Re: [gentoo-user] What is recommended behavior for complete updating of an old system ?
Hi Assembling a guide of recommended update usage seems like a good idea. Unfortunately I don't have much time (or much knowledge) on the matter, and submitting the cluster setup as docs and ebuild has higher priority (which doesn't mean I have much time for that either). Do you know if there is a working pipline for "newbie started" docs or ebuilds, where more experienced people can make a sanity check and much needed corrections before it gets submitted to the rest of the world (including other clueless newbies who would not recognize the author's madness)? Jimmy BTW thanks for the info Bob, helps a lot. I got the use flags in order, and after the last --newuse update even revdep-rebuild stopped complaining. On Monday 14 November 2005 05.36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > If ever there was a frequently asked question, it's this, or the > general > > family of "what's the best way to do an update in this situation?", like: > >> What is a recommended way to update an old system to minimize > >> the amount of broken ebuilds? > > > > What's the best way to do an update of an old machine that > > takes a long time to compile, or an embedded system? > > What's the best way to keep a machine completely up-to-date > with the very latest, stability be damned?? > > What's the best way to keep a machine reasonably up-to-date, > while keeping the machine stable and running? > > I couldn't find any of these in a FAQ on the gentoo website. > Perhaps it's there and I missed it. But if indeed this FAQ lacks an > answer, can we compose one from this discussion? > > Michael > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Bob Sanders wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:46:41 +0100 > > > > Jimmy Rosen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Primary: > >> What is a recommended way to update an old system to minimize > >> the amount of broken ebuilds? > >> Is emerge --emptytree world a good idea? Is it better than a > >> clean install? Or is the documentation's way good enough even > >> for a very old system: > >> emerge --update --deep --newuse world > >> emerge --depclean > >> revdep-rebuild > > > > For an old machine that takes a long time to compile, or an > > embedded system - > > > > emerge sync once per week and let it run over the weekend doing > > updates. > > > > About once per year - > > - emerge sync > > - ufed and check out the USE flags. Some changes occur and > > they need a bit of cleaning. > > - emerge -eav system (no need to d world.) > > - emerge -uDNav world > > - python-updater > > - perl-cleaner all > > - revdep-rebuild > > > >> I have an unexplainable fobia against --depclean though. > > > > Then don't. All you care about is the programs you currently > > use, those others just sit there taking some space. If you're > > not obsessive about a little disk space, why wipe them off the > > disk? > > > >> And updating > >> everything at once seems a bit reckless, I mean with the age of > >> the system it would update almost everything. The package list > >> was a mile long, and you never know what will break. > > > > That's why you should keep on a regular update schedule. A lot > > of programs get fixed, USE flags change, dependencies change, > > configuration options get updated. > > > >> Secondary: > >> How often should one update the system to minimize hassles with > >> broken packages? > > > > Me? I do most of my working systems daily - takes about 10 > > minutes for all 4 systems. Home systems - daily or weekly. > > Laptop monthly. Better to see a small problem show up than wait > > for it to be buried in a lot of updates and then have to find out > > which of 10 or 20 packages caused the issue. > > > >> Too often, and the hassle of constant upgrading can get tedious > >> even if it works ok, and too late, and some odd dysfunctional > >> version combinations start showing up that the packages were not > >> really tested for, leading to broken ebuilds. > > > > Have you run other distributions where you get the massive binary > > updates 3 times per year? Have you had to fun of doing minor > > package updates in between the massive updates and then find > > that the massive update leaves your system completely borked > > because of conflicts with the minor updates? And I mean you > > don't see these until the system tries to reboot, and then it > > sometimes won't do that. > > > >> I did like this: > >> I didn't want to run a clean install or an --emptytree thingie. > >> I wanted to take it a few steps at a time, so that if something > >> broke I might have an idea about what new packages it was that > >> broke it. > >> > >> 1) take a backup of the system. I have some modifications > >> in /etc/init.d scripts and some extra non-gentoo stuff for > >> clustering installed that I didn't want to risk, and I was > >> pretty sure something would bork and leave
Re: [gentoo-user] What is recommended behavior for complete updating of an old system ?
