Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 8:19 PM, Jack wrote: On 2020.08.20 18:42, james wrote: On 8/20/20 1:20 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:06:39 -0400, james wrote: As you do document all you are doing, and the information you gather, I see several interrelated but distinct areas.� hardware, software (several possibilities for each of several tasks,) network provisioning, and network configuration.� I'd prefer a better term for that last one - but I mean things like assuring your IP address doesn't end up (or start out) in a blacklisted block for any smtp attempts.� In my case, it's mostly that one (plus spam filtering) which gives me hesitation to attempt rolling my own. Black listing seems a valid issue. Here: Down the list is blacklisting. For me it is simple; if Blacklisting occurs, based on the IP addresses I get from Frontier, I'll just ask for different ones and cancel the bad (blacklisted) IPs. I'm telling Frontier up front, that is the reason for the IPs (to run email services) and my "commercial, extra cost" service with them. Power of the checkbook. Truthfully, I *should* be able to ferret out IP addresses that are blacklisted, right? This issue seems to now be the only impediment to continuing this email server(s) of static ip address(es). Frontier is in this document: https://www.ipvoid.com/ip-blacklist-check/ So I can just forward this list and any other tools that identify 'black listed IPs' to my sales contacts at Frontier, Verizon, Spectrum or any other ISP, willing to sell to me bandwidth, bonded with static IP addresses, right? James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 21/08/2020 15:36, Jack wrote: > On 8/21/20 8:28 AM, Victor Ivanov wrote: > I seem to be slow on the pickup with parts of this thread, but I'm not > sure exactly what you are looking for here. I assume you did find how > Balsa handles encryption for sending and receiving mail. If you are > talking about encrypting the local storage of all or selected messages, > I agree it is not a current option. Apologies, I kind of didn't want to fully hijack the thread. You're almost correct except that I'd like to encrypt the remote storage, not the local. Since IMAP works in both directions and allows for a full message, including headers, to be pushed to a given folder (handy for provider migration) one can use this feature to: (1) download a message in full (2) PGP encrypt the message according to RFC and a key of choice (3) push the encrypted message to the server (4) delete/expunge the previous, unencrypted message Both TB/Enigmail and KMail can use this technique to permanently decrypt a PGP encrypted message. The reverse, however, is a bit more clunky. KMail, has a working PGP encrypt filter but its message pushing is not always RFC compliant when it issues the IMAP "APPEND" command to push the message. It uses the current date/time instead of the one in the message's "Date" header which should take precedence according to RFC. This only appears to happen with multi-part messages, is easily reproducible even without PGP, and I have filed a bug report which has never been looked into. Plain-text messages are APPENDed correctly. The net result here is that as some providers, such as GMail, use the timestamp provided in the APPEND command to overwrite the message's Date header this leads to incorrect date/time indexing in folders/labels. So an old message now becomes recent when uploaded. KMail also fails to expunge the old message properly leaving the unencrypted message in addition to the newly pushed encrypted. TB/Enigmail too offers an "Encrypt to key" filter which ought to do the job but is completely broken and does not work at all. On the other hand pushing a message via IMAP works correctly for both plain-text and multi-part messages. The other mail clients that I have mentioned all have a correct APPEND implementation but do not seem to have an option (or filter choices) to perform the PGP procedure above. I'm hopeful that TB 78.2 will have this feature in one form or another. - V signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 8:19 PM, Jack wrote: On 2020.08.20 18:42, james wrote: On 8/20/20 1:20 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:06:39 -0400, james wrote: Look at what I just received: From "Dear User Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. Thanks Verizon✔ My Account Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " That looks like a phishing mail to me. OK. How do I verify or ferret out this to know. Ferret out what? Thunderbird on gentoo is vulnerable? Vulnerable to what? Any email client is subject to receiving SPAM and phishing attempts. Some email clients do have some amount of filtering included, and there are plenty of addons available. I used one of the Bayesian based ones for a while (can't remember the name) and finally gave up due to the difficulty of integrating with Balsa's pop3 fetching. As I remember, it would have been easier to integrate with a mail server than with the client. I've charted my own pathway, via R.P.4 boards and static IP addresses. That way, I can add whatever I want, test, and just run very few codes on those arm8 boards Sure, this has been on my todo list, as I prepare to live/work out of a RV. Eventually, I'll add a satellite link, when all else fails, without large attached files. I'm keeping the home, where the hub/static-IPs will connect, but I can be home or mobile, controlling my own email servers. I've just groan very tired of someone else managing and making decisions on MY email. I've received too many private emails from folks, with the same sentiment. If what I do is well documented, then a plethora of folks can