chip designer not falling into the intel trap of trying to rape every customer for every last cent they have! Don't get me started on that... I hate them for 'selectively' making CPU Features available. In my previous company, we more than once have to send back newly-purchased PCs because apparently the model we ordered had an 'upgrade', yet the *newer* CPU doesn't support VT-x. Such thing never happen with AMD Desktop CPUs. That's why my next home rig will be AMD-based. The first PC I built was in 1984, and no longer remember which CPU was used. Since the mid 90s I've only bought one Intel CPU (2002), and that because I'd been living in China only a month, couldn't speak the language, and the guy helping me who spoke a little Engrish reported the salesman said AMD quit making CPUs. Being sorely in need of a server, I just bought it. Happy Penguin Computers doesn't buy anything from Intel ... period. As my daughter says, Daddy, don't compromise your convictions! -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 08:44:45AM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: NUMA is also an option in the kernel. Should also be fully transparent. I got one machine with NUMA and only had to set an option for it. Does anyone know how to check it's working properly? dmesg | grep NUMA -- Happy Penguin Computers ') 126 Fenco Drive ( \ Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^ supp...@happypenguincomputers.com 662-269-2706 662-205-6424 http://happypenguincomputers.com/ Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting
Re: [gentoo-user] Mounting floppy disks
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:54 AM, David W Noon dwn...@ntlworld.com wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 23:59:52 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote about [gentoo-user] Mounting floppy disks: For some reason, when I mount floppy disk (standard HD 3.5 VFAT disk) Floppies are normally formatted as FAT12, not VFAT. Eh. I've seen FAT16 and FAT32 on 1.44MB floppies. Anyway, Paul should try file -s /dev/fd0 and mount -t auto /dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy Yes, that's what I've tried, and variations of -t auto and -t msdos and -t vfat. So it was simply not working as expected... I'm not at home now so I can't test, but I believe I've found the explanation and probably the answer: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=338185 It seems udisks:0 is unmounting my floppy as soon as I've mounted it. There are various workarounds, ultimately removal of udisks:0 should make the problem go away, but that is impossible at the moment because I still have packages which depend on it. It seems Gentoo devs are actively in the process of trying to eliminate udisks:0 so the problem won't last forever. Until then there are work-arounds described in the bug report that I can use. I will try when I'm at home and provide an update then. Thanks for your help. Tested at home and it seems this is in fact the cause of my problems.
Re: [gentoo-user] ifconfig and ppp0 address
I'm interested also, thanks good sir * Kevin Chadwick (ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk) wrote: I can send you the source code if you want. Likewise to any other interested reader Send to me please, Thanks -- Trevor D. Manning BOFH Excuse #98: The vendor put the bug there.
[gentoo-user] eudev
Upon syncing, my system wants to upgrade to eudev. [blocks B] sys-fs/udev (sys-fs/udev is blocking sys-fs/eudev-0) Not much out there; but I gleaned it is for those that insist on a separate partition for /var and /usr. Any other motivating reasons? equery depends eudev * These packages depend on eudev: virtual/udev-196 (=sys-fs/eudev-1_beta1[gudev?,hwdb?,introspection?,keymap? ,selinux?,static-libs?]) I really do not want eudev, at this time. I just recovered a system that is now running sys-fs/udev-196-r1. I did recently put these into my package.keywords. =sys-fs/udev-196-r1 ~amd64 =virtual/udev-196 ~amd64 =sys-fs/udev-init-scripts-17-r1 ~amd64 But I do not want to go to eudev (not till it's sable and necessary. Is this the best (most current) info on setting up udev-196 ? http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Udev Some discussion and guidance would be keenly appreciated. cautiously, James
[gentoo-user] Re: Dual or Quad CPU complications?
