Re: [gentoo-user] Basic queries regarding installation from an outsider looking in
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:02:50 +0100, AG wrote: (1) Looking through the background docs, it occurs to me that if I wanted to install Gentoo on my system, I would need access to a second machine that is running all of the on-line docs that guide one through the installation process. Is this correct? If not, how does one refer to the (seemingly quite comprehensive) guidelines whilst in the middle of an installation? Look at the alternate install docs. Although these relate to using a live CD like Knoppix, you can also use an already installed system for this. So you can install Gentoo from a chroot in your existing Debian system (you will may a live CD to repartition). That way you can not only read the docs, you can read your email, browse the web or play games while the installation proceeds. (2) When Gentoo installs its libraries, does this duplicate the libraries already on my machine? For instance - if I have OOo and KDE and Xfce4 loaded as part of my Debian Squeeze system, will Gentoo also install its own version of OOo, KDE and Xfce4 alongside the Deb files? I was thinking that this would have a number of implications in terms of space and (potentially) in how the drive is partitioned for the Gentoo installation ... unless I'm missing the point? Your Gentoo and Debian systems would, and should, be totally separate, apart from shared user data. (3) What differences would I likely experience between running my Debian installation and the Gentoo installation? After all, up to a certain point GNU/Linux is GNU/Linux, and if I configured all the bells and whistles the same way as I have currently got them set up (i.e. preferred WM, desktop settings, applications, email and Net preferences, etc.), I'm not sure there would be any ostensible distinction between the two. From a user perspective, you are right, Linux is Linux and different distros tend to be different ways of arriving at a similar point. The main difference is in the system administration. Any installation commitment will have to wait for a couple of weeks yet though: I'm in the process of completing my MSc thesis and need to keep a stable environment for the time being, so will look at taking this on in a few weeks. This is thus background research - a bit of a reconnaissance mission, so to speak. Any thoughts/ shared experiences would be welcome ... unless there is another, more appropriate forum for these kinds of experiences to be shared/ discussed. Installing from within your existing system means you can fit the Gentoo installation process in around your other computer usage. -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 018: Unrecoverable error - System has been destroyed. Buy a new one. Old Windows licence is not valid anymore. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Basic queries regarding installation from an outsider looking in
On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:02:50 AG wrote: Hi all Thanks for the responses to my earlier query regarding co-location of Debian and Gentoo on the same HDD. I still have a few questions regarding an installation before I take the plunge: (1) Looking through the background docs, it occurs to me that if I wanted to install Gentoo on my system, I would need access to a second machine that is running all of the on-line docs that guide one through the installation process. Is this correct? If not, how does one refer to the (seemingly quite comprehensive) guidelines whilst in the middle of an installation? With links or link2 or lynx - it's on the stage 3. Get network up and running, view docs in text mode (2) When Gentoo installs its libraries, does this duplicate the libraries already on my machine? For instance - if I have OOo and KDE and Xfce4 loaded as part of my Debian Squeeze system, will Gentoo also install its own version of OOo, KDE and Xfce4 alongside the Deb files? I was thinking that this would have a number of implications in terms of space and (potentially) in how the drive is partitioned for the Gentoo installation ... unless I'm missing the point? Yes. You have two complete operating systems, and they share very little, if anything. Don't try and be tempted to share binaries - that way does madness lie. (3) What differences would I likely experience between running my Debian installation and the Gentoo installation? That's not a question that anyone except you can answer - it's like asking me what different experience will you have between your ex-wife and current girlfriend. I have no idea, nor any way to find out. They will be different, that much is true. Gentoo will work the way you set it up, I can't even warn you about sudo instead of su a la Ubuntu as Gentoo let's you do it either way. If you use Gnome, you will get Gnome's default theme (a blue one?) instead of say Ubuntu's Human theme. Changing that is a simple emerge and a few mouse clicks. What you will do is spend an insane amount of time trying to figure out what a certain USE flag actually does an if you want it. Debian doesn't give you that choice. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Basic queries regarding installation from an outsider looking in