have custom setups, in a well documented fashion. Mine is the hard case with the eventual address of daily mobility, cellular and satellite comms. Migration to R.P.4 has been on my goals list too, for a while. MY goal, via gentoo, is to fix and document this once and for ALL. Your expertise and the rest of the band of Gentoo folks are deeply appreciated in this effort. This action has been brewing for a few years. Email is critical for me, and I do not want vendors dictating its future for me. Enough is Enough. As you do document all you are doing, and the information you gather, I see several interrelated but distinct areas. hardware, software (several possibilities for each of several tasks,) network provisioning, and network configuration. I'd prefer a better term for that last one - but I mean things like assuring your IP address doesn't end up (or start out) in a blacklisted block for any smtp attempts. In my case, it's mostly that one (plus spam filtering) which gives me hesitation to attempt rolling my own. So can/how to I research if the IPv6 addresses offered have been blacklisted ? Same question, should I be able to get (2) IPv4 address. So if I request they are out of different blocks of IPv4, is that better? Just (2) single IP addresses from different blocks? Nest week I start that conversation with carriers. With what I have seen and heard, you'd think carriers, the folks with fiber in the ground, would be happy for a guy like me build a robust and secure email server services system. After all, it is their "ineptness" of employee selection that causes them such pains to run an email system. Surely punting to AOL and such, brings them little or no revenue (speculation on my part). Any insight to these venues, would help me negotiate the resources I need. Surely, this is just for me and a few friends. But, what I read and what other technical friends tell me, is this is an eruption waiting to happen. For many long time unix/bsd/linux folks email is a most critical tool for daily endeavors. The amount of code-snippets alone, in mine, is a treasure trove. James James Jack So
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/21/20 8:28 AM, Victor Ivanov wrote: On 21/08/2020 01:28, Jack wrote: Per my suggtion elsewhere in the thread, have you tried Balsa? I hadn't heard of Balsa up until this thread. It's minimalistic. I like it. But it too fails to satisfy the PGP requirement for filtering and encrypting existing mail. Unless I somehow failed to find the relevant filtering options (v2.6.1). I seem to be slow on the pickup with parts of this thread, but I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for here. I assume you did find how Balsa handles encryption for sending and receiving mail. If you are talking about encrypting the local storage of all or selected messages, I agree it is not a current option. However, from my experience dealing with the development team, they are likely to be receptive to a request/suggestion. I'll be glad to forward the request to them, but only if I better understand what I'm asking them to do.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 21/08/2020 01:28, Jack wrote: > Per my suggtion elsewhere in the thread, have you tried Balsa? I hadn't heard of Balsa up until this thread. It's minimalistic. I like it. But it too fails to satisfy the PGP requirement for filtering and encrypting existing mail. Unless I somehow failed to find the relevant filtering options (v2.6.1). > Can you elaborate on how threading and conversations are different? ... > In terms of combining sent and received messages, unless you are going > to have some way of showing conversations across folders (which don't > exist in gmail) the only way I can think of is to copy your sent > messages into the folder the replies are in, and I do sometimes do > this. I try to set all my mailing lists to send me copies of my own > messages, but doing a bcc to yourself would have the same effect. Well... that's exactly what "conversation" view is. I don't think I have much more to add. Sure, GMail uses labels instead of folders and emulates the latter in IMAP but that's totally irrelevant, so long as said "categories" are available to the mail client. Most email clients can be configured to sync either just mail headers or entire emails for the last X number of days (or all mail). So, at the very least, being able to have an "extended" threaded view (e.g. by means of a virtual folder - just like a unified inbox) so to speak that combines emails from both Inbox and Sent seems rather trivial and could be done whenever (re)indexing subscribed folders. BCC'ing myself or having both sent and incoming mail in one mailbox is a workaround - not a solution. It's neither elegant nor should it be necessary to achieve the above behaviour. KMail so far comes as close as it gets (from what I've seen) to customising threading and appearance of email listing though it too can't combine multiple folders. Anyway, as I said, the PGP and standalone (or exportable) config to me are more important in a mail client. "Conversation" view is more of a desirable feature rather than something I can't live without. - V signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 2020.08.20 20:02, Victor Ivanov wrote: On 20/08/2020 18:16, Jack wrote: >> From what I read, there is much enthusiasm for Claws/Evolution. >> >> Sadly, this direct comparison, seems out of date and does not include >> TB-78, but it is the most comprehensive comparison I have found. A >> direct comparison, that is up to date, would be very cool, imho: >> >> https://appmus.com/vs/mozilla-thunderbird-vs-evolution >> >> and >> >> https://www.techradar.com/best/best-email-clients#best-free-email-clients > This list is pretty unimpressive. Most of their "free" offers aren't. > Their description of Gmail doesn't even mention free use, that I can > see. Then they include Slack - and the main negative is "no email." In > addition, especially for gmail, it's not really an email "client," it's > an email service with web interface. I certainly don't call that an > email client. Am I just too old? I completely agree. Unfortunately, I think it's a sad state of affairs wrt mail clients these days. I tried many of the open-source ones such as TB, Evolution, Claws Mail, Geary, and KMail. While there is a lot of personal preferences when it comes to choice, it seems neither of these can get a few simple things I'm personally looking for into a single package: Per my suggtion elsewhere in the thread, have you tried Balsa? - stand-alone configuration: being able to rsync "~/.client" or "~/.config/client" across multiple machines or through a decent export/import functionality is rather critical when working from different machines. Not a fan of KDE's Akonadi, though I appreciate what it tries to do as a whole. - decent PGP support: In particular, being able to (re) encrypt existing and unencrypted emails either on-demand, en-masse via filter, or automatically upon receipt of a new one. All the above clients fail this point for different reasons. - No Gnome 3-like BS interface [luckily most satisfy this]: Gnome 3's "simplicity" is not only ugly but also utterly dysfunctional. When I see an application utilising Gnome 3 conventions for UI design it leaves my drive faster than the speed of light (it seems things can indeed travel faster in such cases) - Conversation view [none have that] It may seem silly and it's certainly a personal preference, but GMail's conversation view is incredibly useful to me. None of the above are capable of combining sent and received mail in correct order with the option to either scroll through to the end or collapse individual emails. Yes, threaded mail is similar and is better than nothing but it's not the same. Though TB's threading often breaks and requires a folder rebuild to get it right. Can you elaborate on how threading and conversations are different? The only breakage in threading I seem to find is when someone's email client seems to omit any reference type headers, so that reply starts a new thread/conversation, and that affects both TB and Balsa. Balsa uses a modified JWZ threading, modified so you don't get an older message indented under a newer one (based on simply having the same subject, but otherwise unrelated.) I actually traded a few emails with JWZ himself on that topic. In terms of combining sent and received messages, unless you are going to have some way of showing conversations across folders (which don't exist in gmail) the only way I can think of is to copy your sent messages into the folder the replies are in, and I do sometimes do this. I try to set all my mailing lists to send me copies of my own messages, but doing a bcc to yourself would have the same effect. So I keep reverting to TB whose main drawback for me so far has been the PGP support. I hope TB 78 resolves this, but I'm not fond at all of the approach they have taken to ditch external tools (i.e. GnuPG) in favour of a built-in separate key management tool. If anyone has been able to successfully achieve the PGP point, preferably with TB/Enigmail or KMail, I would be very grateful for some input. - V
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 2020.08.20 18:42, james wrote: On 8/20/20 1:20 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:06:39 -0400, james wrote: Look at what I just received: From "Dear User Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. Thanks Verizon✔ My Account Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " That looks like a phishing mail to me. OK. How do I verify or ferret out this to know. Ferret out what? Thunderbird on gentoo is vulnerable? Vulnerable to what? Any email client is subject to receiving SPAM and phishing attempts. Some email clients do have some amount of filtering included, and there are plenty of addons available. I used one of the Bayesian based ones for a while (can't remember the name) and finally gave up due to the difficulty of integrating with Balsa's pop3 fetching. As I remember, it would have been easier to integrate with a mail server than with the client. I've charted my own pathway, via R.P.4 boards and static IP addresses. That way, I can add whatever I want, test, and just run very few codes on those arm8 boards Sure, this has been on my todo list, as I prepare to live/work out of a RV. Eventually, I'll add a satellite link, when all else fails, without large attached files. I'm keeping the home, where the hub/static-IPs will connect, but I can be home or mobile, controlling my own email servers. I've just groan very tired of someone else managing and making decisions on MY email. I've received too many private emails from folks, with the same sentiment. If what I do is well documented, then a plethora of folks can have custom setups, in a well documented fashion. Mine is the hard case with the eventual address of daily mobility, cellular and satellite comms. Migration to R.P.4 has been on my goals list too, for a while. MY goal, via gentoo, is to fix and document this once and for ALL. Your expertise and the rest of the band of Gentoo folks are deeply appreciated in this effort. This action has been brewing for a few years. Email is critical for me, and I do not want vendors dictating its future for me. Enough is Enough. As you do document all you are doing, and the information you gather, I see several interrelated but distinct areas. hardware, software (several possibilities for each of several tasks,) network provisioning, and network configuration. I'd prefer a better term for that last one - but I mean things like assuring your IP address doesn't end up (or start out) in a blacklisted block for any smtp attempts. In my case, it's mostly that one (plus spam filtering) which gives me hesitation to attempt rolling my own. James Jack
