RE: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions
David - Yes. Wonder if Obama will see the middle ground: approve Keystone XL contingent on an increasing carbon tax.Meanwhile it is easy to respond to Waxman-Whitehouse. 1. Check if you are a member of any of the listed organizations, odds are you are. The Congressmen asked for thoughts from members off Being a member gives you an excuse to send your answers.2. Draft a short letter with your suggested actions.3 Email the letter to listed contact people.Feel free to excerpt from my suggested actions, attached as MSWord. For your convenience the Congressional letter and distribution list are also attached.Mark E. Capron, PEOxnard, Californiawww.PODenergy.org Original Message Subject: Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions From: David Lewis jrandomwin...@gmail.com Date: Sat, February 02, 2013 11:42 am To: geoengineering@googlegroups.com On the Waxman-Whitehouse initiative, and Keystone XL:If the "movement" succeeds in persuading Obama he needs to spend some of his limited political capital by refusing to approve Keystone XL, there will be less political capital available to accomplish whatever comes of this Waxman-Whitehouse initiative. And the result of no Keystone XL crossing the border may only be the discovery by US activists that Canada can and will move its oil through its own territory to its own ports. The "movement" might accomplish more by changing its political line from "it's game over for the climate unless the US border is closed to tar sand oil" to something more coherent.Eg: the "movement" could modify its opposition to Keystone XL by saying it could accept the pipeline IF the permit required tar sand oil entering the US to meet some new EPA standard limiting the CO2 emitted while it was produced. That EPA standard could be for all oil imported into, or even all oil sold in the US. The limit, initially, could be something like "less than or equal to US average oil production", or "less than or equal to US unconventional oil production", or "less than or equal to average US imported oil" etc. A regulation subject to improvement as political will develops, if political will develops, could prove to be more effective than merely prohibiting Keystone XL. The Keystone XL effort as it stands, given Obama's fresh mandate and inaugural speech declaration on climate, seems too limited and ineffectual. The rhetoric circulating to support it is increasing climate confusion. The risk, that pressure to eliminate the EPA altogether could become to great to stop, seems much less now than prior to the election. Many in Canada have assumed something like this would be coming eventually and a certain amount of RD has already been done on how to reduce or compensate for the extra CO2 emitted as tar sand oil is produced. David Keith has an inside view on this. Canadians who are cynical about a US hammer coming down on their tar sand oil which exempts every other oil source in the world including US unconventionally produced oil will have to face a more understandable, fair, and politicallysalablebarrier. Canadians could choose to pioneer carbon capture technology to make their oil salable rather than build the new infrastructure they need to move their oil. The Obama administration would be presented with a better strategy to spend whatever political capital it thinks it has for climate on. On Friday, February 1, 2013 9:02:31 AM UTC-8, Greg Rau wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions
On the Waxman-Whitehouse initiative, and Keystone XL: If the movement succeeds in persuading Obama he needs to spend some of his limited political capital by refusing to approve Keystone XL, there will be less political capital available to accomplish whatever comes of this Waxman-Whitehouse initiative. And the result of no Keystone XL crossing the border may only be the discovery by US activists that Canada can and will move its oil through its own territory to its own ports. The movement might accomplish more by changing its political line from it's game over for the climate unless the US border is closed to tar sand oil to something more coherent. Eg: the movement could modify its opposition to Keystone XL by saying it could accept the pipeline IF the permit required tar sand oil entering the US to meet some new EPA standard limiting the CO2 emitted while it was produced. That EPA standard could be for all oil imported into, or even all oil sold in the US. The limit, initially, could be something like less than or equal to US average oil production, or less than or equal to US unconventional oil production, or less than or equal to average US imported oil etc. A regulation subject to improvement as political will develops, if political will develops, could prove to be more effective than merely prohibiting Keystone XL. The Keystone XL effort as it stands, given Obama's fresh mandate and inaugural speech declaration on climate, seems too limited and ineffectual. The rhetoric circulating to support it is increasing climate confusion. The risk, that pressure to eliminate the EPA altogether could become to great to stop, seems much less now than prior to the election. Many in Canada have assumed something like this would be coming eventually and a certain amount of RD has already been done on how to reduce or compensate for the extra CO2 emitted as tar sand oil is produced. David Keith has an inside view on this. Canadians who are cynical about a US hammer coming down on their tar sand oil which exempts every other oil source in the world including US unconventionally produced oil will have to face a more understandable, fair, and politically salable barrier. Canadians could choose to pioneer carbon capture technology to make their oil salable rather than build the new infrastructure they need to move their oil. The Obama administration would be presented with a better strategy to spend whatever political capital it thinks it has for climate on. On Friday, February 1, 2013 9:02:31 AM UTC-8, Greg Rau wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions
