Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[Andrew Savchenko]

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 14:41:48 + (UTC) Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 06:57:36 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2015-09-15, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> >> > In most X11 apps I can select some text and then paste it somewhere
> >> > else with a middle-click, or dump it to stdout with the command 'xclip
> >> > -o'.  That doesn't work for highligted text in gtk-3 apps (meld,
> >> > evince, audacious, etc.).  After selecting text in a gtk-3 app, if I
> >> > middle-click in a terminal window it does nothing and 'xclip -o' just
> >> > hangs.  Selecting text elsewhere will deselect the text in the gtk-3
> >> > app, so gtk-3 isn't _completely_ ignoring X11 clipboards/buffers.
> >> > 
> >> > Any ideas why gtk-3 copy/paste is broken and how to fix it?
> >> 
> >> Ah, it turns out it's only a problem if you have multiple screens: you
> >> can only paste a gtk-3 selection if the destination is on the same X11
> >> screen as the source.  I'm pretty sure this is a known problem, but
> >> I'm having trouble finding it again in the Gnome bugtracker...
> >
> > Must be related to gtk-3 then.
> >
> > I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like you 
> > describe.
> 
> And you can select/paste from one screen to another where the source
> is a gtk-3 app?
> 
> I should clarify that I mean "screen" in the strict X11 usage.  Using
> Xinerama or the like to spread a single desktop across multiple
> monitors is still a single screen setup.  I'm trying to select text on
> DISPLAY=:0.0 and paste it on DISPLAY=:0.1

Just for the record: I have the same problem with multihead setup
(:0.0 and :0.1). While selecting with mouse doesn't work. Using
menu functions "copy" in one application and "paste" in another one
works fine. IIRC there are actually two buffers in X: for mouse
selection and for copy-and-paste (both via menu and
keyboard shortcuts).

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[Andrew Savchenko]

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:22:00 +0200 Alan McKinnon wrote:
[...]
> >> That is a single X11 screen spread across two physical monitors.  It
> >> will not exhibit the gtk-3 selection bug.
> >>
> >> Are you sure you have two desktops and it's not just a single desktop
> >> that is spread across two monitors?  Can you drag a window from one
> >> monitor to the other?  If you can, then it's a single desktop.
> > 
> > Yes, I can.
> > When I maximize a window, it's only on 1 screen.
> > 
> > This is how it seems "right" to me.
> > 
> > Why would I want it to be different? Eg. windows can't be moved between 
> > screens? I don't see the point of having more than 1 screen in that case.
> 
> There's a few reasons you might want more than one screen. Primary one
> is two heads and two video cards with different resolutions and dpi.
> Xinerama and big desktop et al will use the lower setting for both.

Another reason (e.g. my case) is one dual head video card, but
monitors with different dpi and colorspace. I tried xinerama: it
looks really ugly on such setup.

One more reason already mentioned by Grant is true for my case too:
in my window manager (e16) I can have independent desktops on each
screen, but not in xinerama mode. Probably this can be fixed in
software, but might require a lot of work. JFYI dwm allows
independent work on xinerama screens, but I have another issues
with dwm.
 
Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[Alan McKinnon]

On 18/09/2015 16:11, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Friday 18 September 2015 13:23:49 Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2015-09-18, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>>> On Thu, September 17, 2015 16:33, Grant Edwards wrote:
 On 2015-09-17, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2015-09-17, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
 I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like you
 describe.
>>>
>>> And you can select/paste from one screen to another where the source
>>> is a gtk-3 app?
>>
>> Not sure, need to test with a gtk-3 app.
>>
>> I run KDE myself.
>>
>>> I should clarify that I mean "screen" in the strict X11 usage.  Using
>>> Xinerama or the like to spread a single desktop across multiple
>>> monitors is still a single screen setup.  I'm trying to select text
>>> on DISPLAY=:0.0 and paste it on DISPLAY=:0.1
>>
>> Not using my desktop atm.
>> What does Xorg do by default when it detects multiple screens?
>
> Not sure -- I'll have to give it a try. IIRC, it just uses the first
> one.