Grant emailgrant at gmail.com writes: I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. NUMA is specialization, imho: http://pubs.vmware.com/vsphere-4-esx-vcenter/index.jsp?topic=/com.vmware.vsphere.resourcemanagement.doc_41/using_numa_systems_with_esx_esxi/c_what_is_numa.html The more cores the better. 6 and 8 are readily available. The 6 core AMD near 4 GHz is the sweet spot, imho. Here is a 4 core on sale at Newegg: AMD FX-4170 Zambezi 4.2GHz If you run a feature rich desktop (kde, gnome, etc) then the more cores the better. Compiling code is much faster and you can still have a snappy desk top. Most gentoo folks compile quite a bit of code, depending on your updates and how often you experiment with new features or software. I'm setting up some new FX-8350 machines, but fully flushed out, there around a 1K (USD). Surely you can replace a mobo with a quad and as much ram as will fit, and get a fine machine. CPU speed, for me, is the dominate feature, when you are only doing a few things for a snappy workstation. Lots of cores and low CPU speed and low ram, sucks, imho. Max amount and max speed of the RAM is the killer performance edge for most workstations, imho. It boils down to a personal decision. The world of software is migrating to multi-threading, so the more cores, the more future-proof, imho. hth, James
[gentoo-user] Locale generation and keymaps for cross compiliation?
Hi, I have a Raspberry Pi. I have gone through the cross development guides on gentoo.org and my barebones distro (consisting of chrony, sshd, bash) is ready (all I did is armv6j-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-emerge --root=/mnt/sdcard baselayout bash openssh chrony) which is of course after setting up the toolchain using crossdev. Now the problem is, since I'm on amd64 box (and don't have an ARM emulator), how do I generate the locale [without using an ARM emulator]? Also, how to go about keymaps? /usr/share/keymaps seems to be missing in the tree and equery returned no packages owning those files. -- Nilesh Govindarajan http://nileshgr.com
[gentoo-user] Re: Locale generation and keymaps for cross compiliation?
On Thursday 13 December 2012 11:28:35 PM IST, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, I have a Raspberry Pi. I have gone through the cross development guides on gentoo.org and my barebones distro (consisting of chrony, sshd, bash) is ready (all I did is armv6j-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-emerge --root=/mnt/sdcard baselayout bash openssh chrony) which is of course after setting up the toolchain using crossdev. Now the problem is, since I'm on amd64 box (and don't have an ARM emulator), how do I generate the locale [without using an ARM emulator]? Also, how to go about keymaps? /usr/share/keymaps seems to be missing in the tree and equery returned no packages owning those files. Oh dammit. The $ROOT shell variable was polluting my equery output. Installed kbd and solved the keymaps issue. Now how to generate the locale? -- Nilesh Govindarajan http://nileshgr.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
Am 13.12.2012 07:12, schrieb Grant: I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. What sort of complications does that add to set up and/or maintenance with Gentoo? - Grant If you want to run mysql with high memory usage on that machine, you might want to read http://blog.jcole.us/2010/09/28/mysql-swap-insanity-and-the-numa-architecture/ Everything else that I can think of already has beed said. Oh, tweak MAKEOPTS for a faster compile time, you also might want to look at emerges --jobs and --load-average parameters
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
Am Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2012, 22:12:18 schrieb Grant: I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. What sort of complications does that add to set up and/or maintenance with Gentoo? none also, forget numa. You won't deal with douzends of cores each using local memory and acccession the memory managed by the other cores. - Grant -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Intel Atom: architecture, distcc, crossdev and compile flags
Am Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2012, 02:40:04 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger: On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 09:20:55PM +0100, Florian Philipp wrote: * From my observations, the benefit of 64 bit over 32 is much smaller for an Atom than it is for my Core2. Am I right to assume thus that the Atom architecture doesn’t have much to offer to 64 bit (such as extra registers)? I’m not talking about memory here, since it’s limited to 2 GB in any case. It has the same set of registers as your Core2. Incidentally, when I initially set up the netbook, the output of gcc -march=native -E -v - /dev/null 21 | sed -n 's/.* -v - //p' (which floated around the ML in the past) implied core2, IIRC. It's just that the Atom micro-architecture is terrible with regard to 64bit. That's just about the only reason that x32 was invented (and now that I've said it, I'm just waiting for the flamewar about it). Terrible in what way? Inadequate memory throughput? I didn't know x32, but from what I've read in the last few minutes it sounds intriguing. terrible at dealing with 64bit numbers. Terrible at everything pretty much. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Will ARM take over the world?
