[geo] RE: [CDR] World Cooling Map

[Peter Flynn]

Robert et al.



At the risk of cross posting, an email I sent today in response to Ron
Larson is below, in case this is of help.



Peter







Ron et al.,



Some comments on ice:



1. Important to realize that making ice from both fresh and sea water are
well proven “ancient” technologies. It is a standard practice in the north
to make an ice road by pumping water onto the surface of the ice,
thickening the ice. The supply road to Leningrad over Lake Ladoga is a
historical example, but there are places in Canada where this is done
annually to allow truck access part of the year to remote communities. Sea
water was used to make thick ice islands for drilling platforms in the
Beaufort Sea in the 70’s. It works.



2. Why pump the water to the surface? To get around the self insulating
feature of natural ice formation. The “cold” is in the winter atmosphere.
Natural ice forms at the bottom of the ice sheet, ice is an insulator,
moreso as it thickens.



3. Spray vs. low lift: for rapid ice formation, spray into the air to get a
higher overall rate of heat transfer. Ski hills do this for two reasons:
quicker, and one forms small ice particles that are like snow, not ice
sheets. But spray is energy intensive, and low lift (just get the liquid
water on the surface) moves far more water, and is perfectly ok on a cold
night, as evidenced by the ample history of ice road construction. If one
wanted to start an ice sheet in open ocean: spray. But wherever there is a
sufficient existing ice sheet, switch to low lift.



4. Ron, a minor correction. The goal would be two fold: both create new
ice, perhaps annual, but also strive to get incremental multi year ice, 2+
meters. If albedo is the primary goal (I think it should be), then
restoring multi year ice is the goal.



5. In the overall picture, making incremental sea ice transfers heat from
the ocean to the atmosphere. The expectation is that the heat is
incrementally radiated into space.



6. There is a curiosity question: what happens to the salt. When natural
ice forms at the bottom of the sheet, the formed ice is low in salt and a
brine sinks from the bottom of the sheet. There is a question if ice is
formed on the surface: does a brine migrate through microchannels in the
ice, or stay trapped in the ice. It is important to say: so what, make ice
anyway. But I have thought of a simple experiment to test this, attached
(I’m retired and don’t have the lab to do this, but for those in the
“publish or perish” world, this is an easy project and relevant paper).



7. In a 2005 paper we did costs estimates of a barge fleet to make ice, the
reference is in the Word document attached. If anyone is interested I’ll
send the paper.



8. A personal opinion: start simple. There are many tweaks people look at,
channels, breaking up ice to create new areas of freezing, anchoring ice
blocks. All good as build ons, but there is no reason not to get started on
the first effort: either make incremental new ice (spray), or thicken
existing ice (low lift), or best of all: both.



Peter



Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D.

Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers

Department of Mechanical Engineering

University of Alberta

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

1 928 451 4455

peter.fl...@ualberta.ca





*From:* 'Robert Tulip' via Carbon Dioxide Removal <
carbondioxideremo...@googlegroups.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, November 21, 2021 4:58 AM
*To:* 'Anderson, Paul' ; 'Ronal Larson' <
rongretlar...@comcast.net>; rob...@rtulip.net; 'John Nissen' <
johnnissen2...@gmail.com>
*Cc:* 'Arctic Methane Google Group' ;
'Healthy Climate Alliance' ;
'Planetary Restoration' ; 'via
geoengineering' ; 'Carbon Dioxide Removal'
; 'Biochar.groups.io' <
m...@biochar.groups.io>
*Subject:* RE: [CDR] World Cooling Map



This reply to all the threads copies replies which only went to the CDR
thread.  The discussion relates to both CDR using algae farms and albedo
increase by polar freezing.



*CDR using Algae Farms*

Hi Ronal and Paul, thanks so much for these considered expert comments.  In
his first reply, Paul put the algae discussion into the biochar context,
saying “My 20 years of work in retirement have been about pyrolysis for
energy and biochar.   I assure you that the intended large-scale
ocean-based algae farms floating on the main ocean currents is quite
compatible with biochar production.”



The mention of pyrolysis prompts me to explain my view of how oceanic algae
can be processed.  Hydrothermal liquefaction (HTL) can transform a wet
algae slurry into a hydrocarbon stream and an aqueous fertilizer stream.
Therefore, feeding algae with Deep Ocean Water high in nitrates and
phosphates can constantly recycle new nutrients into the algae farm via the
aqueous HTL stream, while carbon is drawn from both air and sea for
hydrocarbon production.