 At least on my machine, if I start up X11 without a configuration
 file it only uses one of my three monitors.  That behavior may depend
 on which boards are installed and which board/driver is found first.
>>>
>>> On my desktop:
>>>
>>> $ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
>>> Section "Device"
>>>
>>> Identifier  "Card0"
>>> Driver  "nvidia"
>>> BusID   "PCI:2:0:0"
>>>
>>> EndSection
>>>
>>> (Without this, X doesn't start, complaining it can't find VESA)
>>>
>>> echo $DISPLAY returns the same on both desktops.
>>
>> That is a single X11 screen spread across two physical monitors.  It
>> will not exhibit the gtk-3 selection bug.
>>
>> Are you sure you have two desktops and it's not just a single desktop
>> that is spread across two monitors?  Can you drag a window from one
>> monitor to the other?  If you can, then it's a single desktop.
> 
> Yes, I can.
> When I maximize a window, it's only on 1 screen.
> 
> This is how it seems "right" to me.
> 
> Why would I want it to be different? Eg. windows can't be moved between 
> screens? I don't see the point of having more than 1 screen in that case.

There's a few reasons you might want more than one screen. Primary one
is two heads and two video cards with different resolutions and dpi.
Xinerama and big desktop et al will use the lower setting for both.

Some folk have 2 screens just because they've always done it that way
for years and don't want to change

These days the usual case is one video card with more than one output so
you connect identical monitors to each. For that, one big desktop makes
sense.


> 
> --
> Joost
> 
> 


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday 18 September 2015 16:22:00 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 18/09/2015 16:11, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Friday 18 September 2015 13:23:49 Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2015-09-18, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> >>> On Thu, September 17, 2015 16:33, Grant Edwards wrote:
>  On 2015-09-17, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> > On 2015-09-17, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>  I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like
>  you
>  describe.
> >>> 
> >>> And you can select/paste from one screen to another where the source
> >>> is a gtk-3 app?
> >> 
> >> Not sure, need to test with a gtk-3 app.
> >> 
> >> I run KDE myself.
> >> 
> >>> I should clarify that I mean "screen" in the strict X11 usage. 
> >>> Using
> >>> Xinerama or the like to spread a single desktop across multiple
> >>> monitors is still a single screen setup.  I'm trying to select text
> >>> on DISPLAY=:0.0 and paste it on DISPLAY=:0.1
> >> 
> >> Not using my desktop atm.
> >> What does Xorg do by default when it detects multiple screens?
> > 
> > Not sure -- I'll have to give it a try. IIRC, it just uses the first
> > one.
>  
>  At least on my machine, if I start up X11 without a configuration
>  file it only uses one of my three monitors.  That behavior may depend
>  on which boards are installed and which board/driver is found first.
> >>> 
> >>> On my desktop:
> >>> 
> >>> $ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> >>> Section "Device"
> >>> 
> >>> Identifier  "Card0"
> >>> Driver  "nvidia"
> >>> BusID   "PCI:2:0:0"
> >>> 
> >>> EndSection
> >>> 
> >>> (Without this, X doesn't start, complaining it can't find VESA)
> >>> 
> >>> echo $DISPLAY returns the same on both desktops.
> >> 
> >> That is a single X11 screen spread across two physical monitors.  It
> >> will not exhibit the gtk-3 selection bug.
> >> 
> >> Are you sure you have two desktops and it's not just a single desktop
> >> that is spread across two monitors?  Can you drag a window from one
> >> monitor to the other?  If you can, then it's a single desktop.
> > 
> > Yes, I can.
> > When I maximize a window, it's only on 1 screen.
> > 
> > This is how it seems "right" to me.
> > 
> > Why would I want it to be different? Eg. windows can't be moved between
> > screens? I don't see the point of having more than 1 screen in that case.
> 
> There's a few reasons you might want more than one screen. Primary one
> is two heads and two video cards with different resolutions and dpi.
> Xinerama and big desktop et al will use the lower setting for both.