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 20/08/2020 18:16, Jack wrote: >> From what I read, there is much enthusiasm for Claws/Evolution. >> >> Sadly, this direct comparison, seems out of date and does not include >> TB-78, but it is the most comprehensive comparison I have found. A >> direct comparison, that is up to date, would be very cool, imho: >> >> https://appmus.com/vs/mozilla-thunderbird-vs-evolution >> >> and >> >> https://www.techradar.com/best/best-email-clients#best-free-email-clients > This list is pretty unimpressive. Most of their "free" offers aren't. > Their description of Gmail doesn't even mention free use, that I can > see. Then they include Slack - and the main negative is "no email." In > addition, especially for gmail, it's not really an email "client," it's > an email service with web interface. I certainly don't call that an > email client. Am I just too old? I completely agree. Unfortunately, I think it's a sad state of affairs wrt mail clients these days. I tried many of the open-source ones such as TB, Evolution, Claws Mail, Geary, and KMail. While there is a lot of personal preferences when it comes to choice, it seems neither of these can get a few simple things I'm personally looking for into a single package: - stand-alone configuration: being able to rsync "~/.client" or "~/.config/client" across multiple machines or through a decent export/import functionality is rather critical when working from different machines. Not a fan of KDE's Akonadi, though I appreciate what it tries to do as a whole. - decent PGP support: In particular, being able to (re) encrypt existing and unencrypted emails either on-demand, en-masse via filter, or automatically upon receipt of a new one. All the above clients fail this point for different reasons. - No Gnome 3-like BS interface [luckily most satisfy this]: Gnome 3's "simplicity" is not only ugly but also utterly dysfunctional. When I see an application utilising Gnome 3 conventions for UI design it leaves my drive faster than the speed of light (it seems things can indeed travel faster in such cases) - Conversation view [none have that] It may seem silly and it's certainly a personal preference, but GMail's conversation view is incredibly useful to me. None of the above are capable of combining sent and received mail in correct order with the option to either scroll through to the end or collapse individual emails. Yes, threaded mail is similar and is better than nothing but it's not the same. Though TB's threading often breaks and requires a folder rebuild to get it right. So I keep reverting to TB whose main drawback for me so far has been the PGP support. I hope TB 78 resolves this, but I'm not fond at all of the approach they have taken to ditch external tools (i.e. GnuPG) in favour of a built-in separate key management tool. If anyone has been able to successfully achieve the PGP point, preferably with TB/Enigmail or KMail, I would be very grateful for some input. - V signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 1:10 PM, Jack wrote: On 8/20/20 1:06 PM, james wrote: On 8/19/20 6:16 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:37:30 -0400, james wrote: It was release mid July: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? https://bugs.gentoo.org/733062 "Mozilla Thunderbird 78.0 is now available. However, we don't plan to bump until 78.2 release because of known problems and upstream's advice not to upgrade yet. Thunderbird 78.2 is scheduled for end of August 2020." It's on my schedule. Thanks. Look at what I just received: From Is that really the admin address for your Verizon email? "Dear User Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown The address and this wording really sound to me much more like phishing than a real notice from Verizon. UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. Is that link really to the Verizon login, or a phishing look-alike? Actual email. Verizon is shutting it down. Frontier never offered email services. Verified by Frontier phone support. Those are facts. The 'phishing' email I posted, sure that's most likely a hack attempt. I never follow such links and would first verify by 'out of band' verication, like a contact to a verizon security personel. I have plenty of those and routinely turn down unsolicited jobs offers, directly from Verizon. Trust me, they are ending traditional email services. Sorry for conflating that phish diatribe with real Verizon email services issues. I process too many emails each day I've heard from many sources they *all* intend to shut down email services. IMHO time for folks to run their own email servers, ymmv. Besides, I have at least a billion reasons to do this... We're all stuck with the whims of the carriers we have physical access too. Here in Florida, they *all suck*, coming from a computer science point of view. You cannot even rally the academics here in Florida, as they are all either stupid, ignorant or both. Calif and Tex. both have far greater Academics that can at least comprehend the state of our deteriorating internet rights. Here is a historical ref: https://powersolution.com/verizon-net-shutting-down-email-avoid-direct-migration-to-gmail/ I get all kinds of timeout errors the last few months with pop3 on Verizon. Since 2017 they have been strongly encouraging migrations to anything but normal email services. They seem determined to shut down pop3 first. https://www.gmass.co/blog/verizon-email-settings/ Besides running my own email servers, dns and other related software, will prevent this sort of behavior and be carrier independent. For now, sure I'm going to use Frontier IP address, on a rented basis. In time, I'.. use IPv6 addresses. Thanks Verizon✔ My Account Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " We I guess I go into overdrive now to get email up. Posting to wider gentoo-user issues might be tuff. I do have this email: dtf...