If ever there was a frequently asked question, it's this, or the general family of "what's the best way to do an update in this situation?", like: >> What is a recommended way to update an old system to minimize >> the amount of broken ebuilds? > What's the best way to do an update of an old machine that > takes a long time to compile, or an embedded system? What's the best way to keep a machine completely up-to-date with the very latest, stability be damned?? What's the best way to keep a machine reasonably up-to-date, while keeping the machine stable and running? I couldn't find any of these in a FAQ on the gentoo website. Perhaps it's there and I missed it. But if indeed this FAQ lacks an answer, can we compose one from this discussion? Michael On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Bob Sanders wrote: On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:46:41 +0100 Jimmy Rosen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Primary: What is a recommended way to update an old system to minimize the amount of broken ebuilds? Is emerge --emptytree world a good idea? Is it better than a clean install? Or is the documentation's way good enough even for a very old system: emerge --update --deep --newuse world emerge --depclean revdep-rebuild For an old machine that takes a long time to compile, or an embedded system - emerge sync once per week and let it run over the weekend doing updates. About once per year - - emerge sync - ufed and check out the USE flags. Some changes occur and they need a bit of cleaning. - emerge -eav system (no need to d world.) - emerge -uDNav world - python-updater - perl-cleaner all - revdep-rebuild I have an unexplainable fobia against --depclean though. Then don't. All you care about is the programs you currently use, those others just sit there taking some space. If you're not obsessive about a little disk space, why wipe them off the disk? And updating everything at once seems a bit reckless, I mean with the age of the system it would update almost everything. The package list was a mile long, and you never know what will break. That's why you should keep on a regular update schedule. A lot of programs get fixed, USE flags change, dependencies change, configuration options get updated. Secondary: How often should one update the system to minimize hassles with broken packages? Me? I do most of my working systems daily - takes about 10 minutes for all 4 systems. Home systems - daily or weekly. Laptop monthly. Better to see a small problem show up than wait for it to be buried in a lot of updates and then have to find out which of 10 or 20 packages caused the issue. Too often, and the hassle of constant upgrading can get tedious even if it works ok, and too late, and some odd dysfunctional version combinations start showing up that the packages were not really tested for, leading to broken ebuilds. Have you run other distributions where you get the massive binary updates 3 times per year? Have you had to fun of doing minor package updates in between the massive updates and then find that the massive update leaves your system completely borked because of conflicts with the minor updates? And I mean you don't see these until the system tries to reboot, and then it sometimes won't do that. I did like this: I didn't want to run a clean install or an --emptytree thingie. I wanted to take it a few steps at a time, so that if something broke I might have an idea about what new packages it was that broke it. 1) take a backup of the system. I have some modifications in /etc/init.d scripts and some extra non-gentoo stuff for clustering installed that I didn't want to risk, and I was pretty sure something would bork and leave me clueless. lol 2) emerge sync. Nice, worked. emerge *only the most important stuff* (oh, I'm really chicken btw): portage, baselayout, etc. That brought in some dependencies, but it worked out all right after a while and a lot of figuring out the /etc/init.d and config file changes that has happened for the last 1.5 years. And some other changes as to where certain configs go, and how, and so on. But most was easily searchable in docs or forums.gentoo or on this list. Reboot here to see if it even booted any more... YEEAAAH! 3) emerge basic user packages like gcc, glibc, xorg (yes I was still on xfree) kernel, etc. note: I have to stay on 2.4 because I use openmosix for the clustering, and I don't yet trust 2.6om. For this I started using --update --deep since I did want an updated system, but not all at once. This still worked out all right, with just some minor headaches of broken ebuilds. And some config files again. hrmmpf kernel change means reboot. darned. 4) emerge --update --deep desktop stuff like KDE, openoffice,
Re: [gentoo-user] What is recommended behavior for complete updating of an old system ?
On Saturday 12 Nov 2005 8:52 am, Bob Sanders wrote: > emerge sync once per week and let it run over the weekend doing updates. > > About once per year - > - emerge sync > - ufed and check out the USE flags. Some changes occur and > they need a > bit of cleaning. > - emerge -eav system (no need to d world.) > - emerge -uDNav world > - python-updater > - perl-cleaner all > - revdep-rebuild Even though I am not facing problems like the original thread starter but I have always thought that what would I do a year down the lane when stuff like gcc/glibc (and other important things) are upgraded in major ways. These commands will help :-) Thanks from my side. Abhay pgprP5cCIDtOA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] What is recommended behavior for complete updating of an old system ?