Actually, this desktop has xinerama enabled in USE-flags. IOW, I'm assuming I 
am using Xinerama on here.
I can change the resolution of either screen and it all still works. (apart 
from the weird look of windows on the other screen)

> Some folk have 2 screens just because they've always done it that way
> for years and don't want to change
> 
> These days the usual case is one video card with more than one output so
> you connect identical monitors to each. For that, one big desktop makes
> sense.

Same with laptops, all laptops I've used in the past 5 years all had the 
option to add a 2nd display and use that. Even with differing resolutions, it 
works the same way.
Plug it in, change the setting if necessary (kdesettings does a good job with 
that) and I have 2 screens where i can move windows back and forth.
It's great for presentations. Can open a text-file with the passwords on the 
laptop screen and copy/paste them from there onto the big screen everyone else 
sees.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday 18 September 2015 13:23:49 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-18, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> > On Thu, September 17, 2015 16:33, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2015-09-17, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> >>> On 2015-09-17, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> >> I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like you
> >> describe.
> > 
> > And you can select/paste from one screen to another where the source
> > is a gtk-3 app?
>  
>  Not sure, need to test with a gtk-3 app.
>  
>  I run KDE myself.
>  
> > I should clarify that I mean "screen" in the strict X11 usage.  Using
> > Xinerama or the like to spread a single desktop across multiple
> > monitors is still a single screen setup.  I'm trying to select text
> > on DISPLAY=:0.0 and paste it on DISPLAY=:0.1
>  
>  Not using my desktop atm.
>  What does Xorg do by default when it detects multiple screens?
> >>> 
> >>> Not sure -- I'll have to give it a try. IIRC, it just uses the first
> >>> one.
> >> 
> >> At least on my machine, if I start up X11 without a configuration
> >> file it only uses one of my three monitors.  That behavior may depend
> >> on which boards are installed and which board/driver is found first.
> > 
> > On my desktop:
> > 
> > $ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> > Section "Device"
> > 
> > Identifier  "Card0"
> > Driver  "nvidia"
> > BusID   "PCI:2:0:0"
> > 
> > EndSection
> > 
> > (Without this, X doesn't start, complaining it can't find VESA)
> > 
> > echo $DISPLAY returns the same on both desktops.
> 
> That is a single X11 screen spread across two physical monitors.  It
> will not exhibit the gtk-3 selection bug.
> 
> Are you sure you have two desktops and it's not just a single desktop
> that is spread across two monitors?  Can you drag a window from one
> monitor to the other?  If you can, then it's a single desktop.

Yes, I can.
When I maximize a window, it's only on 1 screen.

This is how it seems "right" to me.

Why would I want it to be different? Eg. windows can't be moved between 
screens? I don't see the point of having more than 1 screen in that case.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday 18 September 2015 14:34:26 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-18, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> >>> echo $DISPLAY returns the same on both desktops.
> >> 
> >> That is a single X11 screen spread across two physical monitors.  It
> >> will not exhibit the gtk-3 selection bug.
> >> 
> >> Are you sure you have two desktops and it's not just a single desktop
> >> that is spread across two monitors?  Can you drag a window from one
> >> monitor to the other?  If you can, then it's a single desktop.
> > 
> > Yes, I can.
> > When I maximize a window, it's only on 1 screen.
> > 
> > This is how it seems "right" to me.
> 
> Then by all means continue to use it that way.  That's how most people
> seem to like it.
> 
> > Why would I want it to be different?  Eg. windows can't be moved
> > between screens? I don't see the point of having more than 1 screen
> > in that case.
> 
> I like having separate screens because the window manager I use
> (xfwm4) supports multiple virtual workspaces for each screen (4 per
> screen by default).  I find it very useful to be able to flip one
> screen to a different workspace while leaving the others unaffected.
> That allows me, for example, to leave email and web-browser up on one
> screen while switching the other two back and forth between multiple
> tasks/projects. (I am rarely allowed to work uninterrupted for long
> periods on a single task.)
> 
> Not being able to move windows between screens is an inconvenience,
> but for me it's well worth it to get independently switchable virtual
> workspaces on each screen.