@protonmail.com but it's the limited, free version, atm. Publish or priavte emails on getting those 2 R.Pi.4 boards up and running, asap, gentoo is the first step. NOW this is all a priority, for me.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 1:20 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:06:39 -0400, james wrote: Look at what I just received: From "Dear User Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. Thanks Verizon✔ My Account Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " That looks like a phishing mail to me. OK. How do I verify or ferret out this to know. Thunderbird on gentoo is vulnerable? I've charted my own pathway, via R.P.4 boards and static IP addresses. That way, I can add whatever I want, test, and just run very few codes on those arm8 boards Sure, this has been on my todo list, as I prepare to live/work out of a RV. Eventually, I'll add a satellite link, when all else fails, without large attached files. I'm keeping the home, where the hub/static-IPs will connect, but I can be home or mobile, controlling my own email servers. I've just groan very tired of someone else managing and making decisions on MY email. I've received too many private emails from folks, with the same sentiment. If what I do is well documented, then a plethora of folks can have custom setups, in a well documented fashion. Mine is the hard case with the eventual address of daily mobility, cellular and satellite comms. Migration to R.P.4 has been on my goals list too, for a while. MY goal, via gentoo, is to fix and document this once and for ALL. Your expertise and the rest of the band of Gentoo folks are deeply appreciated in this effort. This action has been brewing for a few years. Email is critical for me, and I do not want vendors dictating its future for me. Enough is Enough. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 1:16 PM, Jack wrote: On 8/20/20 12:54 PM, james wrote: On 8/20/20 10:52 AM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: On Thu, 2020-08-20 at 09:58 -0400, james wrote: Thanks. What are your, or anyone's, suggestion for other mail client software ? Limiting my suggestions to desktop software, since this is still the Gentoo mailing list after all. If your needs are basic, Claws is an outstanding piece of software. If you're more inclined to use a terminal-based application, Mutt or NeoMutt are both popular. Personally I went with Evolution, as my needs (CalDAV, CardDAV, Exchange Web Services) exceed what Claws provides. From what I read, there is much enthusiasm� for Claws/Evolution. Sadly, this direct comparison, seems out of date and does not include TB-78, but it is the most comprehensive comparison I have found. A direct comparison, that is up to date, would be very cool, imho: https://appmus.com/vs/mozilla-thunderbird-vs-evolution and https://www.techradar.com/best/best-email-clients#best-free-email-clients This list is pretty unimpressive.� Most of their "free" offers aren't. Their description of Gmail doesn't even mention free use, that I can see.� Then they include Slack - and the main negative is "no email."� In addition, especially for gmail, it's not really an email "client,"� it's an email service with web interface.� I certainly don't call that an email client.� Am I just too old? No, your not old. You are "wiser" and thanks for participating. Yes, I'm in a bit of panic mode; as I have not run a mail system, since sendmail more than (2) decades ago (Thunderbird, spike and slack). Others ? I've been using Balsa for years.� It was originally a gnome based app, but I use it under KDE/Plasma/openrc.� It can handle mbox, maildir, and several other storage types.� smtp, pop3, and imap. gnupg.� It defaults to showing the plain text version, but can display HTML, with download of images only on request.� The development team is small, but very responsive. I just look at the balsa "screenshots". I do like what I see there, so it is now on the list, thanks for that nomination. What flags for the balsa software do you set? What I initially intend to do is create some extra accounts via a gentoo workstation, and then use them to test a few email codes, just like balsa, and maybe run a different email server on each of the (2) R.Pi.4 systems. Some had mentioned getting a third resolvers set up on a different IP address and I think that is also a good idea. Any suggestions, being remotely based, with a bonded IP address is of interest to me too, so there would be (3) dns primary resolvers. Leaving up the R.Pi.4 boards, should be easy on the power bill, and robust and resilient to attacks and such. I'm not trying to be a pain. But since I've decided to get back into the mail services game, I might as well go "all the way" and robustly support several open-source client software systems, including cell phones. If as an email server, you support smtp, pop3, and imap, what reasonable clients would not work?