Am Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2012, 19:33:58 schrieb Walter Dnes: It would be interesting to see a micro port of Gentoo. But you can forget about bringing over KDE-OS, GNOME-OS, or CHROME-OS. If/when gnash is finally ready, or HTML replaces Flash, I could see Gentoo running with ICEWM or a lightweight desktop like XFCE or LXDE. SLAX is using KDE4 - and uses 200mb. KDE is flexible. If you have lots of memory, it does use lots of memory. If you don't it doesn't. So don't group it together with 'lets force mono unto our users - for a notes application' gnome or 'you can always add another 4gig' chrome. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Locale generation and keymaps for cross compiliation?
On 12/13/2012 11:58, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, I have a Raspberry Pi. I have gone through the cross development guides on gentoo.org and my barebones distro (consisting of chrony, sshd, bash) is ready (all I did is armv6j-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-emerge --root=/mnt/sdcard baselayout bash openssh chrony) which is of course after setting up the toolchain using crossdev. Now the problem is, since I'm on amd64 box (and don't have an ARM emulator), how do I generate the locale [without using an ARM emulator]? Also, how to go about keymaps? /usr/share/keymaps seems to be missing in the tree and equery returned no packages owning those files. I have been wondering the same thing. If you find the answer, please share it. Incidentally, have you been able to boot the system you created as described? I am working on a very similar setup, but I haven't been able to get bash to work. It complains that it can't find libgcc_s.so.1, and I don't want to install GCC on my Raspberry Pi. Regards, -- ♫Dustin
Re: [gentoo-user] ifconfig and ppp0 address
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 02:33:56 +1100, Trevor D. Manning wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] ifconfig and ppp0 address: I'm interested also, thanks good sir * Kevin Chadwick (ma1l1i...@yahoo.co.uk) wrote: I can send you the source code if you want. Likewise to any other interested reader Send to me please, Thanks Hi Trevor, Attached is a tarball of the source code. Note that you need to check the Makefile, particularly to ensure the CHOST variable is appropriate to your system. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* get_ip_addr.tgz Description: application/compressed-tar signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Locale generation and keymaps for cross compiliation?
On Friday 14 December 2012 03:38 AM, Dustin C. Hatch wrote: On 12/13/2012 11:58, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, I have a Raspberry Pi. I have gone through the cross development guides on gentoo.org and my barebones distro (consisting of chrony, sshd, bash) is ready (all I did is armv6j-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-emerge --root=/mnt/sdcard baselayout bash openssh chrony) which is of course after setting up the toolchain using crossdev. Now the problem is, since I'm on amd64 box (and don't have an ARM emulator), how do I generate the locale [without using an ARM emulator]? Also, how to go about keymaps? /usr/share/keymaps seems to be missing in the tree and equery returned no packages owning those files. I have been wondering the same thing. If you find the answer, please share it. Incidentally, have you been able to boot the system you created as described? I am working on a very similar setup, but I haven't been able to get bash to work. It complains that it can't find libgcc_s.so.1, and I don't want to install GCC on my Raspberry Pi. Regards, Mine doesn't boot either, same shared library error. For now I've set static and static-libs flag at global level, but this is not going to go good when I start installing other stuff over it. I think the best way out would be to install gcc? :S -- Nilesh Govindarajan http://nileshgr.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Locale generation and keymaps for cross compiliation?