To "simulate" that, I occasionally set a window to be on all virtual 
workspaces.
Does that only work when you have the displays seperate like you do? As that 
would be convenient and is something I actually miss.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday 18 September 2015 14:44:20 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-18, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> >> There's a few reasons you might want more than one screen. Primary one
> >> is two heads and two video cards with different resolutions and dpi.
> >> Xinerama and big desktop et al will use the lower setting for both.
> > 
> > Actually, this desktop has xinerama enabled in USE-flags. IOW, I'm
> > assuming I am using Xinerama on here. I can change the resolution of
> > either screen and it all still works. (apart from the weird look of
> > windows on the other screen)
> 
> But can you set DPI independenty for the two monitors?  I'm guessing
> not, since you mention the "weird look of windows" -- that's probably
> due to use of the wrong DPI on one of the monitors.  With multiple
> screens, you _can_ set DPI correctly for two different monitors.
> 
> >> Some folk have 2 screens just because they've always done it that way
> >> for years and don't want to change
> >> 
> >> These days the usual case is one video card with more than one output
> >> so you connect identical monitors to each. For that, one big desktop
> >> makes sense.
> > 
> > Same with laptops, all laptops I've used in the past 5 years all had
> > the option to add a 2nd display and use that. Even with differing
> > resolutions, it works the same way. Plug it in, change the setting if
> > necessary (kdesettings does a good job with that) and I have 2
> > screens where i can move windows back and forth. It's great for
> > presentations. Can open a text-file with the passwords on the laptop
> > screen and copy/paste them from there onto the big screen everyone
> > else sees.
> 
> Except for the "moving windows back and forth" it works the same with
> dual screens except you can properly set DPI for both of them.

Not with the kdesettings.
I tend to always use the native resolution of the screens.

> There is one other disadvantage of having multiple screens that I
> forgot to mention.  Apart from the gtk-3 selection brokenness, there
> are some buggy X apps which just plain refuse to run on multiple
> screens simultaneously (Firefix is one).  They were apparently written
> by MS-Windows programmers based on the assumption that a computer is
> always used by exactly one person to run exactly one program on
> exactly on screen.  Most other X apps are properly written and support
> multiple screens just fine.

I'll test without "xinerama" in the near future and let you know.
(requires a rebuild of a lot of stuff...)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 02:41:48 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-16, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 06:57:36 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2015-09-15, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> >> > In most X11 apps I can select some text and then paste it somewhere
> >> > else with a middle-click, or dump it to stdout with the command 'xclip
> >> > -o'.  That doesn't work for highligted text in gtk-3 apps (meld,
> >> > evince, audacious, etc.).  After selecting text in a gtk-3 app, if I
> >> > middle-click in a terminal window it does nothing and 'xclip -o' just
> >> > hangs.  Selecting text elsewhere will deselect the text in the gtk-3
> >> > app, so gtk-3 isn't _completely_ ignoring X11 clipboards/buffers.
> >> > 
> >> > Any ideas why gtk-3 copy/paste is broken and how to fix it?
> >> 
> >> Ah, it turns out it's only a problem if you have multiple screens: you
> >> can only paste a gtk-3 selection if the destination is on the same X11
> >> screen as the source.  I'm pretty sure this is a known problem, but
> >> I'm having trouble finding it again in the Gnome bugtracker...
> > 
> > Must be related to gtk-3 then.
> > 
> > I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like you
> > describe.
> 
> And you can select/paste from one screen to another where the source
> is a gtk-3 app?