� You don't mention providing a webmail interface, but depending on your intended users, that may not matter at all. yes I intend to support web based mail systems, after the basic server is installed and the dns primary resolvers are up and basic functionality is working. Here is a list of phone tested with a Android based gentoo stage3 tarball: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Android/Devices just released in july. Project Android of Gentoo Prefix on Android devices by using a precompiled stage3 tarball https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Android/tarball Now I just need to find a simple and straightforward way to install gentoo on the R.Pi.4 servers. From this list: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Embedded_systems/ARM_hardware_list I see (2) choices to follow: Hfern; ARMv8-A Broadcom BCM2711, Cortex-A72 (ARMv8) 64-bit SoC @ 1.5GHz 8GB@LPDDR4 or ARMv8-A Broadcom BCM2711, Cortex-A72 (ARMv8) 64-bit SoC @ 1.5GHz Or another that did not make the list? Any recommendations or more detailed installation docs, so I can get these boards up? I guess I should setup a web page, where the best info from these gentoo-user threads is explicitly listed, scored and implemented for the good of the great gentoo community. Sure, I wish there was someone "smarter" to do this, but I do have the resources and self funding to do it myself. Open source centric and establish via Gentoo. Some folks are sending me information that is sensitive, privately. That is OK, but as much as possible, I want this effort to be refined and publically published, so WE, the gentoo community, light a pathway to keep email centric solutions, open, public and robust. I have little (especially long term) trust that the greater forces intend to keep email et. al. free and open and robustly supported. TIA, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:06:39 -0400, james wrote: > Look at what I just received: > > From > "Dear User > > Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as > you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. > > Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result > in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown > > UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. > > Thanks > Verizon✔ My Account > Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " That looks like a phishing mail to me. -- Neil Bothwick Angular Momentum Makes The World Go 'Round pgpUHQm0sRxnV.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 12:54 PM, james wrote: On 8/20/20 10:52 AM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: On Thu, 2020-08-20 at 09:58 -0400, james wrote: Thanks. What are your, or anyone's, suggestion for other mail client software ? Limiting my suggestions to desktop software, since this is still the Gentoo mailing list after all. If your needs are basic, Claws is an outstanding piece of software. If you're more inclined to use a terminal-based application, Mutt or NeoMutt are both popular. Personally I went with Evolution, as my needs (CalDAV, CardDAV, Exchange Web Services) exceed what Claws provides. From what I read, there is much enthusiasm for Claws/Evolution. Sadly, this direct comparison, seems out of date and does not include TB-78, but it is the most comprehensive comparison I have found. A direct comparison, that is up to date, would be very cool, imho: https://appmus.com/vs/mozilla-thunderbird-vs-evolution and https://www.techradar.com/best/best-email-clients#best-free-email-clients This list is pretty unimpressive. Most of their "free" offers aren't. Their description of Gmail doesn't even mention free use, that I can see. Then they include Slack - and the main negative is "no email." In addition, especially for gmail, it's not really an email "client," it's an email service with web interface. I certainly don't call that an email client. Am I just too old? (Thunderbird, spike and slack). Others ? I've been using Balsa for years. It was originally a gnome based app, but I use it under KDE/Plasma/openrc. It can handle mbox, maildir, and several other storage types. smtp, pop3, and imap. gnupg. It defaults to showing the plain text version, but can display HTML, with download of images only on request. The development team is small, but very responsive. I'm not trying to be a pain. But since I've decided to get back into the mail services game, I might as well go "all the way" and robustly support several open-source client software systems, including cell phones. If as an email server, you support smtp, pop3, and imap, what reasonable clients would not work? You don't mention providing a webmail interface, but depending on your intended users, that may not matter at all. I guess I should setup a web page, where the best info from these gentoo-user threads is explicitly listed, scored and implemented for the good of the great gentoo community. Sure, I wish there was someone "smarter" to do this, but I do have the resources and self funding to do it myself. Open source centric and establish via Gentoo. Some folks are sending me information that is sensitive, privately. That is OK, but as much as possible, I want this effort to be refined and publically published, so WE, the gentoo community, light a pathway to keep email centric solutions, open, public and robust. I have little (especially long term) trust that the greater forces intend to keep email et. al. free and open and robustly supported. TIA, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 1:06 PM, james wrote: On 8/19/20 6:16 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:37:30 -0400, james wrote: It was release mid July: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? https://bugs.gentoo.org/733062 "Mozilla Thunderbird 78.0 is now available. However, we don't plan to bump until 78.2 release because of known problems and upstream's advice not to upgrade yet. Thunderbird 78.2 is scheduled for end of August 2020." It's on my schedule. Thanks. Look at what I just received: From Is that really the admin address for your Verizon email? "Dear User Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown The address and this wording really sound to me much more like phishing than a real notice from Verizon. UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. Is that link really to the Verizon login, or a phishing look-alike? Thanks Verizon✔ My Account Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " We I guess I go into overdrive now to get email up. Posting to wider gentoo-user issues might be tuff. I do have this email: dtf...