Pyrolysis to produce biochar operates at different temperature and pressure
from HTL. A range of conditions should be tested.  My view is the 

[geo] RE: [CDR] World Cooling Map

['Robert Tulip' via geoengineering]

This reply to all the threads copies replies which only went to the CDR thread. 
 The discussion relates to both CDR using algae farms and albedo increase by 
polar freezing.  

 

CDR using Algae Farms

Hi Ronal and Paul, thanks so much for these considered expert comments.  In his 
first reply, Paul put the algae discussion into the biochar context, saying “My 
20 years of work in retirement have been about pyrolysis for energy and 
biochar.   I assure you that the intended large-scale ocean-based algae farms 
floating on the main ocean currents is quite compatible with biochar 
production.”

 

The mention of pyrolysis prompts me to explain my view of how oceanic algae can 
be processed.  Hydrothermal liquefaction (HTL) can transform a wet algae slurry 
into a hydrocarbon stream and an aqueous fertilizer stream.  Therefore, feeding 
algae with Deep Ocean Water high in nitrates and phosphates can constantly 
recycle new nutrients into the algae farm via the aqueous HTL stream, while 
carbon is drawn from both air and sea for hydrocarbon production.  

 

Pyrolysis to produce biochar operates at different temperature and pressure 
from HTL. A range of conditions should be tested.  My view is the scale of 
ocean carbon production required for planetary stability will eventually 
justify using the Mid Atlantic Ridge as an HTL production zone, using the 2km 
water depth and geothermal heat in the tectonic plate production area of the 
ridge to enable hydrocarbon and fertilizer production without use of fossil 
energy.

 

Ocean-based pyrolysis of biochar could partially dewater algae by mixing air 
through a heated algae slurry and then using ocean depth for pressure. 
Pyrolysis under moderate pressure (0.5–3.0 MPa or depth of 50-300m)  
 seems to 
increase the charcoal yield due to the longer vapour residence time within the 
solid particle.

 

Biochar thickens and improves soil.  Covering much of the earth with a new 
layer of soil made of pyrolised algae would be highly protective for biosystems 
and an excellent carbon sink. I see algae biochar as preferably funded by 
commercial investment, with subsidy from public funds calculated by long term 
verifiable GHG removal measured by the cut to Radiative Forcing. 

 

Ocean gyres and currents have major cooling potential.  Scale up of algae 
production at sea requires agreed ocean locations for stationary algae farms in 
gyres and routes for moving farms along currents, in coordination with shipping 
and fishing interests. 

 

Algae farms will support integrated multi trophic aquaculture and biomass 
production that will substantially increase fisheries biomass, enabling 
industry expansion for food security while enhancing biodiversity.  

 

The area required to match the carbon content of total GHG emissions would to 
my understanding require algae coverage between 1% and 10% of the world ocean 
area (3-30 million km2) depending on the industrial intensity, which could 
range from low intensity kelp arrays through to high intensity enclosed fabric 
photobioreactors. 

 

I did calculations years ago to derive the preliminary estimate that covering 
1% of the world ocean (3 million km2) with algae farms would remove 50 Gt CO2 
per year, with optimal algae yields. Converting that biomass into stable sinks 
would then require further processing such as for biochar or fabric, or it 
could be re-emitted via HTL fuel and fertilizer manufacture.  Other major 
products include animal feed, fisheries, food and forestry. 

 

It may be possible to use tidal pumps on the edge of continental shelves to 
pump deep ocean water to the surface as algae feedstock, and then float algae 
farms from the initial location to an ocean gyre to grow until the algae crop 
is at maximum density, where it can be continuously harvested with further 
fertilizer inputs from Deep Ocean Water and CO2. 

 

I think the southern coast of Australia will be too rough and cold for large 
scale algae production, although there may be suitable sites.  Ocean gyres and 
sheltered tropical waters such as north of Australia in the Arafura Sea look 
better. Using ocean currents as a biomass transport route, for example from 
Northern Australia around Africa to the Caribbean, could grow ocean algae 
species in saltwater in fabric enclosures. This builds upon NASA’s Ocean 
Membrane Enclosures for Growing Algae research from a decade ago.  Farms 
launched near Darwin can fill with Deep Ocean Water from the Timor Trench 
before floating into the Indian Ocean.