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:46:41 +0100 Jimmy Rosen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Primary: > What is a recommended way to update an old system to minimize the > amount of broken ebuilds? > Is emerge --emptytree world a good idea? Is it better than a clean > install? Or is the documentation's way good enough even for a very old > system: > emerge --update --deep --newuse world > emerge --depclean > revdep-rebuild For an old machine that takes a long time to compile, or an embedded system - emerge sync once per week and let it run over the weekend doing updates. About once per year - - emerge sync - ufed and check out the USE flags. Some changes occur and they need a bit of cleaning. - emerge -eav system (no need to d world.) - emerge -uDNav world - python-updater - perl-cleaner all - revdep-rebuild > I have an unexplainable fobia against --depclean though. Then don't. All you care about is the programs you currently use, those others just sit there taking some space. If you're not obsessive about a little disk space, why wipe them off the disk? > And updating > everything at once seems a bit reckless, I mean with the age of the > system it would update almost everything. The package list was a mile > long, and you never know what will break. > That's why you should keep on a regular update schedule. A lot of programs get fixed, USE flags change, dependencies change, configuration options get updated. > Secondary: > How often should one update the system to minimize hassles with broken > packages? Me? I do most of my working systems daily - takes about 10 minutes for all 4 systems. Home systems - daily or weekly. Laptop monthly. Better to see a small problem show up than wait for it to be buried in a lot of updates and then have to find out which of 10 or 20 packages caused the issue. > Too often, and the hassle of constant upgrading can get tedious even > if it works ok, and too late, and some odd dysfunctional version > combinations start showing up that the packages were not really > tested for, leading to broken ebuilds. > Have you run other distributions where you get the massive binary updates 3 times per year? Have you had to fun of doing minor package updates in between the massive updates and then find that the massive update leaves your system completely borked because of conflicts with the minor updates? And I mean you don't see these until the system tries to reboot, and then it sometimes won't do that. > > > I did like this: > I didn't want to run a clean install or an --emptytree thingie. I > wanted to take it a few steps at a time, so that if something broke I > might have an idea about what new packages it was that broke it. > > 1) take a backup of the system. I have some modifications > in /etc/init.d scripts and some extra non-gentoo stuff for clustering > installed that I didn't want to risk, and I was pretty sure something > would bork and leave me clueless. lol > > 2) emerge sync. Nice, worked. > emerge *only the most important stuff* (oh, I'm really chicken btw): > portage, baselayout, etc. > That brought in some dependencies, but it worked out all right after a > while and a lot of figuring out the /etc/init.d and config file > changes that has happened for the last 1.5 years. And some other > changes as to where certain configs go, and how, and so on. But most > was easily searchable in docs or forums.gentoo or on this list. > Reboot here to see if it even booted any more... YEEAAAH! > > 3) emerge basic user packages like gcc, glibc, xorg (yes I was still > on xfree) kernel, etc. > note: I have to stay on 2.4 because I use openmosix for the > clustering, and I don't yet trust 2.6om. > For this I started using --update --deep since I did want an updated > system, but not all at once. > This still worked out all right, with just some minor headaches of > broken ebuilds. And some config files again. > hrmmpf kernel change means reboot. darned. > > 4) emerge --update --deep desktop stuff like KDE, openoffice, > browsers, etc... > This started generating Lots of broken packages. I have spent > many hours looking through the _VERY_NICE_ bugs.gentoo.org. I still > get bitten by bugs that are filed fixed in mid 2003. lol So here's something to chew on - you are running a cluster with a boat load of desktop apps. And desktop apps have tons of libs that are needed. Plus the desktop and their apps change a lot - there is a lot of churn in desktop apps. They are going to break more often. Waiting will just make the breakage worse and cause all the compiles to occur at one time, instead of being spread out. > Some more config file updates, and restarting all significant services > to use the new software. > > 5) Now, muahaha, emerge -