@protonmail.com but it's the limited, free version, atm. Publish or priavte emails on getting those 2 R.Pi.4 boards up and running, asap, gentoo is the first step. NOW this is all a priority, for me.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/19/20 6:16 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:37:30 -0400, james wrote: It was release mid July: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? https://bugs.gentoo.org/733062 "Mozilla Thunderbird 78.0 is now available. However, we don't plan to bump until 78.2 release because of known problems and upstream's advice not to upgrade yet. Thunderbird 78.2 is scheduled for end of August 2020." It's on my schedule. Thanks. Look at what I just received: From "Dear User Your Verizon✔ Version is outdated and has expired in the database as you know we are moving our Email Platform to AOl Mail. Failure to Upgrade to the newest Verizon✔ AOL Version 12.9 will result in inefficient usage of mailbox and might result to shutdown UPDATE HERE to Visit your login page Log-in to restore. Thanks Verizon✔ My Account Verizon✔ © 2020 All Right reserved " We I guess I go into overdrive now to get email up. Posting to wider gentoo-user issues might be tuff. I do have this email: dtf...@protonmail.com but it's the limited, free version, atm. Publish or priavte emails on getting those 2 R.Pi.4 boards up and running, asap, gentoo is the first step. NOW this is all a priority, for me.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/20/20 10:52 AM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: On Thu, 2020-08-20 at 09:58 -0400, james wrote: Thanks. What are your, or anyone's, suggestion for other mail client software ? Limiting my suggestions to desktop software, since this is still the Gentoo mailing list after all. If your needs are basic, Claws is an outstanding piece of software. If you're more inclined to use a terminal-based application, Mutt or NeoMutt are both popular. Personally I went with Evolution, as my needs (CalDAV, CardDAV, Exchange Web Services) exceed what Claws provides. From what I read, there is much enthusiasm for Claws/Evolution. Sadly, this direct comparison, seems out of date and does not include TB-78, but it is the most comprehensive comparison I have found. A direct comparison, that is up to date, would be very cool, imho: https://appmus.com/vs/mozilla-thunderbird-vs-evolution and https://www.techradar.com/best/best-email-clients#best-free-email-clients (Thunderbird, spike and slack). Others ? I'm not trying to be a pain. But since I've decided to get back into the mail services game, I might as well go "all the way" and robustly support several open-source client software systems, including cell phones. I guess I should setup a web page, where the best info from these gentoo-user threads is explicitly listed, scored and implemented for the good of the great gentoo community. Sure, I wish there was someone "smarter" to do this, but I do have the resources and self funding to do it myself. Open source centric and establish via Gentoo. Some folks are sending me information that is sensitive, privately. That is OK, but as much as possible, I want this effort to be refined and publically published, so WE, the gentoo community, light a pathway to keep email centric solutions, open, public and robust. I have little (especially long term) trust that the greater forces intend to keep email et. al. free and open and robustly supported. TIA, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:52:56 -0500, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: > If your needs are basic, Claws is an outstanding piece of software. > > If you're more inclined to use a terminal-based application, Mutt or > NeoMutt are both popular. > > Personally I went with Evolution, as my needs (CalDAV, CardDAV, > Exchange Web Services) exceed what Claws provides. Claws supports CalDAV, although I don't use it. However, it is more a dedicated mail client that an all-round groupware solution. -- Neil Bothwick ALZHEIMER.COM found . . . Out of . . . something . . pgp873D4cXYMn.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Thu, 2020-08-20 at 09:58 -0400, james wrote: > > Thanks. What are your, or anyone's, suggestion for other mail client > software ? > Limiting my suggestions to desktop software, since this is still the Gentoo mailing list after all. If your needs are basic, Claws is an outstanding piece of software. If you're more inclined to use a terminal-based application, Mutt or NeoMutt are both popular. Personally I went with Evolution, as my needs (CalDAV, CardDAV, Exchange Web Services) exceed what Claws provides.