 

Albedo increase by polar freezing 

Arctic ice canal construction could use ice with added weight (eg gravel) and 
structural materials so it naturally floats below the draft of the deepest 
ship.  The main shipping canal could be built straight across the North Pole 
from the Bering Strait to near Greenland under the floating sea ice in winter, 
using the winter cold to 

[geo] Re: [CDR] World Cooling Map

[Ronal Larson]

Robert and Paul, John  and 6 ccs. (note that Paul added “biochar.io”, but did 
not otherwise use that word.  I am mainly responding for biochar reasons)

RWL1.  I write because I agree with Paul on all 3 of Robert’s 3 ideas below.  
Paul said;
"others can embrace the visions (plural) of how to save our planet. “ 

see other inserts below in both Paul’s and Robert’s messages today

> On Nov 19, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Anderson, Paul  wrote:
> 
> Robert,
>  
> AWESOME!!!   
> Each of the 3 possible cooling interventions has merit for separate 
> discussions.   
>  
> Please keep  me included in any discussion / work regarding the focus on
>Large scale ocean-based algae farms floating on the main ocean currents
>  
> I am a retired geography professor.   I offer the following contribution:
>  
> A.  The green dot indicating an Algae farm in the North Atlantic Ocean is 
> either too far north or a second dot is needed in the Sargasso Sea.   That is 
> the area in the center of the circulation of the North Atlantic Ocean.   Also 
> referred to as the Doldrums because of LACK of winds and very little current 
> to  drive the old sailing ships.It is also referred to for its position 
> as a subtropical high.
>  
> It is the center of the very stable high pressure zone over the North 
> Atlantic at around 30 degrees north latitude, the zone of subtropical highs.  
>  The main air flow is from the upper atmosphere downward with clockwise 
> rotation (which drives the winds and therefore the ocean currents around the 
> edges of the high pressure zone.   High pressure also coincides with 
> (actually causes) cloudless sky, meaning more incoming solar radiation.
> That helps grow the macro-algae (the Sargassum seaweed)
>  
> I highly recommend this summary at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargasso_Sea 
>   
> NOTE:  Yes, it is Wikipedia, which I think is a very useful resource for 
> basic information, and I encourage you to join me in annual donations to 
> assure its continuation.
>  
[RWL2:  A few questions for sargassum experts:  

1.  Is the vast majority of sargassum growth on the southern 
part of its journey from Africa to the Caribbean?  
2.  Any need to contain the moving patches of sargassum?  (much 
cheaper to not do so, presumably)
3.  Can harvesting take place only in the Caribbean?
4.  How valuable would conversion to biochar be to the local 
region?  (and might “tourism” funds from those countries be available to 
support this concept?
5.  Are the other gyres all fairly similar?
6.  Any estimates of annual dry tonnage - globally?
7.  Which parts of the ocean seem best for harvesting as input 
to biochar?  (I’ve heard good things about the southern coast of Australia.)

Agree with Paul’s part B - can jump to RWL3 in Robert’s message.

> `
>  
>  
> B.  My 20 years of work in retirement have been about pyrolysis for energy 
> and  biochar.   I assure you that the intended
>Large scale ocean-based algae farms floating on the main ocean currents
> is quite compatible with biochar production, but that is for later messages.
>  
> I would alter that descriptor to read as:  Large scale ocean-based 
> algae farms floating on the oceans.   The reference to the currents is too 
> limiting. There are similar oceanic areas in the central zones of all of 
> the  oceans at about 30 degrees north and also south latitudes.   Taken 
> together, if they are (estimated to be) 10% of the world’s oceans, that would 
> be 7% of the surface of the planet, and located in the “best” zones for 
> favourable sunshine and  plenty of water (if desalinated).   Note that the 
> TOTAL land mass is only 30% of the surface of the planet, including rugged 
> mountains and very dry deserts.
>  
> Not totally in jest, I will say that the development of the oceanic surfaces 
> in the areas of the subtropical highs could become the needed “Planet B” 
> where life on Earth (or at least major activities) could find some partial 
> salvation as we destroy our lives and livelihood on land.
>  
> Robert, I am on board with you for this  topic.   I hope that others can 
> embrace the visions (plural) of how to save our planet.  
>  
> Paul
>  
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD --- Website:   www.drtlud.com 
> 
>  Email:  psand...@ilstu.edu    Skype:  
>  paultlud
>  Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072Mobile & WhatsApp: 309-531-4434
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFPGo to: www.JuntosNFP.org 
>   
> Inventor of RoCC kilns and author of Biochar white paper :  See  
> www.woodgas.energy/resources   
> Author of “A Capitalist Carol” (free digital copies at www.capitalism21.org 
>