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:02:50 AG wrote: Hi all Thanks for the responses to my earlier query regarding co-location of Debian and Gentoo on the same HDD. I still have a few questions regarding an installation before I take the plunge: (1) Looking through the background docs, it occurs to me that if I wanted to install Gentoo on my system, I would need access to a second machine that is running all of the on-line docs that guide one through the installation process. Is this correct? If not, how does one refer to the (seemingly quite comprehensive) guidelines whilst in the middle of an installation? With links or link2 or lynx - it's on the stage 3. Get network up and running, view docs in text mode It looks like an installation in a chroot space on my current machine will be the way I'll go on this one. If I can find the parts, I might even go so far as patching together an older box and dedicating it to the great take-on Gentoo project! In which case, this would be an interesting route to pursue. But, for now, I'm likely to go the chroot way. (2) When Gentoo installs its libraries, does this duplicate the libraries already on my machine? For instance - if I have OOo and KDE and Xfce4 loaded as part of my Debian Squeeze system, will Gentoo also install its own version of OOo, KDE and Xfce4 alongside the Deb files? I was thinking that this would have a number of implications in terms of space and (potentially) in how the drive is partitioned for the Gentoo installation ... unless I'm missing the point? Yes. You have two complete operating systems, and they share very little, if anything. Don't try and be tempted to share binaries - that way does madness lie. Thanks for the heads' up! I'm beginning to get a clearer picture of how this would actually work now. (3) What differences would I likely experience between running my Debian installation and the Gentoo installation? That's not a question that anyone except you can answer - it's like asking me what different experience will you have between your ex-wife and current girlfriend. I have no idea, nor any way to find out. Interesting analogy, but your point is taken. It was a bit of an unfair question really. They will be different, that much is true. Gentoo will work the way you set it up, I can't even warn you about sudo instead of su a la Ubuntu as Gentoo let's you do it either way. If you use Gnome, you will get Gnome's default theme (a blue one?) instead of say Ubuntu's Human theme. Changing that is a simple emerge and a few mouse clicks. I don't know *buntu. I'm on Squeeze (testing) and am having a good time with it. After Slackware's rock-climbing experience of system maintenance, I feel quite spoilt having a tool like apt at my fingertips. Debian does have some interesting policy implementations with renaming Firefox, etc., but these are minor and aside from my inclination to call apps by their given name there is no inconvenience. What you will do is spend an insane amount of time trying to figure out what a certain USE flag actually does an if you want it. Debian doesn't give you that choice. Is this an example of that infinite adaptability of Gentoo as a metadistro? Thanks.
Re: [gentoo-user] Basic queries regarding installation from an outsider looking in
On Sunday 14 June 2009 15:24:24 AG wrote: What you will do is spend an insane amount of time trying to figure out what a certain USE flag actually does an if you want it. Debian doesn't give you that choice. Is this an example of that infinite adaptability of Gentoo as a metadistro? Yes. In fact, this is Gentoo's major strength - the ability to have a customized installation that does exactly what you want with no additional junk, an do it in an automated sane fashion that can be maintained. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Basic queries regarding installation from an outsider looking in
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:06:04 +0100, AG wrote: Look at the alternate install docs. Although these relate to using a live CD like Knoppix, you can also use an already installed system for this. So you can install Gentoo from a chroot in your existing Debian system (you will may a live CD to repartition). That way you can not only read the docs, you can read your email, browse the web or play games while the installation proceeds. Hmm ... it looks like I need to beef up my chroot know-how. My /home partition is large enough to partition a dedicated area without problems I'd imagine. That sounds a reasonably painless way forward, but not for now. I think you nay mis-understand the standard install process. it's done in a chroot anyway. The only difference is that the system from which you enter the chroot is your existing distro and not a live CD. That's exactly how I installed Gentoo on this computer. -- Neil Bothwick There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants; and the other is getting it. - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