On Friday 14 December 2012 11:22:52 AM IST, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On Friday 14 December 2012 03:38 AM, Dustin C. Hatch wrote: On 12/13/2012 11:58, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, I have a Raspberry Pi. I have gone through the cross development guides on gentoo.org and my barebones distro (consisting of chrony, sshd, bash) is ready (all I did is armv6j-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-emerge --root=/mnt/sdcard baselayout bash openssh chrony) which is of course after setting up the toolchain using crossdev. Now the problem is, since I'm on amd64 box (and don't have an ARM emulator), how do I generate the locale [without using an ARM emulator]? Also, how to go about keymaps? /usr/share/keymaps seems to be missing in the tree and equery returned no packages owning those files. I have been wondering the same thing. If you find the answer, please share it. Incidentally, have you been able to boot the system you created as described? I am working on a very similar setup, but I haven't been able to get bash to work. It complains that it can't find libgcc_s.so.1, and I don't want to install GCC on my Raspberry Pi. Regards, Mine doesn't boot either, same shared library error. For now I've set static and static-libs flag at global level, but this is not going to go good when I start installing other stuff over it. I think the best way out would be to install gcc? :S It turns out that if you copy libgcc_s.so and libgcc_s.so.1 from /usr/lib/gcc/armv6j-hardfloat-linux/gnueabi (on host system) to /lib on the sd card, the library error goes away. -- Nilesh Govindarajan http://nileshgr.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. What sort of complications does that add to set up and/or maintenance with Gentoo? No complication. Configure CONFIG_SMP in the the kernel for multicore. Everything else is transparent. Cores make threads work better, so you'd want to investigate if USE=threads is useful for you. I think he's looking for advice on NUMA, not SMP. So if I have 2 physical CPU's with 4 cores each and I enable SMP, I'm using 8 cores? Can NUMA be either enabled or disabled when using more than one physical CPU, or is it required? - Grant
[gentoo-user] {OT} dedicated server or cloud server?
Would everyone here be in favor of a dedicated server over a cloud server from a host with good cloud infrastructure? The cloud server concept is amazing but from what I'm reading a dedicated server at the same price point far outperforms it. - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Dual or Quad CPU complications?
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:55 PM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Grant emailgrant at gmail.com writes: I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. NUMA is specialization, imho: http://pubs.vmware.com/vsphere-4-esx-vcenter/index.jsp?topic=/com.vmware.vsphere.resourcemanagement.doc_41/using_numa_systems_with_esx_esxi/c_what_is_numa.html The more cores the better. 6 and 8 are readily available. The 6 core AMD near 4 GHz is the sweet spot, imho. Here is a 4 core on sale at Newegg: AMD FX-4170 Zambezi 4.2GHz That depends greatly on the applications he's running. If the application(s) is(are) memory bound or I/O bound, more cores doesn't necessarily mean better performance. If you run a feature rich desktop (kde, gnome, etc) then the more cores the better. Compiling code is much faster and you can still have a snappy desk top. Most gentoo folks compile quite a bit of code, depending on your updates and how often you experiment with new features or software. I'm setting up some new FX-8350 machines, but fully flushed out, there around a 1K (USD). Surely you can replace a mobo with a quad and as much ram as will fit, and get a fine machine. CPU speed, for me, is the dominate feature, when you are only doing a few things for a snappy workstation. Lots of cores and low CPU speed and low ram, sucks, imho. Max amount and max speed of the RAM is the killer performance edge for most workstations, imho. MHO and experience is that you need a balanced system, IOW: if you have a whole bunch of cores and GHz but crappy drive ... say bye to performance, you'll be getting iowaits and your cores will be idle :( It boils down to a personal decision. The world of software is migrating to multi-threading, so the more cores, the more future-proof, imho. MHO: it boils down to the software he's running ;) Rafa
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual or Quad CPU complications?
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Mittwoch, 12. Dezember 2012, 22:12:18 schrieb Grant: I've only ever used systems with a single CPU. I'm looking for a new host for a dedicated server (suggestions?) and it looks like I'll probably choose a machine with two or four CPUs. What sort of complications does that add to set up and/or maintenance with Gentoo? none also, forget numa. You won't deal with douzends of cores each using local memory and acccession the memory managed by the other cores. It depends on his application, maybe his application does benefit on NUMA architecture. Until we don't know what he's running, we can't really say this or that architecture/technology is of no use ;) So Volker, what applications are you running (and BTW: what volume of data are you managing, how many users, ...)? This will helps us help you :) Rafa