Not sure, need to test with a gtk-3 app.
I run KDE myself.

> I should clarify that I mean "screen" in the strict X11 usage.  Using
> Xinerama or the like to spread a single desktop across multiple
> monitors is still a single screen setup.  I'm trying to select text on
> DISPLAY=:0.0 and paste it on DISPLAY=:0.1

Not using my desktop atm.
What does Xorg do by default when it detects multiple screens?

> > Am surprised it would respond differently between GTK-3 and non-GTK-3
> > apps.
> 
> I'm not.  When somebody selects something, you've got to make onr or
> more Xlib function calls to grab control of the selection, and if
> you're naive and think that the screen where your program is running
> is the only one, then you only make the call to grab control of the
> selection for that screen. Apparently the gtk-3 developers never
> thought about the possibility that there are mutliple screens in an
> X11 session.

Bad design then, as systems with multiple screens have been around for years.

> > I don't configure anything special for multiple screens in the past
> > few years.
> 
> Are you really using multiple screens?  Or a single screen spread
> across mutliple monitors?  If you start an xterm on every monitor and
> do "echo $DISPLAY" in each one, do you get different results or are
> they all the same?

As I said, what's the default with Xorg?

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thu, September 17, 2015 16:33, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-17, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>> On 2015-09-17, J. Roeleveld  wrote:
>>
> I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like you
> describe.

 And you can select/paste from one screen to another where the source
 is a gtk-3 app?
>>>
>>> Not sure, need to test with a gtk-3 app.
>>>
>>> I run KDE myself.
>>
 I should clarify that I mean "screen" in the strict X11 usage.  Using
 Xinerama or the like to spread a single desktop across multiple
 monitors is still a single screen setup.  I'm trying to select text
 on DISPLAY=:0.0 and paste it on DISPLAY=:0.1
>>>
>>> Not using my desktop atm.
>>> What does Xorg do by default when it detects multiple screens?
>>
>> Not sure -- I'll have to give it a try. IIRC, it just uses the first
>> one.
>
> At least on my machine, if I start up X11 without a configuration file
> it only uses one of my three monitors.  That behavior may depend on
> which boards are installed and which board/driver is found first.

On my desktop:

$ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Section "Device"
Identifier  "Card0"
Driver  "nvidia"
BusID   "PCI:2:0:0"
EndSection

(Without this, X doesn't start, complaining it can't find VESA)

echo $DISPLAY returns the same on both desktops.

Please note: This desktop was installed years ago and simply kept
up-to-date for the most part. But it does have the "xinerama" USE-flag set
globally.

I remember reading something about it, but not sure if this is the "new"
or "old" way of doing it. I need to check how my laptop handles it later
today/this weekend.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Can't paste from selection in gtk-3 apps

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 06:57:36 PM Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-09-15, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> > In most X11 apps I can select some text and then paste it somewhere
> > else with a middle-click, or dump it to stdout with the command 'xclip
> > -o'.  That doesn't work for highligted text in gtk-3 apps (meld,
> > evince, audacious, etc.).  After selecting text in a gtk-3 app, if I
> > middle-click in a terminal window it does nothing and 'xclip -o' just
> > hangs.  Selecting text elsewhere will deselect the text in the gtk-3
> > app, so gtk-3 isn't _completely_ ignoring X11 clipboards/buffers.
> > 
> > Any ideas why gtk-3 copy/paste is broken and how to fix it?
> 
> Ah, it turns out it's only a problem if you have multiple screens: you
> can only paste a gtk-3 selection if the destination is on the same X11
> screen as the source.  I'm pretty sure this is a known problem, but
> I'm having trouble finding it again in the Gnome bugtracker...

Must be related to gtk-3 then.
I use 2 screens extensively and never experienced any issues like you 
describe.

Am surprised it would respond differently between GTK-3 and non-GTK-3 apps.

I don't configure anything special for multiple screens in the past few years.

--
Joost