Thanks for the insight, Dave. So this is a post-Sandy, smoke'm out tactic to force the BAU folks to show their hand, and congress really isn't asking for solutions. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer - The Godfather Part II. So we can just sit back and let congress continue to perform its special magic; I'll toss that draft response I was working on. Other more productive actions we should be taking re CO2 under Obama 2.0? -Greg From: Hawkins, Dave dhawk...@nrdc.org To: gh...@sbcglobal.net gh...@sbcglobal.net Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com geoengineering@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, January 31, 2013 11:39:32 PM Subject: Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions Without presuming to speak for the authors, I can assure you they are well aware of the threats posed by ocean acidification. They are writing this letter not because the two of them have no clue about needs to be done but rather to promote a renewed discussion on what can be done under current law and where the law needs to be strengthened. Including known opponents of any action in the outreach makes sense, both to avoid claims of inappropriate exclusion as well as to make their responses or lack thereof available for public scrutiny. Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:07 PM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The US Congress (after all of the ideas submitted by scientists, NGOs, policy advisors, and a few brave congress persons, Waxman among them) openly admits that it still hasn't got a clue what to do, while reaching out for answers to some of the very entities who have actively sought to kill effective GHG policy and legislation (see below). Completely absent from the plea is any mention of ocean acidification. How this continues to elude the rationale for effective CO2 management further speaks to lawmakers' real or feigned disconnect from reality. Anyway, here's your chance to fill them in (again). Details and contacts in an info request letter here:. http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2-Waxman-Whitehouse-2013-1-31.pdf Comments due Feb 20. -Greg CLIMATE: Waxman, Whitehouse call for ideas to tackle warming Jason Plautz, EE reporter Published: Thursday, January 31, 2013 The leaders of a congressional task force on climate change have reached out to more than 300 businesses and organizations -- including the nation's largest oil and gas companies -- to ask for their input on how the federal government can reduce carbon dioxide pollution. Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) sent letters to various groups, ranging from environmental groups to labor organizations. The co-chairmen of the Bicameral Task Force on Climate Change said they are looking for advice on what each branch of the federal government can do to tackle climate change. That input will be shared with the White House as well as members of a climate change clearinghouse hosted by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and other legislators. Washington is gripped in a barricade of special interests on the urgent issue of climate change, said Whitehouse. That's why we want to break the Beltway barricade and ask a broad array of businesses, nonprofit organizations and academic institutions to share their ideas about actions the federal government can take. Climate change is already affecting all of us, and we want to get all ideas on the table to address it. The listhttp://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Businesses-Organizations-Receiving-Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2013-1-31.pdf of recipients includes the nation's largest oil, natural gas and coal companies; electric utilities; auto manufacturers; and defense contractors. The legislators also reached out to a range of environmental groups, universities and think tanks. A sample letterhttp://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2-Waxman-Whitehouse-2013-1-31.pdf showed that the task force is asking for a wide range of ideas that could include legislation, new regulation or actions by smaller federal agencies. Responses were requested by Feb. 20. Waxman and Whitehouse launched the task force last week in order to raise the profile of climate change and help advise the Obama administration on how to use its existing authority to address the issue (Greenwirehttp://www.eenews.net/Greenwire/2013/01/24/archive/5, Jan. 24). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit
RE: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions
Hi Greg, (for some reason I did not receive your reply to me; only seeing due to Fred Zimmerman's post). I hear your cynicism and share your frustration. A few points: To state the obvious, Congress is not a monolith. There are still some members in office who believe we need policy action to cut GHGs and they are continuing to look for ways to force a discussion of the issue. Waxman and Whitehouse are among those members and this letter is an attempt to provide grist for a discussion. I think it is worth the effort to provide them with thoughtful proposals for action. Note that the letter emphasizes what can be done by the executive branch using laws that Congress already has passed, since these members are aware of the difficulty of enacting anything rational related to GHG emissions in this Congress. For NRDC's part, a top priority Obama action using existing law would be to issue CO2 emission performance standards for existing fossil power plants. The current Clean Air Act authorizes EPA to do this. NRDC has developed a proposed approach for such standards, which is described here: http://www.nrdc.org/air/pollution-standards/ A lengthy report and a shorter issue brief are available at the above link for those who want to learn more. David From: Fred Zimmerman [mailto:w...@nimblebooks.