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/19/20 10:01 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: On Wed, 2020-08-19 at 17:52 -0400, james wrote: If you like, elaboration is appreciated. In no particular order: - MailExtensions change would have broken some of the addons I use to fix deficiencies in the feature set - The change to integrated PGP, rather than an addon, means Linux users have to maintain their configuration twice, since T-Bird can no longer use the native gpg setup - Recurring tasks aren't handled properly for CalDAV setups (though this could be an addon's fault, admittedly) - General disillusionment with Mozilla software (debatable and personal) Thanks. What are your, or anyone's, suggestion for other mail client software ? Yes, I do intend to try to robustly support secure access by linux centric cell phones and some mainstream cellphones. There is quite a movement of codes to run on top of cell phones, where the owner is 100% incharge of the codes installed on cell phones. However 5G et. al. does give the carriers excuses not to support those efforts. Here in the US, T-mobile does seem to be leading the charge to let folks control 100% of codes installed or running on the cell phone. That is a deep subject for another thread. THANKS! to all respondents and the info you have provided. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/19/20 6:20 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:37:30 -0400, james wrote: It was release mid July: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? https://bugs.gentoo.org/733062 "Mozilla Thunderbird 78.0 is now available. However, we don't plan to bump until 78.2 release because of known problems and upstream's advice not to upgrade yet. Thunderbird 78.2 is scheduled for end of August 2020." Thanks everyone for responding; thunderbird and all it's functions has served my needs well, for decades. We'll see about TB 78.x. Any suggestions for other software that has such a rich and robust set of features, and other strong points, would be appreciated too. I sure hope that TB tightens up security too. Sadly, I do not have much to hide nor super special information.But at least the pretense of security with one's own mail services, is a step in the right direction from Verizon's terminal email services. I like pop3 but I am open to additional protocols, as long as I can easily revert back to pop3. From some of my previous threads, I'm striving to get (2) R.Pi.4 boards running and secured, with static IPs. So then to build (2) robust systems (gentoo) to run a mail server, my own DNS authenticating (primary) resolvers and robustly support pop3 & imap and the associated software packages. Thunderbird is my choice to enjoy email on the other end of those R.Pi.4 mail services. Other friends no doubt will use other email client, including some that run on W10. TB is what I use currently with verizon's failing email services. I have never used email services on the verizon (stack) controlled Samsung phones, due to the large number un-fixable security problems. Eventually serving up emails to linux stack phones, and other secured cell phones would be great, but not in the initial roll out. Thanks again for the inputs. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Wed, 2020-08-19 at 17:52 -0400, james wrote: > > If you like, elaboration is appreciated. > In no particular order: - MailExtensions change would have broken some of the addons I use to fix deficiencies in the feature set - The change to integrated PGP, rather than an addon, means Linux users have to maintain their configuration twice, since T-Bird can no longer use the native gpg setup - Recurring tasks aren't handled properly for CalDAV setups (though this could be an addon's fault, admittedly) - General disillusionment with Mozilla software (debatable and personal)
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/19/20 2:37 PM, james wrote: > Fellow Thunderbird aficionados: > > > It was release mid July: > > https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ > > > Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? > > > James > There is a mozilla project at gentoo who deal with this package. You could try to ping them if there needs to be any urgency of upgrade. Else I think it might be a few more days/weeks. Also the fact that there is going to be a lot of testing needed before releasing that as an official package for users (there are A LOT of changes)
[gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
Fellow Thunderbird aficionados: It was release mid July: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 14:37:30 -0400, james wrote: > It was release mid July: > > https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/07/whats-new-in-thunderbird-78/ > > > Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? https://bugs.gentoo.org/733062 "Mozilla Thunderbird 78.0 is now available. However, we don't plan to bump until 78.2 release because of known problems and upstream's advice not to upgrade yet. Thunderbird 78.2 is scheduled for end of August 2020." -- Neil Bothwick *Libra*: /(Sept 23--Oct 23)/ An unfortunate typo on your application results in your being accepted into the Legion Of Superherpes. pgpn5UiWNo49P.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On 8/19/20 4:22 PM, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote: On Wed, 2020-08-19 at 15:41 -0400, Aisha Tammy wrote: (there are A LOT of changes) At the risk of derailing the thread, I moved to using Evolution because of the T-Bird v78 changes. If you like, elaboration is appreciated. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Wed, 2020-08-19 at 15:41 -0400, Aisha Tammy wrote: > (there are A LOT of changes) At the risk of derailing the thread, I moved to using Evolution because of the T-Bird v78 changes.
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 78
On Wed, 2020-08-19 at 14:37 -0400, james wrote: > > Any idea where the first 'beta' version can be grabbed, as an ebuild? > Doesn't seem to be one available, yet. https://gpo.zugaina.org/mail-client/thunderbird