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:54 PM To: gh...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Hawkins, Dave; geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions Or in Cole Porter's words, let's let Congress do that voodoo that it does so well. http://www2.uol.com.br/cante/lyrics/Cole_Porter_-_You_do_something_to_me.htm Tell me, why should it be you have the power to hypnotize me? Let me live 'neath your spell, Do do that voodoo that you do so well. For you do something to me that nobody else could do! On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:02 PM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thanks for the insight, Dave. So this is a post-Sandy, smoke'm out tactic to force the BAU folks to show their hand, and congress really isn't asking for solutions. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer - The Godfather Part II. So we can just sit back and let congress continue to perform its special magic; I'll toss that draft response I was working on. Other more productive actions we should be taking re CO2 under Obama 2.0? -Greg From: Hawkins, Dave dhawk...@nrdc.orgmailto:dhawk...@nrdc.org To: gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, January 31, 2013 11:39:32 PM Subject: Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions Without presuming to speak for the authors, I can assure you they are well aware of the threats posed by ocean acidification. They are writing this letter not because the two of them have no clue about needs to be done but rather to promote a renewed discussion on what can be done under current law and where the law needs to be strengthened. Including known opponents of any action in the outreach makes sense, both to avoid claims of inappropriate exclusion as well as to make their responses or lack thereof available for public scrutiny. Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:07 PM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The US Congress (after all of the ideas submitted by scientists, NGOs, policy advisors, and a few brave congress persons, Waxman among them) openly admits that it still hasn't got a clue what to do, while reaching out for answers to some of the very entities who have actively sought to kill effective GHG policy and legislation (see below). Completely absent from the plea is any mention of ocean acidification. How this continues to elude the rationale for effective CO2 management further speaks to lawmakers' real or feigned disconnect from reality. Anyway, here's your chance to fill them in (again). Details and contacts in an info request letter here:. http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2-Waxman-Whitehouse-2013-1-31.pdf Comments due Feb 20. -Greg CLIMATE: Waxman, Whitehouse call for ideas to tackle warming Jason Plautz, EE reporter Published: Thursday, January 31, 2013 The leaders of a congressional task force on climate change have reached out to more than 300 businesses and organizations -- including the nation's largest oil and gas companies -- to ask for their input on how the federal government can reduce carbon dioxide pollution. Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) sent letters to various groups, ranging from environmental groups to labor organizations. The co-chairmen of the Bicameral Task Force on Climate
Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions
Roger that. I, too, have been getting sporadic postings of my own and other's geo missives, so wonder if Andrew is filtering or if something more nefarious is going on. Anyway , hope we can keep the lines of communication open. Speaking of the Clean Air Act, what about the Clean Water Act? Doesn't this stipulate no more than a 0.2 anthro decrease in ocean pH (we're half way there, with coral and oyster effects already evident) and why can't this be used as CO2 policy/legal leverage? -Greg From: Hawkins, Dave Hawkins dhawk...@nrdc.orgmailto:dhawk...@nrdc.org Reply-To: Dave Hawkins dhawk...@nrdc.orgmailto:dhawk...@nrdc.org Date: Friday, February 1, 2013 10:24 AM To: f...@nimblebooks.commailto:f...@nimblebooks.com f...@nimblebooks.commailto:f...@nimblebooks.com, greg RAU gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net Cc: geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions Hi Greg, (for some reason I did not receive your reply to me; only seeing due to Fred Zimmerman’s post). I hear your cynicism and share your frustration. A few points: To state the obvious, Congress is not a monolith. There are still some members in office who believe we need policy action to cut GHGs and they are continuing to look for ways to force a discussion of the issue. Waxman and Whitehouse are among those members and this letter is an attempt to provide grist for a discussion. I think it is worth the effort to provide them with thoughtful proposals for action. Note that the letter emphasizes what can be done by the executive branch using laws that Congress already has passed, since these members are aware of the difficulty of enacting anything rational related to GHG emissions in this Congress. For NRDC’s part, a top priority Obama action using existing law would be to issue CO2 emission performance standards for existing fossil power plants. The current Clean Air Act authorizes EPA to do this. NRDC has developed a proposed approach for such standards, which is described here: http://www.nrdc.org/air/pollution-standards/ A lengthy report and a shorter issue brief are available at the above link for those who want to learn more. David From: Fred Zimmerman [mailto:w...@nimblebooks.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:54 PM To: gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net Cc: Hawkins, Dave; geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions Or in Cole Porter's words, let's let Congress do that voodoo that it does so well. http://www2.uol.com.br/cante/lyrics/Cole_Porter_-_You_do_something_to_me.htm Tell me, why should it be you have the power to hypnotize me? Let me live 'neath your spell, Do do that voodoo that you do so well. For you do something to me that nobody else could do! On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 12:02 PM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thanks for the insight, Dave. So this is a post-Sandy, smoke'm out tactic to force the BAU folks to show their hand, and congress really isn't asking for solutions. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer - The Godfather Part II. So we can just sit back and let congress continue to perform its special magic; I'll toss that draft response I was working on. Other more productive actions we should be taking re CO2 under Obama 2.0? -Greg From: Hawkins, Dave dhawk...@nrdc.orgmailto:dhawk...@nrdc.org To: gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, January 31, 2013 11:39:32 PM Subject: Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions Without presuming to speak for the authors, I can assure you they are well aware of the threats posed by ocean acidification. They are writing this letter not because the two of them have no clue about needs to be done but rather to promote a renewed discussion on what can be done under current law and where the law needs to be strengthened. Including known opponents of any action in the outreach makes sense, both to avoid claims of inappropriate exclusion as well as to make their responses or lack thereof available for public scrutiny. Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:07 PM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The US Congress (after all of the ideas submitted by scientists, NGOs, policy advisors, and a few brave congress persons, Waxman among them) openly admits that it still hasn't got a clue what to do, while reaching out for answers to some of the very entities who have actively sought to kill effective GHG policy and legislation (see below). Completely absent from the plea is any mention of ocean
Re: [geo] Congress seeks GHG solutions
Without presuming to speak for the authors, I can assure you they are well aware of the threats posed by ocean acidification. They are writing this letter not because the two of them have no clue about needs to be done but rather to promote a renewed discussion on what can be done under current law and where the law needs to be strengthened. Including known opponents of any action in the outreach makes sense, both to avoid claims of inappropriate exclusion as well as to make their responses or lack thereof available for public scrutiny. Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:07 PM, RAU greg gh...@sbcglobal.netmailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The US Congress (after all of the ideas submitted by scientists, NGOs, policy advisors, and a few brave congress persons, Waxman among them) openly admits that it still hasn't got a clue what to do, while reaching out for answers to some of the very entities who have actively sought to kill effective GHG policy and legislation (see below). Completely absent from the plea is any mention of ocean acidification. How this continues to elude the rationale for effective CO2 management further speaks to lawmakers' real or feigned disconnect from reality. Anyway, here's your chance to fill them in (again). Details and contacts in an info request letter here:. http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2-Waxman-Whitehouse-2013-1-31.pdf Comments due Feb 20. -Greg CLIMATE: Waxman, Whitehouse call for ideas to tackle warming Jason Plautz, EE reporter Published: Thursday, January 31, 2013 The leaders of a congressional task force on climate change have reached out to more than 300 businesses and organizations -- including the nation's largest oil and gas companies -- to ask for their input on how the federal government can reduce carbon dioxide pollution. Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) sent letters to various groups, ranging from environmental groups to labor organizations. The co-chairmen of the Bicameral Task Force on Climate Change said they are looking for advice on what each branch of the federal government can do to tackle climate change. That input will be shared with the White House as well as members of a climate change clearinghouse hosted by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) and other legislators. Washington is gripped in a barricade of special interests on the urgent issue of climate change, said Whitehouse. That's why we want to break the Beltway barricade and ask a broad array of businesses, nonprofit organizations and academic institutions to share their ideas about actions the federal government can take. Climate change is already affecting all of us, and we want to get all ideas on the table to address it. The listhttp://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Businesses-Organizations-Receiving-Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2013-1-31.pdf of recipients includes the nation's largest oil, natural gas and coal companies; electric utilities; auto manufacturers; and defense contractors. The legislators also reached out to a range of environmental groups, universities and think tanks. A sample letterhttp://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2-Waxman-Whitehouse-2013-1-31.pdf showed that the task force is asking for a wide range of ideas that could include legislation, new regulation or actions by smaller federal agencies. Responses were requested by Feb. 20. Waxman and Whitehouse launched the task force last week in order to raise the profile of climate change and help advise the Obama administration on how to use its existing authority to address the issue (Greenwirehttp://www.eenews.net/Greenwire/2013/01/24/archive/5, Jan. 24). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.commailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Bicameral-Task-Force-Letter-2-Waxman-Whitehouse-2013-1-31.pdf -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups geoengineering group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
